Missouri Football Players to Strike

kmoose

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Remember, these people forced a man out of a job.

Just ridiculous. We're going to gather and protest in a public area, but no one can come into that public area unless we say so! THIS is the mentality that people have been supporting? I can understand supporting the principle of ridding a campus of racism, but not by supporting these clowns.
 

IrishinSyria

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The job of a university President is not to hold students' hands because somebody said something racist to them. The demands they issued were so extraordinary -mandatory white guilt classes for all students, racial quotas for faculty, etc.- that "taking their concerns seriously" would have required the adoption of unjust and destructive policies.



The shrieking racists elected a black student body President.



We know that plenty of players, including black players, thought the entire thing was ridiculous. Pinkel and the AD today said that there was no desire to get anybody fired. The tweet demanded that the President resign or be fired- did nobody tell Pinkel et al what they were signing up for?

The football players effectively fired the President and Chancellor. Mizzou is a football team with a university attached.



Well, they're good at forming functioning families and communities. In contemporary America that's a considerable achievement.

Most D-1 universities are football teams with universities attached these days. This is exactly why the Ivy leagues and Chicago bowed out of top-tier competition. You're a libertarian, right? What just happened was the market at work. The football players discovered they had more value than the University president.

But the rest of your post misses the point. The list of demands only came at the end of the process. Leading up to it was a growing sense that black student concerns were being ignored. Like I said, I have no idea if Mizzou was unusually racist or not, but I do know for a fact that the president failed long before any demand was issued. Someone who was actively engaged with student groups and in touch with student concerns would never have encountered those demands in the first place.
 

T Town Tommy

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I am not judging here but it seems to me there are several posters here who have claimed anger or dismay at the perceived assault of their Christian religion at the hand of the majority secularists in the past.... interesting the shoe can't be viewed from the other foot.

Over 80% of those persecuted and killed in this world for their religious beliefs are Christians. To even try and make any relative comparison to the apparent situation at Mizzou with that is really pretty low.
 
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Cackalacky

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Over 80% of those persecuted and killed in this world for their religious beliefs are Christians. To even try and make any relative comparison to the apparent situation at Mizzou with that is really pretty low.

I was more talking about the Starbucks coffee cup Christians, gay rights marriage equality etc...but apparently there was a time in this country where white Christians were treated the way blacks were.?
 

Grahambo

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I was more talking about the Starbucks coffee cup Christians, gay rights marriage equality etc...but apparently there was a time in this country where white Christians were treated the way blacks were.?

What's a Starbucks Christian?
 

kmoose

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Again, I don't think it's "woe is me" because it's largely fans and sports media asking the questions... maybe former players too, who are just starting to experience the downsides of the game.

I think the gladiatorial games are a good example- they wouldn't be any (or at least, much) less problematic if you could prove that the gladiators loved them, that it provided them with social mobility, etc. The concerns are larger than that- they're about the morality of a society that watches men kill each other for sport. The more we learn about TBI, the more it starts to seem like we have to ask ourselves similar questions about football. It lacks the immediacy, but the damage can be real and permanent.

You don't have to explain to me about TBI, I've survived a brain aneurysm that didn't rupture, but it did tear and start leaking. Damn near killed me. And it doesn't get any more T in TBI than that.
 

T Town Tommy

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I was more talking about the Starbucks coffee cup Christians but apparently there was a time in this country where white Christians were treated the way blacks were.?

Again cacky... any comparison of the two is ridiculous. And Christians on college campuses today probably face as much, or more, discrimination from others, including the very faculties employed by the universities. Maybe the same people who threatened to strike can band together and ask for Pinkel's resignation since he has such a pitiful track record of dealing with problem football players. You see cack... it all sets a very dangerous precedent.
 

T Town Tommy

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The ones all pissed off about Starbucks red coffee cups because "Merry Christmas".

Have no problem with Starbucks. Their CEO has made his beliefs very clear. And the main reason I don't buy coffee from his stores... besides the fact that his coffee sucks.
 
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Cackalacky

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Again cacky... any comparison of the two is ridiculous. And Christians on college campuses today probably face as much, or more, discrimination from others, including the very faculties employed by the universities. Maybe the same people who threatened to strike can band together and ask for Pinkel's resignation since he has such a pitiful track record of dealing with problem football players. You see cack... it all sets a very dangerous precedent.

