Is Kelly a REALLY good coach?

GoldenDomer

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I friend of mine ( Brandon Lilly, google him if you'd like) has spent a lot of time consulting with some pretty big time strength programs, such as, Alabama. He told me his two biggest take a ways from his 2 week stent in Tuscaloosa..

1. Intensity is off the charts

2. Every single one of them is convinced they are going to the NFL and will do absolutely anything to just stay on the team, because they know Saban will over recruit and boot there ass.

He is pretty tight with the Kentucky strength staff. He says there players are soft physically and mentally and are starting to turn the corner.

Alabama, OSU and the old PITT strength coaches ( the Stache years) are/were the best in the biz.

I wish I could spend a week in the Bama weight room, then spent a week in ND's.

I just picture the attitude being a complete 180. As hard as Cochran pushes them, I'm sure they push each other harder.
 
K

koonja

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I wish I could spend a week in the Bama weight room, then spent a week in ND's.

I just picture the attitude being a complete 180. As hard as Cochran pushes them, I'm sure they push each other harder.

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VS.

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Hammer Of The Gods

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I wish I could spend a week in the Bama weight room, then spent a week in ND's.

I just picture the attitude being a complete 180. As hard as Cochran pushes them, I'm sure they push each other harder.

He actually went to Alabama in 2012 and 2013. After his 2013 trip he went to Kentucky. He said there couldn't of been two completely different vibes. He said it was like comparing Bologna to a Filet. Not even Close.
 

GoldenDomer

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He actually went to Alabama in 2012 and 2013. After his 2013 trip he went to Kentucky. He said there couldn't of been two completely different vibes. He said it was like comparing Bologna to a Filet. Not even Close.

This is why I think the, "they have nothing else to think about" argument isn't as prevalent as some make it out to be. What is different between the rigors for student-athletes at Kentucky and Alabama? Not much. So what explains the difference between those kids? Alabama's players are focused and will run through walls to taste success. Kids on teams who have a softer mentality don't want to sacrifice as much.
 

Nick Setta

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Really? I feel like we're one of the softest teams I've ever seen. Our baddest dude under Kelly was a friendly Hawaiian guy with a fake girlfriend. Second baddest dude was a 325 pound teddy bear famous for his YouTube comedy.
Zach Martin's pretty bad. Theo Riddick was pretty bad. Niklas, motta, and smith have laid some people out.
 

General Colon Bowel

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I think it's unreasonable to expect a perennial 7-6 or 8-5 team to ever have a shot at the playoff, let alone a shot every few years. In order for the playoff to be our peak, we need to be a 9-4 or 10-3 team in a "regular" year.

First of all, (although we may this year) we've never gone 7-6 before. To echo the sentiments of WhiskeyJack, Kelly has gone 8-5 in seasons that would hardly constitute as "regular" for a college football program.

With Brian Kelly:

2010 - he takes over a program that went 6-6 the year before. The transition, especially the installation of a new offense, is rough at first. Kelly discovers that his 5 star quarterback lacks the confidence and poise to start at a big time college program (regardless of the system, as proven by Crist's dead last finish in quarterback rating in 2012 at Kansas under Weis - who, despite his overall failures as a coach, made his only two qb's at ND into heisman candidates). He turns to a true freshman with notably limited physical attributes, ND falls to 4-5 at one point, but then demonstrates a heart and perseverance unseen under the previous coaching staff to win 4 straight against ranked Utah, Army, rival USC (who we hadn't beat since 2001), and Miami Fl. Considering it's his first year, he's installing a completely new offense, and what he had been left with (especially at the most important position field, qb - a true freshman Rees and one of the biggest qb busts in recent history), and the visible strides in determination and will to compete that Kelly instilled in his players - I'd give him an A -

