State Of The UNION!

[Ndaccountant]

That isn't completely true, companies had already started the process of raising deductibles before the ACA.

This is an interesting graph for what it says and what it doesn't say. First, wages have outstripped inflation, which is good. But, they have done so in the face of increasing health care costs. Yes, the chart indicates premiums paid be employees have outstripped overall growth in premiums. What it doesn't indicate is how much of the total premiums are being paid by employees vs employers. For me (and everyone else at my company), I pay about 15% of the total premium today. That will obviously differ depending on employer, but as shown below, the average is close to 30%. So, companies/employers/corporations have been able to absorb a sizeable increase in premiums paid while still keeping wages above inflation. Seems like the average person should be happy with this, given the potential alternatives.

 

[GoIrish41]

This is an interesting graph for what it says and what it doesn't say. First, wages have outstripped inflation, which is good. But, they have done so in the face of increasing health care costs. Yes, the chart indicates premiums paid be employees have outstripped overall growth in premiums. What it doesn't indicate is how much of the total premiums are being paid by employees vs employers. For me (and everyone else at my company), I pay about 15% of the total premium today. That will obviously differ depending on employer, but as shown below, the average is close to 30%. So, companies/employers/corporations have been able to absorb a sizeable increase in premiums paid while still keeping wages above inflation. Seems like the average person should be happy with this, given the potential alternatives.

Question: Are the "workers earnings" skewed by the insanely high increases in compensation for the 1%? Wage stagnation has been kind of a hot button issue, and while the average income has increased, is it evenly distributed among all of the workforce, or are the high wages of a few making it look better than it is. If so, it would not make the average person happy. Thanks in advance for the clarification.

 

[GoldenDome]

Wait, people are complaining about spending money on higher education yet the U.S. government just spent $2 trillion on a war that was sold to the general public by media corporations to fill their own agendas.

I like the idea of free Community College, specifically if it is towards vocational training. Once baby boomers all retire, their is going to be a labor shortage, specifically in STEM. There should be further incentives to take these courses.

 

[Ndaccountant]

Question: Are the "workers earnings" skewed by the insanely high increases in compensation for the 1%? Wage stagnation has been kind of a hot button issue, and while the average income has increased, is it evenly distributed among all of the workforce, or are the high wages of a few making it look better than it is. If so, it would not make the average person happy. Thanks in advance for the clarification.

EDIT: Here is an answer for you from a different source:

The median might be flat, but the average is higher. But that increase is due more to the top quartile, not the top 1%.

But the comment still stands as making a point. If the midpoint is still just keeping pace with inflation, it could be much worse if employers absorbed less than what they do.

 

[connor_in]

FREE

I do not think that word means what you think it means

 

[pkt77242]

EDIT: Here is an answer for you from a different source:

The median might be flat, but the average is higher. But that increase is due more to the top quartile, not the top 1%.

Yep,
I found a similar graph, the real change seems to be in the top 20% or so.

 

[pkt77242]

This is an interesting graph for what it says and what it doesn't say. First, wages have outstripped inflation, which is good. But, they have done so in the face of increasing health care costs. Yes, the chart indicates premiums paid be employees have outstripped overall growth in premiums. What it doesn't indicate is how much of the total premiums are being paid by employees vs employers. For me (and everyone else at my company), I pay about 15% of the total premium today. That will obviously differ depending on employer, but as shown below, the average is close to 30%. So, companies/employers/corporations have been able to absorb a sizeable increase in premiums paid while still keeping wages above inflation. Seems like the average person should be happy with this, given the potential alternatives.

I agree that many companies have done a good job with contributing to employee health plans (though there are also some who don't). The real problem is the growth in health care costs, and if we don't find a way to slow it down it will eventually do significant harm to our economy (for that matter the same thing can be said about student loans).

 

[GoIrish41]

Yep,
I found a similar graph, the real change seems to be in the top 20% or so.

That's what I figured. Thaks PKT and NdA.

 

[GoIrish41]

I agree that many companies have done a good job with contributing to employee health plans (though there are also some who don't). The real problem is the growth in health care costs, and if we don't find a way to slow it down it will eventually do significant harm to our economy (for that matter the same thing can be said about student loans).

I'd argue that they have already done significant harm to our economy. People would be doing significantly better if they didn't have these lofty burdens hanging around their necks. People who are doing better spend more money and businesses expand.

 

[RDU Irish]

Anyone who can't work their way through community college isn't trying very hard. I happen to think you can work your way through most public universities. Might have to miss Cancun and drink Natty Light instead of Sam Adams but such is life. Short term pain, long term gain.

