2016 Presidential Horse Race

2016 Presidential Horse Race


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ShawneeIrish

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Did it concern anyone that HRC is proud to have R's as an enemy? and lists them equivalent to Iranians?

It bothered me also that anyone seeking to be Commander in Chief would be proud to make Iran or any other nation their enemies. Should be seeking to find common ground with Iran in dealing with serious issues in the Middle East, there is no harm in trying to bring parties to the table to discuss and work on serious problems. There may be times when you are unable to forge an agreement, there may be times when you are opposed, there may even occasionally be the need to engage in economic or military confrontations but bragging about the pride you have in being enemies with another nation is childish and is not something that should be considered a positive for any candidate form either party.
 

Sureal

Ambassador of Good Will
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It bothered me also that anyone seeking to be Commander in Chief would be proud to make Iran or any other nation their enemies. Should be seeking to find common ground with Iran in dealing with serious issues in the Middle East, there is no harm in trying to bring parties to the table to discuss and work on serious problems. There may be times when you are unable to forge an agreement, there may be times when you are opposed, there may even occasionally be the need to engage in economic or military confrontations but bragging about the pride you have in being enemies with another nation is childish and is not something that should be considered a positive for any candidate form either party.

We haven't had common ground with Iran since the early 70s. That ain't going to happen...

I think we really need to not think of them as potential allies at this point because we are their eternal enemies as they stated numerous times. I have no issue with her saying that personally
 
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SoIll

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I realize that I have an inherent dislike for Hillary. I can't stand her forced laughs or her rehearsed answers or he faux-smoothness. She's probably, to the majority of people, very likable but I can't stand the woman.

Please Bernie, please keep the momentum and build on it.

Handouts for everyone!
 

tommyIRISH23

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I think the key to the gun issue is to focus on better identifying and cataloging the individuals who should not have the right to possess firearms, and not banning specific types of guns. It is the banning of guns that really gets people excited. I think everyone would be ok with expanding background checks, as long as the government puts enough resources into it to make it work quickly and efficiently.

I dont think banning guns is the problem. I agree with you that more indepth background checks. In addition, taking tough steps to eliminate straw purchasing is a must. I can tell you from experience that almost all gun related violence isnt the result of legally owned weapons. Its the guns that are illegally obtained by people who are not legally allowed to carry guns that is the real problem.
 

NDgradstudent

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There is one lesson that Republicans can definitely learn from the Democrats: there is no point in pandering to constituencies that you cannot win. The Democrats have made it clear that they hold gun owners, NRA members, etc., in contempt, and they do not try to win their votes. The GOP cannot win a majority of Hispanics: majorities of Hispanics will always prefer the party of redistribution/ethnic quotas to the party of enterprise. So why does the GOP keep pandering by refusing to confront the immigration issue frankly? It will make no difference to the bottom line on election night.
 

tommyIRISH23

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"..conflict with basic math."

This is bullshit, fed to you by bigots. The rest of the civilized world does this. And even if gdp did take a hit, would you not sacrifice that for higher quality of life?

Would you put gdp ahead of happiness?

We're the laughing stock of the civilized world. We run ourselves to death (literally, look at our heart disease rates compared to other first world countries) that way we can make more money, which we will use to over-consume with, which will result in us needing more money. This country is the fattest rat in the race.

Not me. I run myself to death in a very stressful job in a very stressful enviorment dealing with the people in situations that most people instinctively run away from for not very much money. I eat right, save my money and take care of my body. Not everyone is a 300 lb basketcase who can't handle life. In fact, most people aren't. Heart disease is more related to decades of misinformation regarding nutrition than having to work hard or deal with stress. If people want to overconsume and destroy themselves than let them. Government can't and won't solve that.

With that being said, I like Bernie's basic philosophy of breaking up the "1%" . But I do not think the government is the "right man" for the job. How and when has government ever equitably (re)distributed anything? You are talking about billions upon billions of dollars that will find their way into the pockets of special interets, political donors, and fuel even more cronie-capitalism than we have now. I am not sure how this can be done but I am sure that government is not the answer.
 

kmoose

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We're the laughing stock of the civilized world. We run ourselves to death (literally, look at our heart disease rates compared to other first world countries) that way we can make more money, which we will use to over-consume with, which will result in us needing more money. This country is the fattest rat in the race.


