Why I am a fan of Cleveland Sports?

[NDgradstudent]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">.<a href="https://twitter.com/twitter">@twitter</a> We might need some help with this whole "20-character limit for names" thing.<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/WWWWWWWWWWWWindians?src=hash">#WWWWWWWWWWWWindians</a></p>— #WWWWWWWWWWWWindians (@Indians) <a href="https://twitter.com/Indians/status/748341092244951040">June 30, 2016</a></blockquote>
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Since the start of Game 5 of the Finals everything's coming up Cleveland.

 

[Booslum31]

The Indians are on Fire! It's been fun to watch. Winning begets winning.

 

[ulukinatme]

I often think there's some truth to the saying that championships can do lots of good things for a city. Maybe the Indians have caught the winning bug, and that would be a cool thing. Kinda funny that the Cavs kind of used that playoff model from "Major League" in their run to the championship....just without the naked woman

 

[Irish#1]

This says otherwise:

Hard to lead in every category if you don't know where anyone is on the court. Not saying James is far superior, he's just certainly not inferior in comparison.

I was speaking of court awareness and you're comparing a series to careers. James has been questioned many times on his play. The GS series he finally showed what he is capable of. No one ever said that about MJ, MJ or LB. Bird and Magic in particular have no equals when it comes to court awareness.

 

[kmoose]

This says otherwise:

Hard to lead in every category if you don't know where anyone is on the court. Not saying James is far superior, he's just certainly not inferior in comparison.

I'm pretty sure these stats are only taking into account the players from Cleveland and Golden State. I don't think he leads all of those categories, all time. Note the footnote at the bottom that states, "Among players on both teams".

 

[ulukinatme]

I was speaking of court awareness and you're comparing a series to careers. James has been questioned many times on his play. The GS series he finally showed what he is capable of. No one ever said that about MJ, MJ or LB. Bird and Magic in particular have no equals when it comes to court awareness.

Ok, but in the playoffs LeBron was still 5th in scoring (2nd in total points), 7th in rebounds per game (2nd in total rebounds), 3rd in assists (2nd most overall), 5th in steals per game (had the most steals overall), and 16th in blocks (5th total). Obviously he didn't just show up in the Finals, he just showed up big time there. I realize I'm still talking about this year, but it's not like this is the first time he's put up good numbers in a playoff and been MVP. He has the same number of Finals MVP trophies as Magic, and one more than Bird I believe. I'm not saying he's as good or better than either guy, but I'd say he's closer to them than you say. He would likely have more rings like those guys if he wasn't carrying Cleveland so much earlier in his career. Certainly Bird and Magic have few equals when it comes to court awareness, but to say they're far superior to LeBron is silly. You don't excel in all these statistics as James has if you don't "know where all nine players were at all times and were two steps ahead of everyone" as you put it.

 

[Booslum31]

Ok, but in the playoffs LeBron was still 5th in scoring (2nd in total points), 7th in rebounds per game (2nd in total rebounds), 3rd in assists (2nd most overall), 5th in steals per game (had the most steals overall), and 16th in blocks (5th total). Obviously he didn't just show up in the Finals, he just showed up big time there. I realize I'm still talking about this year, but it's not like this is the first time he's put up good numbers in a playoff and been MVP. He has the same number of Finals MVP trophies as Magic, and one more than Bird I believe. I'm not saying he's as good or better than either guy, but I'd say he's closer to them than you say. He would likely have more rings like those guys if he wasn't carrying Cleveland so much earlier in his career. Certainly Bird and Magic have few equals when it comes to court awareness, but to say they're far superior to LeBron is silly. You don't excel in all these statistics as James has if you don't "know where all nine players were at all times and were two steps ahead of everyone" as you put it.

Do you think if Kevin Love and Kyrie had played two years ago that the CAVS would have won that one too? They did win two of the games without them. Had to laugh...the second highest scorer on the CAVS in that series was Mosgov...he had (15) a game.

