BIG12 Allowed to Have Championship Game

[BobbyMac]

That's a good question. My guess is no, but it's probably close. Even if the answer were yes, it's probably not much more than 20% making the gains negligible and not worth the risk of awakening a sleeping giant in Houston. As a fan of CFB I'd love to see it but if I were a fan of UT, Baylor or TCU (and even Oklahoma and Oklahoma St), I'd say no thanks.

The danger though is what if the SEC decides to take NC State or Va Tech and take Houston as a travel partner for A&M? SEC now controls the entire SE portion of the state.

 

[woolybug25]

Y'all thought I was trippin' when I first said this, but you all know now... deep down... that ol' Bug always spits the truth!

So I will say it again....

We need to schedule Hawaii as our 13th game IN HAWAII. It opens up a Samoan pipeline and gives us a recruiting advantage in the rest of the country because they are all guaranteed four trips to Hawaii. We set it up as a big event and give our lads a nice way to finish the season before bowl season.

 

[palinurus]

The way I think it hurts ND is that we used to have an argument that the Big 12 champ didn't deserve to be in the top 4 ahead of us, if we could make an argument that the champ was a muddled champ -- eg, three one-loss teams who each beat one of the others. Baylor, TCU and, say, Texas all have one loss but Baylor>TCU, TCU>Texas, and Texas > Baylor. In such a scenario, a one loss ND could say, "hell, there's no clear cut champ; go with us!" And because of ND's stroke (meaning, "popularity"), the committee might agree.

Now, there will be no debate -- they'll have a defined champ -- AND they will have played a 13th game, which I think cuts both ways, but the committee apparently views as a positive for a playoff contender.

In such a situation, ND must hope that no Power 5 conference champ has a better record than ND, otherwise they fail the committee standard that an independent team must be "unequivocally" one of the best four teams. Teams that have one loss AND played an extra game (a title game, no less, and won it), will always have an advantage over 12-game, no-conference-champ ND. Before we had to beat out four power 5 champs; we could argue vs a no-clear-champ Big 12. With this development, we can't.

 

[IrishLion]

Y'all thought I was trippin' when I first said this, but you all know now... deep down... that ol' Bug always spits the truth!

So I will say it again....

We need to schedule Hawaii as our 13th game IN HAWAII. It opens up a Samoan pipeline and gives us a recruiting advantage in the rest of the country because they are all guaranteed four trips to Hawaii. We set it up as a big event and give our lads a nice way to finish the season before bowl season.

I 100% support this.

The question is if Hawaii is cool with getting beat down every year, and how you fit the game into the schedule. The game can't be during week 15, in case Hawaii plays in their conference championship. If you play it after that, everyone will spin that its an asshole move for conflicting with Army-Navy. If you play it during the regular season, you eliminate a bye week, which in some years might leave you with no bye week.

 

[Irish YJ]

I 100% support this.

The question is if Hawaii is cool with getting beat down every year, and how you fit the game into the schedule. The game can't be during week 15, in case Hawaii plays in their conference championship. If you play it after that, everyone will spin that its an asshole move for conflicting with Army-Navy. If you play it during the regular season, you eliminate a bye week, which in some years might leave you with no bye week.

Pretty sure they experience this already....

Hawaii 2015 Schedule - Rainbow Warriors Home and Away - ESPN

 

[kmoose]

I heard someone on ESPN earlier today saying teams like Cincy, BYU and Houston just lost some of their leverage. Expansion = more slices of the revenue pie = less $$$ for current members.

That depends on how much more $$ expansion means. I would rather have a 1/6th share of $100M, than to have a 1/4 share of $10 million.

 

[IrishLion]

That depends on how much more $$ expansion means. I would rather have a 1/6th share of $100M, than to have a 1/4 share of $10 million.

Yeah I'm biased as a UC ticket holder, and I know nothing about the big business of college football on TV... but I gotta think that having the Greater Cincinnati TV market would be a big draw/addition for the Big XII, unless they truly believe that the revenue wouldn't surpass splitting the pie another way.

The stadium is an issue due to its size/attendance, but I think UC fans would come out in droves if they got to see Oklahoma/Texas every other year in Cincy. This city (and surrounding area) was nuts back when BK had the machine running well.