Well dude that is my whole point. The ones complaining about losing their religious freedoms and they are very vocal and political....can't see or choose not to commiserate with a minority who is also being as egregiously discriminated against and has been in this country for 400 years. I find that very interesting. Particularly because the Christians who are currently complaining about their discrimination use the same logic to air their grievances that was used to justify discrimination and segregation for blacks.
 

connor_in

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Just ridiculous. We're going to gather and protest in a public area, but no one can come into that public area unless we say so! THIS is the mentality that people have been supporting? I can understand supporting the principle of ridding a campus of racism, but not by supporting these clowns.

Was on Twitter and there are a number of sports journalists who are tweeting about that video. Basically, the lady blocking in sunglasses is a faculty member who just yesterday tweeted that they wanted national attention, their story to get out. Now she blocks the press they wanted in an open public area of a public university.
 

BeauBenken

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Remember, these people forced a man out of a job.

Kinda confused as to why, as protesters, you wouldn't want media coverage. That makes pretty much zero sense.
 
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Cackalacky

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I have made all these points before but it seems to not make any sense to anyone else.... I'm out. Haha.
 

Rhode Irish

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The job of a university President is not to hold students' hands because somebody said something racist to them. The demands they issued were so extraordinary -mandatory white guilt classes for all students, racial quotas for faculty, etc.- that "taking their concerns seriously" would have required the adoption of unjust and destructive policies.

I think you're mistaken here. I believe the demands were issued in response to the perceived lack of appropriate response on the part of the President to a number of incidents that occurred in a short period of time that collectively left the black students on campus to feel that they weren't valued by the rest of the community. The job of the President isn't to hold anyone's hand, but it is to oversee and promote an environment that is inclusive and welcoming and safe for everybody.


The shrieking racists elected a black student body President.

This is obviously lazy logic, because it presupposes that in order for there to a be racial issue at the school a majority of the people who vote in a student government election would have to be racist. It only takes a very small number of people to create an atmosphere where a certain group could feel targeted and unsafe.



We know that plenty of players, including black players, thought the entire thing was ridiculous. Pinkel and the AD today said that there was no desire to get anybody fired. The tweet demanded that the President resign or be fired- did nobody tell Pinkel et al what they were signing up for?

The football players effectively fired the President and Chancellor. Mizzou is a football team with a university attached.

I'm not sure I agree that all of this protest activity was necessary or warranted, so I'm not surprised many people on campus don't agree with it. That doesn't automatically make the protest wrong. Also, the football team did not start this, they just participated in something that was going on campus wide. I think football players (or athletes in any sport) have the right to act on their conscience and shouldn't be prohibited from doing so just because they play a sport. Maybe their joining in was the tipping point, maybe it would have happened anyways, but certainly this was much more than the football team. I don't think you can pin the result solely on them.


Like I said above, I'm not even sure that I agree with the protestors at Mizzou or the way they are going about having their grievances addressed. It's a pretty complicated situation and I don't know if I have a good enough command of all the facts to take a position one way or the other. But I do know that it is remarkably easy to predict how the majority of posters here will come down on any of these issues, and I'm really taken aback by the tone-deafness and lack of concern for other people's experiences that is generally on display here - not just in this thread but on a pretty regular basis whenever these types of subjects are discussed. It seems like the world only exists to many here as you see it from your own perspective; there is virtually no attempt at empathy or compassion for people with different experiences. For a group of intelligent people, there is a startling lack of self awareness in how many here react to these types of stories, and an equally startling amount of anger and animus directed at people who look, act or think differently than most of the people on this board.
 

pkt77242

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The job of a university President is not to hold students' hands because somebody said something racist to them. The demands they issued were so extraordinary -mandatory white guilt classes for all students, racial quotas for faculty, etc.- that "taking their concerns seriously" would have required the adoption of unjust and destructive policies.



The shrieking racists elected a black student body President.



We know that plenty of players, including black players, thought the entire thing was ridiculous. Pinkel and the AD today said that there was no desire to get anybody fired. The tweet demanded that the President resign or be fired- did nobody tell Pinkel et al what they were signing up for?

The football players effectively fired the President and Chancellor. Mizzou is a football team with a university attached.



Well, they're good at forming functioning families and communities. In contemporary America that's a considerable achievement.

What? Just because a black person was elected President of the student body doesn't mean that the campus doesn't have a problem with racism. That is just a stupid argument.
 

GoIrish41

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I cannot believe we have become a nation that approves this type of action. I blame the media for this crap.

