Criteria Thread for IE Hall of Notre Dame Men

[gkIrish]

Does suspended mean suspended from school or suspended from playing?

Like Tuitt missed one game due to not going to class or whatever. Would that automatically eliminate a player from consideration?

As the question is written, it would.

The way I look at it is people should vote "eligible" if they would make any exception whatsoever for a suspension. I can add that to the OP.

 

[IrishLion]

I don't think it's ridiculous. A lot of people place a high level on importance on getting a degree. I mean we spend hours and hours talking about why ND > ____ school because of the degree.

Yes, a lot of people might. But others might be able to look past that in favor of other factors. But we are about to eliminate any chance at even having that debate about certain players.

 

[greyhammer90]

As the question is written, it would.

The way I look at it is people should vote "eligible" if they would make any exception whatsoever for a suspension. I can add that to the OP.

Yeah that seems a bit over the top. A four year starter, All-American, ND graduate misses one game his freshman year because he was late to a team meeting and he's ineligible.

I think it would be fine if it was suspended from attending the university, like an Ishaq or KVR situation. But missing one game when it hasn't affected your standing the with the actual university at all is harsh IMO.

 

[gkIrish]

Yes, a lot of people might. But others might be able to look past that in favor of other factors. But we are about to eliminate any chance at even having that debate about certain players.

If over 50% of people would not vote for a player if he did not get his degree how is that player ever going to receive 75%?

Yeah that seems a bit over the top. A four year starter, All-American, ND graduate misses one game his freshman year because he was late to a team meeting and he's ineligible.

I think it would be fine if it was suspended from attending the university, like an Ishaq or KVR situation. But missing one game when it hasn't affected your standing the with the actual university at all is harsh IMO.

I agree with you (I voted eligible) but this is why we are having the vote, because not everyone agrees.. If the vote is closer I am definitely willing to keep such players eligible but as of now I don't think it's justified.

 

[bkess8]

So when are we kicking this off and who's the first person to get nominated for this experiment?

 

[gkIrish]

So when are we kicking this off and who's the first person to get nominated for this experiment?

This poll closes tomorrow afternoon. Then I suppose we will get nominations going.

 

[bkess8]

This poll closes tomorrow afternoon. Then I suppose we will get nominations going.

Awesome thanks!

 

[ulukinatme]

This is getting kind of silly now. Websites, some of which are rather respected and not affiliated with fans, throw out the "Notre Dame Man" title all the time. I'm not sure why this has to be such a formal process. Suspensions shouldn't be disqualified, expulsions shouldn't be included though imo. Got to remember that kids will still be kids sometimes, missing a quarter or a game for an offense isn't a big deal and Notre Dame is stricter than most. I could see Jerry Tillery becoming a fine ambassador for the university when all is said and done, would you disqualify him for missing the Fiesta Bowl?

 

[NDohio]

If over 50% of people would not vote for a player if he did not get his degree how is that player ever going to receive 75%?



I agree with you (I voted eligible) but this is why we are having the vote, because not everyone agrees.. If the vote is closer I am definitely willing to keep such players eligible but as of now I don't think it's justified.

I guess the wording of the question may have thrown me, but I took it as suspended from SCHOOL not as suspended from playing time. That's why I voted the way I did...

 

[bkess8]

I guess the wording of the question may have thrown me, but I took it as suspended from SCHOOL not as suspended from playing time. That's why I voted the way I did...

I interpreted the question the same way.

 

[gkIrish]

I interpreted the question the same way.

I guess the wording of the question may have thrown me, but I took it as suspended from SCHOOL not as suspended from playing time. That's why I voted the way I did...

I mean the question says "1 Full Game" so I don't know how that can be misinterpreted.

I'm not in charge of the rules, I am just trying to enforce them. If we want to change the rules then we can do that.

 

[NDohio]

Guess my reading comprehension suffered the Monday blues yesterday...

 

[Irish Insanity]

That's crazy to me.

The fact that Jaylon Smith can't be nominated is just ridiculous.

Being a ND man without completing your degree is like being the President of the US without being born here. It's just not right.

