American Sniper: "Pro-war bias?"

[greyhammer90]

But it does disprove that Kyle's actions automatically make him a demented sociopath, killing for fun or sport.

First, no it doesn't. One (I'm assuming the author of that post is a war vet) war vet's experience and mindset is not proof of the mindset of Kyle. Proof negative is an awfully difficult thing to come by.

Second, where did I say that he was a sociopath killing for fun or sport? I said that the person Irishlax described sounded like the classic definition of a psychopath. I have no idea if what Lax said was true, or how mischaracterized it might be. I haven't read his autobiography, or seen the movie.

 

[kmoose]

The language used before the war always unambiguously referred to an active WMD program and focused on a nuclear threat. The fact that we dug up some old chemical weapons is not some sort of "checkmate libs" argument that validates the rhetoric used to sell our country and the world on war.

I don't know where the hell you got all of that. If you had read through the thread, you would know that someone claimed that Kyle had made up a story about WMDs in his autobiography. I was simply responding to that accusation.

 

[FDNYIrish1]

I'm saying that people are not good or bad. I'm saying that people are mostly the same.

This guy again. You just can't help yourself I guess.

Noone on this board has ever had to make the decisions that Chris Kyle did on a regular basis. The power to have to decide who lives and dies in an instant to protect the lives of others. I can't imagine the strain it put on him to come to grips with these decisions, or what he had to do to justify and make sense of them in his mind. Maybe to him, it had to be black and white. There could be no grey, or our soldiers die.

 

[Wild Bill]

Yep. I know you're an independent but most of the time your criticisms of politicians here usually have an R behind their name. In the case of the Iraq War, it's fair to spread the blame around to all who supported it.

To be fair, I'd ship Hilary, Pelosi, Boehner, and McCain all to the same retirement home if I could.

Sounds good, provided Hilary and Pelosi are infertile. I have serious doubts either would be able to resist Boehner's man-tan and drunken advances. The last thing we need is a Boehner/Pelosi love child.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Sounds good, provided Hilary and Pelosi are infertile. I have serious doubts either would be able to resist Boehner's man-tan and drunken advances. The last thing we need is a Boehner/Pelosi love child.

Is it really a tan? If I recall correctly, Wonka's Oompa Loompas didn't get out of the factory much.

 

[kmoose]

First, no it doesn't. One (I'm assuming the author of that post is a war vet) war vet's experience and mindset is not proof of the mindset of Kyle. Proof negative is an awfully difficult thing to come by.

Second, where did I say that he was a sociopath killing for fun or sport? I said that the person Irishlax described sounded like the classic definition of a psychopath. I have no idea if what Lax said was true, or how mischaracterized it might be. I haven't read his autobiography, or seen the movie.

First, yes it does. If A = B or C, and you can't prove that there even is a C, then A is always going to automatically equal B. Once you show that C exists, then the statement that A automatically equals B is false, because it could equal C, not B.

I didn't say that you said he was a sociopath killing for fun or sport. But Donnie Narco, whose post Irishbounty was responding to, did say that he thought Kyle enjoyed killing.

In my opinion, Chris Kyle was a sick man who enjoyed killing and fabricated many ridiculous stories in his autobiography, and there should not be a movie praising him. The movie should have been focused on PTSD of veterans and not him killing Iraqis.

 

[#1rish]

Great article.

The Real Lesson Of ‘American Sniper’: Evil Is For Real | TheBlaze.com

 

[PANDFAN]

Great article.

The Real Lesson Of ‘American Sniper’: Evil Is For Real | TheBlaze.com

great article! thanks

 

[kmoose]

I wonder about something.......


If American Sniper is glorifying war by glorifying the exploits of Chris Kyle, then how come no one is complaining about Unbroken?

 

[Irishbounty28]

Great article.

The Real Lesson Of ‘American Sniper’: Evil Is For Real | TheBlaze.com

Thoroughly enjoyed that article. Thanks Man!

 

[BobbyMac]

This guy again. You just can't help yourself I guess.

Noone on this board has ever had to make the decisions that Chris Kyle did on a regular basis. The power to have to decide who lives and dies in an instant to protect the lives of others. I can't imagine the strain it put on him to come to grips with these decisions, or what he had to do to justify and make sense of them in his mind. Maybe to him, it had to be black and white. There could be no grey, or our soldiers die.

Actually, there is a retired Army sniper on this board.

.

 

[Irish#1]

Great article.