How is it that whites can be regarded as racist, yet every movement over the past 2 years has its foundation built off of racism?!?! #blacklivesmatter? uhmm, #alllivesmatter

Maybe all the white football/basketball players in college and NFL/NBA should start a strike so that whites get equal opportunity to make a team/earn a scholarship. Guess what, the "BEST" candidate is given the opportunity! Same thing goes in the workforce. I am sure there are some examples of racism that exists in places (likely nepotism is worse), but for the most part, employers are hiring the best possible candidates for the roles they are hiring for.

Just cannot believe that this came about like this.. This is just the tip of the iceberg.. Now that the desired results have been achieved, this garbage will continue all over the place.

For the record, I despise racism. I like people for people, regardless of color, but I haven't read anything that leads me to believe that the president was racist. Maybe he was, and got what he deserved, but the tactics for pulling this off was built off a foundation of racism itself.

It isn't some new thing that people band together to oppose a perceived injustice. In fact, I would argue that it is the singular thing that has helped us to become a great nation. Moreover, it is often the only tactic available to bring a needed change. The women's suffrage movement was met with stark opposition, but eventually we allowed that half of our citizenry to take part in our government. Martin Luther King followed Ghandi's lead and led African Americans down a path that included nonviolent protests and the breaking of unjust laws often resulting in arrests or worse at the hands of public law enforcement officers. That troubled path led this nation to a better place. As did the labor movement that was in large measure responsible for dramatic improvements in the American standard of living for everyone. Protest runs through the fabric of our society and we are better for it. All protests meet opposition of opinion and of tactics, but those with merit move the needle. I don't know if the protests at Missouri were just, and I don't know if they will help bring about a justice that is satisfying to the protestors. What I do know is that there is strength in numbers. And when enough people join forces behind a desire for social change of an institutional problem, we usually end up an improved nation.

This is bigger than a football team to those who risked scholarships and even ones life! The slippery slope you believe will bring about some chaotic condition we cannot make it back from, is far more likely to result in a dialogue that could lead to positive change and greater understanding. This is what our nation is and ought to be. ... And always has been. We are a nation established by protest ... And sustained and improved by it.
 
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T Town Tommy

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Well dude that is my whole point. The ones complaining about losing their religious freedoms and they are very vocal and political....can't see or choose not to commiserate with a minority who is also being as egregiously discriminated against and has been in this country for 400 years. I find that very interesting. Particularly because the Christians who are currently complaining about their discrimination use the same logic to air their grievances that was used to justify discrimination and segregation for blacks.

You do realize that it was the Christian community first and foremost who stood shoulder to shoulder with African Americans during the Civil Rights Movement. Now, I am not saying all as there were many who claimed their faith and did plenty of discriminating. My point is pretty simple... your comparison between the two is low.... even for you.
 

kmoose

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Someone who was actively engaged with student groups and in touch with student concerns would never have encountered those demands in the first place.

I'm sorry, but in this case, I think you are wrong. Watching that video, I have zero problem believing that this group could just be making outrageous demands that no one could possibly meet, and that they will settle for nothing short of the impossible.
 

IrishinSyria

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You do realize that it was the Christian community first and foremost who stood shoulder to shoulder with African Americans during the Civil Rights Movement. Now, I am not saying all as there were many who claimed their faith and did plenty of discriminating. My point is pretty simple... your comparison between the two is low.... even for you.

I don't think it's "low" by any stretch of the imagination to compare the experience of American Christians with American blacks...and to come to the conclusion that blacks have had it far far worse. Your point about global persecution is noted (though I disagree with the 80% number) but that's mostly a factor of Christianity being the largest religion in the world. It's not like Christianity as a global religion faces a disproportionate amount of persecution. I'd argue that veil of ignorance on, you're probably better off being born Christian than any other religion, in fact... a pretty balanced article on the subject.


Rather more rigorous data has been assembled by the Pew Research Forum in a report produced earlier this year. Pew found that official “restriction on religion” (a more objective term than “persecution”) was at the highest level for six years, as was the “social harassment” of members of religious communities. And Christians, indeed, were the most affected group. Christians faced harassment in no fewer than 151 countries worldwide – and not just in the Middle East, China or North Korea.

Undoubtedly a serious finding. To some extent, however, the high figure for Christians is an artefact of the statistics. Christianity is the world’s largest religion by number of adherents, so it shouldn’t come as too much of a surprise to discover that the largest number affected by what might be described as persecution are Christians. That would be the case if members of all religions were equally affected by persecution. By the same logic, one would expect Muslims to be the second most persecuted group. And so Pew discovered: Muslims suffered harassment or restriction in 131 countries worldwide.