 

[Rocket89]

It can be argued either way, but there is one category where Bird, Magic and Jordan were far superior to James and that's court awareness and savvy. They knew where all nine players were at all times and were two steps ahead of everyone.

Can we get some clarification on what you mean by court awareness and savvy?

LeBron is a 6'8" small forward averaging 6.9 assists per game with a trash supporting cast for about three quarters of his NBA career. He's one of the best non-guard passers in history and I'd argue the best since Bird. And even Bird, with a much better team around him, averaged 6.3 assists.

James' court awareness is off the charts amazing. The whole savvy angle could mean a million different things, but in general I really don't understand your comment.

 

[ulukinatme]

Do you think if Kevin Love and Kyrie had played two years ago that the CAVS would have won that one too? They did win two of the games without them. Had to laugh...the second highest scorer on the CAVS in that series was Mosgov...he had (15) a game.

That last Finals was awful to watch. Being down Kyrie and Love they had to find anyone to step up and help on the floor. Mozgov is a good example, Delly stepping up in game 3 was crazy. Those are mostly bench players though, both originally undrafted, and they spend most the season spelling starters. It reminded me a lot of our injured team the last few years. Can't ask for multiple bench guys to put together an entire Finals masterpiece against a healthy team like the Warriors, much like you can't expect our guys to beat a healthy OSU team in a bowl. I'm not saying the Cavs would have won, the Warriors were hungry and amazing, but I think it would have been a closer playoff if Love and Kyrie weren't injured.

 

[BobbyMac]

Can we get some clarification on what you mean by court awareness and savvy?

LeBron is a 6'8" small forward averaging 6.9 assists per game with a trash supporting cast for about three quarters of his NBA career. He's one of the best non-guard passers in history and I'd argue the best since Bird. And even Bird, with a much better team around him, averaged 6.3 assists.

James' court awareness is off the charts amazing. The whole savvy angle could mean a million different things, but in general I really don't understand your comment.

You make a great point which is destroyed by the bolded.

 

[Irish Insanity]

Do you think if Kevin Love and Kyrie had played two years ago that the CAVS would have won that one too? They did win two of the games without them. Had to laugh...the second highest scorer on the CAVS in that series was Mosgov...he had (15) a game.

I approve this message.

So many people seem afraid to acknowledge how great LeBron is. Acknowledging his greatness doesn't diminish the greats before him.

 

[ulukinatme]

Can we get some clarification on what you mean by court awareness and savvy?

LeBron is a 6'8" small forward averaging 6.9 assists per game with a trash supporting cast for about three quarters of his NBA career. He's one of the best non-guard passers in history and I'd argue the best since Bird. And even Bird, with a much better team around him, averaged 6.3 assists.

James' court awareness is off the charts amazing. The whole savvy angle could mean a million different things, but in general I really don't understand your comment.

You make a great point which is destroyed by the bolded.

Is he wrong? Maybe trash is too strong of a word, but LeBron's early Cavs teams certainly weren't a "Who's who" of NBA greats. It's been a number of years, but looking back through those rosters from a decade ago I think you'd struggle to find major players that ever won a ring or contributed to other championship teams. One of the few positions they were strong at was Center, Varejao and Big Z were mainstains that played pretty well, Big Z being a 2 time All Star. Outside of those guys? Pickings are slim.

A young Danny Green got his start in Cleveland, but was just a bench player for those few years. He later won a ring with the Spurs and became a starter.
Mo Williams was a starter during LeBron's first era with Cleveland and was somewhat decent a few years, although he's also on the current team that won the championship so that's moot.
Ben Wallace played a few years in Cleveland, but he was hardly the Ben Wallace that was pulling down 15 RPG in Detroit earlier in his career.
The same can be said for Shaq, who was just a year or two from retirement when he joined the Cavs.

Looking through these rosters, I'm struggling to find other players that won rings with other teams or were major players in other ways.