The Real Lesson Of ‘American Sniper’: Evil Is For Real | TheBlaze.com

Yes it is. Thanks

 

[DonnieNarco]

First, yes it does. If A = B or C, and you can't prove that there even is a C, then A is always going to automatically equal B. Once you show that C exists, then the statement that A automatically equals B is false, because it could equal C, not B.

I didn't say that you said he was a sociopath killing for fun or sport. But Donnie Narco, whose post Irishbounty was responding to, did say that he thought Kyle enjoyed killing.

Chris Kyle said

"There's another question people ask a lot: 'Did it bother you killing so many people in Iraq?' I tell them, 'No.' … I loved what I did. … I'm not lying or exaggerating to say it was fun."

 

[BobbyMac]

I'm looking forward to seeing the movie someday. I own the book but I want to see Eastwood's version first. I am nervous about seeing it in a theater because of a powerful experience I had when I went to the opening night of Saving Private Ryan. There was a group of 10 or so WWII vets in their VFW gear sitting in front of me. Many of them openly cried at different times throughout the movie. It was a truly overwhelming. 50 years later and these guys were instantly 18-25 year old's again. Half of the theater lined up to thank them after the show. Nobody had a dry eye. That has stuck with me through the years and it gives me an uneasy feeling. I'm glad I was part of it and had the ability to look into their eyes and thank them for their service but it is also haunting.

The following weekend, I asked my Grandfather, who served under Montgomery in North Africa and Italy if I could take him to see it. He said, "I don't want to see that shit. I see it every god damn night."

My brother in law was an infantry sniper in Iraq during Desert storm and has never mentioned any particulars about the job other than he and his spotter were assigned to a spook with "a list". We talk about military stuff all the time but I don't ask about his personal experiences. I learned not to from my Grandfather. He doesn't share, I understand. I sent him movie passes so they could go see it, he'll take the kids to see Strange Magic instead. He's definitely a been there, done that guy.

War is hell, then, now and tomorrow.

I didn't serve. I wish I would have but my path was to met a girl in college and have my kid, with her. I avoid getting caught up in military mudslinging on the micro level like in this thread. I've learned the micro is a bad place, reserved for those who have survived it.

.

 

[greyhammer90]

First, yes it does. If A = B or C, and you can't prove that there even is a C, then A is always going to automatically equal B. Once you show that C exists, then the statement that A automatically equals B is false, because it could equal C, not B.

Ah, the old "liken a war vets frame of mind to a mathematical deduction of a philosophical logical chain" argument.

 

[Irishbounty28]

Chris Kyle said

War can be scary and fun at the same time. It is unrealistic for you to try and comprehend the emotions felt on the battlefield. I took part first hand in a lot of the exact same things that Chris Kyle did, and will tell you it was exhilerating. You don't operate with fear, and grief. Emotions are not part of the battlefield because they cloud judgement. Again, Chris Kyle had a fault, and it was stating his feelings bluntly to individuals that couldn't comprehend the context of his answers.

 

[DonnieNarco]

I would say enjoyment is an emotion, and there is a range of emotions in between no grief and thinking it was fun. I also put more on this when this was said after he returned, when there was time for reflection.

 

[kmoose]

Chris Kyle said

"There's another question people ask a lot: 'Did it bother you killing so many people in Iraq?' I tell them, 'No.'

Could very easily mean, "No, the number of people that I killed does not bother me because it was a war."

I loved what I did.

Could very easily mean, "I loved being a SEAL. I didn't enjoy taking lives, but I did love all of the other things that came with being a SEAL."

"I'm not lying or exaggerating to say it was fun."

Could very easily mean, "The training that we did, as SEALS; the parachuting, the infiltrating enemy territory by swimming to shore from a submarine, the qualifying all manner of weapons, the camaraderie that I had with the other SEALS; all of those things made the experience fun. It was like living a real adventure everyday, not like going to work at all."

Without any context to the quote, and with the missing sections of the quote, his words could mean anything.

 

[kmoose]

Ah, the old "liken a war vets frame of mind to a mathematical deduction of a philosophical logical chain" argument.

Your inability to comprehend simple logic is not my problem.

 

[phork]

I'd love to hear your input on this before just putting out statements like that.

It was italic'd, but if you want me to expound I will. Name a country and I'll give you the regime change organized by the US.

 

[greyhammer90]

Your inability to comprehend simple logic is not my problem.

Please don't mistake my incredulity for confusion.

 

[kmoose]

Please don't mistake my incredulity for confusion.

I think that perhaps your incredulity is a byproduct of your inability to comprehend simple logic.

 

[kmoose]

It was italic'd, but if you want me to expound I will. Name a country and I'll give you the regime change organized by the US.