As someone else pointed out, tax credits and grants are such that low income folks are almost paid to go to school. This creates false incentives. I know people who took CC classes just to qualify for loans that they used to live on instead of getting a job. Ridiculous.

Just one example of the BS promises thrown out to make people feel good at a SOTU, regardless of the D or R next to the idiot spewing the crap.

 

[Irish Fam]

Flood the market with College Graduates and there will be no greater income. In this country now, we are already dealing with 4 year college grads not being able to find a decent job. A few years ago my wife applied and interviewed for a job not knowing the specifics of pay. At the time she had a 4 year degree in science and this job was pertaining to science. They wanted her to work an odd shift, 1:00 P.M to 11:00 P.M I think it was for $11.50 an hour.... I told her to tell em to get bent. She now has a Masters in Education and teaches which is still not great pay but considering time off, she does pretty well and it fits are family lifestyle perfectly.

I know I am getting to this a little late, but I wanted to address it nonetheless.

As someone who just graduated, I completely agree with the excess supply of college graduates.

However, in my initial post, I commented on the fact that Obama differentiated two year degrees such as nursing and robotics. These are industries with continued high demand. I believe that it is on career counselors at the high school and community college level to encourage students to pursue these degrees rather than a run of the mill BA in Business that will only clump them into a group with tens of thousands of people holding similar degrees.

 

[pkt77242]

Anyone who can't work their way through community college isn't trying very hard. I happen to think you can work your way through most public universities. Might have to miss Cancun and drink Natty Light instead of Sam Adams but such is life. Short term pain, long term gain.

As someone else pointed out, tax credits and grants are such that low income folks are almost paid to go to school. This creates false incentives. I know people who took CC classes just to qualify for loans that they used to live on instead of getting a job. Ridiculous.

Just one example of the BS promises thrown out to make people feel good at a SOTU, regardless of the D or R next to the idiot spewing the crap.

While I can agree with your post in respect to the business or psychology major, some of the other programs are significantly more intensive (especially if you parents make too much money for you to get grants but not enough to help) such as the nursing program (once they start clinicals it becomes significantly hard to work).

 

[RDU Irish]

As for healthcare. I suspect none of you actually have paid for your own private insurance for any significant period of time. I have had a private HSA plan for years. Love it. $6000 deductible with $6000 HSA contributions, once we built up the HSA we wanted to increase to a $10,000 deductible for what would average out to lower costs to the tune of maybe $200/month. Also wanted to drop the maternity rider once we were done dropping shorties, $150/month savings. All told, we could reduce our monthly premium by about 40% WHEN OUR NEEDS CHANGED. Well, enter Obamacare and we are THANKFULLY grandfathered with our old plan, however dropping the rider or changing the deductible constitute a change in our insurance and we lose grandfather status. But we should be happy because our grandfathered plan costs close to half of what the crappy options are today.

Insult to injury? Our grandfathered plan still had to pick up tons of provisions we really didn't want or need resulting in repricing of the plan. Yeah, mandates cost money. Ask any governor or school superintendent.

High deductible plans are great and I wish they could go further. I would rather everyone had crappier coverage for the sniffles but protect myself against medical bankruptcy. $6000 is the most now I believe, why would government restrict that? Why not allow $10k or $20k deductibles? Why is the focus on a free physical instead of paying for open heart surgery or major medical problems? Why can't I buy over the counter meds with my HSA anymore?

 

[GoIrish41]

I'm not going to lie. It occurred to me several times during the State of the Union that Obama was pitching Democratic ideals that he knows have no chance of getting passed to frame the debait for the 16 election. I don't necessarily think that is a bad thing, as there is no way he is getting anything he wants anyway. IMO, free community college, climate change, minimum wage, immigration reform, healthcare, and productive talks with Iran to end their nuke program are all winners for the Dems.

Rep. Erntz (sp?) from Iowa's rebuttle was not a rebuttle at all. Its content suggested that her party is sitting back and waiting which of the issues Obama framed will stick with the American public and which ones will not. No sense spending political capital on issues that have no legs. I think it was funny that she called the Keystone Pipeline the "Keystone Jobs" plan. I have read that in the longterm, the pipeline is expected to create approximately 80 jobs. Cooincidently, it is a boon for the oil companies that have always motivated republican politicians to take a stand. I think it plays right into Obama's desire to frame the debate. In summary, it is my opinion that the campaign of 2016 began last night.

 

[DonnieNarco]

I'm not going to lie. It occurred to me several times during the State of the Union that Obama was pitching Democratic ideals that he knows have no chance of getting passed to frame the debait for the 16 election. I don't necessarily think that is a bad thing, as there is no way he is getting anything he wants anyway. IMO, free community college, climate change, minimum wage, immigration reform, healthcare, and productive talks with Iran to end their nuke program are all winners for the Dems.