I don't know where you have been visiting, overseas, but we are universally admired in other countries, from what I have experienced. People in other countries hate our politicians, but they LOVE Americans, in general.
 

GoIrish41

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Not me. I run myself to death in a very stressful job in a very stressful enviorment dealing with the people in situations that most people instinctively run away from for not very much money. I eat right, save my money and take care of my body. Not everyone is a 300 lb basketcase who can't handle life. In fact, most people aren't. Heart disease is more related to decades of misinformation regarding nutrition than having to work hard or deal with stress. If people want to overconsume and destroy themselves than let them. Government can't and won't solve that.

With that being said, I like Bernie's basic philosophy of breaking up the "1%" . But I do not think the government is the "right man" for the job. How and when has government ever equitably (re)distributed anything? You are talking about billions upon billions of dollars that will find their way into the pockets of special interets, political donors, and fuel even more cronie-capitalism than we have now. I am not sure how this can be done but I am sure that government is not the answer
.

Government may be the only thing that can break up the big corporations. They certainly aren't going to do it themselves and give up their advantages to help the rabble. Teddy Roosevelt would like a word with you.
 

Veritate Duce Progredi

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I think the key to the gun issue is to focus on better identifying and cataloging the individuals who should not have the right to possess firearms, and not banning specific types of guns. It is the banning of guns that really gets people excited. I think everyone would be ok with expanding background checks, as long as the government puts enough resources into it to make it work quickly and efficiently.

While I understand this, I'd be happy with just the first part. I grew up in a pro-gun family, shot my first squirrel at 12 or 13.

Why should people have the right to possess auto or semi-automatic weapons? I'm not saying that a ban on said weapons would make much of a difference in the tragedies that have occurred in the past. Most of the school shootings and massacres occur with commonplace handguns but why are people so insistent on their right to own something that can extinguish life so quickly?

Why is the right to own a weapon more important than a person's right to live unencumbered by bullet proof vests? If we vote for such weapons to be legal, are we really not choosing that over other human's potential loss of life?

Once again, I'm fairly certain the majority of atrocities committed on our soil are done with generic handguns/rifles/shotguns, and expanded background checks and more stringent sales guidelines would be the ideal solution but, why is everyone so 'up in arms'(pun) about the "assault" weapons?
 

kmoose

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Why should people have the right to possess auto or semi-automatic weapons? I'm not saying that a ban on said weapons would make much of a difference in the tragedies that have occurred in the past. Most of the school shootings and massacres occur with commonplace handguns but why are people so insistent on their right to own something that can extinguish life so quickly?

The right to bear arms is a Constitutional right. I'm not saying that there are not situations where the Constitution should be modified, but the question is........ if banning "assault" weapons is not going to make much of a difference, then why should we modify the Constitution to do it?


Why is the right to own a weapon more important than a person's right to live unencumbered by bullet proof vests? If we vote for such weapons to be legal, are we really not choosing that over other human's potential loss of life?

Who says the two are mutually exclusive? If the vast majority of gun owners are not involved in shooting others, then you do not have to live encumbered by a bullet proof vest. The problem is keeping those with mental illness away from guns. The first step in that is to identify those individuals. Part of the problem is that you simply cannot "stigmatize" people by announcing their mental health issues. But that is exactly what you have to do, to keep them from accessing guns.

Once again, I'm fairly certain the majority of atrocities committed on our soil are done with generic handguns/rifles/shotguns, and expanded background checks and more stringent sales guidelines would be the ideal solution but, why is everyone so 'up in arms'(pun) about the "assault" weapons?

I don't get up in arms about it. I think that there has to be a limit as to what people can own. I mean, I would NEVER support someone's "right" to own a Stinger missile or a Main Battle Tank.
 

tommyIRISH23

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Government may be the only thing that can break up the big corporations. They certainly aren't going to do it themselves and give up their advantages to help the rabble. Teddy Roosevelt would like a word with you.

