#3 Notre Dame vs. #1 Kentucky (Elite 8)

[NDgradstudent]

I just got back from the Q (staying with a family member in Ohio). Some thoughts on the game:

(1) Really tough to way to lose. FSU game esque. I was feeling pretty good late, it seemed like we always had an answer. Frustrating.

(2) Obviously in a close game if any number of things had happened we would have won.

(3) It is easy to zone in on the missed FTs late, especially since (as I recall) we made all of them to start the game- we finished 10-13 from the line. Not bad. 12-13 is pretty good and that would have only sent it to OT.

(4) Can't really get on Brey- (a) in my view, you don't foul when the game is tied. (b) I think they might have taken the shot sooner on the second to last possession there, maybe leaving 45-50 seconds on the clock rather than 38. But remember even that late shot Grant took didn't hit the rim (even though ND got the rebound). If it had hit the rim, we can have pretty much the last shot. Also, suppose that we take the shot earlier and still miss: there is still a good chance that KY scores on the next possession, and even if there are 20 seconds left there are no guarantees we make a shot. Their defense was pretty good late. So while I think there is a strong case for taking the shot sooner, it is by no means an obvious call. You want a good look.

(5) Apart from the late-game events, the main problem was the 3 point shot. They went 4-8 from 3, we went 4-14. Make one more 3 and we probably win, make two more 3s and we almost certainly win. In my view, that is biggest takeaway- that is something we have done all year that we could not do enough of tonight.

 

[IrishLax]

When Auguste does nothing more than step away that's a 100% conversion rate.....at least make him shoot the f/t's and save some energy for us since we are only 7 deep.

Not sure i've posted in regular season threads anything against Brey...but keep reaching.

I did post on ONE postseason game other than this about his poor game plan...luckily the "mediocre" players pulled that one out.

Probably best if you put me on ignore since you don't like my opinions. Just a thought

Or you can stop posting the drivel about Brey's "failures," just a thought.

Do you want me to dig up the many posts from the Butler thread (where I agreed with most of your points despite my apparent love of "slamming" you) and others? I'll do it tomorrow once I'm at a computer if you want. Or you can go delete them now.

 

[Rocknes Ghost]

I just got back from the Q (staying with a family member in Ohio). Some thoughts on the game:

(1) Really tough to way to lose. FSU game esque. I was feeling pretty good late, it seemed like we always had an answer. Frustrating.

(2) Obviously in a close game if any number of things had happened we would have won.

(3) It is easy to zone in on the missed FTs late, especially since (as I recall) we made all of them to start the game- we finished 10-13 from the line. Not bad. 12-13 is pretty good and that would have only sent it to OT.

(4) Can't really get on Brey- (a) in my view, you don't foul when the game is tied. (b) I think they might have taken the shot sooner on the second to last possession there, maybe leaving 45-50 seconds on the clock rather than 38. But remember even that late shot Grant took didn't hit the rim (even though ND got the rebound). If it had hit the rim, we can have pretty much the last shot. Also, suppose that we take the shot earlier and still miss: there is still a good chance that KY scores on the next possession, and even if there are 20 seconds left there are no guarantees we make a shot. Their defense was pretty good late. So while I think there is a strong case for taking the shot sooner, it is by no means an obvious call. You want a good look.

(5) Apart from the late-game events, the main problem was the 3 point shot. They went 4-8 from 3, we went 4-14. Make one more 3 and we probably win, make two more 3s and we almost certainly win. In my view, that is biggest takeaway- that is something we have done all year that we could not do enough of tonight.

Yeah it's easy to critique now but I was also yelling to go for the 2 for 1 in the last minute. I always want the ball last. Especially if Jerian is just goin to milk the clock and shoot a step back anyways. Might as well take that early and then get another good possession to end.

 

[irishff1014]

Yeah it will be a good team. Thy will miss Pat more then Grant I believe. He really brought a unique game and an incredible toughness. Allowed them to play different than everyone else because of his ability to guard a 4 and rebound.

They will be good next year and the future is bright. But this team is that close to being the best team in the country right now and that's not easy to field at ND (or anywhere). I'll certainly remember this run and team a long time. Dreamed about this kind of team while sleeping on the grate by Gate 11 of the JACC to keep warm...this was a special group.