Rep. Erntz (sp?) from Iowa's rebuttle was not a rebuttle at all. Its content suggested that her party is sitting back and waiting which of the issues Obama framed will stick with the American public and which ones will not. No sense spending political capital on issues that have no legs. I think it was funny that she called the Keystone Pipeline the "Keystone Jobs" plan. I have read that in the longterm, the pipeline is expected to create approximately 80 jobs. Cooincidently, it is a boon for the oil companies that have always motivated republican politicians to take a stand. I think it plays right into Obama's desire to frame the debate. In summary, it is my opinion that the campaign of 2016 began last night.

Obama is just posturing for the Democratic Party in the 2016. If he believed any of this he would have done something earlier about them. The Democrats need to grow a spine if they are going to accomplish anything.

The Keystone Pipeline is some Koch Brothers scheme to exploit the American people so they can make money.

 

[GoldenDome]

I'm not going to lie. It occurred to me several times during the State of the Union that Obama was pitching Democratic ideals that he knows have no chance of getting passed to frame the debait for the 16 election. I don't necessarily think that is a bad thing, as there is no way he is getting anything he wants anyway. IMO, free community college, climate change, minimum wage, immigration reform, healthcare, and productive talks with Iran to end their nuke program are all winners for the Dems.

Rep. Erntz (sp?) from Iowa's rebuttle was not a rebuttle at all. Its content suggested that her party is sitting back and waiting which of the issues Obama framed will stick with the American public and which ones will not. No sense spending political capital on issues that have no legs. I think it was funny that she called the Keystone Pipeline the "Keystone Jobs" plan. I have read that in the longterm, the pipeline is expected to create approximately 80 jobs. Cooincidently, it is a boon for the oil companies that have always motivated republican politicians to take a stand. I think it plays right into Obama's desire to frame the debate. In summary, it is my opinion that the campaign of 2016 began last night.

Short term the keystone will create jobs for the manufacture of it, but it will kill jobs long term. Right now, they are transporting the oil via trucks and those jobs would actually be non existent.

 

[RDU Irish]

While I can agree with your post in respect to the business or psychology major, some of the other programs are significantly more intensive (especially if you parents make too much money for you to get grants but not enough to help) such as the nursing program (once they start clinicals it becomes significantly hard to work).

My wife worked through nursing school. Granted it was a second degree for her so she was not hitting the social scene but she had plenty of time to work, go to class and knock out her clinicals.

Of all tracts, nursing is about the easiest to take on debt. You have an incredible clarity of your future earnings potential, 100% chance of landing a job and you can work just about anywhere you want! How many four year degrees guarantee a $60,000/year job placement? Young and free, do travel work and earn up to double that amount with room and board included!

Let's say you take out $100,000 to complete that degree. That is $800/month for 20 years to change from a $12/hour laborer to a $30/hour profession with all the flexibility in the world. $2000/month gross increases to $5000/month for a cost of $800/month.

Difference with most other degrees, that cost benefit is not so clear. You really don't know what your immediate earning potential is and your future earning potential is even more difficult to project with any level of certainty.

 

[RDU Irish]

Short term the keystone will create jobs for the manufacture of it, but it will kill jobs long term. Right now, they are transporting the oil via trucks and those jobs would actually be non existent.

By the same logic we should outlaw ATMs because they put bank tellers out of work.

I still can't fathom the hang up with Keystone. Is it really that different from the thousands of miles of pipelines already in use and development today? Same with ANWAR, the opponent arguments make no sense to anyone with any level of intellectual honesty.

 

[Buster Bluth]

As for healthcare. I suspect none of you actually have paid for your own private insurance for any significant period of time. I have had a private HSA plan for years. Love it. $6000 deductible with $6000 HSA contributions, once we built up the HSA we wanted to increase to a $10,000 deductible for what would average out to lower costs to the tune of maybe $200/month. Also wanted to drop the maternity rider once we were done dropping shorties, $150/month savings. All told, we could reduce our monthly premium by about 40% WHEN OUR NEEDS CHANGED. Well, enter Obamacare and we are THANKFULLY grandfathered with our old plan, however dropping the rider or changing the deductible constitute a change in our insurance and we lose grandfather status. But we should be happy because our grandfathered plan costs close to half of what the crappy options are today.

Insult to injury? Our grandfathered plan still had to pick up tons of provisions we really didn't want or need resulting in repricing of the plan. Yeah, mandates cost money. Ask any governor or school superintendent.

