2016 Presidential Horse Race

[pkt77242]

You seem to be forgetting our president's "I've got a pen and a phone" line. Compromise? Haha. If Congress doesn't do what he wants, he goes off and does it on his own via executive order.

Obama is willing to compromise, it doesn't mean that he will always compromise but Cruz doesn't believe in compromising. Also what you are talking about isn't compromising or lack of compromising it is doing something when nothing is getting done (whether you agree with his individual actions or not is a different matter). Compare Obama and Cruz when it comes to budgets. One is willing to compromise and the other would rather shut down the government.



Out of curiosity, how do the people who thought that Obama was too inexperienced to be President feel about Cruz, Paul and Rubio's experience?

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Obama is willing to compromise, it doesn't mean that he will always compromise but Cruz doesn't believe in compromising. Also what you are talking about isn't compromising or lack of compromising it is doing something when nothing is getting done (whether you agree with his individual actions or not is a different matter). Compare Obama and Cruz when it comes to budgets. One is willing to compromise and the other would rather shut down the government.



Out of curiosity, how do the people who thought that Obama was too inexperienced to be President feel about Cruz, Paul and Rubio's experience?

Doesn't mean a president has the right to "do something" with his pen when he thinks "nothing is getting done."

 

[Booslum31]

Agree completely. As a conservative it's embarrassing that Cruz and Carson are in the "top 8"




Cruz gives me the creeps.

This is embarassing that this is the eight we come up with...as well as the two clowns on the other side. If it all went down today I guess I would go with Rubio but I'm really just starting to engage. I promosed myself that I wouldn;t start paying attention until Trump is out of the picture...doesn't look like that's going to happen any time soon. Embarrassing is a good way to put it.

 

[Rizzophil]

Then laugh. Cruz doesn't believe in compromise. It is his way or the highway. Great for getting elected, but shitty for governing.

Like Obama?

On another note. Is any GOO nominee have enough stones to completely repeal the biggest Jon killer on small biz in our history...Unaffordable Care Act

 

[pkt77242]

Doesn't mean a president has the right to "do something" with his pen when he thinks "nothing is getting done."

Depends. Executive actions have been used by many Presidents not just Obama. Executive Orders

Here is an interesting read on Reagan and Obama and executive actions.
Forbes Welcome

Also you might want to read up on Executive Order 12333 done by your hero Ronald Reagan. If you want to complain about Obama then you better start complaining about Reagan as well. I would argue that EO 12333 has done more to harm liberty in the US than anything that Obama has done.

 

[Booslum31]

Depends. Executive actions have been used by many Presidents not just Obama. Executive Orders

Here is an interesting read on Reagan and Obama and executive actions.
Forbes Welcome

Also you might want to read up on Executive Order 12333 done by your hero Ronald Reagan. If you want to complain about Obama then you better start complaining about Reagan as well. I would argue that EO 12333 has done more to harm liberty in the US than anything that Obama has done.

I thought that Exectutive Order had something to do with trying to get all of our federal agencies to work better together and share their intel with each other. I might be way off but i thought it was a good thing. Is your beef with it that it threatens our privacies? I'm just not totally up to speed on the particular order and it's impact.

 

[pkt77242]

I thought that Exectutive Order had something to do with trying to get all of our federal agencies to work better together and share their intel with each other. I might be way off but i thought it was a good thing. Is your beef with it that it threatens our privacies? I'm just not totally up to speed on the particular order and it's impact.

It is the EO that gives NSA their power and we know how that turned out (including collecting Americans data). Basically he went around Congress to get something done that he felt that Congress wasn't acting on. So pretty much what Obama has done on a few things.

 

[pkt77242]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2014/07/23/privacy-watchdogs-next-target-the-least-known-but-biggest-aspect-of-nsa-surveillance/

 

[GoIrish41]

What's he done to be considered good? I go back to his only real action as a senator... Shutting down the government to hold obamacare hostage in a stunt that went terribly. He's also arrogant. It's hard to see when Trump is nearby, but I don't think the new McCarthy is electable.

I'm caucusing Monday for the most electable IMHO. Rubio.

If I was republican leaning, this is where I'd be. He is the only GOP candidate, IMO, who would have a legit shot at winning the general, too.

 

[West Coast Domer]

New York Times endorsed Kasich. I wish he could gain some traction, but I do not think it will happen. As someone whose views fall in line with the Dems, Kasich would be the only Rep I would vote for. It is a shame being the adult in the room does not get you very far.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Depends. Executive actions have been used by many Presidents not just Obama. Executive Orders

Here is an interesting read on Reagan and Obama and executive actions.
Forbes Welcome

Also you might want to read up on Executive Order 12333 done by your hero Ronald Reagan. If you want to complain about Obama then you better start complaining about Reagan as well. I would argue that EO 12333 has done more to harm liberty in the US than anything that Obama has done.