I don't think vasturia will rebound like Pat but he should be very good and effective next year. He can shoot from outside just like pat and he actually looked better going to the basket IMO.

 

[IrishLax]

Also, neg reps when you can't defend your point well are cute. Good thing there were many more people who agreed with my stance that you were needlessly and illogically shitting on someone who's coaching was the primary reason ND had a chance to win, not why they lost.

 

[loomis41973]

Or you can stop posting the drivel about Brey's "failures," just a thought.

Do you want me to dig up the many posts from the Butler thread (where I agreed with most of your points despite my apparent love of "slamming" you) and others? I'll do it tomorrow once I'm at a computer if you want. Or you can go delete them now.

Like i said ONE post season thread.....Butler was post season right>????? Was a poor game plan "in my opinion" Best to let it lay, unless you are bored. Season is over and you won't change my mind.

 

[loomis41973]

Also, neg reps when you can't defend your point well are cute. Good thing there were many more people who agreed with my stance that you were needlessly and illogically shitting on someone who's coaching was the primary reason ND had a chance to win, not why they lost.

Awww...so touching you are into internet "rep" Lol...how many people repped me for defending my useless points???? Any idea?

 

[IrishLax]

Like i said ONE post season thread.....Butler was post season right>????? Was a poor game plan "in my opinion" Best to let it lay, unless you are bored. Season is over and you won't change my mind.

I don't give a crap about changing your mind, I give a crap about you being an irrational douche to a coach that just lead ND to its best season in decades. You're right, it was only the Butler thread, still 100% of your posting on ND basketball has been of the variety I described. Thought it was a larger sample size but it was actually just a ton of posts in that thread.

Whatever. Sure, Brey failed the team... like he always does... failed them straight to an ACC championship and within seconds of beating a super team to go to the final four. What a mistake prone terrible coach that costs his team full of superstars games.

 

[pkt77242]

Damn it Lax, stop being ratIonal and logical.

 

[Grahambo]

Awww...so touching you are into internet "rep" Lol...how many people repped me for defending my useless points???? Any idea?

Dude..let it go.

 

[IrishLax]

Awww...so touching you are into internet "rep" Lol...how many people repped me for defending my useless points???? Any idea?

It takes a special kind of hypocrite to take the time to neg rep someone... and then try to get on them for "caring" about Internet reps. Do you not appreciate the cognitive dissonance required to make this post?

Anyways, have the rest of the night off and when you come back tomorrow I hope you post less irrational, misguided hate on a great coach who coached a great game.

 

[NDgradstudent]

I keep hearing about how UK made their last nine shots...I mean, we made five of our last nine, so its not like we stopped scoring (the last one was Grant's deep 3 to give us back the lead). The last three (really the last two) were the problem. They probably could have been better executed, but how much differently should they have been drawn up? You count on your guys to take quality shots.

People are blaming Grant a bit, which is fair enough I guess, but he really should not have had to make those shots. If we had just hit one or two more 3s, and we would not have been hostages to fortune is this way. It may have been that the big 3 he hit went to his head a bit.

 

[nsideirish]

ON WISCONSIN

 

[Kingbish01]

What a fantastic year, I wish it would have ended differently but my hats off to Brey and his team.

 

[Crazy Balki]

I wasn't able to post for the last 8 hours, so just to catch up:

Way to go!
Alright!
Yes!
YES!
YEEEESSSS!!!
NOOOO!!!!
YEEEESSSSSSS!!!!!
WE WERE SO CLOSE!!!! So close!

With that out of the way, hard to be mad at the team. They played well, minus the last minute, and this will only help the program moving forward. I really like this team coming back in 2016. Losing Grant and Connaughton sucks, but getting back pretty much everybody and adding a really good recruiting class should more than suffice for those losses. Competing for another ACC crown and another Sweet 16-Elite 8 appearance is definitely not out of the question.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

When will coaches realize that at the end of the game, say the last 3 mins (varies), that they should NOT change their offense.

At no point tonight did jerian run iso, and force shots.
We moved the ball, beautifully.

Coaches baffle me. They buy into this "let's let our guy (lebrons, KDs, etc) take over."

Why not continue to run the offense the way that got you the lead?

