'17 TN OT Trey Smith (Tennessee Verbal)

[BobbyMac]

I come out on both sides of this. I think at this time Trey Smith is probably one of the best OL in the country. He does have pretty rare athleticism and footwork that few Junior OL have. However, I also see where Crusader is coming from, where he lacks ideal height/length for the position. With that said, ZMart did as well, and we all see how that turned out. He was extremely successful in college and wasn't asked to change until the pros. Either way, he is easily one of the best 4-5 OL we could ask for in this class.

Agree 100% about Smith.

In regards to Martin... He picked the right school at the right time to get the extensive playing time and lack of competition that enabled him to develop at the positions he did. I would bet against him being able to pull off the same career in the today's depth chart.

 

[Irishman77]

Regardless of how tall Smith is, P-Money is going to make a killer right guard since his right arm is at least 6 inches longer than his left, and his right hand is probably twice as big as his left!

Same goes Kramer on the left side.

LOL reps...

 

[Irish#1]

That's bold.

Bars would probably have to leave after 4 years and then all he has to do is beat out both Kraemer and Eichenberg and hope Lugg is just the RT of the future and not the next McG and lets not forget that it's ND vs Stanford for Foster Sarell. Lot of and's in there. The safe bet is we're done with the 3 year starting LT at ND until HH retires but if he could pull it off, you're right... he's a #1 overall kinda player.

Irish Man3 is Koon 2.0! Reminds me of Koon is his early posts.

 

[IrishinTN]

Since most of this talk is over my head to the degree of football critique you guys can do, for reference I went to an NFL team that usually has a great offensive line and I checked the Patriots. Of their 9 guys listed as OL or g, only 2 are taller than 6'4. Both their tackles are 6'8 however.

 

[koonja]

Irish Man3 is Koon .5! Reminds me of a lesser Koon is his early posts.

Fify.

 

[Irish Man3]

That's bold.

Bars would probably have to leave after 4 years and then all he has to do is beat out both Kraemer and Eichenberg and hope Lugg is just the RT of the future and not the next McG and lets not forget that it's ND vs Stanford for Foster Sarell. Lot of and's in there. The safe bet is we're done with the 3 year starting LT at ND until HH retires but if he could pull it off, you're right... he's a #1 overall kinda player.

I was speaking in general form, not necessarily for ND. What I was trying to say is that Trey has the talent to start for a team from day one if the depth chart allows that and play three years and go pro. If he sits a year and develops more physically behind some experience, it'll be extremely tough to keep him buried on the depth chart after that. I think that holds true even at ND.

After this year, you'll have Bars and Eichenberg as your tackles, I believe. Bars will only have one year left at that point.

Kramer is a guard IMO. He's very physical and could be a dominant run blocker but I don't think he has the foot speed to play on the outside. I liken him to a better Elmer (which would be great).

I could absolutely see a future line of Trey Smith, Kramer, Hoge, Parker, Eichenberg. I really just don't see a lot of tackle depth on the line. Lugg and Gibbons factor in as well but I see Gibbons as the next guard in role and Lugg to challenge at tackle.

Just my thoughts

 

[Sherm Sticky]

Isn't Laremy Tunsil 6'4" maybe 6'5" pushing it? Stanley has the more prototypical LT size. But Tunsil is the best with his feet and super athletic. That's not saying Stanley doesn't have good feet or athleticism, but Tunsil is just in another league.

Smith reminds me so much of Tunsil. just hope he doesn't end up in the same conference Tunsil went to.

 

[BobbyMac]

I was speaking in general form, not necessarily for ND. What I was trying to say is that Trey has the talent to start for a team from day one if the depth chart allows that and play three years and go pro. If he sits a year and develops more physically behind some experience, it'll be extremely tough to keep him buried on the depth chart after that. I think that holds true even at ND.

After this year, you'll have Bars and Eichenberg as your tackles, I believe. Bars will only have one year left at that point.

Kramer is a guard IMO. He's very physical and could be a dominant run blocker but I don't think he has the foot speed to play on the outside. I liken him to a better Elmer (which would be great).

I could absolutely see a future line of Trey Smith, Kramer, Hoge, Parker, Eichenberg. I really just don't see a lot of tackle depth on the line. Lugg and Gibbons factor in as well but I see Gibbons as the next guard in role and Lugg to challenge at tackle.

Just my thoughts

Can't question that post.

All I can add is that the sentiment was heading in the direction of Tommy K playing guard until the end of the cycle when he finished #2, #3, #4 in the Big 3 recruiting sites. I had the OG vibe too but his strong finish in the media made me take a step back. Time will tell.

