[NFL] vBook: Colts vs Patriots (Deflategate)

[Irish YJ]

Eh. I mean this report pretty much says what people thought from day one. They might have done something, and there is no proof. And the balls were never properly checked before the game. There won't be any penalties, Kraft is pissed and the NFL can't risk that.

The NFL can't risk what?

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

The manner in which the findings were given tells us basically nothing about the underlying level of evidence. There is apparently a specific standard to levy punishment ("more probable than not") and they determined the evidence met that standard.

 

[irishfan]

The NFL can't risk what?

I guess by the "NFL", I meant Goodell. Kraft is his biggest supporter. The 32 owners are essentially Goodell's "bosses." He can't risk annoying his #1 supporter due to circumstantial evidence. Kraft is already pissed if his public statement is any indication. Brady is the golden boy around here. Any punishment for him without concrete evidence would be a mistake by Goodell IMO. Being on Kraft's bad side would not be ideal.

 

[IrishLion]

To me, it sounds like they found evidence, and more than just a single football a bit below the line, but they are trying to soften the blow.

 

[IrishLax]

I guess by the "NFL", I meant Goodell. Kraft is his biggest supporter. The 32 owners are essentially Goodell's "bosses." He can't risk annoying his #1 supporter due to circumstantial evidence. Kraft is already pissed if his public statement is any indication. Brady is the golden boy around here. Any punishment for him without concrete evidence would be a mistake by Goodell IMO. Being on Kraft's bad side would not be ideal.

Here's the thing... the evidence is concrete. Unless you believe that the two employees in question elaborately fabricated a conspiracy over months to frame Brady for deflating balls. There is no doubt the balls were deflated, and there is no doubt that two people discussed intentionally deflating balls.

The text messages are damning. Brady not turning over his phone is hilarious. Brady lying about knowing who McNally is puts him in a really bad light. There is more than enough circumstantial evidence to conclude that Brady was cheating, and if he doesn't get a suspension that's going to be a complete failure by the NFL.

 

[IrishLax]

Serious question... have you guys not read the text messages? And are you not aware that Brady lied about his relationship with the people directly implicated?

 

[irishfan]

Serious question... have you guys not read the text messages? And are you not aware that Brady lied about his relationship with the people directly implicated?

I read the texts. There were enough gay-jokes in there like "I cant wait to give you the needle this week " for me to think that Brady bitched them out for not deflating the balls properly that it turned into a private joke between the two. There are also texts where they lament the fact that Brady was correct that the PSI of balls was at 16....so.....there's a lot of ways to read into those texts. The texts read like two guys who disliked Brady and we're planning on going out of their way to mess up the footballs....not two guys who were heavily involved in some huge scheme.

Personally, I think that they deflated the balls when possible as requested by Brady, but don't think it's a big deal. Still waiting on that investigation into Rodgers for admitting to over-inflating the balls....I have a feeling it will be a long wait. Regardless, it will be very difficult to pin this on Brady without definitive proof, and the last thing Goodell needs is Kraft out for blood if the league tries to give a penalty to Brady.

3 of the 4 Colts' footballs were also deflated below 12.5 at halftime. Although the pressure wasn't recorded pre-game so tough to tell if they dropped much or not. Either way, I don't think you can pin this on Brady since A) it's circumstantial and B) the NFL didn't follow it's own protcol. If they had, they could've actually maybe caught the Pats in the act.

 

[IrishLax]

I read the texts. There were enough gay-jokes in there like "I cant wait to give you the needle this week " for me to think that Brady bitched them out for not deflating the balls properly that it turned into a private joke between the two. There are also texts where they lament the fact that Brady was correct that the PSI of balls was at 16....so.....there's a lot of ways to read into those texts. The texts read like two guys who disliked Brady and we're planning on going out of their way to mess up the footballs....not two guys who were heavily involved in some huge scheme.

Personally, I think that they deflated the balls when possible as requested by Brady, but don't think it's a big deal. Still waiting on that investigation into Rodgers for admitting to over-inflating the balls....I have a feeling it will be a long wait. Regardless, it will be very difficult to pin this on Brady without definitive proof, and the last thing Goodell needs is Kraft out for blood if the league tries to give a penalty to Brady.

3 of the 4 Colts' footballs were also deflated below 12.5 at halftime. Although the pressure wasn't recorded pre-game so tough to tell if they dropped much or not. Either way, I don't think you can pin this on Brady since A) it's circumstantial and B) the NFL didn't follow it's own protcol. If they had, they could've actually maybe caught the Pats in the act.

My thing is... if Brady had turned over his phone, we'd have a much clearer picture. He didn't, so I can only assume the worst. Brady also denied knowing or knowing of the people involved, which was just a flat out lie.