It’s almost certainly not the case that Christians are the most “persecuted” religious group in proportion to their numbers. Rather, they suffer along with other minority groups from, to take the most obvious example, the increasing prominence and, in some countries, power of strains of Islam that are uncomfortable with the very notion of religious pluralism. So, to an equal or even greater extent, are Muslims belonging to minority sects, such as the Shia in Saudi Arabia or the Ahmadi in Pakistan. Persecution against the Ahmadis, a sect not regarded by some orthodox as Muslim at all, has spread even to Britain, where recently a local newspaper in Luton was prevailed upon to apologise for the “hurt feelings” of Muslims after it carried an advertisement from the Ahmadi community.

If Christians are persecuted in many parts of the world, so are Muslims, Hindus, atheists, Buddhists and Jews. If Christians are persecutors in other (or sometimes the same) parts of the world: as are Muslims, Hindus, atheists, Buddhists and Jews. The fact that such a list of persecutors can include Buddhists, probably the faith least renowned for its zeal or intolerance, is a strong indication that by and large we are dealing with group rivalries, hatred of minorities, political struggles and only rarely a persecution based in the specifics of Christian theology.
 

gkIrish

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Here's what I know...

It seems like racial tensions have really escalated since Trayvon Martin. And it also seems that these protests and media coverage are having a negative effect on race relations. I feel that whites are becoming resentful towards blacks. Blacks are getting more aggressive and many whites are afraid to speak their mind so anger is building up within them.

I'm worried it's going to culminate in some serious violence. Both sides need to calm down.
 

yankeehater

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How comical would it be if the new President comes in and says he is bringing in his own people and fires Pinkel and the AD.
 
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Cackalacky

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You do realize that it was the Christian community first and foremost who stood shoulder to shoulder with African Americans during the Civil Rights Movement. Now, I am not saying all as there were many who claimed their faith and did plenty of discriminating. My point is pretty simple... your comparison between the two is low.... even for you.

Not sure why it is low, even for me? I guess I hold a higher opinion of my self than others do. Oh well maybe that is not what you meant. I will assume that to be the case.

My point is simple as well. For 400 years white Christians in this country made the lives of blacks about as bad as one can make a life to be had. You can claim that maybe for the two hundred years one half of the country was awakened but the fact is that until 1964 if you were black, your life was way worse off than any white person in the country. I am not sure that is even arguable at this point.

I would love to know when in the history of this country Christians were lynched, sold as property, treated like farm animals, worked to death, castrated, or any of the other heinous acts committed against blacks in this country.
 
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yankeehater

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I know his teammates knew (not sure who else around campus), but was this not where Michael Sam went and was supported as an openly gay African American.
 
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Cackalacky

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I don't think it's "low" by any stretch of the imagination to compare the experience of American Christians with American blacks...and to come to the conclusion that blacks have had it far far worse. Your point about global persecution is noted (though I disagree with the 80% number) but that's mostly a factor of Christianity being the largest religion in the world. It's not like Christianity as a global religion faces a disproportionate amount of persecution. I'd argue that veil of ignorance on, you're probably better off being born Christian than any other religion, in fact... a pretty balanced article on the subject.

I made this exact point earlier. It is a MAJORITY VERSUS MINORTY issue. Race is the skin of it. The meat lies in privileges held by the majority and actions taken against the minorities.
 

T Town Tommy

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I know his teammates knew (not sure who else around campus), but was this not where Michael Sam went and was supported as an openly gay African American.

Michael Sam released a statement and said he never encountered racism while at Mizzou.
 

gkIrish

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Not sure why it is low, even for me? I guess I hold a higher opinion of my self than others. Oh well maybe that is not what you meant. I will assume that to be the case.

My point is simple as well. For 400 years white Christians in this country made the lives of blacks about as bad as one can make a life to be had. You can claim that maybe for the two hundred years one half of the country was awakened but the fact is that until 1964 if you were black, your life was way worse off than any white person in the country. I am not sure that is even arguable at this point.

I would love to know when in the history of this country Christians were lynched, sold as property, treated like farm animals, worked to death, castrated, or any of the other heinous acts committed against blacks in this country.

What is the connection between being Christian and being a slaveowner/racist? It seems to me that being white was the common theme, and being Christian was just coincidental to being white. I don't know that the church advocated slavery, but maybe I'm wrong.
 
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