 

[phork]

Pretty sure they experience this already....

Hawaii 2015 Schedule - Rainbow Warriors Home and Away - ESPN

OSU scored more points on us then them......

Also isn't Hawaii close to losing that team?

 

[Irish YJ]

OSU scored more points on us then them......

Also isn't Hawaii close to losing that team?

That Rainbow Warrior defense though.

 

[MNIrishman]

OSU scored more points on us then them......

Also isn't Hawaii close to losing that team?

Unfortunately, some teams are best during the season (us) and some are best during the postseason (osu). A regular game against ND could do wonders for Hawaii's bottom line. Unrelated: What about the first game of the season instead of the last? Didn't USC do it that way a few years back? Alternatively, we could have an out clause if Hawaii is selected for their CCG and play during CCG weekend. I just don't know that that would help us. I would rather our last data point be P5.

 

[koonja]

Volunteering to fly to Hawaii every year is a bad idea imo. The committee doesn't really give credit for beating a cupcake. And using it as a selling point as '4 free trips to hawaii' is an obvious blueprint for a major let down to end the year on. Not to mention injuries.

Our last game should continue to be played in Cali.

 

[Irish2155]

Yeah I'm biased as a UC ticket holder, and I know nothing about the big business of college football on TV... but I gotta think that having the Greater Cincinnati TV market would be a big draw/addition for the Big XII, unless they truly believe that the revenue wouldn't surpass splitting the pie another way.

The stadium is an issue due to its size/attendance, but I think UC fans would come out in droves if they got to see Oklahoma/Texas every other year in Cincy. This city (and surrounding area) was nuts back when BK had the machine running well.

Paul Brown might be an option for conference games? The B12 would be all over that.

 

[ThePiombino]

Y'all thought I was trippin' when I first said this, but you all know now... deep down... that ol' Bug always spits the truth!

So I will say it again....

We need to schedule Hawaii as our 13th game IN HAWAII. It opens up a Samoan pipeline and gives us a recruiting advantage in the rest of the country because they are all guaranteed four trips to Hawaii. We set it up as a big event and give our lads a nice way to finish the season before bowl season.

I don't believe the NCAA would allow it.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

BIG12 Allowed to Have Championship Game

I don't believe the NCAA would allow it.

Not to mention Hawaii is an eyelash away from not having a football program anymore. The idea is awesome though.

 

[ThePiombino]

Not to mention Hawaii is an eyelash away from not having a football program anymore. The idea is awesome though.

Agreed. Anyone know why Army/Navy is allowed? Is that only their 12th game of the season or did they acquire some sort of waiver?

 

[IrishLion]

I don't believe the NCAA would allow it.

I think they would. The current incentive for teams to play AT Hawaii is that they get to add a 13th game. Otherwise it would be difficult for Hawaii to schedule home non-conference games, because no one would want to make the trip during the year.

Agreed. Anyone know why Army/Navy is allowed? Is that only their 12th game of the season or did they acquire some sort of waiver?

It is their 12th game. They decided to make it a "stand-alone" game in 2009 to be played after conference championship weekend as a way to honor the tradition. The military academies usually have their bowl slots decided before the rest of the country because of their unique contracts, so the results of the game essentially don't matter at that point.

(If they ever DID matter in terms of the playoff, the committee simply announces their final rankings a week later.)

 

[dales5050]

In related news....

Even with being allowed to have a CCG, Oklahoma President David Boren wants the Big12 to go to 12 teams.

"Boren wants the Big 12 to expand to 12 teams, he wants the league to fold Texas’ Longhorn Network and other third-tier properties into a Big 12 Network, and he wants a conference championship game. All at once, in that order, and immediately."

John E. Hoover: David Boren tired of Big 12's 'little brother' status - Tulsa World: Sports Columnist John E. Hoover



I agree with others that the B12 getting a CCG hurts ND. Now it feels like ND would have to be 12-0 to get in the top 4 rather than a strong 11-1. But if this is the price to pay...so be it.


If you really think about it, getting to the playoffs is about winning your BIG games. If ND would have beaten Clemson and Stanford this year, along with Navy, Temple and USC...I really don't think the rest of the schedule would have mattered at all.

