A Season with Notre Dame Football

[GoIrish41]

I hope I'm wrong but the margin for error is so small in order to win 11-12 regular season games. Losing as much as we have only narrows that margin. I don't want to be too negative but the guys we are losing were the starters for a reason. Zaire was the starting QB because he's better than Kizer. Otherwise Kizer would've been the starter. Same goes for Smythe, Folston, Jarron Jones, etc. Doesn't mean that the players stepping in for them can't be somewhat successful but to expect the same production is a little unrealistic considering those guys were the starters for a reason. I'd say that Prosise is the only one where he is actually adding something more to the offense with his big play ability. However, that doesn't make losing Folston a wash. This is week 3, Prosise has never taken 20+ shots/game for 12 games, who knows how he'll hold up.

I agree with a lot of this, but I will add this ...

Folston was better as a freshman that Cam McDaniel was as a junior and it took Kelly a season and half to forego his loyalty to Cam and start featuring Folston. I believe that Morgan is a better player (not communicator) than Schmidt is today, but he has barely seen the field and Kelly states boldly that Schmidt can't be taken off the field because he's better. I have seen both play, and I think Kelly is wrong.

I can't remember the last time I saw Onowalu make a big play (let alone a tackle) yet he continues to start over guys like Martini and a slew of young talented OLBs. Martini came in last year and was extremely impressive. Golson was absolutely terrible at times last year and Malik continued to watch from the bench. But all of the sudden, this year he is absolutely the only answer at QB? I don't buy it. This week, Luatua is going to start at TE in front of Alize Jones and I don't think anyone thinks he's a better player.

In each of these instances, the guy who was/is starting is not better than the person who is sitting behind him on the depth chart, at least to my eye. I know, he's the coach and I'm not, but he has made some highly questionable personnel decisions since he's come to ND. The point being ... sometimes the guy comes off the bench and leaves all of us scratching our heads and asking, "why the hell wasn't that guy playing in the first place?" Maybe it is wishful thinking and I'm completely off base, but I'm at least going to watch on Saturday and see how Kizer, Prosise, Cage and one of the tight ends (I do not think Luatua is the answer) does before I downgrade my own expectations. I say we beat Ga. Tech and those four guys are going to make significant contributions to that win. Go Irish!

 

[tussin]

[/B]


You are more than welcome to operate this way but I don't view it as a realistic approach. A couple points I'd make is, you gave two examples of back up QB's coming in and being successful over 40ish years. Now there are probably more so I don't want to get into that discussion but its not very "likely" that all these injuries don't lead to decreased performance on the field. Thats just how it works.

Also, your entire post revolves around just the QB, we've also lost starters at other positions as well. Though it looks like Cage/Tillery are doing admirable, they aren't better than a healthy Jarron, and even if they turnout to be, eventually, not having that depth will hurt at some point. Smythe was/is head and shoulders better than Luatua. Thats why Smythe was giving up very few snaps to any other TE prior to his injury.

Can't argue your rationale.

And I generally agree, I don't think we are going to win 11-12 games. I guess the point of my post was that ND still has more talent and is better across the board than everyone but Clemson, USC, and GTech (debatable). Win one of those three and finish the season 10-2. I think that's realistic while also living up to (most) people's expectations going into the year.

 

[Luckylucci]

I agree with a lot of this, but I will add this ...

Folston was better as a freshman that Cam McDaniel was as a junior and it took Kelly a season and half to forego his loyalty to Cam and start featuring Folston. I believe that Morgan is a better player (not communicator) than Schmidt is today, but he has barely seen the field and Kelly states boldly that Schmidt can't be taken off the field because he's better. I have seen both play, and I think Kelly is wrong.

I can't remember the last time I saw Onowalu make a big play (let alone a tackle) yet he continues to start over guys like Martini and a slew of young talented OLBs. Martini came in last year and was extremely impressive. This week, Luatua is going to start at TE in front of Alize Jones and I don't think anyone thinks he's a better player.