I'm well aware of Executive Orders and that past presidents used them. The difference isn't the what, it's the "why" and the application. Reagan wasn't passing executive orders because he didn't get what he wanted from Congress.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

New York Times endorsed Kasich. I wish he could gain some traction, but I do not think it will happen. As someone whose views fall in line with the Dems, Kasich would be the only Rep I would vote for. It is a shame being the adult in the room does not get you very far.

lol an endorsement from the NYT is exactly why Kasich is polling so low. It's not because he's the only adult in the room. It's because he's a weak cnoservative and might as well be Democrat Light.

 

[pkt77242]

I'm well aware of Executive Orders and that past presidents used them. The difference isn't the what, it's the "why" and the application. Reagan wasn't passing executive orders because he didn't get what he wanted from Congress.

The only problem is that you are wrong. Really wrong.

Reagan to Use Executive Orders to Bypass Congress - latimes

The problem is that you have bought into that narrative when it is factually incorrect.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Like Obama?

On another note. Is any GOO nominee have enough stones to completely repeal the biggest Jon killer on small biz in our history...Unaffordable Care Act

The Affordable Care Act was a compromise position. Obama didn't start from single payer. He barely even pushed for a public option. He started from a Romney-style plan, one that was far more conservative than Nixon's (that commie pinko), that had previously been touted as a free market alternative to putting government in charge of health care.

No matter how loudly you say the opposite, Obama is a left of center pragmatist. Political polarization has been studied quite a lot. The data clearly show that Republicans have become far more conservative than Democrats have become liberal, particularly in the House. That's the major source of polarization in the country.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

lol an endorsement from the NYT is exactly why Kasich is polling so low. It's not because he's the only adult in the room. It's because he's a weak cnoservative and might as well be Democrat Light.

If you think Kasich is a RINO, then you aren't aware just how far your party as drifted. Kasich is a Dole-style Republican. I disagree with him on many things, but he's not a crack pot (except on education, where he's a mess).

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

The only problem is that you are wrong. Really wrong.

Reagan to Use Executive Orders to Bypass Congress - latimes

The problem is that you have bought into that narrative when it is factually incorrect.

Headline: Reagan to use executive orders to bypass Congress. I don't see anything in the article saying, "President Reagan has issued Executive Order ABC123 because Congress wouldn't give him what he wants."

All this goes back to the original argument of Ted Cruz not being willing to compromise. I get that you don't like Cruz and would never vote for the guy, but it's a little silly that you're sitting there predicting how Cruz or anyone would act as president.

Looking back to 2008 and 2009, none of us really had any idea what Obama was going to be like as president. Some radicals thought he was the savior, some radicals thought he was a Musilm from Kenya. Most of us in the middle sat back and said, "Well let's see what happens."

 

[pkt77242]

If you think Kasich is a RINO, then you aren't aware just how far your party as drifted. Kasich is a Dole-style Republican. I disagree with him on many things, but he's not a crack pot (except on education, where he's a mess).

So much truth
My favorite showing how much the Republicans have changed
Is Jeb Bush Too Liberal To Win The Republican Nomination In 2016? | FiveThirtyEight

Shows both Democrats and GOP in the House
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/06/02/this-astonishing-chart-shows-how-republicans-are-an-endangered-species/
Funny statement by Bob Dole about it
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2014/04/23/bob-dole-says-the-republican-party-is-way-more-conservative-than-it-was-even-20-years-ago-hes-right/

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Headline: Reagan to use executive orders to bypass Congress. I don't see anything in the article saying, "President Reagan has issued Executive Order ABC123 because Congress wouldn't give him what he wants."

All this goes back to the original argument of Ted Cruz not being willing to compromise. I get that you don't like Cruz and would never vote for the guy, but it's a little silly that you're sitting there predicting how Cruz or anyone would act as president.

Looking back to 2008 and 2009, none of us really had any idea what Obama was going to be like as president. Some radicals thought he was the savior, some radicals thought he was a Musilm from Kenya. Most of us in the middle sat back and said, "Well let's see what happens."

You, my friend, are not in the middle.

 

[phgreek]

The Affordable Care Act was a compromise position. Obama didn't start from single payer. He barely even pushed for a public option. He started from a Romney-style plan, one that was far more conservative than Nixon's (that commie pinko), that had previously been touted as a free market alternative to putting government in charge of health care.

