'17 PA OT Joshua Lugg (Notre Dame Signee)

[GoldenToTheGrave]

Your analysis is reductive. Poor conversion rates on 3rd and short aren't necessarily on the OL. Success in such situations depends on TEs and FBs doing their jobs sufficiently as well; we didn't have that this year. No matter how good your OL is, at the end of the day, there's only 5 of them; and they can only do so much against opponents who are regularly stacking the box and daring your freshman QB to beat them with his arm.

The last part of my analysis was, the first part about our OLine rarely getting push in short yardage and goal line situations is observational. Even against inferior talent, obvious running situations have been a consistent problem over the past three years.

 

[gkIrish]

Your analysis is reductive. Poor conversion rates on 3rd and short aren't necessarily on the OL. Success in such situations depends on TEs and FBs doing their jobs sufficiently as well; we didn't have that this year. No matter how good your OL is, at the end of the day, there's only 5 of them; and they can only do so much against opponents who are regularly stacking the box and daring your freshman QB to beat them with his arm.

Doesn't the O-Line coach spend a significant amount of time with TEs? And we don't have FBs...

 

[Luckylucci]

HH is a very good OL coach and that is abundantly clear. However, to act as if the OL is perfect is far fetched and not remotely accurate. Numerous times against the aggressive fronts we played (Clemson, Temple, and Wake) OL missed blocks or didn't win their respective matchups. Now, was our OL still very good, yes, but it was definitely some fault of theirs that those games ended up the way they did.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

The last part of my analysis was, the first part about our OLine rarely getting push in short yardage and goal line situations is observational. Even against inferior talent, obvious running situations have been a consistent problem over the past three years.

HH is a very good OL coach and that is abundantly clear. However, to act as if the OL is perfect is far fetched and not remotely accurate. Numerous times against the aggressive fronts we played (Clemson, Temple, and Wake) OL missed blocks or didn't win their respective matchups. Now, was our OL still very good, yes, but it was definitely some fault of theirs that those games ended up the way they did.

I never argued that our OL is perfect. There's definite room for improvement in some areas. I just don't know how much of that is on our individual players, Hiestand, or Hiestand's zone-blocking scheme. Some of it is simply baked into Kelly's offense. Given our scheme and personnel, we'll always struggle more in compressed yardage situations than a team like Alabama does.

Doesn't the O-Line coach spend a significant amount of time with TEs? And we don't have FBs...

I have no idea how much time, if any, our TEs spend with Hiestand. And our lack of FBs goes to our personnel contributing to short yardage woes.

 

[Luckylucci]

I never argued that our OL is perfect. There's definite room for improvement in some areas. I just don't know how much of that is on our individual players, Hiestand, or Hiestand's zone-blocking scheme. Some of it is simply baked into Kelly's offense. Given our scheme and personnel, we'll always struggle more in compressed yardage situations than a team like Alabama.



I have no idea how much time, if any, our TEs spend with Hiestand. And our lack of FBs goes to our personnel contributing to short yardage woes.

It wasn't directed at you or anyone in particular. Just that even in a zone blocking scheme you still have to win matchups or get to the spot your supposed to be at. 2pt. Conversion at the end of the Clemson game is a good example. The OL didn't execute, we had the right play call and didn't finish it. If I remember correctly Prosise misses his block but Elmer is never able to get off of his and Martin doesn't get across the formation. I could be wrong on names but that play works if all the OL do their respective jobs, as well as Prosise, so blame all around.

 

[BobbyMac]

Do you guys think the Irish offensive personnel with Hiestand and Booker coaching them would perform better in systems like Stanford, MSU, Bama or tOSU than they do in CBK's system?

Do you think they would outperform those offensive groups in each of their systems if we could magically switch them?

Just curious.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

Does the site have mods anymore?


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[Luckylucci]

Does the site have mods anymore?


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Nope, complete chaos and anarchy

 

[johnnycando]

Does the site have mods anymore?


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I know your butthole is sore from picking your panties out of it ( * )

 

[Old Man Mike]

Bringing "perfect" into any argument is a straw man and not productive of analysis. That's true regardless of the "side" one is on. OLine quality is better judged by what experts think of the body of work [since everyone gets beat now and then.] Our OLine was rated among the best six OLines in the nation. How much better do they have to be before anyone's [reasonably] happy with them?

No one can survive a 'one mistake and you're fired' style of criticism. We've got plenty to discuss regarding team improvement. The OLine is WAY down that list.

 

[johnnycando]

^

I'm ecstatic we're where we are on the o line.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

I know your butthole is sore from picking your panties out of it ( * )

Exactly my point dick


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[johnnycando]

Ahhhh poor whittle guy.

 

[jspags10pg]

It wasn't directed at you or anyone in particular. Just that even in a zone blocking scheme you still have to win matchups or get to the spot your supposed to be at. 2pt. Conversion at the end of the Clemson game is a good example. The OL didn't execute, we had the right play call and didn't finish it. If I remember correctly Prosise misses his block but Elmer is never able to get off of his and Martin doesn't get across the formation. I could be wrong on names but that play works if all the OL do their respective jobs, as well as Prosise, so blame all around.

The thing I remember most about that 2 point conversion (besides not converting) is Weishar getting blown up on the outside of the line/backfield and thinking that if Luatua were healthy that it wouldn't have happened and Kizer would have had a small window to bounce it a little more outside and possibly convert. That's not a knock on Nic because he improved his blocking a lot as the season went on but Luatua is obviously our best blocker as an H-back or TE and he was out with a concussion.

