2016 Presidential Horse Race

[wizards8507]

But it does.

It doesn't have to.

 

[phgreek]

I am sorry. I really don't get the conservatives use of elitist. For me it means this:


Which if you think that the majority of Liberals think they are in an elite class.... (possibly intellectually maybe)...IDK brother. Most liberals are trying to make better lives for themselves and can't really be regarded as elite.

Its also belittling. Its a dirty conservative code word, one I do not think applies to Bernie at all. My reference to Palin was more for the fact that whenever I hear "elitist" used to belittle liberals, my mind goes automatically to her babbling buffonery interview after interview in which she used it often and with much disgust...it wasn't a shot at yankeehater.

Apologies yankeehater if you thought that.

Sorry for the delay... I was at the ENT Dr. getting stitches and splints out of my beek. Seems the conversation moved on...however

...I totally understand the issue with my definition...in large part it is a co opted definition...and alot off the cuff. Just my view...and my definition leaves room for people of any political persuasion. I am sure there are better definitions from official republicans and official democrats.

I get your point, and yea I suppose you could take Elite as generally belittling the party. I really see it as another "identity" that suffers from all the same issues as any other generalization...but it is something I have a conception of nonetheless.

I hear trump's voice on my TV...gotta go watch this...

 

[GoldenDome]

Is Bernie for real? He is pulling huge crowds, 28,000 in Oregon and 27,000 here in Los Angeles. I don't know if any other candidate has come close to the crowds he is amassing.

#FeelTheBern

 

[phgreek]

There are apparently 1138 benefits rights and protections given by legal marriage

Overview of Federal Benefits Granted to Married Couples | Resources | Human Rights Campaign

One of the charts in the link:

see I'm married and it doesn't feel this "beneficial"...


ok now I'm going to see what trump is doing...

 

[ACamp1900]

#FeelTheBern

Apparently his campaign is taking tips from another Clinton.......

 

[BGIF]

Sorry for the delay... I was at the ENT Dr. getting stitches and splints out of my beek. ...

Cackalacky does swing a mean keyboard ...

 

[Cackalacky]

Cackalacky does swing a mean keyboard ...

I have been known to be a little rough with the keystrokes.

 

[GoIrish41]

It doesn't have to.

I fail to see a reason why it would not be. Marriage is both your sacred vow AND a contract between two parties. That is for the protection of the two parties and to bestow them new legal rights that must be legally provable. It can and is both of these things simultaneously AS IT SHOULD BE. Me and Sandi Koester once decided we were going to get married and went about writing vows and we threw a wedding ceremony with her best friend as the preacher. We read them to one another (might have even kinda meant them, but what did we know? We were only 11). So should I be breaking some news to my "current wife"? She is gonna be pissed if I tell her I am already married -- but then again, what is the big deal? There aren't any laws against having two wives, right? No laws about marriage. Does that mean I lose the tax advantage of being married? I can no longer smoothly pass along wealth in the event of my demise. Everything gets a bit trickier when there is no legal record. Divorce? Why bother? Not like Johnny law will have anything to say about it. I want to take the woman whom I have made vows to the cleaners it doesn't help her much if just take everything out of the house when she went to work. The only thing keeping me from doing that is that I made a promise not backed up by any law. It needs to be a legal process and that starts with the issuance of the marriage license.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Is Bernie for real? He is pulling huge crowds, 28,000 in Oregon and 27,000 here in Los Angeles. I don't know if any other candidate has come close to the crowds he is amassing.

#FeelTheBern

Are Sanders donors giving their own money, or demanding money from the Clinton's to give to Sanders to make things more "equal" and "fair"?

 

[GoIrish41]

Are Sanders donors giving their own money, or demanding money from the Clinton's to give to Sanders to make things more "equal" and "fair"?

I am guessing, the first one.

 

[pkt77242]

]Elitist is about governing philosophy, not personal wealth. It's a "we politicians know better than you normal slobs" mentality that drives state education, health care, etc.
[/B]
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 4 using Tapatalk.