Bhutan

 

[greyhammer90]

I think that perhaps your incredulity is a byproduct of your inability to comprehend simple logic.

Troll troll troll your boat.

Please professor, spell it out for me. Show the class your theorem. Show me how the writing of one war veteran on his personal mindset proves through a philosophical argument that can be boiled to a simple mathematical formula that Kyle was not, as you put it, "a sociopathic killer". I'm honestly curious, and if you can, I'll give you a tip of my hat.

 

[kmoose]

Troll troll troll your boat.

Please professor, spell it out for me. Show the class your theorem. Show me how the writing of one war veteran on his personal mindset proves through a philosophical argument that can be boiled to a simple mathematical formula that Kyle was not, as you put it, "a sociopathic killer". I'm honestly curious, and if you can, I'll give you a tip of my hat.

I'm sorry, I was mistaken.............. your logic comprehension appears to be ok. It's your reading comprehension that needs work.

I never said that it proved that Kyle was not a sociopathic killer. I said that it proved that he was not AUTOMATICALLY one. There are other possibilities, as clearly evidenced by Irishbounty's first account of his experiences/mindset.

 

[PANDFAN]

Ah, the old "liken a war vets frame of mind to a mathematical deduction of a philosophical logical chain" argument.

Please don't mistake my incredulity for confusion.

I think that perhaps your incredulity is a byproduct of your inability to comprehend simple logic.

Bhutan

Troll troll troll your boat.

Please professor, spell it out for me. Show the class your theorem. Show me how the writing of one war veteran on his personal mindset proves through a philosophical argument that can be boiled to a simple mathematical formula that Kyle was not, as you put it, "a sociopathic killer". I'm honestly curious, and if you can, I'll give you a tip of my hat.

I'm sorry, I was mistaken.............. your logic comprehension appears to be ok. It's your reading comprehension that needs work.

I never said that it proved that Kyle was not a sociopathic killer. I said that it proved that he was not AUTOMATICALLY one. There are other possibilities, as clearly evidenced by Irishbounty's first account of his experiences/mindset.

 

[greyhammer90]

I'm sorry, I was mistaken.............. your logic comprehension appears to be ok. It's your reading comprehension that needs work.

I never said that it proved that Kyle was not a sociopathic killer. I said that it proved that he was not AUTOMATICALLY one. There are other possibilities, as clearly evidenced by Irishbounty's first account of his experiences/mindset.

Ohhhhhh, so your brilliant argument proved against an extremist point no one was arguing for or against. Gotcha. You're right, you're the smartest.

 

[irishog77]

Get a room

 

[greyhammer90]

Get a room

Listen Hogg, what me and your mother do and where we do it is none of your business. We're both consenting adults and even though I cry sometimes I really do love her. It's just been hard adjusting to life with you and your sister and this isn't where I thought I'd end up. I know I'll never be your dad but I'd really like to be your friend. What do you say Buddy?

 

[IRISH in MT]

I didn't see a thread for the book, or the movie so I thought I would create one. With the recent buzz after the release of the movie, there seems to be a devisive stance on what the movie portrays. Some feel the movie is pro-war, and that the movie is portrayed as military propaganda. Others are of the stance that it is simply a patriotic portrayal of one of the United States many military heroes.

The Short List: Why some in Hollywood think 'American Sniper' is pro-war


Seth Rogen versus Sarah Palin: Is 'American Sniper' pro-war or patriotic? (+video) - CSMonitor.com

I understand these articles are targeting celebrity thoughts, buy I feel it sparks a topic about how wars should be portrayed in movies. Should they glamorize war/war heroes? Or should they just make movies more fictional in nature and not base them off actual individuals ie. Fury?


If you want to throw out your stance on the subject, or simply what you thought of the movie in general feel free. I have seen it a few times now, and also have read the book and loved it.

I wanted to avoid any "war" threads as this community is obviously divided. I watched the movie without reading the book and was absolutely shocked by the sick irony of how his life ended. A decorated soldier whose main job was guarding over other soldiers was killed trying to help a soldier with PTSD. All happening after they were out of the Service. I thought the movie did a fantastic job of portraying why some brave souls enlist in the military as well as displaying how soldiers are traumatized and the effects (PTSD) on them. You could tell he was proud to serve but could also see the confusion/shock on his brother's face when they met up briefly.

Personally, I thought the movie had more of a PTSD awareness than it did about glorifying war. In the end it clearly illustrated his struggles before it portrayed him as a hero with the funeral scenes.