I think the path forward is pretty clear for Swarbrick.

- Continue to play USC/Stanford on the CA rotation.

- Continue to play the 5 ACC teams

- Move to 1 rather than 2 big games in the fall. For example, play either Texas or Michigan State in Sept of 16 rather than both. Hell, lock in Michigan again for every Sept for the next 15 years or whenever the current playoff system runs to.

- Sync the ACC schedule with the home or away big fall game. So on the years you're playing 3 road ACC games, the big fall game is home.

- Combine the Navy game and the Shamrock series into a single game. This is the biggest for me. In exchange for Navy agreeing to be the away team every year, the Shamrock game moves to Navy town locations rather than unique locations like Boston. I would not have a problem if it was always either in San Diego or Jacksonville....

The above would give ND 4 home games right out of the gate. The Shamrock Series/Navy commitment is taken care of and ND would pretty much be guaranteed the necessary power games to make claim for a playoff spot. Take the remaining 3 games and play them at home.

It also could be spun as a 'conference run' that an SEC team plays w/o the CCG. I mean if you had USC, Stanford, Michigan, 5 ACC on the slot every year...odds are that would stack up to any division out there at least and best most anyways.

 

[ThePiombino]

I think they would. The current incentive for teams to play AT Hawaii is that they get to add a 13th game. Otherwise it would be difficult for Hawaii to schedule home non-conference games, because no one would want to make the trip during the year.



It is their 12th game. They decided to make it a "stand-alone" game in 2009 to be played after conference championship weekend as a way to honor the tradition. The military academies usually have their bowl slots decided before the rest of the country because of their unique contracts, so the results of the game essentially don't matter at that point.

(If they ever DID matter in terms of the playoff, the committee simply announces their final rankings a week later.)

What reason do we have to believe the NCAA would allow us to add a 13th, non-CCG game to our schedule tho?

 

[irishff1014]

Texas Tech AD Kirby Hocutt selected as new chairman of CFP selection committee

I wonder how this affects things?

 

[beryirish]

If ND was forced to join the ACC for football I don't think I would see a problem with scheduling.

8 game conference schedule
+Navy
+USC
+Stanford
+12th game cupcake...

Not independent but ND is ND and they can still recruit nationally especially since they will keep the two Cali games.
If this is what it takes to have no question about being considered for the playoffs then i'm for it...the nice thing is that ND doesn't have to throw the papers up in the air and run around the office all crazy trying to find a conference. The ACC has a spot waiting for them if they want.

 

[woolybug25]

I don't believe the NCAA would allow it.

The waiver for a 13th game is already there.

The Hawaii Exemption

There is no reason for them to deny us, but let USC do it. The Hawaii program, which has been struggling to survive, needs a premier program to bolster their schedule. They also wouldn't have to deal with the elephant in the room... Notre Dame plays less games then the rest of college football. What reasoning do you see them denying us?

Not to mention Hawaii is an eyelash away from not having a football program anymore. The idea is awesome though.

As I wrote above, that could be a real positive for their program. Nobody puts butts in a seat like Notre Dame. They would sell out at least one game every season. More revenue for their program, exposure for the MWC and lets the NCAA avoid potential issues with Notre Dame playing 12 games. No brainer.

 

[ThePiombino]

The waiver for a 13th game is already there.

The Hawaii Exemption

There is no reason for them to deny us, but let USC do it. The Hawaii program, which has been struggling to survive, needs a premier program to bolster their schedule. They also wouldn't have to deal with the elephant in the room... Notre Dame plays less games then the rest of college football. What reasoning do you see them denying us?

Holy shit! I honestly had no idea there was an actual rule in place. I just remember hearing that 13th games were not allowed unless they are a CCG. This is the 1st I'm hearing of an actual exemption. So I guess the question is why the F(*&*& aren't we doing this? Is it because of conflict with class schedules?

 

[IrishLion]

As I wrote above, that could be a real positive for their program. Nobody puts butts in a seat like Notre Dame. They would sell out at least one game every season. More revenue for their program, exposure for the MWC and lets the NCAA avoid potential issues with Notre Dame playing 12 games. No brainer.