Huh? One of the biggest drivers of things such as state education and healthcare etc. is that we have a mobile society that moves from place to place and wants a reasonably similar experience as far as basics (education, healthcare, etc.).

 

[phgreek]

I have been known to be a little rough with the keystrokes.

nothing a little snap, crackle, pop and a chisel can't fix.

Ok...I just saw where the justice department seized Hillary's server...that she said she deleted. Color me totally confused. Are they making sure it is clean in light of the actual Top Secret content that was found to be on it? ....Why DOJ?

Edit: wasn't seized...she turned it over. Why now? Why DOJ? Who will do the forensic analysis to actually verify whats been done and when?

 

[pkt77242]

nothing a little snap, crackle, pop and a chisel can't fix.

Ok...I just saw where the justice department seized Hillary's server...that she said she deleted. Color me totally confused. Are they making sure it is clean in light of the actual Top Secret content that was found to be on it? ....Why DOJ?

From my understanding she turned it over to the DOJ which is different from seized. They are investigating into the security of the classified information that was sent via her personal email.

 

[phgreek]

From my understanding she turned it over to the DOJ which is different from seized. They are investigating into the security of the classified information that was sent via her personal email.

yea I noticed see my edit...

 

[connor_in]

From my understanding she turned it over to the DOJ which is different from seized. They are investigating into the security of the classified information that was sent via her personal email.

But I thought we were told that she never had any classified info on that email server? Although as the emails are being released the State Department doesn't seem to agree with her.

 

[Cackalacky]

That's your understanding of marriage?

I didnt claim anything. In fact I clearly said my opinion matters little because in fact my opinion could not change what is. So no, my understanding of marriage is not described in that post.

To be brief I understand and accept marriage in the sense of anthropological terms which defines it as a cultural phenomenon:

The Anthropological definition of a prototypical marriage highlights the general expectations and facets that form this social construct. Within various cultures marriage is symbolically represented through a range of very simple to elaborate weddings. A marriage generally transforms the roles and responsibilities of two individuals within society. For example, an individual’s expectation of personal finance may be transformed to support both him/herself and their spouse. Marriage also sets the implications of permitted sexual access, setting boundaries for what is acceptable and when. However, these implications are also set based on personal preference as well as cultural norms.

Marriage is also a method in which cultural tradition is passed on to the children of the participants. Although the marriage relationship is a ‘traditional’ means for shaping a child’s standing and position in society, non traditional roles also serve as a valid means of raising children within cultural context. Marriage also serves as a means of creating extended families linking the Kin of the individuals.

I also understand that there are myriad acceptable types of marriages and have been for thousands of years whether you think it should or not. Your desires are irrelevant much like my opinion.

I'm married because my wife and I said vows to one another, not because the State of Indiana said "yep, we're cool with that."

Yes. You experienced your culture's version of wedlock and had a very personal relstionship established in the eyes of your community and family. You also signed a piece of paper required by law. That paper ensures you or your wife have equal status, legal protection and rights over your now homogenised personal lives. Also that piece of paper is recognized in every state. Something gays did not have access to. Also Indiana most definitely has to say yep that is cool for you andnyour wife to have legitimate marriage. Sorry hoss.

Who cares if the government has had its hand in marriage for thousands of years? "It's been that way for a long ass time" is probably the worst philosophical argument I've ever heard and could also be used to justify slavery.

WOW.... not even sure where to begin with this. In light of society, its been done that way for a long ass time because it works and builds communities, and creates structure for families, and a host of other societal and cultural based reasons. Its as deeply in grained in societies as familial bonds. Its been a source of conflict resolution for millenia. Hell, in the Old Testament if a dude raped a girl he could pay the father 50 shekels and keep her as his wife. Also slaves did get transeferred in marriages in many cultures for many years. Because they were property. I am not saying that is the argument to justify slavery. My argument is that is such a cultural phenomenon that has been practiced, preserved and modified as needed over the millenia. Obviously we cant count slaves as property now but even they have equal standing under law now.

Want to know why the government has had its hand in marriage (and everything else) for thousands of years? Because people like to exert power over other people. Our Constitution was set up to prevent that kind of control over every facet of our lives.