 

[Rocket89]

Is he wrong? Maybe trash is too strong of a word, but LeBron's early Cavs teams certainly weren't a "Who's who" of NBA greats. It's been a number of years, but looking back through those rosters from a decade ago I think you'd struggle to find major players that ever won a ring or contributed to other championship teams. One of the few positions they were strong at was Center, Varejao and Big Z were mainstains that played pretty well, Big Z being a 2 time All Star. Outside of those guys? Pickings are slim.

A young Danny Green got his start in Cleveland, but was just a bench player for those few years. He later won a ring with the Spurs and became a starter.
Mo Williams was a starter during LeBron's first era with Cleveland and was somewhat decent a few years, although he's also on the current team that won the championship so that's moot.
Ben Wallace played a few years in Cleveland, but he was hardly the Ben Wallace that was pulling down 15 RPG in Detroit earlier in his career.
The same can be said for Shaq, who was just a year or two from retirement when he joined the Cavs.

Looking through these rosters, I'm struggling to find other players that won rings with other teams or were major players in other ways.

Yup, I'd love for someone to put together the top 3 players from Lebron's first 7 years in Cleveland. That the 2006-07 team even made the Finals might still be James' best work.

He's played 4 seasons with one Hall of Famer (Wade) and Bosh will be a borderline vote. Last two seasons with mostly role players plus Love/Kyrie both who missed the Finals last year.

Edit: forgot about Ray Ray. Was he with the Heat all 4 years??

 

[GoldenDome]

I think the Shaq and Jamison contracts pretty much pushed Lebron out of Cleveland. Those were terrible deals which ate up a large portion of the salary cap.

The latter years of Shaq's career was shit defense in a small man's league where he simply was ineffective in pick n roll defense. Teams abused the Cavs for having him out their. Then on offense, he significantly slowed the pace of the game down.

Jamison was also on a huge decline, and the amount of money the Cavs threw at Jamison was ridiculous given his age.

 

[BobbyMac]

Is he wrong?

Yes. 3/4 of 13 is 3.25. He was in Miami for 4. So every Cav's team was garbage?

If you want to argue about how the rosters of 66 and 60 something win teams in '09 & '10 were garbage, I'll be up for that too.

 

[GATTACA!]

I think the Shaq and Jamison contracts pretty much pushed Lebron out of Cleveland. Those were terrible deals which ate up a large portion of the salary cap.

The latter years of Shaq's career was shit defense in a small man's league where he simply was ineffective in pick n roll defense. Teams abused the Cavs for having him out their. Then on offense, he significantly slowed the pace of the game down.

Jamison was also on a huge decline, and the amount of money the Cavs threw at Jamison was ridiculous given his age.

Larry Hughes as well.

 

[Rocket89]

Yes. 3/4 of 13 is 3.25. He was in Miami for 4. So every Cav's team was garbage?

If you want to argue about how the rosters of 66 and 60 something win teams in '09 & '10 were garbage, I'll be up for that too.

I said "about" three quarters of his career. You're just nitpicking. But let's look at those Cavs teams leaders in minutes:

2006-07
James
Hughes
Gooden
Ilgauskas
Varejao

2007-08
James
Mo Williams
Varejao
West
D. Gibson

2008-09
James
Mo Williams
A. Parker
Varejao
Hickson

2009-10
James
Mo Williams
A. Parker
Varejao
Hickson

That is complete trash compared to:

82-83 Celtics
Bird
Parish (Hall of Fame)
McHale (Hall of Fame)
Cedric Maxwell
Danny Ainge

With Dennis Johnson coming the following year. How is this controversial? There are people who think LeBron had even a good supporting cast back then?

 

[BobbyMac]

I said "about" three quarters of his career. You're just nitpicking. But let's look at those Cavs teams leaders in minutes:

2006-07
James
Hughes
Gooden
Ilgauskas
Varejao

2007-08
James
Mo Williams
Varejao
West
D. Gibson

2008-09
James
Mo Williams
A. Parker
Varejao
Hickson

2009-10
James
Mo Williams
A. Parker
Varejao
Hickson

That is complete trash compared to:

82-83 Celtics
Bird
Parish (Hall of Fame)
McHale (Hall of Fame)
Cedric Maxwell
Danny Ainge

With Dennis Johnson coming the following year. How is this controversial? There are people who think LeBron had even a good supporting cast back then?