I also wondered why Hounshell wasn't in for blocking purposes since Weishar wasn't a solid blocker yet and Luatua was out but I'm pretty sure Coach Kelly cleared that up in one of the post game pressers saying that it was a run/pass option and Deshone correctly checked into the run.

But like I said, Nic improved a lot and his blocking was pretty impressive against Stanford.

And lastly to stay on topic with the thread, I trust any and all O-line offers made by Harry, and Lugg is no exception. Harry knows his stuff and knows how to identify a prospect early. Lugg will be great under our staff no doubt.

 

[ThePiombino]

Bringing "perfect" into any argument is a straw man and not productive of analysis. That's true regardless of the "side" one is on. OLine quality is better judged by what experts think of the body of work [since everyone gets beat now and then.] Our OLine was rated among the best six OLines in the nation. How much better do they have to be before anyone's [reasonably] happy with them?

No one can survive a 'one mistake and you're fired' style of criticism. We've got plenty to discuss regarding team improvement. The OLine is WAY down that list.

Re-read the posts you're referencing. They admit that their performance has been good (very good even), but that there is room for improvement. Only an idiot would attempt to argue against that. And just because there are other, larger issues to be dealt with does not mean we can't still talk about it. You are not the gatekeeper of online discussion. HH is one of the most important coaches and recruiters we have. We get it. Doesn't mean he's above reproach.

 

[Old Man Mike]

Don't tell me not to have strong opinions about what I'm passionate about.

Three cheers Harry, Joshua, and an elite OLine at ND and one for years to come.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

FWIW, ND's OL ranked 4th nationally in Adjusted Line Yards, which attempts to separate the OL's contribution to our rushing attack from our RBs. Which tends to support my intuition that our struggles running the ball in short yardage situations were not primarily on Hiestand or his troops.

Though I was surprised to see them ranked 50th in Adjusted Sack Rate. I assume much of that is due to Kizer simply holding onto the ball too long, but I thought they'd still grade out better in pass protection.

 

[Old Man Mike]

Deshone still doesn't read the potential blitz directions very well, plus he tends never to be a quitter and often steps into clefts which are unsustainable by the battling OLineman.

But I am surprised, even at that, by "50"... If that is indeed a "rate per attempt" rather than a "rate per game."

 

[Chi_IRISH]

It wasn't directed at you or anyone in particular. Just that even in a zone blocking scheme you still have to win matchups or get to the spot your supposed to be at. 2pt. Conversion at the end of the Clemson game is a good example. The OL didn't execute, we had the right play call and didn't finish it. If I remember correctly Prosise misses his block but Elmer is never able to get off of his and Martin doesn't get across the formation. I could be wrong on names but that play works if all the OL do their respective jobs, as well as Prosise, so blame all around.

If I'm not mistaken, Nick Weisher got killed on that play, and didn't set much of an edge.

 

[Irish#1]

I personally still think that Wariner got better results on the field at least in run blocking, while Heistand has an edge in pass blocking. As recruiters however there's no comparison. Still waiting on this O-line to perform in short yardage situations.

I understand Harry's scheme, and I know that every scheme has its positives and negatives, but considering the level of recruiting we've had in the O-line, it's troubling that 3rd and short and goal line situations have been a challenge. Not being able to convert in obvious running situations hurts drive efficiency, red zone efficiency, and makes it hard to put teams away--not coincidentally things that we've struggled with for the past few years.

Harry's done a hell of job here, but the O-line still has some work to do. An elite O-line can bully other teams when it need to, and that has yet to be a hallmark under Harry's tenure.

Most of this has to do with running out of the spread instead of going under the center.

 

[PANDFAN]

#146 composite-247

 

[beryirish]

Not bad - about a 60 spot jump

 

[beryirish]

may need to double check PANDA.

Loy's write up doesn't have Lugg in the Top 247

 

[NDShark]

That's the composite I believe.

 

[PANDFAN]

my fault fellas ....i was looking at the list and then switched over to ND commits to make it easier and didn't notice they had them listed that way as composites instead of overall..

 

[dublinirish]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Pv7LO2oHvoM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

@2:37 Oklahoma drills from practice. Mustipher pancaking Montellus a highlight I'd say

Edited by Tom Loy, is there no end to this man's talents?!

 

[NDVirginia19]

Edited by Tom Loy, is there no end to this man's talents?!

Maybe finding a song that lasted the whole video

 

[PANDFAN]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Strong words in here from '17 Notre Dame OT commit Josh Lugg (<a href="https://twitter.com/jluggnut">@jluggnut</a>). <a href="https://t.co/75YQE3zH11">pic.twitter.com/75YQE3zH11</a></p>— Mike Vorel (@mikevorel) <a href="https://twitter.com/mikevorel/status/712367068499279872">March 22, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[rtrn2glory]

Looks like we got a dude ready to lead

 

[Crazy Balki]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Strong words in here from '17 Notre Dame OT commit Josh Lugg (<a href="https://twitter.com/jluggnut">@jluggnut</a>). <a href="https://t.co/75YQE3zH11">pic.twitter.com/75YQE3zH11</a></p>— Mike Vorel (@mikevorel) <a href="https://twitter.com/mikevorel/status/712367068499279872">March 22, 2016</a></blockquote>
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Sounds like Lugg has our number.