I actually hope he stays a tackle and replaces Bars at LT and doesn't get moved to OG. I worry that Top LT prospects are going to look at a history of top LT's going to South Bend and getting moved inside like Elmer, Nelson (and TK if it were to happen) and then getting turned off. LT's the money position, if I'm a Top 5 LT, I'm only going where I can play that position...with maybe some RT until it's my turn. I'm not saying what HH does is wrong so no one jump me, I'm just saying if I'm an All American HS tackle, there's a good chance I'm 3-4 years away from a big payday, so I'm sticking to my guns and finding the right program like ND, Stanford, Bama, OSU, etc that puts guys in the League and has a top tier line coach. I'm normally about the education but being a Top LT prospect is one thing that would make me roll the dice on what's best for my development.

Isn't Laremy Tunsil 6'4" maybe 6'5" pushing it? Stanley has the more prototypical LT size. But Tunsil is the best with his feet and super athletic. That's not saying Stanley doesn't have good feet or athleticism, but Tunsil is just in another league.

Smith reminds me so much of Tunsil. just hope he doesn't end up in the same conference Tunsil went to.

Tunsil's 6-5 barefoot per the NFL draft bio. Stanley was 6-6 which is spot on so I believe it.

 

[pkt77242]

Isn't Laremy Tunsil 6'4" maybe 6'5" pushing it? Stanley has the more prototypical LT size. But Tunsil is the best with his feet and super athletic. That's not saying Stanley doesn't have good feet or athleticism, but Tunsil is just in another league.

Smith reminds me so much of Tunsil. just hope he doesn't end up in the same conference Tunsil went to.

I am pretty sure that Tunsil is 6'5". I think that the biggest difference between Tunsil and Stanley is that Tunsil is a better run blocker. I don't think it is feet/athleticism.

 

[Bugzly21]

#1 in the ESPN 300

Inside the Class of 2017 ESPN 300 player rankings

 

[ndcoltsfan2010]

Too short for tackle? Sounds like a monster interior DL then to me.

What you said.. totally agree.

 

[TheRealLynch51]

What you said.. totally agree.

Even if he is shorter than a prototypical stud tackle at the NFL level, that doesn't mean that he can't be an absolute stud at tackle in college. As someone earlier posted, Zack Martin is undersized for an NFL tackle and thats why he was moved to guard, but he balled out in college.

EDIT: Now I understand that Koon was talking about NFL level in the first place.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

Hey Trey Smith did you see who the first tackle taken in the draft was? Could be you one day if you come to Notre Dame young man.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Bogtrotter07]

I already had a headache this morning.

Some of you guys.

So Kramer is a legitimate 6'5" bordering on 6'6", right?

• He doesn't look appreciably shorter than Liam, and everyone has commented on how legitimate Liam's listed height is.
• He may be still growing.

Everyone knows PMoney never hit 6'4", right?

• He is probably 6'3".
• No one ever gets an accurate height from a picture.

Tunstil was never, ever considered the run blocker that Stanley was.

• No respectable scout/service ever considered Tunstil's run blocking to be on par with Stanley's.
• Nobody ever considered Stanley to be any less than two inches taller than Tunstil.

The dope smoking video may have cost Laremy 4M last night, but most feel that his real fade was due to something else -- kind of the Zack Martin effect.

• Last time a great college tackle entered the draft perceived a bit under ideal size.
• Look how that turned out.

Camera angles are simple, lenses are not.

• Standing one step toward the foreground compared to someone to whom you are standing next, makes a big difference.
• As does how far two subjects standing (center to left or right) relative to the center-point of the lens.

 

[Domina Nostra]

If you think about it, if he can play (like Zach Martin), you'd probably rather have slightly shorter OTs at ND in the coming years, considering our QB's are all short.

I The dope smoking video may have cost Laremy 4M last night, but most feel that his real fade was due to something else -- kind of the Zack Martin effect.

• Last time a great college tackle entered the draft perceived a bit under ideal size.
• Look how that turned out.

No sure I understand... Did Zach Martin make people like him more or less? If anything, ZM proved that undersized LTs make KILLER gaurds in the NFL.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

If you think about it, if he can play (like Zach Martin), you'd probably rather have slightly shorter OTs at ND in the coming years, considering our QB's are all short.



No sure I understand... Did Zach Martin make people like him more or less? If anything, ZM proved that undersized LTs make KILLER gaurds in the NFL.