Why is he lying if he has nothing to hide? It seems quite clear to me that he must've instructed them at some point to keep the balls at a certain PSI that he preferred, and this PSI was likely below the acceptable level.

So the next question is... what do you do about? I don't think it's a big deal, but I do think that if you catch someone cheating there has to be some punishment. A fine, a suspension, whatever. If there are no consequences to obvious cheating, then what is the point of rules?

 

[IrishLion]

From the report:

Although we believe that a number of the communications between Jastremski and McNally were attempts at humor, based on the evidence and the communications in their entirety, we believe that McNally and Jastremski were joking about events in which they were actually participating that involved the deflation of footballs in violation of the Playing Rules.

We also note that there is less direct evidence linking Brady to tampering activities than either McNally or Jastremski. We nevertheless believe, based on the totality of the evidence, that it is more probable than not that Brady was at least generally aware of the inappropriate activities of McNally and Jastremski involving the release of air from Patriots game balls. Evidence of Brady‟s awareness appears in text communications between McNally and Jastremski.

So basically, they know for a fact that these two bros deflated balls.

And, as long as you know how to use context clues at least as efficiently as a third grader, you know that Brady wanted it done and knew all about it.

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

The Patriots also appear to have attempted to obstruct or shorten the investigation by refusing to allow follow-up interviews with their employees.

And whaddaya know? They're not going to fight the findings.

 

[Irish#1]

Now we have a report they cheated. Now comes the rationalization that it was okay.

 

[irishfan]

The Patriots also appear to have attempted to obstruct or shorten the investigation by refusing to allow follow-up interviews with their employees.

And whaddaya know? They're not going to fight the findings.

Kraft said they denied a 5th interview with a part-time employee.

Now we have a report they cheated. Now comes the rationalization that it was okay.

I was always rationalizing lol. There was always enough smoke, plus I didn't think it was a huge bending of the rules so I thought it was okay. Not to mention the CBS announcers giggling over Rodgers over-inflating his footballs made me think it wasn't a big deal to under-inflate. The reports from Boston yesterday saying the report was coming and that it would make the Colts look guilty (they were half-true...at least they knew it was coming today) made me somewhat optimistic they wouldn't be found guilty.

Either way, it's an incredibly unique situation. The most detailed investigation possible concluded that it is "more probable than not" that they were guilty. Hard to convict anyone despite every non-Pats fan being out for blood.

I haven't had the chance to read the report yet, since I've had an unfortunately busy day at work. Is there any mention of the footballs being measured pre-game? If so, there isn't any penalty for handing in under-inflated footballs to the refs pre-game I believe? This still, to me, seems to be more or less an issue of the NFL not following protocol because the refs don't believe PSI to be a big deal.

Edit: one month away from Year 9 on IE and I finally learned how to multi-quote (dancing banana thing that I don't know how to insert)

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

It was the most detailed investigation possible conducted in the absence of the full cooperation of the Patriots and Tom Brady.

 

[irishfan]

It was the most detailed investigation possible conducted in the absence of the full cooperation of the Patriots and Tom Brady.

Brady didn't have over phone/emails. Admittedly bad, but anything he sent to the equipment guys would show up on their phones that they handed over. He texted one of them after the story broke...nothing before it. Who the hell knows what he has on his phone. Maybe he has Giselle nudes....or he's sent her dick pics a la Verlander....or he's gay...or he's buying drugs...I don't really blame him for not handing over his phone, especially, because like I said, any texts he sent would show up on the equipment guys' phone records which were handed over.

And they denied a 5th interview for one of the equipement guys. They cooperated fully besides that. Hell, they willingly handed over video of one of the ballboys going into the restroom pre-game.

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

Brady didn't have over phone/emails. Admittedly bad, but anything he sent to the equipment guys would show up on their phones that they handed over. He texted one of them after the story broke...nothing before it. Who the hell knows what he has on his phone. Maybe he has Giselle nudes...or he's gay...or he's buying drugs...I don't really blame him for not handing over his phone, especially, because like I said, any texts he sent would show up on the equipment guys' phone records which were handed over.

And they denied a 5th interview for one of the equipement guys. They cooperated fully besides that. Hell, they willingly handed over video of one of the ballboys going into the restroom pre-game.

I'm not saying their motivations are necessarily nefarious (though Brady pretty much had to understand he is going to get punished for withholding - and I understand he may be motivated by concerns that have nothing to do with football). I disagree with the notion that the parties involved are getting burned based on speculative conclusions. NE cedes the moral high ground on that one when they act to limit access to information.

 

[Irish YJ]

I guess by the "NFL", I meant Goodell. Kraft is his biggest supporter. The 32 owners are essentially Goodell's "bosses." He can't risk annoying his #1 supporter due to circumstantial evidence. Kraft is already pissed if his public statement is any indication. Brady is the golden boy around here. Any punishment for him without concrete evidence would be a mistake by Goodell IMO. Being on Kraft's bad side would not be ideal.