By government involvement, I mean through taxation and redistribution of the taxed wealth. I do not trust that the tax revenue will go into the hands who need it most rather be doled out through welfare, subsidies to millionare philanthropists...etc. I like the idea of common sense regulation that energizes middle class business along with corporate america bringing there manufacturing facilities back to the US. Political hand outs to appease voting blocks under the guise of charity or humanity is probably the worst thing to have happened to the poor. Welfare traps are very real. Too many people see it as supplemental income rather than a temporary safety net. People are raised to believe that are entitled to it. Ive studied it and have seen it way to often. Its sad.
 

FightingIrishLover7

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Great post! Reps!!


I don't know where you have been visiting, overseas, but we are universally admired in other countries, from what I have experienced. People in other countries hate our politicians, but they LOVE Americans, in general.

"Universally admired"? Lol

Not only is that a stretch, that's a bold faced lie.

To use "universally" would indicate that everyone, without exception, admires Americans. I could literally break your entire argument with a single, anecdotal counter argument.

Clearly, dealing in absolutes is a silly game to play, but you chose to play anyway. Just as you chose to be silly and actually believe that America is the envy of the world.
 

Polish Leppy 22

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Math so basic that every other developed country on the planet has decided to be more like Bernie's mindset than yours.



Here's some basic math for you, the NRA helps perpetuate a gun violence culture in this country that has killed far more people than Islamic terrorists.

Cute line, but Denmark and Sweden don't have the same circumstances we do. We are $18 trillion in debt and Bernie wants another stimulus, wants to expand SS, medicare, and medicaid, and somehow make college "free."

You and I don't often agree, but you're not an idiot. Bernie's plans = financial suicide.
 

Polish Leppy 22

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Who gives a flying f*ck about the NRA? How many godd*mn guns do people need? Why is our right to gun ownership/collecting more important than adopting laws that could limit criminals attaining guns?

Last I checked, domestic terrorism has taken a number of lives the last few years yet Isis hasn't done a damn thing here.

I don't necessarily like Bernie's plan for college and I don't believe it'll be approved, should he attain the presidential seat. His other ideas, I'm all for. What else in his plan don't you agree with? The minimum wage? The big business? Gun control?

People keep talking about how Trump doesn't have to answer to anybody, I believe Bernie's long track record show that he is the least beholden to the corporations around him, despite a long, successful political career. Trump's record shows me he's a good capitalist and is good at looking out for numero uno.

I already noted this. Guess you didn't read. Bernie wants another stimulus, wants to expand all the entitlements that are already unsustainable, "free" college, etc. Bernie could put a 90% tax on every wealth producing hedge fund and individual on Wall St and it would be a drop in the bucket compared to what he wants to do to this country.
 

Polish Leppy 22

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"..conflict with basic math."

This is bullshit, fed to you by bigots. The rest of the civilized world does this. And even if gdp did take a hit, would you not sacrifice that for higher quality of life?

Would you put gdp ahead of happiness?

We're the laughing stock of the civilized world. We run ourselves to death (literally, look at our heart disease rates compared to other first world countries) that way we can make more money, which we will use to over-consume with, which will result in us needing more money. This country is the fattest rat in the race.

One of the angriest and at the same time weakest arguments we've seen here in a while.

1) You could confiscate 100% of our GDP and it still wouldn't pay for everything Bernie wants to do. This isn't fear mongering. It's freakin reality. Do the math.

2) We aren't perfect, but I'll take where we are now over Greece's situation. Any idea why they are in the situation they're in now? It wasn't "the rich." It wasn't the producers. The cushy welfare state imploded on itself.

3) You're right in noting the heart disease in America. It's staggering. For most people, that's within our control. Watch what you eat, how much of it you eat, and get off your ass and be active.
 

connor_in

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I'll just leave this here...

