'16 GA ATH Demetris Robertson (Georgia Transfer)

[Kingbish01]

How do you not blame the institute for creating joke majors for the sole purpose of allowing their players to avoid studying or trying to succeed?

They can be blamed for that, but if the recruit is interested in academics he doesn't have to take ballroom dancing. Plenty of people are getting great degrees from USC, Leinart just chose not too.

 

[koonja]

Okay...forget the athlete part. Do you guys think that every student at BAMA or UGA is going to go on and make 35k a year.

I know plenty of people that went to small schools in Western Pa and have gone on to make great money. The school opens doors, but the student has to walk through them.

I'm just saying that if DR decides to go to UGA and attend their business school, it's arrogant to think he is making a major mistake. Because he is not. Look how many people are able to feed their families and pay their bills without an ND or Stanford degree.

Ok, but that cannot be compared to Mendoza Business School at ND. Arguably no business undergrad school in America can be. So you can have a great living at Georgia, but all things equal, that's going to be a better living with the ND degree and that's not debatable.

 

[Kingbish01]

Ok, but that cannot be compared to Mendoza Business School at ND. Arguably no business undergrad school in America can be. So you can have a great living at Georgia, but all things equal, that's going to be a better living with the ND degree and that's not debatable.

I'm not debating Mendoza is a better school. But you can't honestly think that EVERY person who got a degree from Mendoza is making way more money than EVERY person who got a degree from Terry. My bro in law got a degree from PSU business school, and he makes 400k a year. You don't walk in a guarantee yourself more money just because you went to X school.

 

[Classic Irish]

No, it's not and I'm so sick of having to be politically correct with regards to ND's education.

Yes, you "can" get a "great" education "anywhere." I also "can" quit my job tomorrow and become a Youtube sensation. That does not mean it's an expected outcome, or that there is merit considering it as a probable occurrence.

At Stanford, we KNOW that student-athletes take real classes* in real majors and almost all graduate with meaningful degrees from an extremely prestigious school with a powerful alumni network.

At Notre Dame, we KNOW that student athletes take real classes in real majors and almost all graduate with meaningful degrees a prestigious school with a powerful alumni network.

At Georgia and Alabama, we know that while many kids graduate there is a large chunk of those that don't get meaningful degrees... and that even if you apply yourself and DO get a real education in a real major 1) the degree is less valuable than ND or Stanford 2) the alumni network and elite job placement is worse than ND or Stanford 3) your overall career prospects are significantly worse when looked at as a collective group.

At Georgia Tech, we know that a huge chunk don't even graduate and those that do are forced into what is considered the easiest major.

What Notre Dame does for student athletes from an educational standpoint is very similar to Stanford. What Georgia/Alabama/Georgia Tech do for student athletes is almost the polar opposite.

Excellent post! I couldn't agree more.

 

[connor_in]

Excellent post! I couldn't agree more.

{connor_in frantically searching youtube to find IrishLax in order to discover in what way he will be the next youtube sensation....praying it is not by singing baby, baby, baby, ooooohhhh}

 

[Kingbish01]

Ok, but that cannot be compared to Mendoza Business School at ND. Arguably no business undergrad school in America can be. So you can have a great living at Georgia, but all things equal, that's going to be a better living with the ND degree and that's not debatable.

Whoa, Michigan, IU, Cal, UVA, UNC all have great business schools. For the record, my father graduated from ND's business school (not sure if it was named Mendoza in 1972).

I'm just saying we all love ND, but we aren't the end all be all when it comes to being a student athlete.

 

[koonja]

I'm not debating Mendoza is a better school. But you can't honestly think that EVERY person who got a degree from Mendoza is making way more money than EVERY person who got a degree from Terry. My bro in law got a degree from PSU business school, and he makes 400k a year. You don't walk in a guarantee yourself more money just because you went to X school.

Well no, but it makes it a lot more likely.

 

[IrishLax]

Main reason is because the student is different. "Student Athletes" that go to ND are different than "SA" that go to Bama. IMO, it's as simple as that. The reason Bama and UGA are polar opposite is because they have kids that don't care about academics, so it's their fault not the institute. My point is if DR wants to be a student athlete we can't act like ND and Stanford are the only places this is possible. That is ridiculous.