When you start to play the clock game, you're no longer playing your A game.

Period.

 

[AvesEvo]

When will coaches realize that at the end of the game, say the last 3 mins (varies), that they should NOT change their offense.

At no point tonight did jerian run iso, and force shots.
We moved the ball, beautifully.

Coaches baffle me. They buy into this "let's let our guy (lebrons, KDs, etc) take over."

Why not continue to run the offense the way that got you the lead?

When you start to play the clock game, you're no longer playing your A game.

Period.

Agreed, Grant's solo performance the last two possessions didn't make sense to me, maybe Brey addressed it post game, but ND is team basketball, non 1 on 1.

Great, great season!

 

[Irish2155]

One hell of a game. ND should have pulled it off. Congrats to the team on a great season.

 

[dang227]

Good article on Grant. It seems he called those isolation plays.

http://www.ndinsider.com/basketball...b9c-d5bf-11e4-845c-336f4b42dda5.html?mode=jqm

 

[BeauBenken]

Anyone who is blaming a game lost to Kentucky by 2 when we had plenty of opportunities to pull it out on Coach Brey needs to chill. I get being bummed after losing a shot at the Final Four, but ND showed the world tonight that they are the real deal. That they can really, really, really play some ball.

Congrats Notre Dame on an incredible season. It surely won't be forgotten.

 

[IrishLax]

When will coaches realize that at the end of the game, say the last 3 mins (varies), that they should NOT change their offense.

At no point tonight did jerian run iso, and force shots.
We moved the ball, beautifully.

Coaches baffle me. They buy into this "let's let our guy (lebrons, KDs, etc) take over."

Why not continue to run the offense the way that got you the lead?

When you start to play the clock game, you're no longer playing your A game.

Period.

Agreed, Grant's solo performance the last two possessions didn't make sense to me, maybe Brey addressed it post game, but ND is team basketball, non 1 on 1.

Great, great season!

Yeah, Brey addressed it post game. In short, while Brey isn't going to throw anyone under the bus, he said that one of the reasons he took the timeouts he did was because the offense was stagnating and he wanted them to go back to running it how they were earlier. It was a big moment and the team got tight against great defense, he definitely didn't call isolation plays though.

 

[ThePiombino]

Anyone who is blaming a game lost to Kentucky by 2 when we had plenty of opportunities to pull it out on Coach Brey needs to chill. I get being bummed after losing a shot at the Final Four, but ND showed the world tonight that they are the real deal. That they can really, really, really play some ball.

Congrats Notre Dame on an incredible season. It surely won't be forgotten.

Agreed. This is one of those losses that opens eyes and progresses the program. Think ND/FSU this year, before the meltdown of course.

 

[EifertPower]

Some quick thoughts on the game. Great game which had to be a potential to be the greatest game in NCAA history. Had ND beaten Kentucky last night, i think it surpasses the Duke-Kentucky game in 1992.

1. I think ND wasted its final 2 timeouts and that haunted him. The one where it looked like ND was in trouble on the KY press, Brey jumped the gun a second or two too soon in calling it. ND had just broken the press as Brey called a timeout, leaving them with 1 left. I also wouldn't have called a timeout with 36 seconds left. There was less than 1 on the shot clock, and you had virtually no chance to score. The game at that point was going to come down to whether ND could stop KY on the next possession and how much time they would have left after that. The timeout basically gave KY a time to design their play and screwed ND if KY scored at the end (which they did).

2. Hated the final 3 possession on offense with Grant going isolation after having loved virtually every other ND possession all game.

3. I would have gone 2-for-1 when ND rebounded the ball with 1:12 left. I would have tried to get a shot off at around 45 seconds, to ensure KY would not have had the final possession.

4. When it was 34 seconds left and tied and KY ball, I would have fouled KY. They were in the 1-and-1 and I thought the most important thing in that spot was having the ball last in the game with a chance to win. Foul KY with about 15 seconds left and even if they make both free throws, i still would have preferred that and designed a play for a 3-pointer to win at the buzzer than taking my luck in trying to stop KY to force OT.