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This was the on-screen message on MSNBC from 10:02 to 10:10 tonight. <a href="http://t.co/eO1TkDJQGR">pic.twitter.com/eO1TkDJQGR</a></p>— NewsBusters (@newsbusters) <a href="https://twitter.com/newsbusters/status/654488480349847552">October 15, 2015</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

MSNBC's Hillary Clinton cheerleading shows no sign of letting up twitchy.com
 
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Cackalacky

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Cute line, but Denmark and Sweden don't have the same circumstances we do. We are $18 trillion in debt and Bernie wants another stimulus, wants to expand SS, medicare, and medicaid, and somehow make college "free."

You and I don't often agree, but you're not an idiot. Bernie's plans = financial suicide.

Just so we are clear, you understand that the majority of Bernie's plans just redirect money that will be spent anyway into new plans right? So your characterization above is unfair and not correct.

He wants to expand medicare and medicaid by making healthcare universal. his plan, the one supposedly costs 18 trillion dollars.... it won't cost 18 trillion on top of what we already spend, so that is erroneous firstly. It redirects the money we would spend on healthcare in the private world and redirects via taxes into universal healthcare. I can understand people having a problem with that but lets not make it seem like he is making it unsustainable. Its already massively unsustainable because of the cost and insurance requirements for healthcare in the private sector.

Free college tuition will be provided to State U's from a < 0.1% tax per transaction on specific high transaction rate products from Wall Street. It will result in hundreds of billions of dollars in tax influx. Enough to pay for all tuition for every student each year at State schools easily.

Also, I would love for someone to propose taxing the notional value of derivatives @ 1% held by derivative traders for every transaction they make. Our debt could be paid off in a year. If we wanted to get serious about it.....

So its not like he trying to do what you claim he is.
 

BleedBlueGold

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I'll just leave this here...

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This was the on-screen message on MSNBC from 10:02 to 10:10 tonight. <a href="http://t.co/eO1TkDJQGR">pic.twitter.com/eO1TkDJQGR</a></p>— NewsBusters (@newsbusters) <a href="https://twitter.com/newsbusters/status/654488480349847552">October 15, 2015</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

MSNBC's Hillary Clinton cheerleading shows no sign of letting up twitchy.com

This was discussed on TYT and how every online poll showed that not only did Bernie win the debate, but in some cases, Hillary didn't even finish second. What's insane is CNN posted it's poll (which showed Bernie won), then posted an article claiming Hillary won, then removed the poll to push their own agenda. The media is clearly pumping Hillary down everyone's throats without any care in the world as to whether their journalism is even objective.
 
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Cackalacky

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I'll just leave this here...

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This was the on-screen message on MSNBC from 10:02 to 10:10 tonight. <a href="http://t.co/eO1TkDJQGR">pic.twitter.com/eO1TkDJQGR</a></p>— NewsBusters (@newsbusters) <a href="https://twitter.com/newsbusters/status/654488480349847552">October 15, 2015</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

MSNBC's Hillary Clinton cheerleading shows no sign of letting up twitchy.com

Its disheartening that the main stream media is doing this stuff. They clearly want HRC to be the Dem front runner. They are really pushing it. CNN had a poll up that showed Sanders won the debate (81% voted for Sanders). They issued a headline saying HRC won clearly... then deleted the poll from their webpage and kept the headline.

Bernie won all major online voting polls scientific and not and all major focus groups:
Bernie Sanders by all objective measures "won" the debate. Hands down. I don’t say this as a personal analysis of the debate; the very idea of "winning" a debate is silly to me. I say this because based on the only relatively objective metric we have, online polls and focus groups, he did win. And it’s not even close.

Sanders won the CNN focus group, the Fusion focus group, and the Fox News focus group; in the latter, he even converted several Hillary supporters. He won the Slate online poll, CNN/Time online poll, 9News Colorado, The Street online poll, Fox5 poll, the conservative Drudge online poll and the liberal Daily Kos online poll. There wasn’t, to this writer's knowledge, a poll he didn’t win by at least an 18-point margin. But you wouldn’t know this from reading the establishment press. The New York Times, the New Yorker, CNN, Politico, Slate, New York Magazine, and Vox all unanimously say Hillary Clinton cleaned house. What gives?