Like religions? like corporations?

The government HAS a role in it because it always has and it is needed and we allow it as part of a long term social contract. I am not sure about your claim for the Constitution though. It certainly doesnt mention marriage but mentions a whole hell of a lot of things that marriage pertains to particulary the pursuit of life, liberty, and happiness. Enough reasons for a legal decision to have been made that portions of the population were unduly burdened deserved equal standing.

The fact you think you know what marriage should be versus what others know it to be is kind of elitist?

 

[pkt77242]

But I thought we were told that she never had any classified info on that email server? Although as the emails are being released the State Department doesn't seem to agree with her.

A federal official confirmed last week that the FBI had begun a review of the security of Clinton's private email server after a referral last month to the Justice Department from the inspector general overseeing the government's intelligence community. The inspector general expressed concern about a "potential compromise of classified information.''

Sen. Chuck Grassley, R-Iowa, told CBS News Tuesday that two of the emails Clinton gave to the State Department were designated as "Top Secret, Sensitive Compartmented Information," one of the government's most sensitive classifications.

Out of the 30,000 emails Clinton handed over to the State Department for review, four have been confirmed as containing classified material, according to the inspectors general for the State Department and the Office of the Director of National Intelligence.

The the inspector general for the Office of the Director of National Intelligence said Clinton had "potentially hundreds of classified emails" among those she handed over.

Republicans have expressed concerns about potential security risks resulting from Clinton's use of a private email server for official business during her tenure as secretary of State since the story broke in March. Concerns have also been raised that Clinton could have used the private account to bury any damaging emails.

Hillary Clinton to hand over email server to Justice Dept.

So far 4 confirmed.

ETA: It is good that she turned over the servers so that it can be investigated.

 

[Cackalacky]

Huh? One of the biggest drivers of things such as state education and healthcare etc. is that we have a mobile society that moves from place to place and wants a reasonably similar experience as far as basics (education, healthcare, etc.).

Right. Homogenous minimum and resonable standards across states serves multiple societal needs.

 

[Cackalacky]

Sorry for the delay... I was at the ENT Dr. getting stitches and splints out of my beek. Seems the conversation moved on...however

...I totally understand the issue with my definition...in large part it is a co opted definition...and alot off the cuff. Just my view...and my definition leaves room for people of any political persuasion. I am sure there are better definitions from official republicans and official democrats.

I get your point, and yea I suppose you could take Elite as generally belittling the party. I really see it as another "identity" that suffers from all the same issues as any other generalization...but it is something I have a conception of nonetheless.

I hear trump's voice on my TV...gotta go watch this...

No prob. I was in my kung fu class. I appreciate your input but I am gonna stick with the real websters definition, not some dirty canard.

 

[connor_in]

Hillary Clinton to hand over email server to Justice Dept.

So far 4 confirmed.

ETA: It is good that she turned over the servers so that it can be investigated.

New Hillary Clinton emails include 41 marked CLASSIFIED by State Department | Daily Mail Online

Sorry, Hillary Clinton fans: her email errors are definitely newsworthy | Trevor Timm | Comment is free | The Guardian

 

[pkt77242]

New Hillary Clinton emails include 41 marked CLASSIFIED by State Department | Daily Mail Online

Sorry, Hillary Clinton fans: her email errors are definitely newsworthy | Trevor Timm | Comment is free | The Guardian

To be fair some (and possibly most of them) of those 41 were not classified when she was sent them but were upgraded afterwards.

ETA: Not defending her use of a private server as that was stupid (and possibly criminal) just pointing out the facts.

 

[connor_in]

Quick question

Why did HRC and per the second link at least one of her aides turn in emails printed out?

 

[pkt77242]

Quick question

Why did HRC and per the second link at least one of her aides turn in emails printed out?

From what I remember, HRC and her legal representatives did not want to turn over her servers (and didn't believe that they had to turn them over) and thus they printed them off. I could be wrong though.

 

[connor_in]

From what I remember, HRC and her legal representatives did not want to turn over her servers (and didn't believe that they had to turn them over) and thus they printed them off. I could be wrong though.