Your math, not mine. 8 of the 13 seasons he's been in the league he's had very good to great rosters, especially when compared to a MUCH weaker league.

The Celtics team you mentioned couldn't even win their division and McHale was still a bench player.

 

[Rocket89]

Your math, not mine. 8 of the 13 seasons he's been in the league he's had very good to great rosters, especially when compared to a MUCH weaker league.

The Celtics team you mentioned couldn't even win their division and McHale was still a bench player.

What, no "actully guys Mo Williams as your team's second leading scorer isn't that bad of a set up?" Well I'm disappointed. Here I thought you were going to defend the pre-Heat LeBron rosters.

 

[ulukinatme]

Yes. 3/4 of 13 is 3.25. He was in Miami for 4. So every Cav's team was garbage?

If you want to argue about how the rosters of 66 and 60 something win teams in '09 & '10 were garbage, I'll be up for that too.

Rocket already responded, and I agree that you're splitting hairs at this point. Certainly not exactly 3/4 of LeBron's career was spent with a weak supporting cast, but the Cavs teams were by no means great before LeBron's 1st move. That's several years of his career right there, a rather large chunk. The Cavs went from a playoff contender to the worst team in the league when James went to Miami, and they effectively remained that way until his return. I get the feeling you haven't watched much Cavs basketball, otherwise you'd feel differently about those '09 and '10 teams. Tell us who you think were big talents/playmakers in their prime on those teams. They were largely filled with players that were past their best basketball days, or rookies like Green that weren't ready, or players you've never heard of. If Cleveland had a "Big 3" during that period it was LeBron, Mo Williams (Who only regressed after '08 and struggled in the playoffs), and whoever was out there at Center. The fact the Cavs were even in the playoffs some of those years was a testament to LeBron willing them to win and taking over games.

 

[GoldenDome]

Larry Hughes as well.

Did the Donyell (sp?) Marshall guy break the 3 pt record at the time? Man he was a terrible defender.

 

[NDgradstudent]

Indians need a lefty reliever and another bat for the lineup. The bullpen is a borderline disaster at this point, and the offense is very on-and-off. Miller and Beltran from the Yankees would be solid...

 

[NDgradstudent]

Indians fans upset about making moves...lol. I guess when you have been unloading guys for years, you're shocked when you get big names. #Windians?

 

[Booslum31]

Indians fans upset about making moves...lol. I guess when you have been unloading guys for years, you're shocked when you get big names. #Windians?

You nailed it...this is unchartered territory. Would love to see them hold on and make the post-season.

 

[Legacy]

Indians next?

 

[Legacy]

Deleted

 

[NDgradstudent]

Naquin is PUMPED!

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Stop what you're doing.<br><br>Hammy.<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/RallyTogether?src=hash">#RallyTogether</a><a href="https://t.co/tnhu59b7Fy">https://t.co/tnhu59b7Fy</a></p>— Cleveland Indians (@Indians) <a href="https://twitter.com/Indians/status/766819833505644544">August 20, 2016</a></blockquote>
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And it's always nice to get a shoutout from the King...#windians #rolltribe

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Unbelievable finish for the <a href="https://twitter.com/Indians">@Indians</a>!! WOW. wonderful atmosphere in there tonight. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Windians?src=hash">#Windians</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/StriveForGreatness?src=hash">#StriveForGreatness</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/TheyreNext?src=hash">#TheyreNext</a></p>— LeBron James (@KingJames) <a href="https://twitter.com/KingJames/status/766814757500416000">August 20, 2016</a></blockquote>
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[NDgradstudent]

Serious October baseball for the Windians!

P.S. Smart Boston fans should head out to the Mistake by the Lake for the two ALDS games...plus the return of Brady vs. the Brownies...tickets + travel expenses will be much less than the cost of tickets alone in Boston.

 

[ACamp1900]

Go Tribe!!

 

[GATTACA!]

GO TRIBE!