 

[Fbolt]

My kids last night were yelling at the TV "Jelly" for an ND make and "Peanut Butter" for KY misses. Absolutely hilarious. All. Game. Long. Disappointing loss.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

Did anyone else notice that Grant could've pump faked on either of his last two shots and then drawn the foul for 3 free throws? Kentucky was out of control trying to block his shot.

I wish he would've been calm enough to realize, especially on that last shot. Oh well, great run this year.

 

[irishfan]

--That was the FSU football game all over again.

--Can't even pretend to be happy with a close loss. We were the better team IMO regardless of their talent. It's not like we played out of this world.

--Great year, but this really really really stings. We bring back 5 of our top 7 guys....hoping that experience can allow us to make another run next season.

 

[Irish Insanity]

Did anyone else notice that Grant could've pump faked on either of his last two shots and then drawn the foul for 3 free throws? Kentucky was out of control trying to block his shot.

I wish he would've been calm enough to realize, especially on that last shot. Oh well, great run this year.

I don't think he had time on the last shot, and the one guy that jumped an flew past him wouldn't have had contact.

It's easy for us all to pick out the 1 or 2 things that we could have done different. Lets not forget the players that left it all on the court, and the game plan Brey put together, to put us in the position of down 2 with 6 seconds left. There wasn't a person outside of our fan base that gave us a shot. Most of our fan base didn't either. Hell the line was over 10. We had a great season. Far from a disappointing one.

 

[IrishLax]

Some quick thoughts on the game. Great game which had to be a potential to be the greatest game in NCAA history. Had ND beaten Kentucky last night, i think it surpasses the Duke-Kentucky game in 1992.

1. I think ND wasted its final 2 timeouts and that haunted him. The one where it looked like ND was in trouble on the KY press, Brey jumped the gun a second or two too soon in calling it. ND had just broken the press as Brey called a timeout, leaving them with 1 left. I also wouldn't have called a timeout with 36 seconds left. There was less than 1 on the shot clock, and you had virtually no chance to score. The game at that point was going to come down to whether ND could stop KY on the next possession and how much time they would have left after that. The timeout basically gave KY a time to design their play and screwed ND if KY scored at the end (which they did).

2. Hated the final 3 possession on offense with Grant going isolation after having loved virtually every other ND possession all game.

3. I would have gone 2-for-1 when ND rebounded the ball with 1:12 left. I would have tried to get a shot off at around 45 seconds, to ensure KY would not have had the final possession.

4. When it was 34 seconds left and tied and KY ball, I would have fouled KY. They were in the 1-and-1 and I thought the most important thing in that spot was having the ball last in the game with a chance to win. Foul KY with about 15 seconds left and even if they make both free throws, i still would have preferred that and designed a play for a 3-pointer to win at the buzzer than taking my luck in trying to stop KY to force OT.

I agree with everything here, it's interesting because per Brey #1 was in part to try to get rid of #2... and it didn't work. He was trying to buy them rest and get them to calm down and run the offense like they had all game instead of playing hero ball.

To number 3, this was a huge tactical error. It was noted after the game that they were instructed to go at like ~10-15 seconds left on shot clock (so 45-50 second on game clock) in order to go 2-for-1 on possession but the Kentucky defense just got to them. Shame.

To number 4, I said this as soon as Kentucky got the ball. Foul their worst free throw shooter as early in the clock as possible was my thought. Gives you a chance to win/tie at the end. I'm not 100% sure this is the right call percentage wise, but I thought it was the prudent choice given that Kentucky hadn't missed a shot in 10+ minutes.

 

[ACamp1900]

--That was the FSU football game all over again.

--Can't even pretend to be happy with a close loss. We were the better team IMO regardless of their talent. It's not like we played out of this world.

--Great year, but this really really really stings. We bring back 5 of our top 7 guys....hoping that experience can allow us to make another run next season.

They lose Grant and Connaughton right? That's going to be hard to over come...

 

[IrishLax]

They lose Grant and Connaughton right? That's going to be hard to over come...

Unless Beachem takes a huge step forward or some freshman play at a high level, it seems very difficult to maybe impossible. But Vasturia is great as is Jackson and if Auguste plays how he did last night that's going to be crazy effective on offense. And then you have Colson, who can play the 4 probably. So it seems like the team will be worse offensively (on paper) but possibly better on defense.