 

[IrishLion]

If over 50% of people would not vote for a player if he did not get his degree how is that player ever going to receive 75%?

Perhaps because they might read other posters' reasoning in the voting thread, and decide "you know what, he doesn't have his degree, but these other factors surpass that in this case."

I'm not saying it WOULD happen that way. But I think it's silly for a message board to not offer that chance lol.

 

[ulukinatme]

Being a ND man without completing your degree is like being the President of the US without being born here. It's just not right.

I agree. Plenty of great players come through ND. Not many as good as Jaylon, but "Notre Dame Man" shouldn't be judged on athleticism, athleticism should have nothing to do with it. It should be about being an ambassador to the community or overcoming some hardship to success. How can you call yourself a Notre Dame Man if you're not a graduate? If he comes back and completes it, sure, put him up for nomination. As it stands he just happens to be a very good player that played for ND.

 

[greyhammer90]

I mean the question says "1 Full Game" so I don't know how that can be misinterpreted.

It's fine that you feel that way but you've had three posters specifically say that it is subject to misinterpretation. I caught that it could be either way, but was confused by it. I wouldn't call what happened to Max Redfield a "suspension". That's the rub with the question, not the "1 Full Game" language.

 

[koonja]

I feel like we're making it too complicated and not creating a safety net to catch the anomalies. The only 2 stipulations should be minimum votes and % of vote needed, IMO. If people want to decline to vote no because a guy didn't get his degree, so be it. If they want to vote yes because they don't care, same diff. Let the people speak. Free Pat.

 

[NDohio]

I feel like we're making it too complicated and not creating a safety net to catch the anomalies. The only 2 stipulations should be minimum votes and % of vote needed, IMO. If people want to decline to vote no because a guy didn't get his degree, so be it. If they want to vote yes because they don't care, same diff. Let the people speak.

Yeah, I think I am leaning this way.

Free Pat.

No

 

[gkIrish]

It's fine that you feel that way but you've had three posters specifically say that it is subject to misinterpretation. I caught that it could be either way, but was confused by it. I wouldn't call what happened to Max Redfield a "suspension". That's the rub with the question, not the "1 Full Game" language.

Perhaps because they might read other posters' reasoning in the voting thread, and decide "you know what, he doesn't have his degree, but these other factors surpass that in this case."

I'm not saying it WOULD happen that way. But I think it's silly for a message board to not offer that chance lol.

Like I said, I don't make the rules. So if we want to just open this up to anyone that's fine with me.

 

[beryirish]

The way I voted:

Undergrad degree - No
Reason: The person can make a positive impact on the field and in the classroom and around campus and off campus and not achieve their degree due to them leaving early for the NFL.

Suspension - eligible.
Look at Golson. He was suspended. He accepted his wrong. He could have booked it but he came back with no ill will towards the school and had a Heisman campaign half way through the season.

Min Vote: 75%
Like baseball Hall of Fame and i'm sure others.

30 Votes Required before poll closes.
Sometimes people just read and don't interact.

Poll open for one week.
If we put in a poll, a week should be enough time for people to check in on the site and vote. Real life can get in the way during a 48 hour span.

Vote Public - Yes
I want to see what all you beaches voted so we can rag on each other

 

[beryirish]

So when are we kicking this off and who's the first person to get nominated for this experiment?

Rudy, of course.

 

[beryirish]

I'm ok with this but I also thought when we were first discussing this it was just an open forum vote.

Here's the player.

Is he a NDM or not.

75% gets you in the club.

 

[ulukinatme]

Suspension - eligible.
Look at Golson. He was suspended. He accepted his wrong. He could have booked it but he came back with no ill will towards the school and had a Heisman campaign half way through the season.

Wait, you're not making a case for Golson to be a Notre Dame man, are you? He didn't exactly show great leadership, he had the academic issue that got him expelled, and he took the selfish route out (Not saying any of us wouldn't have done that in his shoes). When I think Notre Dame man though, I think a selfless person that was team first. I don't get that with Golson, especially at the end of his career with us.

If Everett would have stayed and played in different packages with Zaire, and even helped Zaire grow into the position like Danny Spond did for Jaylon it would be a totally different story I think.