In each of these instances, the guy who was/is starting is not better than the person who is sitting behind him on the depth chart, at least to my eye. I know, he's the coach and I'm not, but he has made some highly questionable personnel decisions since he's come to ND. The point being ... sometimes the guy comes off the bench and leaves all of us scratching our heads and asking, "why the hell wasn't that guy playing in the first place?" Maybe it is wishful thinking and I'm completely off base, but I'm at least going to watch on Saturday and see how Kizer, Prosise, Cage and one of the tight ends (I do not think Luatua is the answer) does before I downgrade my own expectations. I say we beat Ga. Tech and those four guys are going to make significant contributions to that win. Go Irish!

This is whole different discussion and wouldn't go very far in increasing my confidence in this team. Its a fairly contradictory post. You are essentially saying he's not playing the players that give us our best chance to win (therefore not a very good coach) but yet that is somehow supposed to improve our chances of winning going forward.

So he's a bad coach but we should have confidence that our backups are better? Not sure I agree with that logic.

 

[Luckylucci]

Can't argue your rationale.

And I generally agree, I don't think we are going to win 11-12 games. I guess the point of my post was that ND still has more talent and is better across the board than everyone but Clemson, USC, and GTech (debatable). Win one of those three and finish the season 10-2. I think that's realistic while also living up to (most) people's expectations going into the year.

Yea, I see 10 as the upside now.

 

[IrishLax]

Depth is a concern, but we're not entirely fucked yet. We lose Jaylon Smith or Will Fuller and the season is 100% over. IMO, Malik was incredibly important because the entire offense was built around a run-first spread.

I think for all of Kelly's coach-speak the offense needs to get re-tooled into a throw-first attack. Kizer is clearly going to make mistakes and be limited, but that's what our personnel currently dictates. He's not going to be the dangerous runner Malik was, but he is going to be able to survey the field from the pocket and extend plays. Chuck all over the field and pray. Seems legit.

The other thing I'm interested to see is if it's worth using Wimbush. Not only does he have a huge arm, but Wimbush is fast. He's faster than Malik (though probably not as good of an overall runner) and could be an interesting wrinkle in packages.

EDIT: elephant in the room is that Joe Schmidt looked horrible last week and has lost a step. Going to be really interesting to see how he and one-hand Max Redfield do this week.

 

[Irish#1]

And thats kind of my point. Losing Folston might not hurt now but what if Prosise has to miss a game or two (knock on wood). Then do we really feel just as good about Adams/Williams as we did Folston/Prosise?

I posted a few days back, we really don't know. Zaire might be a 11-12 win QB and Kizer might be a 10-11 win QB. Maybe the difference in them is marginal. Maybe Zaire got the nod because he is a better runner and more vocal in his leadership. Kizer showed Saturday that he is also a leader. I think we're in good hands.

 

[Wild Bill]

Depth is a concern, but we're not entirely fucked yet. We lose Jaylon Smith or Will Fuller and the season is 100% over. IMO, Malik was incredibly important because the entire offense was built around a run-first spread.

I think for all of Kelly's coach-speak the offense needs to get re-tooled into a throw-first attack. Kizer is clearly going to make mistakes and be limited, but that's what our personnel currently dictates. He's not going to be the dangerous runner Malik was, but he is going to be able to survey the field from the pocket and extend plays. Chuck all over the field and pray. Seems legit.

The other thing I'm interested to see is if it's worth using Wimbush. Not only does he have a huge arm, but Wimbush is fast. He's faster than Malik (though probably not as good of an overall runner) and could be an interesting wrinkle in packages.

EDIT: elephant in the room is that Joe Schmidt looked horrible last week and has lost a step. Going to be really interesting to see how he and one-hand Max Redfield do this week.

Add Prosise and Day to that list IMO.

 

[Grahambo]

Wally Pip time.

Trust, have faith...and you might even be surprised.

 

[Luckylucci]

Depth is a concern, but we're not entirely fucked yet. We lose Jaylon Smith or Will Fuller and the season is 100% over. IMO, Malik was incredibly important because the entire offense was built around a run-first spread.