High deductible plans are great and I wish they could go further. I would rather everyone had crappier coverage for the sniffles but protect myself against medical bankruptcy. $6000 is the most now I believe, why would government restrict that? Why not allow $10k or $20k deductibles? Why is the focus on a free physical instead of paying for open heart surgery or major medical problems? Why can't I buy over the counter meds with my HSA anymore?

I agree with the majority of this, but I read the other day that 52% of Americans could not come up with $400 without borrowing it. I would think high deductibles will hurt them considerably.

 

[ulukinatme]

High deductible plans are great and I wish they could go further. I would rather everyone had crappier coverage for the sniffles but protect myself against medical bankruptcy. $6000 is the most now I believe, why would government restrict that? Why not allow $10k or $20k deductibles? Why is the focus on a free physical instead of paying for open heart surgery or major medical problems? Why can't I buy over the counter meds with my HSA anymore?

I agree, medical bankruptcy sucks, but so does paying thousands of dollars for health coverage and never seeing the benefit. If I'm paying $3700 roughly a year in medical premiums, and I have to meet a $2000 deductible before Anthem decides they'll start helping...fucking money down the drain most years. Even with 3 kids I didn't hit my deductible last year. That's $3700 I'm out, plus the nearly $2000 in medical bills I'm paying on my own and Anthem didn't have to lift a finger really. I realize I'm bellyaching a bit here, and that the insurance company ends up using my premiums to cover the costs of the other plan members that meet those deductibles, but damn...just wish it could have stayed relatively the same.

 

[connor_in]

Perennial awe: A reminder that media fawning over Obama speeches is nothing new | Twitchy

 

[RDU Irish]

I agree with the majority of this, but I read the other day that 52% of Americans could not come up with $400 without borrowing it. I would think high deductibles will hurt them considerably.

Is that why 48% of us have somebody asking to borrow $400 PER MONTH to buy health insurance?

But I am sure providing those same people tax breaks a year after they have been paying for insurance will motivate them to take on an expense for which they see no need. Thankfully they don't have to buy it until they need it!

 

[RDU Irish]

Back on topic, I found what little bits of the speech I suffered through petty, pompous and rambling. Like that jagbag has any clue what the average American is dealing with. The pair of village idiots providing contrasting Joker grins and scowls was as visually unappetizing as the empty promises taking eons to develop from the monologue.

 

[connor_in]

Back on topic, I found what little bits of the speech I suffered through petty, pompous and rambling. Like that jagbag has any clue what the average American is dealing with. The pair of village idiots providing contrasting Joker grins and scowls was as visually unappetizing as the empty promises taking eons to develop from the monologue.

This

The SOTU has strictly become theater. If you take any of these seriously, then tell me how all those trips back to the Moon and the manned Mars missions have gone when you get off the U.S. bullet trains you take to and from your high pay high satisfaction jobs.

 

[Ndaccountant]

I agree, medical bankruptcy sucks, but so does paying thousands of dollars for health coverage and never seeing the benefit. If I'm paying $3700 roughly a year in medical premiums, and I have to meet a $2000 deductible before Anthem decides they'll start helping...fucking money down the drain most years. Even with 3 kids I didn't hit my deductible last year. That's $3700 I'm out, plus the nearly $2000 in medical bills I'm paying on my own and Anthem didn't have to lift a finger really. I realize I'm bellyaching a bit here, and that the insurance company ends up using my premiums to cover the costs of the other plan members that meet those deductibles, but damn...just wish it could have stayed relatively the same.

Just wait until they start taxing you for the value of the premiums your employer pays.....then you will be REALLY pissed.

 

[RDU Irish]

What cracks me up, that plan is too good to be true. Employer has to be subsidizing it to make it that cheap for a family plan.

 

[RDU Irish]

Why not tax folks on the employer portion of FICA while we are at it. Wouldn't that tick off the underclasses! Congrats, you get 7% pay raise but it is all going to Uncle Sam!

 

[nsideirish]

I always found the proposition that health insurance be tied to your employment strange. The US seems to be unique in this regard. What is the rationale? Car insurance isn't. Home insurance isn't. Etc.

 

[nsideirish]

Also, I disagree that climate change is the biggest issue facing future generations. It is definitely up there. But I think the growing wealth gap needs to be addressed. 1% owns 99% of the wealth and it is only getting worse. How can anyone be OK with that?

 

[connor_in]

I always found the proposition that health insurance be tied to your employment strange. The US seems to be unique in this regard. What is the rationale? Car insurance isn't. Home insurance isn't. Etc.

Back when it was cheap (especially written on groups), it was a great way to entice workers as part of a benefits package outside of normal pay. A prettier bow on the package as it were