When do you play the game though? Start the season a week early? Eliminate a bye-week, meaning there could be some seasons with no bye? Play it the week after conference championship games and risk looking like d*cks for stepping on Army-Navy?

(I may be misunderstanding the bye week issue, but I thought there were some years where ND has two bye weeks, and other years where they have just one.)

 

[MNIrishman]

When do you play the game though? Start the season a week early? Eliminate a bye-week, meaning there could be some seasons with no bye? Play it the week after conference championship games and risk looking like d*cks for stepping on Army-Navy?

(I may be misunderstanding the bye week issue, but I thought there were some years where ND has two bye weeks, and other years where they have just one.)

Start it early and catch the audience when they're starving for football instead of just watching premier games

 

[IrishLion]

Start it early and catch the audience when they're starving for football instead of just watching premier games

This is probably where I lean, but it also means Hawaii has to be cool with getting beat down to start the season every year, rather than getting to open with a decent game and/or a cupcake as their own "warm up." I also don't know if the NCAA would actually even allow it, unless it's part of the Hawaii-specific waiver... I guess I should look at that document.

 

[BobbyMac]

If ND was forced to join the ACC for football I don't think I would see a problem with scheduling.

8 game conference schedule
+Navy
+USC
+Stanford
+12th game cupcake...

Not independent but ND is ND and they can still recruit nationally especially since they will keep the two Cali games.
If this is what it takes to have no question about being considered for the playoffs then i'm for it...the nice thing is that ND doesn't have to throw the papers up in the air and run around the office all crazy trying to find a conference. The ACC has a spot waiting for them if they want.

The scenario that would force the Irish into full ACC membership would dictate the ACC has 18 or 20 teams. It starts with Texas leaving for another conference and then the PAC, B1G and SEC divide the remaining Big 12 teams followed by selecting the remaining teams from the AAC and Mountain West based on market and what they bring to the table economically. You would then have a 9 or 10 game conference schedule and that changes things.

 

[phork]

Hawaii would have to be game 13 unless you schedule a bye right at the end of the season. Stanford/USC could be in PAC12 CCG.

 

[BobbyMac]

I got an idea that copies ESPN's Bracket Buster concept.

ND can make an agreement with any / all Power 5 Conferences on an agreed to rotation to play the third place team as a last game.

I would nominate Anaheim for the location of the game which is set up for football after baseball ends. Everybody loves the OC, lots of touristy things to do. Vegas could be another destination that would appeal to travelers.

Just spit ballin'

 

[ThePiombino]

I got an idea that copies ESPN's Bracket Buster concept.

ND can make an agreement with any / all Power 5 Conferences on an agreed to rotation to play the third place team as a last game.

I would nominate Anaheim for the location of the game which is set up for football after baseball ends. Everybody loves the OC, lots of touristy things to do. Vegas could be another destination that would appeal to travelers.

Just spit ballin'

Pass. Would prefer the Hawaii layup instead, thanks. The point of a 13th game is to stay relevant in the CFP race, not add another hurdle.

 

[Cali_domer]

Interesting Boren statement in regards to GoR:

Now, if that doesn’t work and we feel we can find somebody to test that, then we’d have to consider that. I would say it’s a significant legal problem. But it may not be, until it’s tested, we don’t know if it’s gonna be 100 percent binding or not. I think we’re all operating under the assumption that it is binding. And I think other schools are now, too, and they’re not willing to risk the buyout provisions they might face, the amount of money they might have to put on the table it they did try to leave. And so we’ll be looking at schools that will not have that problem — at least initially — for expansion.

I think the grant of rights was very important in saving the Big 12 Conference and making sure everyone was dialed into it. But it’s not a 100 percent insurance policy. It greatly strengthens the stability of the conference and the likelihood it will continue with its current members—hopefully more. But it’s not yet 100 percent, because there have not been adequate legal tests to say with certainty. I talk to lawyers a lot about it. I think it’s strong enough to go on the assumption that, ‘Let’s look at possible other schools to join us that don’t have that problem.’ And many of them, you’d just have to say psychologically that people that have signed away their rights like that in other conferences are probably pretty reluctant to try to leave those conferences.