 

[Cackalacky]

Wait, you're not making a case for Golson to be a Notre Dame man, are you? He didn't exactly show great leadership, he had the academic issue that got him expelled, and he took the selfish route out (Not saying any of us wouldn't have done that in his shoes). When I think Notre Dame man though, I think a selfless person that was team first. I don't get that with Golson, especially at the end of his career with us.

If Everett would have stayed and played in different packages with Zaire, and even helped Zaire grow into the position like Danny Spond did for Jaylon it would be a totally different story I think.

Mathias Farley is my bell weather

 

[gkIrish]

Like I said, I don't make the rules. So if we want to just open this up to anyone that's fine with me.

Because the minimum vote % for "induction" is going to be at least 75% I say unless questions 1 or 2 above get 75% of the vote we will not prevent nomination due to those circumstances.

That seem fair?

 

[Irish#1]

I'd like to have a vote on whether this is something I couldn't possible care less about.

Shut up newby.

 

[beryirish]

Wait, you're not making a case for Golson to be a Notre Dame man, are you? He didn't exactly show great leadership, he had the academic issue that got him expelled, and he took the selfish route out (Not saying any of us wouldn't have done that in his shoes). When I think Notre Dame man though, I think a selfless person that was team first. I don't get that with Golson, especially at the end of his career with us.

If Everett would have stayed and played in different packages with Zaire, and even helped Zaire grow into the position like Danny Spond did for Jaylon it would be a totally different story I think.

I personally wouldn't call him selfish - He got expelled. He could have said ok i'm outta here. That would have been selfish (Bryant).

Instead he waited out his year - he trained with whitefield or whatever to get better and he came back to ND. I would consider that "knowing he let his teammates, coaches, and teachers down and vowed to be back and be better."

You can't fault a player who got his degree at ND and knowingly will be passed up in the depth chart and went somewhere else for his 5th year to better his chances and be put on display for NFL scouts. Heck I would almost consider that his interview for the NFL.

 

[Irish#1]

I think you should post a new set of names once a week. Include one from the 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's, 00's and 1X. Plenty of names to keep this thread active for a long time.

For instance
Week 1 everyone votes on:
1960's John Huarte
1970's Joe Montana
1980's Tim Brown
1990's Rick Meier
2000's Brady Quinn
201X's Zack Martin

Week 2 everyone votes on:
1960's Jack Snow
1970's Vegas Ferguson
1980's Alan Pinkett
1990's Rocket Ismail
2000's Brady Quinn
201X's Manti Teo

 

[ulukinatme]

I personally wouldn't call him selfish - He got expelled. He could have said ok i'm outta here. That would have been selfish (Bryant).

Instead he waited out his year - he trained with whitefield or whatever to get better and he came back to ND. I would consider that "knowing he let his teammates, coaches, and teachers down and vowed to be back and be better."

You can't fault a player who got his degree at ND and knowingly will be passed up in the depth chart and went somewhere else for his 5th year to better his chances and be put on display for NFL scouts. Heck I would almost consider that his interview for the NFL.

Nothing was set in stone, Zaire wasn't named the starter coming out of Spring ball. It was selfish of him, especially given the fact he didn't even tell the coaches he was leaving, they had to find out through the other players. That's like breaking up with your girlfriend and having your buddies tell her. You can also look at the USC game. I get that he may have been a little down, having gotten benched. Maybe he wasn't in the mood to help coach up Zaire in that circumstance. He could have at least been a leader and helped keep the offense focused and motivated. Leaders don't sit on the bench by themselves though. Notre Dame men put the team above themselves, they don't separate themselves from the team.

 

[kmoose]

If over 50% of people would not vote for a player if he did not get his degree how is that player ever going to receive 75%?

Because no two players are the same. I would vote for Jerome Bettis, despite his lack of a degree, because he was a kid who came from a rough set of circumstances, persevered, and probably in no small part due to the influence of Notre Dame, became by most all accounts a model citizen......... and a Hall of Fame football player.

While I don't have anything bad to say about Darius Walker, I would NOT vote for him because he doesn't have a degree and I don't think he has done anything special enough to cause me to overlook that.