Firstly, it’s important to point out that online polls, and to a lesser extent focus groups, are obviously not scientific. But it’s also important to point out that the echo chamber musings of establishment liberal pundits is far, far less scientific. It wasn’t that the online polls and focus groups had Sanders winning, it’s that they had him winning by a lot. And it wasn’t just that the pundit class has Clinton winning, it’s that they had her winning by a lot. This gap speaks to a larger gap we’ve seen since the beginning of the Sanders campaign. The mainstream media writes off Bernie and is constantly shocked when his polls numbers go up. What explains this phenomenon? Freddie DeBoer had this to say:

This morning, I’ve been pointing out on Twitter that the unanimity of pro-Hillary Clinton journalism coming from the mouthpieces of establishment Democratic politics — Slate, Vox, New York Magazine, etc. — is entirely predictable and has no meaningful relationship to her actual performance at the debate last night. That’s because, one, the Democrats are a centrist party that is interested in maintaining the stranglehold of the DNC establishment on their presidential politics, and these publications toe that line. And second, because Clinton has long been assumed to be the heavy favorite to win the presidency, these publications are in a heated battle to produce the most sympathetic coverage, in order to gain access. That is a tried-and-true method of career advancement in political journalism. Ezra Klein was a well-regarded blogger and journalist. He became the most influential journalist in DC (and someone, I can tell you with great confidence, that young political journalists are terrified of crossing) through his rabid defense of Obamacare, and subsequent access to the President. That people would try and play the same role with Clinton is as natural and unsurprising as I can imagine.
Bernie Won All the Focus Groups & Online Polls, So Why Is the Media Saying Hillary Won the Debate? | Alternet
 

BleedBlueGold

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Just so we are clear, you understand that the majority of Bernie's plans just redirect money that will be spent anyway into new plans right? So your characterization above is unfair and not correct.

He wants to expand medicare and medicaid by making healthcare universal. his plan, the one supposedly costs 18 trillion dollars.... it won't cost 18 trillion on top of what we already spend, so that is erroneous firstly. It redirects the money we would spend on healthcare in the private world and redirects via taxes into universal healthcare. I can understand people having a problem with that but lets not make it seem like he is making it unsustainable. Its already massively unsustainable because of the cost and insurance requirements for healthcare in the private sector.

Free college tuition will be provided to State U's from a < 0.1% tax per transaction on specific high transaction rate products from Wall Street. It will result in hundreds of billions of dollars in tax influx. Enough to pay for all tuition for every student each year at State schools easily.

Also, I would love for someone to propose taxing the notional value of derivatives @ 1% held by derivative traders for every transaction they make. Our debt could be paid off in a year. If we wanted to get serious about it.....

So its not like he trying to do what you claim he is.


I wouldn't waste your time debating with Polish on this matter, Cack.
 
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Cackalacky

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I wouldn't waste your time debating with Polish on this matter, Cack.

This is not my first rodeo with him. He is a good guy even though his bias is so hard it could cut diamond. You just have to keep trying....


PL22, you know I am right ;)
 

kmoose

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"Universally admired"? Lol

Not only is that a stretch, that's a bold faced lie.

To use "universally" would indicate that everyone, without exception, admires Americans. I could literally break your entire argument with a single, anecdotal counter argument.

Clearly, dealing in absolutes is a silly game to play, but you chose to play anyway. Just as you chose to be silly and actually believe that America is the envy of the world.

from what I have experienced.

I have done work in Japan, Panama, Singapore, Australia, Ukraine, Azerbaijan, Malta, Cyprus, Jordan, Bulgaria, Macedonia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Serbia, and the Czech Republic. In EVERY one of those instances, the people I worked with couldn't stop talking about how great America is, how hard working Americans are, how smart Americans are, and how wretched our politicians are. They were pretty well split on Hollywood; most love the movies, but think that the actors and actresses behave like spoiled children. That's been my experience.
 

kmoose

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It redirects the money we would spend on healthcare in the private world and redirects via taxes into universal healthcare.