No, it's common sense backed up by fact. You're basically saying a bunch of good-sounding nonsense that is backed up by literally nothing other than conjecture. There are EXCEPTIONS in every situation (McElroy, Rolle, etc.) but they are exactly that... exceptions. Suggesting that any normal person with below a 1000 on the SAT is going to be that "exception" at one of these schools is devoid of logic.

If "all schools are the same" and all that matters is the drive/intellect of the student, then how come the BEST students almost always choose the same schools?

The answer is because those schools provide 1) superior education 2) superior alumni network 3) superior career prospects 4) superior prestige.

So to throw all of that out the window and pretend that everything is the same except for the kids themselves is truly one of the most outlandish things I've ever read about higher education. If all schools were created equal, people would just go to the cheapest/warmest/closest place and call it a day. That's not how this works. That's not how any of this works.

Furthermore, with respect to student athletes the ND difference is that ND provides a 1) superior support structure 2) superior focus on degree-oriented classes instead of "stay eligible" classes 3) superior institutional give-a-shit 4) does not funnel kids into joke majors like "general studies" at Michigan 5) superior career-focused education that actually prepares students to be successful without or post-football.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

I'm not debating Mendoza is a better school. But you can't honestly think that EVERY person who got a degree from Mendoza is making way more money than EVERY person who got a degree from Terry. My bro in law got a degree from PSU business school, and he makes 400k a year. You don't walk in a guarantee yourself more money just because you went to X school.

Look at the grad rate average pay for the first year out of school. And follow them for five years.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Whoa, Michigan, IU, Cal, UVA, UNC all have great business schools. For the record, my father graduated from ND's business school (not sure if it was named Mendoza in 1972).

I'm just saying we all love ND, but we aren't the end all be all when it comes to being a student athlete.

The problem with Michigan is that the athletic department steers the players away from meaningful majors, into easy ones. This is well documented, even by the current coach.

Want to guess how much this has changed under his tenure?

 

[Luckylucci]

So what I find righteously funny is how he continues to say that he doesn't want to rush anything and wants to take his time. I mean, C'mon Man!

 

[Kingbish01]

No, it's common sense backed up by fact. You're basically saying a bunch of good-sounding nonsense that is backed up by literally nothing other than conjecture. There are EXCEPTIONS in every situation (McElroy, Rolle, etc.) but they are exactly that... exceptions. Suggesting that any normal person with below a 1000 on the SAT is going to be that "exception" at one of these schools is devoid of logic.

If "all schools are the same" and all that matters is the drive/intellect of the student, then how come the BEST students almost always choose the same schools?

The answer is because those schools provide 1) superior education 2) superior alumni network 3) superior career prospects 4) superior prestige.

So to throw all of that out the window and pretend that everything is the same except for the kids themselves is truly one of the most outlandish things I've ever read about higher education. If all schools were created equal, people would just go to the cheapest/warmest/closest place and call it a day. That's not how this works. That's not how any of this works.

Furthermore, with respect to student athletes the ND difference is that ND provides a 1) superior support structure 2) superior focus on degree-oriented classes instead of "stay eligible" classes 3) superior institutional give-a-shit 4) does not funnel kids into joke majors like "general studies" at Michigan 5) superior career-focused education that actually prepares students to be successful without or post-football.

All I'm trying to say is if DR goes to UGA/Tech or Virginia for that matter and takes school serious he will be fine if the NFL doesn't work out. You don't NEED to go to ND to be successful in life, as hard as that may be to believe.

Serious question Lax...Say you are running a company, and a job candidate comes in from ND and from Pitt (both with business degrees) and the ND guy is just an @$$hole and the Pitt guy is not. Who would you hire?

 

[PANDFAN]

New SAT brings anxiety and confusion - CNN.com

 

[ndfb3.1]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tqQP7i3Qxs

 

[NDShark]

New SAT brings anxiety and confusion - CNN.com

I think they're referring to IE guys!

 

[Andy in Sactown]

Good morning thread. Have a nice day at work. See you tomorrow.