I think there is enough disgust by the other coaches regarding the Patriots historical behavior that Goodell really doesn't have to worry. There is also enough talk out there about Goodell being in Kraft's pocket that Kraft can't afford to sweep this under a rug. Brady is the golden boy around NE, not in the other 31 NFL cities. Great QB, but not the golden boy.

Just glad we finally have resolution. Tired of hearing all the Pats fans claim witch hunt. Dirty organization and way too much smoke over the years not be a few fires.

oh, and fvck Brady and Michigan.

 

[Irish YJ]

Now we have a report they cheated. Now comes the rationalization that it was okay.

but everybody else does it. and a few under inflated balls doesn't take away from a XX point win...

 

[ShamrockOnHelmet]

Kraft may not be the biggest dirtbag in america, but he's certainly in the honorable mention category.

 

[irishfan]

but everybody else does it. and a few under inflated balls doesn't take away from a XX point win...

Was XX less painful than typing "38" ? If they respond like they did to Spygate, they'll beat the colts by 60 next year. That is, of course, assuming Brady isn't suspended for that game.

 

[Irish YJ]

Was XX less painful than typing "38" ? If they respond like they did to Spygate, they'll beat the colts by 60 next year. That is, of course, assuming Brady isn't suspended for that game.

laziness. just too lazy to look it up. and figured some patriots fan would take the bait. thank you.

 

[Irish YJ]

Tom Brady Sr. says his son is victim of NFL 'Framegate'

 

[Bubbles]

Kraft may not be the biggest dirtbag in america, but he's certainly in the honorable mention category.

Yeah, what a dick.

 

[Luckylucci]

Yeah, what a dick.

I don't care whether we classify him as a dirtbag or not but using this as your argument is pretty silly. The super rich or wealthy all give money to charity for financial and social benefits, not because they're good human beings. When you donate to a charitable organization or a non-profit group, the amount you donate is tax deductible. But not only is the money you give tax deductible, so are the amounts you spend on travel, parking costs and even convention and event fees that are related to the non-profit group, as long as you are not being reimbursed by the charity for these expenses. So pulling his bio and saying look he's just a swell human being is quite ridiculous.

 

[jimmymac]

I don't care whether we classify him as a dirtbag or not but using this as your argument is pretty silly. The super rich or wealthy all give money to charity for financial and social benefits, not because they're good human beings. When you donate to a charitable organization or a non-profit group, the amount you donate is tax deductible. But not only is the money you give tax deductible, so are the amounts you spend on travel, parking costs and even convention and event fees that are related to the non-profit group, as long as you are not being reimbursed by the charity for these expenses. So pulling his bio and saying look he's just a swell human being is quite ridiculous.

Only 50% is deductible... And I think it's not fair to say they donate with the purpose of deducting taxes. Like they really care about that drop in the bucket... Sure it creates goodwill for them, but if I had that amount of money, I would do my best to give back because I could not because it would save me some tax money, which likely won't be thaaat much for them at the end of the day with other items they can itemize.

 

[Bubbles]

Yeah, my bad....should have used some of my personal anecdotes from our relationship. GMAFB....the Krafts are well known, prodigious philanthropists for many causes close to them.

I posted a link with some information in response to a curt, idiotic statement with no facts or information other than a personal bias.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

And I still don't care.

 

[ShamrockOnHelmet]

Yeah, my bad....should have used some of my personal anecdotes from our relationship. GMAFB....the Krafts are well known, prodigious philanthropists for many causes close to them.

I posted a link with some information in response to a curt, idiotic statement with no facts or information other than a personal bias.

Lol. How about enabling, nay, facilitating out and out fraud for personal gain.? That's not my curt or idiotic statement, that complete fact at this point. Deny all you want, your loser franchise is as pathetic as Krafts attempts to save his rep.

 

[Bubbles]

Proof that Robert Kraft has had any kind of knowledge of any of this beforehand? A link...some facts? Anything other than mouth-breathing, goose-stepping hater parade?

I'll wait.

 

[dad4aa]

Only 50% is deductible... And I think it's not fair to say they donate with the purpose of deducting taxes. Like they really care about that drop in the bucket... Sure it creates goodwill for them, but if I had that amount of money, I would do my best to give back because I could not because it would save me some tax money, which likely won't be thaaat much for them at the end of the day with other items they can itemize.

Not true. You can deduct 100% of your charitable contributions up to 50% of your adjusted gross income. Plus you can carry excess contributioins forward for up to 5 years.

 

[ShamrockOnHelmet]

Proof that Robert Kraft has had any kind of knowledge of any of this beforehand? A link...some facts? Anything other than mouth-breathing, goose-stepping hater parade?

I'll wait.

Indeed