Personally, I don't think Laremy Tunsil is nearly a Zack Martin. Not close! (Of course there is video evidence! )

But I do think there is a comparison to their level of play among their peers in college, and a comparison between them with their size versus an NFL ideal. And I think that explains the eerily similar fade they both had on draft day (compared to pre-draft projections.)

I could see Tunsil being a killer guard, except, I don't see his run blocking as good as Martin or Stanley's. Just the way I see it.

 

[Domina Nostra]

Personally, I don't think Laremy Tunsil is nearly a Zack Martin. Not close! (Of course there is video evidence! )

But I do think there is a comparison to their level of play among their peers in college, and a comparison between them with their size versus an NFL ideal. And I think that explains the eerily similar fade they both had on draft day (compared to pre-draft projections.)

I could see Tunsil being a killer guard, except, I don't see his run blocking as good as Martin or Stanley's. Just the way I see it.

OK. So it isn't really a Zach Martin-effect that you are talking about. Zach Martin should make GM's more interested in undersized o-linemen, considering his success.

You are saying Tunsil suffered the same fate that Martin and every other non-prototype first-round OLmen suffer. NFL GMs are risk averse and play the odds.

 

[Luckylucci]

Told both 247 and BGI, at the Chicago Opening Regional, that HH is the best OL coach in the country and it's getting backed up by the NFL people that he's been able to talk to. Continues to have great things to say about ND but Wiltfong believes that Ole Miss and Clemson lead.

 

[Classic Irish]

Told both 247 and BGI, at the Chicago Opening Regional, that HH is the best OL coach in the country and it's getting backed up by the NFL people that he's been able to talk to. Continues to have great things to say about ND but Wiltfong believes that Ole Miss and Clemson lead.

Hmm, what do Ole Mi$$ and Clem$on share in common?

 

[johnnycando]

Hmm, what do Ole Mi$$ and Clem$on share in common?

Future death penalty(s).

 

[Luckylucci]

Hmm, what do Ole Mi$$ and Clem$on share in common?

I really like this kid and it sounds like he's a fit at ND. However, I seriously have to question any kid that is putting Ole Miss as his leader or close to and how those values/morals apply to ND. Polar opposites. Especially with the recent events of their best players. What type of people do you want to surround yourself with?

 

[Southside Sully]

I really like this kid and it sounds like he's a fit at ND. However, I seriously have to question any kid that is putting Ole Miss as his leader or close to and how those values/morals apply to ND. Polar opposites. Especially with the recent events of their best players. What type of people do you want to surround yourself with?

That's fine to have that opinion but looking at Jackson TN on the map he's not all that far from Oxford and he might feel more comfortable closer to home. Just because players from a school make bad decisions that doesn't mean that every kid that goes to that school
Automatically are going to make those same bad decisions by attending that school. That's making the kid guilty by association already and saying by going to Ole Miss you can throw out his own moral fiber. I could correlate that to every kid that comes to ND would be exposed to questionable morals by some of the things our players have done too. Yes I want him to come to ND but if he goes somewhere else I don't think it automatically makes me question his character at all.

 

[NDVirginia19]

I don't understand how you can recognize that HH is the best O Line coach in the country and can give you the best opportunity to get to the next level, understand ND's superiority academically, and then choose Ole Miss. To each his own though

 

[GreyWorm]

I don't understand how you can recognize that HH is the best O Line coach in the country and can give you the best opportunity to get to the next level, understand ND's superiority academically, and then choose Ole Miss. To each his own though

One word



Comfort.

 

[GreyWorm]

I really like this kid and it sounds like he's a fit at ND. However, I seriously have to question any kid that is putting Ole Miss as his leader or close to and how those values/morals apply to ND. Polar opposites. Especially with the recent events of their best players. What type of people do you want to surround yourself with?

Why does a college decision impact what type of person you are? Sure, getting a degree is nice, but for 95% of these kids, they are going to college to get to the NFL and not a degree. That is the career path they have chosen. I went to college to gain further education and to get a job in finance, however, these kids are going to school to further their football games and have a shot at making the NFL.

Sure, Ole Miss is going through a lot of negative press right now, but they aren't the only school in the country that pays their players and gives them benefits against NCAA rules.

Smith can go to Ole Miss and get on the field quicker at Ole Miss than Notre Dame, much less he can have the Southern lifestyle in Oxford. Comfort is a big factor when it comes to kids from South especially. Notre Dame is a fit for Smith and he saw that when he visited, but how does he like being possibly being the only black OL in the room when Mustipher leaves? How does he adjust to a different atmosphere of living than what he is used to?