No matter how loudly you say the opposite, Obama is a left of center pragmatist. Political polarization has been studied quite a lot. The data clearly show that Republicans have become far more conservative than Democrats have become liberal, particularly in the House. That's the major source of polarization in the country.

sure doesn't seem it...for instance why didn't Nixon do healthcare? Why wasn't Hillary care done. Why wouldn't Romney have pushed for Federal implementation? Put another way why wouldn't politicians who had thoughts of such a "program" not push it?

See the answer to this single question is pretty telling from where I sit with regard to the movement of things progressive or conservative.

...even when progressives were ballsy enough to try it...they had to lie on such a grand scheme, it will always be fraud in my view...and those who signed in the affirmative ...most knew. Hope I live long enough to see them held out for the reprobates they are. I know I'll do my part toward that end. Its hard to see "pragmatist" used when the word in this case is conniver.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

If you think Kasich is a RINO, then you aren't aware just how far your party as drifted. Kasich is a Dole-style Republican. I disagree with him on many things, but he's not a crack pot (except on education, where he's a mess).

Your party has trotted out for president a 74 year old socialist who just started combing his hair a few weeks ago and a woman who could be indicted by the FBI any day.

As for Kasich, you forgot to mention the massive expansion of Medicaid in Ohio by taking Obamacare money. In a few years Ohio's budget will explode because of it, and he'll most likely be out of office and won't have to face it. Some governors refused the Obamacare money. Kasich and Christie both took it.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

You, my friend, are not in the middle.

Haha hey I was in the middle and in the "wait and see" mode until he proclaimed "fundamental transformation" and started his presidency by going on that global apology tour.

 

[NDgradstudent]

So much truth
My favorite showing how much the Republicans have changed

So the GOP moved right after 1975...and won the next three Presidential elections, took back control of the House for the first time in 40 years, and now dominates state government in all but the hard-left states. So I'm not sure what your point is?

The GOP's move right didn't make it unelectable. It made the Washington Post, etc., upset.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

sure doesn't seem it...for instance why didn't Nixon do healthcare? Why wasn't Hillary care done. Why wouldn't Romney have pushed for Federal implementation? Put another way why wouldn't politicians who had thoughts of such a "program" not push it?

See the answer to this single question is pretty telling from where I sit with regard to the movement of things progressive or conservative.

...even when progressives were ballsy enough to try it...they had to lie on such a grand scheme, it will always be fraud in my view...and those who signed in the affirmative ...most knew. Hope I live long enough to see them held out for the reprobates they are. I know I'll do my part toward that end. Its hard to see "pragmatist" used when the word in this case is conniver.

Nixon was blocked on health care by some democrats, led by Ted Kennedy, who was pushing for something more liberal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_health_care_reform_in_the_United_States

In February 1974, Nixon proposed more comprehensive health insurance reform—an employer mandate to offer private health insurance and replacement of Medicaid by state-run health insurance plans available to all with income-based premiums and cost sharing.[27] In April 1974, Kennedy and Mills introduced a bill for near-universal national health insurance with benefits identical to the expanded Nixon plan, both of which were criticized by labor and senior citizens organizations because of their substantial cost sharing.

Romney didn't push for national implementation because it had become anathema once Obama was in favor of it.

ETA: Remember when Pawlenty gained ground by calling it "Obamneycare"? Romney had no choice but to run from his best political achievement at that point.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Your party has trotted out for president a 74 year old socialist who just started combing his hair a few weeks ago and a woman who could be indicted by the FBI any day.

As for Kasich, you forgot to mention the massive expansion of Medicaid in Ohio by taking Obamacare money. In a few years Ohio's budget will explode because of it, and he'll most likely be out of office and won't have to face it. Some governors refused the Obamacare money. Kasich and Christie both took it.

Reagan did far worse in Iran than Hillary did by making a stupid decision about her email account. People make it seem like she was illegally selling something to our enemies. That's literally what Reagan did.

And, to recap a major talking point, the Republican-led House investigation has several times found that the State Department did nothing wrong in Benghazi. Just wanted to remind everyone, given that it was a Friday evening news dump that hasn't been covered much by the Liberal MediaTM.

 

[pkt77242]

[B]Headline: Reagan to use executive orders to bypass Congress. I don't see anything in the article saying, "President Reagan has issued Executive Order ABC123 because Congress wouldn't give him what he wants."[/B]

All this goes back to the original argument of Ted Cruz not being willing to compromise. I get that you don't like Cruz and would never vote for the guy, but it's a little silly that you're sitting there predicting how Cruz or anyone would act as president.

Looking back to 2008 and 2009, none of us really had any idea what Obama was going to be like as president. Some radicals thought he was the savior, some radicals thought he was a Musilm from Kenya. Most of us in the middle sat back and said, "Well let's see what happens."