I think for all of Kelly's coach-speak the offense needs to get re-tooled into a throw-first attack. Kizer is clearly going to make mistakes and be limited, but that's what our personnel currently dictates. He's not going to be the dangerous runner Malik was, but he is going to be able to survey the field from the pocket and extend plays. Chuck all over the field and pray. Seems legit.

The other thing I'm interested to see is if it's worth using Wimbush. Not only does he have a huge arm, but Wimbush is fast. He's faster than Malik (though probably not as good of an overall runner) and could be an interesting wrinkle in packages.

EDIT: elephant in the room is that Joe Schmidt looked horrible last week and has lost a step. Going to be really interesting to see how he and one-hand Max Redfield do this week.

Great point, he has been below average 2 straight weeks now yet Kelly and staff seem committed to playing him. A little worrisome in my eyes. Not only that but BVG also continues to misuse him. If he's going to be on the field you have to play to his strengths and thats not happening. Lastly, one of the worst parts of his game versus Texas was how poorly he handled cutblocks, that needs to get much better for this weeks matchup.

 

[NDohio]

Can't argue your rationale.

And I generally agree, I don't think we are going to win 11-12 games. I guess the point of my post was that ND still has more talent and is better across the board than everyone but Clemson, USC, and GTech (debatable). Win one of those three and finish the season 10-2. I think that's realistic while also living up to (most) people's expectations going into the year.

I may be completely crazy here and be totally blindsided, but I do believe that this trio of teams are the only teams that match our personnel. If Elliott has done the job he was supposed to do, then this weekend could be a great weekend for ND. Clemson has lost as many players(if not more) due to injuries and arrests/discipline as ND has and I think are a bit overrated. I believe victories in those two games are very possible(NO MORE INJURIES!).

USC after Navy - yuck...

 

[irishfan]

My expectations are certainly lowered for the year. At the same time, this schedule isn't exactly murderer's row. We don't have any cupcakes besides UMASS, but IMO the only teams we have any excuse at all to lose to are GT, Clemson, USC, or Stanford unless our injury situation worsens even more. And all 4 of those teams have their limitations and question marks as well.

Pitt already lost their best RB and has been average forever. Temple is Temple. Navy is Navy. UMASS is a cupcake. BC is a team of 3-stars. Wake is terrible. Even with our current injury situation, we have no reason to lose to those 6 teams this season. I know Pitt/Navy/BC have given us trouble before, but this is the best team we have had in forever and neither one of those three seem too formidable. If we can somehow get through this first week with Kizer, I think 11-1 and sneaking into the playoffs remains a small possibility.

 

[GoIrish41]

Duplicate post

 

[IrishLax]

My expectations are certainly lowered for the year. At the same time, this schedule isn't exactly murderer's row. We don't have any cupcakes besides UMASS, but IMO the only teams we have any excuse at all to lose to are GT, Clemson, USC, or Stanford unless our injury situation worsens even more. And all 4 of those teams have their limitations and question marks as well.

Pitt already lost their best RB and has been average forever. Temple is Temple. Navy is Navy. UMASS is a cupcake. BC is a team of 3-stars. Wake is terrible. Even with our current injury situation, we have no reason to lose to those 6 teams this season. I know Pitt/Navy/BC have given us trouble before, but this is the best team we have had in forever and neither one of those three seem too formidable. If we can somehow get through this first week with Kizer, I think 11-1 and sneaking into the playoffs remains a small possibility.

It's funny but there is a rather reasonable chance that Temple is undefeated and in the top 15 when we play them... maybe even higher ranked than Notre Dame. And that was supposed to be one of our cupcake games.

 

[GoIrish41]

This is whole different discussion and wouldn't go very far in increasing my confidence in this team. Its a fairly contradictory post. You are essentially saying he's not playing the players that give us our best chance to win (therefore not a very good coach) but yet that is somehow supposed to improve our chances of winning going forward.

So he's a bad coach but we should have confidence that our backups are better? Not sure I agree with that logic.