2011 - Given an entire summer to evaluate Rees and Crist, Kelly goes with Crist again. My opinion is that he recognized that Crist's physical potential gave the team a much higher ceiling than Rees (with his physical limitations), were Crist to put it all together. I don't fault Kelly for wanting to shoot for potential greatness rather than settling for mediocrity. The season starts, it becomes glaringly apparent that Crist will never put it all together. We lose to USF because of turnovers (in my opinion, something that a coach can run drills in practice to avoid, but has no in-game control over). We lose to Michigan in one of the most absurd games I've ever seen (Up 24-7, these things happened: Denard Robinson goes 2-2 on throws that were absolute prayers, a goal line fumble bounces right into Denard's hands for an easy TD, next possession our kick return is for 1 yard to our 10 and then our punter shanks it for 20 something yards, and Rees fumbled on Michigan's 9 when a TD would've put us up by 10 with like 5 minutes left. Instead we lose 35-31. Michigan goes onto an 11-2 record). We put the 0-2 start behind us and find a way to finish 8-3 (with Rees at qb), including a win against an 11-win MSU team and competitive losses to a top-10 Stanford team, a 10-2 USC team (a game in which we gave the other team yet another 80+ yard fumble return for a td), and a 9-win FSU team (that was on the cusp of rising to be arguably the best program in college football - we'll see what the playoffs say about that - and accruing a 40-2 record over the next 3 years). This year's team was derailed by turnovers and poor qb play. I'll say that turnovers (especially fumbles) are about 50% coaching and Kelly was doing a decent job with qb's he had. I'd give Kelly a B for this year.

2012 - Kelly did the most with what he had. Leaned on his stellar D and successfully managed qb inconsistencies to push the team to an undefeated regular season. A stacked Bama team exposed lots of our deficiencies, and you'll hear no argument from me that Saban isn't better at game planning (he's the best) than Kelly. But I see the Bama game more as evidence of the incredible job that Kelly did getting this team to an undefeated regular season. Kelly gets an A (would be an A+ if not for the NC game)

2013 - Golson is suspended all season for academics and we're forced to use Rees. Perhaps by this point we should have a better backup plan than Rees, but the quarterback that was recruited to be developed to backup Rees had overtaken him as a starter. Our D is absolutely ravaged by injuries (specifically our front 7). Kelly can't be faulted for his recruiting here, he recruited great on the d-line, ND-specific standards restricted him from being able to recruit the amount of players required to deal with the kind of rare injury situation with which he was dealing. Rees throws 9 int's and completes under 50% of his passes in our four losses to Michigan, Oklahoma (finished 11-2 and whooped Bama that year, Rees threw a pick six plus another INT inside our territory in the first two minutes of the game to give them 14-0 lead, we play next 58 minutes to a 21-21 draw), Pittsburgh (a game in which our best player was ejected on a questionable call, we fumbled inside the 10, and lost by a td), and Stanford (finished ranked #5, we lost by a td) - despite Kelly recognizing Rees' deficiencies and condensing the playbook in an attempt to make it easier on him. All the losses were competitive, and certainly would have been winnable if not for Rees' turnovers and injuries - although the Michigan game we lost because our D made Devin Gardner look like Vince Young. If you count Golson, we have 53 starts lost to injury or suspension, which would have been the second highest in cfb this year. We also beat 10-win USC, 10-win ASU, and gave the Spartans their only loss of the season to keep them out of the NC game. I'd give Kelly a B+ for finishing 9-4 this year, given the difficult schedule, the injuries, Golson's suspension, and the fact that I think Kelly attempted to create an offense that would make Rees less susceptible to turnovers but ultimately couldn't

2014 - This season started out so well and then went so wrong. We finally saw the explosive offense that Kelly had been wanting with Golson under center. Unfortunately, the nature of the Kelly's offense that gave Golson the opportunity to create, improvise, and put up lots of TD's also gave him the freedom to create alot of turnovers. This is why this season has been so frustrating. We saw the closest this offense has come to reaching it's potential, but we also saw the same turnover issues and inconsistent QB play that have plagued the offense throughout the whole course of Kelly's time at ND. Kelly's not an idiot, I guarantee you he recognizes this is the consistent source of losing games we shouldn't lose and I guarantee you he's put more than enough effort into coaching Golson to avoid these turnovers - maybe Kelly just can't coach QB's, maybe his offense makes QB's more susceptible to turnovers, maybe he's just gotten unlucky with a string of QB's who have an incredible penchant for boneheaded throws and lack of ball security. The defense looked stellar at first, and then collapsed. I'm not sure what to make of the. The collapse came right after the Joe Schmidt injury, and he had been referred to as a coach on the field, so I'm sure that had something to do with it. We also had injuries to Day, Jones, Riggs, Collinsworth, Cage, and some I'm forgetting. And this isn't to mention the fact that we were already missing Russell (who many thought would've been right up there with Jaylon as our best player this year), Ishaq, Moore, and Hardy (and Daniels on O), which were 5 scholarship slots unable to contribute any sort of depth that would've been nice to have given the rash of injuries. Still, apart from the injuries and suspensions; apart from the last second losses to FSU, NW, and Louisville; apart from all the bad luck, the thing that makes this season the most disappointing is that the team gave up. The determination and will to compete that Kelly had noticeably instilled in his players was one of my main reasons for loving him as a coach, and the players lost it at the end of the season. We'll see if they get it back against LSU. But as it stands now, even despite the injuries and suspensions and all the bad luck, I'd give Kelly a C for this season.