 

[gkIrish]

All I'm trying to say is if DR goes to UGA/Tech or Virginia for that matter and takes school serious he will be fine if the NFL doesn't work out. You don't NEED to go to ND to be successful in life, as hard as that may be to believe.
Serious question Lax...Say you are running a company, and a job candidate comes in from ND and from Pitt (both with business degrees) and the ND guy is just an @$$hole and the Pitt guy is not. Who would you hire?

That's not what anyone is saying. We are saying that when things like tuition don't matter and a person has the option to choose between ND and UGA/GT, if they care about their future, it is a colossal mistake to consciously choose to go to UGA/GT.

Yes, you can be successful regardless of where you go to school, but it's a matter of defying the odds when you go to UGA/GT. Going to ND/Stanford is a matter of not screwing up.

 

[Irish#1]

All I'm trying to say is if DR goes to UGA/Tech or Virginia for that matter and takes school serious he will be fine if the NFL doesn't work out. You don't NEED to go to ND to be successful in life, as hard as that may be to believe.

Serious question Lax...Say you are running a company, and a job candidate comes in from ND and from Pitt (both with business degrees) and the ND guy is just an @$$hole and the Pitt guy is not. Who would you hire?

Not answering for LAX, but I'll hire the ND grad all day long. If you're a smart businessman, you know not everyone on your staff is going to be Father Hesburgh and you need qualified people to make your company a success.

True story.......I run IT at my current company. At my former employer I did the same. I used a consultant, who had a great technical skill set, but was a bust when working and communicating with people. He also fancied himself an expert and always has an opinion on most anything. Would always interject himself into conversations even if he wasn't invited. He could drive you nuts at times. Guess where he works now? Yep I hired him, even with his flaws. Why? Because his skill set helps me achieve my goals for the company.

I agree you can get a great education at a lot of public schools. The difference is ND or Stanford is going to make you get a great education.

 

[GATTACA!]

 

[QuarrelsomeIrishAmerican]

That's not what anyone is saying. We are saying that when things like tuition don't matter and a person has the option to choose between ND and UGA/GT, if they care about their future, it is a colossal mistake to consciously choose to go to UGA/GT.

Yes, you can be successful regardless of where you go to school, but it's a matter of defying the odds when you go to UGA/GT. Going to ND/Stanford is a matter of not screwing up.

Get your head out of your own behind. As long as you have drive, you can succeed going anywhere. Not everyone on this list is defying the odds: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_University_of_Georgia_people

It's ludicrous to think where you go to school will define you forever. As an ND alum, I have surely used our alumni network to our advantage. I have also seen the University of Maryland alumni network work even better for their alums in DC and NYC.

It's one thing to love your school and it's another to think your automatically better than everyone else bc you picked it at 17.

 

[IrishLax]

All I'm trying to say is if DR goes to UGA/Tech or Virginia for that matter and takes school serious he will be fine if the NFL doesn't work out. You don't NEED to go to ND to be successful in life, as hard as that may be to believe.

Of course not, and I don't think anyone is saying that. Which is (I think) our main point of disagreement here.

Your viewpoint is "you can great education and be successful regardless of what school you got to, so let's not act like it's totally crazy for him to pick (insert less prestigious school)"

My viewpoint is "there are very few schools like Stanford and ND that truly dedicate themselves to graduating players with true educations and meaningful degrees, and it's extremely unlikely that someone in his shoes is going to be the exception and get a 'great' education at a football factory or school like GT that has horrible graduation rates."

So I think someone would be crazy to say that "you NEED to go to (INSERT SCHOOL) to be successful in life"... that obviously doesn't make sense. But I think it's almost as crazy to suggest that there isn't a huge difference for the average person going to a place like Stanford vs "SEC school", and that holds doubly true for student athletes.

Serious question Lax...Say you are running a company, and a job candidate comes in from ND and from Pitt (both with business degrees) and the ND guy is just an @$$hole and the Pitt guy is not. Who would you hire?

I basically reject this question. First of all, I'd never give preferential treatment to an ND person if they were 1) unqualified 2) a bad fit. Second, my firm hires people from a lot of different places and walks of life. We have Stanford, Notre Dame, Cornell... we also hire a lot of Penn State and Kansas State because they have very strong architectural engineering programs. Engineering is a bit of a meritocracy, so I'm going to hire the "Pitt" guy every time if he's got a better GPA/resume/interviews/advanced degrees.