So instead of turning over the actual emails with all its electronic tags and electronic finger prints it was thought best to be terrifically environmentally UNfriendly and print them off which also made them exponentially more difficult to search. Thus giving her no appearance of trying to seem helpful and above board in the least.

And this makes people enthusiastic to vote for her?

 

[pkt77242]

So instead of turning over the actual emails with all its electronic tags and electronic finger prints it was thought best to be terrifically environmentally UNfriendly and print them off which also made them exponentially more difficult to search. Thus giving her no appearance of trying to seem helpful and above board in the least.

And this makes people enthusiastic to vote for her?

Who is enthusiastic to vote for her? I might hold my nose (and my breath) and vote for her (depending on who her opponent is) but I am by no means enthusiastic about her as a candidate.

 

[connor_in]

Who is enthusiastic to vote for her? I might hold my nose (and my breath) and vote for her (depending on who her opponent is) but I am by no means enthusiastic about her as a candidate.

Please note, I didn't say you explicitly were enthusiastic. It was a question about the general voting public.

 

[yankeehater]

I've said in previous posts that I'm willing to take a closer look at Kasich and even Rand Paul -- but those guys don't look to have much of a chance to make a splash in the GOP pool. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't vote for any other candidate in the GOP field over Hillary -- especially Trump. That slate of candidates is really unappealing to me overall, and there are a couple of lunatics among them. In the Democratic primary, Hillary is running at the back of the pack for me, right now. In order: Sanders, Biden (if he throws his hat in), Webb, OMalley and Hillary. We'll see what happens as the race progresses. All those other guys are already pushing her to the left, where she becomes a more appealing candidate to me. I haven't read her Education plan yet. I like her energy plan. I've got time to figure out who I like best in the Dems if Sanders doesn't look like he can pull off the Miracle of 16. I think any of the folks running from the left would beat Trump handily. I remain astonished that he leads the GOP pack and I think it is a sad indictment on the party.

Please elaborate.....I would love to know who you are making this statement about and why.

 

[GoldenDome]

Apparently his campaign is taking tips from another Clinton.......

Yes, but those crowd numbers are rockstar status. Twice as much as a Laker game here. I love Bernie's message as opposed to the HRC manufactured one. I am just waiting for the buzz on Bernie to calm down. Will HRC get mowed over again?

 

[BGIF]

To be fair some (and possibly most of them) of those 41 were not classified when she was sent them but were upgraded afterwards.

ETA: Not defending her use of a private server as that was stupid (and possibly criminal) just pointing out the facts.

To be fair whose "facts" were you pointing out?

Hillary's alleged story or the interpretation of two Brit news outlets?

She still has the responsibility to secure government documents in a proper environment. A Locked safe, encryption, and personnel with the appropriate clearances to handle such documents come to mind. Three thumb drives in her non-cleared attorney's office is non-compliant.

So "what does it matter, anyway?"Right?

The inspector general determined that there were confidential documents that came in and went through her system according to the ABC News story.

Clinton Relents, Gives up Possession of Private Email Server - ABC News

 

[pkt77242]

To be fair whose "facts" were you pointing out?

Hillary's alleged story or the interpretation of two Brit news outlets?

She still has the responsibility to secure government documents in a proper environment. A Locked safe, encryption, and personnel with the appropriate clearances to handle such documents come to mind. Three thumb drives in her non-cleared attorney's office is non-compliant.

So "what does it matter, anyway?"Right?

The inspector general determined that there were confidential documents that came in and went through her system according to the ABC News story.

Clinton Relents, Gives up Possession of Private Email Server - ABC News

From the article you posted.

The State Department previously had said it was comfortable with Kendall keeping the emails at his Washington law office.

The state department originally said it was ok for him to keep them in his office then changed their mind (not that I think it was the proper way to handle the information but you are leaving an important detail out). Also on the previous page I pointed out that at least 4 emails that passed through her server contained confidential emails at the time they were sent/received. My objection was to the headline of 41 emails marked classified were in her email release when many of them became classified after the fact. I stand by that.