Not saying he's a bad coach. I guess what I am saying is that he is fiecely loyal to his players, sometimes to a fault ... that is certainly the case with Cam, and IMO it is the case with Schmidt this year. In both cases we had better options but he kept going to the well with guys who worked hard and gave 100 percent effort over guys who were just more physically gifted.

THAT SAID, I'm not saying that we will be better with the new guys. I'm saying that we won't necessarily be noticably worse without the original starters. Lets face it, we don't even know what we had in Malik yet. He had a good game against Texas and a "meh" game against Virginia before he got hurt. As much as I like Folston, Prosise has been a more than pleasant surprise at RB. We haven't used the TE much this year, so the loss of Smythe does not seem like the end of the world. Depth certainly takes a hit, but I'm not sure production will go down all that much with the back-ups. This squad is full of guys with talent.


Edit: And it seems that you agree with my point a little, at least in Schmidt's case ...

Great point, he has been below average 2 straight weeks now yet Kelly and staff seem committed to playing him. A little worrisome in my eyes. Not only that but BVG also continues to misuse him. If he's going to be on the field you have to play to his strengths and thats not happening. Lastly, one of the worst parts of his game versus Texas was how poorly he handled cutblocks, that needs to get much better for this weeks matchup.

 

[GoIrish41]

It's funny but there is a rather reasonable chance that Temple is undefeated and in the top 15 when we play them... maybe even higher ranked than Notre Dame. And that was supposed to be one of our cupcake games.

Yep. Temple is no pushover this year.

 

[Irish Insanity]

I use the same logic when I go out on the weekends. If a 9/10 can get the job done, so can a 6/10.

Ya, but you can't pull either so

 

[Irish Insanity]

And think of where we'd be if we didn't come in to the season with the depth we did. This is by far the deepest team we've had in years.

 

[irishfan]

It's funny but there is a rather reasonable chance that Temple is undefeated and in the top 15 when we play them... maybe even higher ranked than Notre Dame. And that was supposed to be one of our cupcake games.

I know they're having a great year for them. Ranked #26 in the AP. I watched their whole PSU game since a lot of my friends from college are PSU fans. They just have less talent than most teams on our schedule and it would be inexcusable to lose to them. They don't have one kid who had an ND scholarship.

We don't have any gimme games besides UMASS so I get your point there. You just can't be losing to a team like Temple in BK's 6th year.

 

[#1rish]

DVRd the first episode of Onward Notre Dame on NBCSN. Really good. I liked how they focused on the freshman contributing. Surprised they were able to get in the Zaire injury in there too.

 

[Fbolt]

Watched episode 1 on YouTube, ordered Showtime this evening, ready to go.

 

[Fbolt]

BK wearing flips!!!!!! I love it!

 

[MNIrishman]

I know they're having a great year for them. Ranked #26 in the AP. I watched their whole PSU game since a lot of my friends from college are PSU fans. They just have less talent than most teams on our schedule and it would be inexcusable to lose to them. They don't have one kid who had an ND scholarship.

We don't have any gimme games besides UMASS so I get your point there. You just can't be losing to a team like Temple in BK's 6th year.

I know we've had a lot of transfers but there are only so many to go around. I don't know that we can judge Temple on whether or not they have any former ND players on the team .

 

[NDgradstudent]

Excellent episode, but the series is turning into ER...

 

[Fbolt]

Good segments on both Van Gorder and then Kelly/Zaire.

 

[Circa]

Couldn't help to cry as a grown ass man. That was very touching. Showtime is doing a great job.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

Def a good episode...but damn


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[Henges24]

Tough to watch Malik like that. What a leader he is. Makes you feel even more for him. Here's to a speedy, 100% recovery for him and a injury-free season moving forward with the rest of the team.

Kelly was pretty emotional. Almost choked up a few times. You can obviously tell Malik has a special place in his heart.

 

[Irish Insanity]

Really, nobody before me #BurntheBoats

 

[koonja]

Malik is going to be my favorite ND player of all time I think.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

Ok guys. Time to move on. Kizer will steer this ship to victory!


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