What money we would spend on healthcare in the private world? Are you talking about the $15-$25 I spend on copays, and the money I pay for prescriptions? If so, then Bernie Sanders can get bent. That's MY discretionary income. He doesn't get to take that away as taxes and spend it on everyone else.

Free college tuition will be provided to State U's from a < 0.1% tax per transaction on specific high transaction rate products from Wall Street.

This sounds an awful lot like Obama's claim that he is going to shut Guantanamo Bay down, as soon as he is elected.

"What? I have to go through Congress to do that? Really? Well, fvck it.......that ain't happening. Call up Tiger and see if he wants to play 18 this afternoon. Tell him I'll take him to that diner with the hot waitresses afterward!"

Sanders can't raise taxes on his own, and if you think he can get congress to raise taxes on Wall Street, then I have some tickets to the ND-Air Force National Championship Football Game, in Hawaii, that I think you might be interested in.

The key to American economic prosperity is not a college education for everyone; it's manufacturing. The middle class was strong in the 50s and 60s because we actually BUILT sh!t. Now we export the manufacturing overseas, and all we do is sell and consume. That's simply not sustainable for the middle class. If everyone in America had a college degree, what do you think would happen to the value of that degree? You'd have a Bachelors in Social Behavior, and you'd be making minimum wage at McDonald's. Because no research company is going to pay you $60,000 a year as a market research associate, if they can pay the next guy (who has the same degree) $35,000. And there will always be someone out there willing to live on $35,000 a year.

By the way.............

Free healthcare and free college?

You think we have an immigration problem NOW?....
 

BleedBlueGold

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What money we would spend on healthcare in the private world? Are you talking about the $15-$25 I spend on copays, and the money I pay for prescriptions? If so, then Bernie Sanders can get bent. That's MY discretionary income. He doesn't get to take that away as taxes and spend it on everyone else.



This sounds an awful lot like Obama's claim that he is going to shut Guantanamo Bay down, as soon as he is elected.

"What? I have to go through Congress to do that? Really? Well, fvck it.......that ain't happening. Call up Tiger and see if he wants to play 18 this afternoon. Tell him I'll take him to that diner with the hot waitresses afterward!"

Sanders can't raise taxes on his own, and if you think he can get congress to raise taxes on Wall Street, then I have some tickets to the ND-Air Force National Championship Football Game, in Hawaii, that I think you might be interested in.

The key to American economic prosperity is not a college education for everyone; it's manufacturing. The middle class was strong in the 50s and 60s because we actually BUILT sh!t. Now we export the manufacturing overseas, and all we do is sell and consume. That's simply not sustainable for the middle class. If everyone in America had a college degree, what do you think would happen to the value of that degree? You'd have a Bachelors in Social Behavior, and you'd be making minimum wage at McDonald's. Because no research company is going to pay you $60,000 a year as a market research associate, if they can pay the next guy (who has the same degree) $35,000. And there will always be someone out there willing to live on $35,000 a year.

By the way.............

Free healthcare and free college?

You think we have an immigration problem NOW?....


It's my understanding that the money he's referring to in healthcare are the insurance premium, deductibles, etc. The price tag for Sanders' plan gets people riled up because everyone wrongfully believes it's additional money. It's not. Healthcare in this country is insanely expensive. Bernie's plan is actually estimated to cost LESS than what the U.S. already pays. But people hear "universal healthcare" or "free healthcare" and freak the fuck out w/o actually looking into the numbers and the plan behind it.

A lot of Sander's plan for free college is in conjunction with helping low-income, impoverished kids stay out of jail and earn a job. You almost always hear him talk about both topics at the same time. Education should be the foundation of our future. Providing more of it should never be looked at as a negative.