You really believe this? Mexico City Policy is one (which basically has gone back and forth since Reagan. Republicans institute it and Democratic presidents rescind it). That is just off the top of my head. It is pretty hard to find articles going back to the 80's to support these arguments (though I can find a bunch on GWB). During Reagan's presidency Democrats controlled the House the entire time. Do you really think that he issued 381 EO that Congress agreed? You don't think he went around Congress at all during those 381 orders? If so I got some ocean front property in AZ to sell you.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

You really believe this? Mexico City Policy is one (which basically has gone back and forth since Reagan. Republicans institute it and Democratic presidents rescind it). That is just off the top of my head. It is pretty hard to find articles going back to the 80's to support these arguments (though I can find a bunch on GWB). During Reagan's presidency Democrats controlled the House the entire time. Do you really think that he issued 381 EO that Congress agreed? You don't think he went around Congress at all during those 381 orders? If so I got some ocean front property in AZ to sell you.

 

[pkt77242]

So the GOP moved right after 1975...and won the next three Presidential elections, took back control of the House for the first time in 40 years, and now dominates state government in all but the hard-left states. So I'm not sure what your point is?

Then lost two, then one two and then lost 2. The Presidential argument is rough. The point is that the GOP has moved much farther right than the Democrats have moved to the left. Also the takeover of State government has been very recent not something from the 1970's. Finally, Kentucky and Colorado aren't hard-left states. Lets see how Republicans hold onto state governments over the next couple of elections.

The GOP's move right didn't make it unelectable. It made the Washington Post, etc., upset.

Lets see how the next couple of Presidential elections go. The truth is that Democrats struggle in turning out the vote in non-Presidential elections. The GOP should have had a cakewalk for the 2016 election but it is looking less and less like that is true.

 

[phgreek]

Nixon was blocked on health care by some democrats, led by Ted Kennedy, who was pushing for something more liberal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_health_care_reform_in_the_United_States



Romney didn't push for national implementation because it had become anathema once Obama was in favor of it.

ETA: Remember when Pawlenty gained ground by calling it "Obamneycare"? Romney had no choice but to run from his best political achievement at that point.

I know the history...You honestly think the people of this country would have accepted a major entitlement on something they did not even see as a priority. Hell regular healthcare as we know it came about as a perk...

The larger point is, the people generally define what is and is not considered a "wing" or AN "ist" action. Most before Mr Obama knew it was a no go. You can't claim he is center left because slightly less than 50% of the population like his choice here...in fact legislatively, <50% is non-starter. Who is left from those who supported the president legislatively??? I mean geez, if what you rammed through is opposed by more than half the population, AND then many of those responsible are ousted from office...how in gods name could you view the act as pragmatic or center?

Had he had 2/3 of the nation supporting him, but pure political opposition, I could see the rail road job he did. I know you'd like to think thats what happened...We both know thats not what happened here.

 

[NDgradstudent]

Then lost two, then one two and then lost 2. The Presidential argument is rough. The point is that the GOP has moved much farther right than the Democrats have moved to the left. Also the takeover of State government has been very recent not something from the 1970's. Finally, Kentucky and Colorado aren't hard-left states. Lets see how Republicans hold onto state governments over the next couple of elections.

What does it matter if the takeover of state governments is recent? Isn't your argument that the GOP has moved right, and stayed right? Both CO's and KY's legislatures are divided. Colorado is definitely moving left, and has been doing so for some time. As for Kentucky, it just elected an "unelectable" candidate governor, voting GOP for just the second time since 1970. The Democrats who hang around the legislature do so in many cases by positioning themselves as far to the right as the Republicans and drawing districts with radically uneven populations (this also explains why the WV legislature only just flipped Republican). Meanwhile, the pro-market agendas of GOP legislatures in MI, WI, OH, etc., do not seem to have harmed the GOP majorities in the legislatures of those states. The Democrats struggle there without be able to count on mandated union dues that go into their pockets. Voters in Michigan, in particular, can see what Democratic leadership does to cities, and have wisely chosen a different path.

Lets see how the next couple of Presidential elections go. The truth is that Democrats struggle in turning out the vote in non-Presidential elections. The GOP should have had a cakewalk for the 2016 election but it is looking less and less like that is true.

It's not the GOP's fault that its voters are more responsible at performing their civic duties. That's like saying that it isn't fair that ND's home games are always sold out and Purdue's aren't.

Elections are never cakewalks- and when the economy is comparatively strong, as it is now, voters don't automatically switch parties, even after 8 years with one party, particularly when government is divided.

 

[IrishLax]

SIAP:
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/WpKiP_gmDS8?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Obviously, misleading in some parts... but I thought it was hilarious.

Also hilarious:
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/qUGT30gGtiI?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>