That is the stuff that gives Alabama, Ole Miss and Clemson an advantage over Notre Dame. From all accounts, he has a great relationship with Kraemer and Boudreaux, so that's a plus for Notre Dame, but is it better than the other relationships he has with players at other schools?

The other fact is that you're going to have to sit longer at Notre Dame than most schools. It's going to be tough to come in and get playing time your first two seasons at Notre Dame with the quality of depth Hiestand has built. Some prospects like the chance to develop, while others would love the opportunity to compete early. It's not a "Oh, this kid is scared to compete" situation, but it's just a fact of how good Hiestand has recruited the OL.

I personally just feel that what you said isn't a fair statement about the kid. I'm not trying to say you're wrong or anything, but there is a lot more to take into consideration than "Why would a ND kid choose to play at Ole Miss" than the stuff that happens at every school.

 

[Luckylucci]

That's fine to have that opinion but looking at Jackson TN on the map he's not all that far from Oxford and he might feel more comfortable closer to home. Just because players from a school make bad decisions that doesn't mean that every kid that goes to that school
Automatically are going to make those same bad decisions by attending that school. That's making the kid guilty by association already and saying by going to Ole Miss you can throw out his own moral fiber. I could correlate that to every kid that comes to ND would be exposed to questionable morals by some of the things our players have done too. Yes I want him to come to ND but if he goes somewhere else I don't think it automatically makes me question his character at all.

It's the whole program. Not just a few players. It's apparent that Tunsil was made a "deal" for his signature. So this isn't just a few players that are getting in trouble, it's the entire environment that is being fostered and created by the coaches and more than likely higher ups.

 

[Classic Irish]

It's the whole program. Not just a few players. It's apparent that Tunsil was made a "deal" for his signature. So this isn't just a few players that are getting in trouble, it's the entire environment that is being fostered and created by the coaches and more than likely higher ups.

This. ^^^^^^^^^

 

[Classic Irish]

Why does a college decision impact what type of person you are? Sure, getting a degree is nice, but for 95% of these kids, they are going to college to get to the NFL and not a degree. That is the career path they have chosen. I went to college to gain further education and to get a job in finance, however, these kids are going to school to further their football games and have a shot at making the NFL.

Sure, Ole Miss is going through a lot of negative press right now, but they aren't the only school in the country that pays their players and gives them benefits against NCAA rules.

Smith can go to Ole Miss and get on the field quicker at Ole Miss than Notre Dame, much less he can have the Southern lifestyle in Oxford. Comfort is a big factor when it comes to kids from South especially. Notre Dame is a fit for Smith and he saw that when he visited, but how does he like being possibly being the only black OL in the room when Mustipher leaves? How does he adjust to a different atmosphere of living than what he is used to?

That is the stuff that gives Alabama, Ole Miss and Clemson an advantage over Notre Dame. From all accounts, he has a great relationship with Kraemer and Boudreaux, so that's a plus for Notre Dame, but is it better than the other relationships he has with players at other schools?

The other fact is that you're going to have to sit longer at Notre Dame than most schools. It's going to be tough to come in and get playing time your first two seasons at Notre Dame with the quality of depth Hiestand has built. Some prospects like the chance to develop, while others would love the opportunity to compete early. It's not a "Oh, this kid is scared to compete" situation, but it's just a fact of how good Hiestand has recruited the OL.

I personally just feel that what you said isn't a fair statement about the kid. I'm not trying to say you're wrong or anything, but there is a lot more to take into consideration than "Why would a ND kid choose to play at Ole Miss" than the stuff that happens at every school.

Ugh. If this kid is as focused on football (to the exclusion of everything else) as you suggest and fails to see the bigger picture, then he should go somewhere else.

 

[Luckylucci]

From the sites that saw the whole camp, he looked dominant. From the clips I saw he also really good and it wasn't even close in his 1 on 1 battle

Was invited to The Opening.

 

[GreyWorm]

It's the whole program. Not just a few players. It's apparent that Tunsil was made a "deal" for his signature. So this isn't just a few players that are getting in trouble, it's the entire environment that is being fostered and created by the coaches and more than likely higher ups.

This isn't meant to sound offensive, but if you only think that is happening at Ole Miss, then you don't know college football. It happens from D3-D-1 at every program from top to bottom.

I don't think any coach in the country, yes even Brian Kelly, cares if their players get money, benefits, etc as long as they don't get caught. It's part of college football. Is it unfortunate, sure, but it's reality. So I don't think it's fair to judge a kid based off the schools he is picking.

If Smith was considering Northwestern, Duke and Notre Dame, people would question if he was dedicated to football.