And no, he can't just raise taxes on his own. But if you actually read his plan: He wants to eliminate tax loopholes. And that he can do w/ executive order. Sanders Asks Obama to Close Six Egregious Corporate Tax Loopholes - Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont

And btw, he's not the only one going after these loopholes: Clinton, Bush, and Trump are also on record with their support for closing the carried interest loophole. The money this could generate could go a long way in providing some of the programs Sanders wants to have.
 

connor_in

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/pundits-thought-clinton-beat-sanders-but-did-viewers/

DebateWebPolls.png
 
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Cackalacky

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What money we would spend on healthcare in the private world? Are you talking about the $15-$25 I spend on copays, and the money I pay for prescriptions? If so, then Bernie Sanders can get bent. That's MY discretionary income. He doesn't get to take that away as taxes and spend it on everyone else.



This sounds an awful lot like Obama's claim that he is going to shut Guantanamo Bay down, as soon as he is elected.

"What? I have to go through Congress to do that? Really? Well, fvck it.......that ain't happening. Call up Tiger and see if he wants to play 18 this afternoon. Tell him I'll take him to that diner with the hot waitresses afterward!"

Sanders can't raise taxes on his own, and if you think he can get congress to raise taxes on Wall Street, then I have some tickets to the ND-Air Force National Championship Football Game, in Hawaii, that I think you might be interested in.

The key to American economic prosperity is not a college education for everyone; it's manufacturing. The middle class was strong in the 50s and 60s because we actually BUILT sh!t. Now we export the manufacturing overseas, and all we do is sell and consume. That's simply not sustainable for the middle class. If everyone in America had a college degree, what do you think would happen to the value of that degree? You'd have a Bachelors in Social Behavior, and you'd be making minimum wage at McDonald's. Because no research company is going to pay you $60,000 a year as a market research associate, if they can pay the next guy (who has the same degree) $35,000. And there will always be someone out there willing to live on $35,000 a year.

By the way.............

Free healthcare and free college?

You think we have an immigration problem NOW?....

59264254.jpg
 

FightingIrishLover7

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What money we would spend on healthcare in the private world? Are you talking about the $15-$25 I spend on copays, and the money I pay for prescriptions? If so, then Bernie Sanders can get bent. That's MY discretionary income. He doesn't get to take that away as taxes and spend it on everyone else.



This sounds an awful lot like Obama's claim that he is going to shut Guantanamo Bay down, as soon as he is elected.

"What? I have to go through Congress to do that? Really? Well, fvck it.......that ain't happening. Call up Tiger and see if he wants to play 18 this afternoon. Tell him I'll take him to that diner with the hot waitresses afterward!"

Sanders can't raise taxes on his own, and if you think he can get congress to raise taxes on Wall Street, then I have some tickets to the ND-Air Force National Championship Football Game, in Hawaii, that I think you might be interested in.

The key to American economic prosperity is not a college education for everyone; it's manufacturing. The middle class was strong in the 50s and 60s because we actually BUILT sh!t. Now we export the manufacturing overseas, and all we do is sell and consume. That's simply not sustainable for the middle class. If everyone in America had a college degree, what do you think would happen to the value of that degree? You'd have a Bachelors in Social Behavior, and you'd be making minimum wage at McDonald's. Because no research company is going to pay you $60,000 a year as a market research associate, if they can pay the next guy (who has the same degree) $35,000. And there will always be someone out there willing to live on $35,000 a year.

By the way.............

Free healthcare and free college?

You think we have an immigration problem NOW?....
"That's my discretionary income."

Such a cliche "hard working" American response.

The billionaire class wants you to believe that you should be responsible for yourself. The Republicans create this idea that "you should protect yourself...". In reality, there are people in this country that need help. With capitalism, you will have winners and you will have losers. The losers, can (much more difficultly) crawl their way out on occasion, but the deck is so so so stacked against them.

I believe in creating an equal deck of cards for all socioeconomic situations (I know that's unrealistic so I'll settle for a "more closely balanced" deck).

I would gladly chip in a 50% income tax, if I was investing into a government that helps the people, not corporations. I am a happy person, I don't not need to spoil myself. I do not need nor want to horde money for myself, while I see others sleeping on the streets.