Third, and this is probably the most important, this binary question doesn't really apply to Demetris Robertson or any other prospective athlete. It's not "does aptitude and personality trump the school on your diploma?" The answer is obviously "yes."

The question is "does the same student athlete with the same professional goals have a decided advantage in reaching those goals going to Notre Dame or Alabama?" If those professional goals are lofty, the answer is obviously that they get a bigger leg up at Notre Dame. And with respect to Georgia Tech, they're a truly fantastic engineering school but they effectively don't let student athletes do engineering AND they don't help football players achieve degrees.

 

[pkt77242]

So I think that this conversation should be more nuanced. ND is a better school than UGA and ALA and there is no question about that. The problem with a blanket statement like that is that it is too general. Doesn't what the player want to major in matter? For example if someone really wants to major in supply chain management then Michigan State as the best SCM program in the country (and ASU is top 5) now I would not consider either of those schools to be anywhere close to ND but if that was the major that someone was set on, then I could not fault their decision for choosing MSU or ASU over ND.

 

[koonja]

Are Bonita fish big?

 

[IrishLion]

Are Bonita fish big?

 

[JughedJones]

Get your head out of your own behind. As long as you have drive, you can succeed going anywhere. Not everyone on this list is defying the odds: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_University_of_Georgia_people

It's ludicrous to think where you go to school will define you forever. As an ND alum, I have surely used our alumni network to our advantage. I have also seen the University of Maryland alumni network work even better for their alums in DC and NYC.

It's one thing to love your school and it's another to think your* automatically better than everyone else bc you picked it at 17.

*you're

 

[NDShark]

Are Bonita fish big?

The relative relevance of this post to the thread topic is extremely high.

 

[gkIrish]

Get your head out of your own behind. As long as you have drive, you can succeed going anywhere. Not everyone on this list is defying the odds: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_University_of_Georgia_people

It's ludicrous to think where you go to school will define you forever. As an ND alum, I have surely used our alumni network to our advantage. I have also seen the University of Maryland alumni network work even better for their alums in DC and NYC.

It's one thing to love your school and it's another to think your automatically better than everyone else bc you picked it at 17.

I agree with Lax's post but I will add that if he wants to live in Georgia long-term, a degree from Georgia or Georgia Tech helps in many ways. People from the south or the Midwest tend to respect and trust people that went to an in-state school. It's not like that in the other parts of the country but I think it is true in the Midwest and South.

In other words, IF he wants to live in Georgia, the disparity in quality of education and quality of alumni networks is mitigated a bit. That being said, it's still not even close and I would pick ND or Stanford if he really cares about academics and his future.

First, you must have missed my post saying if he wants to live in Georgia then going to UGA is a more understandable option. I'm surprised that you went to Notre Dame considering your opinion on this issue. I don't think Notre Dame is a better choice based on academics than Georgia, I "know" it is. Have some self-respect for you degree and stop defending other schools based on nothing at all. You want to drop a Georgia Wikipedia list, fine. I'll see that and raise you this one.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_University_of_Notre_Dame_alumni

Again it's not about being impossible to succeed in life by going to UGA. That's obviously not the case. But you are acting like an ND degree and a UGA degree have the same expected value. Just not true at all. By the way, I have argued on the other side of this issue when someone compared USC to ND. So I don't have a blanket opinion about ND v. other schools. But Georgia is not USC.

 

[Irish#1]

How 'bout that Robertson kid?

 

[gkIrish]

How 'bout that Robertson kid?

No one has time for that when we have ND alums on here arguing that a Georgia degree is as valuable as a Notre Dame degree. Have to fight the good fight.

 

[IrishLion]

How 'bout that Robertson kid?

This thread is beyond moderating.

When he's got a solid timeline and not just "maybe when he gets his scores in May?", then we'll start cleaning it up and keeping it on track. Or if it gets really ugly, personal, and offensive.

Until those things happen, this might as well be the "Rumored Violations" thread.

Please, back to the trophy fish.