More importantly, I want everyone to have free education. Who are we to put a "price" on an education? I know people that aren't going to college because their parents don't have the money and are fearful of the debt they would be in, if they went that route. How are we, as a "great country", pricing people out of a higher education? Education should be a right, at all levels. If a person wants to learn, they should absolutely be able to learn. We need more educated people in this country, and this world.

Right now, our education system is at the mercy of capitalism. The market is continuing to titrate itself, until it finds the cost/benefit threshold. People are still attending college (via loans), because they view the benefit greater than the cost. So, the cost will only continue to go up until the benefits are no longer worth it.

That, is how our colleges and universities are being ran. Are you serious? We price out education like it is a ticket on the Titanic.

You can continue to be scared and horde your "discretionary income," why I continue to fight for a change in this country, in which children that are born into difficult situations / environments have the same percent chance of exceeding and being happy in this country.
 

BleedBlueGold

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A huge problem in this country is people's inability to think with their heart and instead think with their bank account. When you privatize everything, greed takes over and suddenly things that should be a given right to every American become for-profit, with the only incentive being to make more money at all cost. Healthcare and education are right up at the top among things that should never be considered for-profit. Ever.
 

Veritate Duce Progredi

A man gotta have a code
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It's my understanding that the money he's referring to in healthcare are the insurance premium, deductibles, etc. The price tag for Sanders' plan gets people riled up because everyone wrongfully believes it's additional money. It's not. Healthcare in this country is insanely expensive. Bernie's plan is actually estimated to cost LESS than what the U.S. already pays. But people hear "universal healthcare" or "free healthcare" and freak the fuck out w/o actually looking into the numbers and the plan behind it.

A lot of Sander's plan for free college is in conjunction with helping low-income, impoverished kids stay out of jail and earn a job. You almost always hear him talk about both topics at the same time. Education should be the foundation of our future. Providing more of it should never be looked at as a negative.

And no, he can't just raise taxes on his own. But if you actually read his plan: He wants to eliminate tax loopholes. And that he can do w/ executive order. Sanders Asks Obama to Close Six Egregious Corporate Tax Loopholes - Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont


And btw, he's not the only one going after these loopholes: Clinton, Bush, and Trump are also on record with their support for closing the carried interest loophole. The money this could generate could go a long way in providing some of the programs Sanders wants to have.

Yep. I'm okay with highly subsidized or free education and I have zero student loans. All of my friends are treading water with their loans and that's a problem.

"That's my discretionary income."

Such a cliche "hard working" American response.

The billionaire class wants you to believe that you should be responsible for yourself. The Republicans create this idea that "you should protect yourself...". In reality, there are people in this country that need help. With capitalism, you will have winners and you will have losers. The losers, can (much more difficultly) crawl their way out on occasion, but the deck is so so so stacked against them.

I believe in creating an equal deck of cards for all socioeconomic situations (I know that's unrealistic so I'll settle for a "more closely balanced" deck).

I would gladly chip in a 50% income tax, if I was investing into a government that helps the people, not corporations. I am a happy person, I don't not need to spoil myself. I do not need nor want to horde money for myself, while I see others sleeping on the streets.

More importantly, I want everyone to have free education. Who are we to put a "price" on an education? I know people that aren't going to college because their parents don't have the money and are fearful of the debt they would be in, if they went that route. How are we, as a "great country", pricing people out of a higher education? Education should be a right, at all levels. If a person wants to learn, they should absolutely be able to learn. We need more educated people in this country, and this world.

Right now, our education system is at the mercy of capitalism. The market is continuing to titrate itself, until it finds the cost/benefit threshold. People are still attending college (via loans), because they view the benefit greater than the cost. So, the cost will only continue to go up until the benefits are no longer worth it.

That, is how our colleges and universities are being ran. Are you serious? We price out education like it is a ticket on the Titanic.

You can continue to be scared and horde your "discretionary income," why I continue to fight for a change in this country, in which children that are born into difficult situations / environments have the same percent chance of exceeding and being happy in this country.

Agreed. I don't need to keep "all of my money", I'm happy to help actually develop this country into something better than strip malls with a massive divide in QOL.
 
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