So, admittedly there's cause for concern. This has been Kelly's worst season. But I also think it's worth noting that Kelly has gone through a run of bad luck that most coaches never have to experience. Sure many teams have separately experienced a 5 star QB bust, a season of bad luck with injuries, a season plagued by turnovers, a suspension of a starter or a star, etc. But all in combination and in multiple years in a row? No way. So to assert that any of 2010,11,13,or 14 were "regular" years and 8-5 is what can be expected from Kelly under "regular" circumstances is a bit unfair in my opinion. Kelly has had 4 seasons where his teams were relatively unlucky and they underachieved, and 1 season where his team was relatively lucky and overachieved. The point is, luck usually evens out over time but it hasn't yet for Kelly. So is Kelly a good coach? Yes, I think so. I think he is the kind of coach who is capable of winning 10 games a year on average - assuming that, while some seasons he'll be overall unlucky and some seasons he'll be overall lucky, luck will balance itself out over time. And I think 10 wins a year at Notre Dame makes someone a good coach. Is he an elite coach? I don't know. To me, an elite coach is someone who can consistently win 10 games a year AND take advantage of the seasons when things fall into place for your team by winning a national championship.
I think next year, for many reasons, will be a year in which things fall into place. We'll have most starters back plus Russell to replace Riggs, we'll have plenty of depth from young guys filling in for injured players, we play a schedule that looks challenging enough to get us into the playoffs but not too daunting. Statistics say that the amount of injuries we've suffered this year and the year before makes the probability of us being unlucky with injuries next year very unlikely. After two straight offseasons of teammates getting kicked off the team, I'm betting no one will do anything stupid this offseason. The only thing that concerns me is turnovers. If we shoot ourselves in the foot with turnovers again next season, then I think it's clear that Kelly is just a good coach who has some flaw in his coaching that makes his players susceptible to turnovers. But if we finally have an offense that reigns in the turnovers, then I think we've got an elite team next year and it will show in their record. I'll give Kelly a pass on this season and wait for next to see if he's a truly a good coach.
 

FLDomer

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First of all, (although we may this year) we've never gone 7-6 before. To echo the sentiments of WhiskeyJack, Kelly has gone 8-5 in seasons that would hardly constitute as "regular" for a college football program.

With Brian Kelly:

2010 - he takes over a program that went 6-6 the year before. The transition, especially the installation of a new offense, is rough at first. Kelly discovers that his 5 star quarterback lacks the confidence and poise to start at a big time college program (regardless of the system, as proven by Crist's dead last finish in quarterback rating in 2012 at Kansas under Weis - who, despite his overall failures as a coach, made his only two qb's at ND into heisman candidates). He turns to a true freshman with notably limited physical attributes, ND falls to 4-5 at one point, but then demonstrates a heart and perseverance unseen under the previous coaching staff to win 4 straight against ranked Utah, Army, rival USC (who we hadn't beat since 2001), and Miami Fl. Considering it's his first year, he's installing a completely new offense, and what he had been left with (especially at the most important position field, qb - a true freshman Rees and one of the biggest qb busts in recent history), and the visible strides in determination and will to compete that Kelly instilled in his players - I'd give him an A -

2011 - Given an entire summer to evaluate Rees and Crist, Kelly goes with Crist again. My opinion is that he recognized that Crist's physical potential gave the team a much higher ceiling than Rees (with his physical limitations), were Crist to put it all together. I don't fault Kelly for wanting to shoot for potential greatness rather than settling for mediocrity. The season starts, it becomes glaringly apparent that Crist will never put it all together. We lose to USF because of turnovers (in my opinion, something that a coach can run drills in practice to avoid, but has no in-game control over). We lose to Michigan in one of the most absurd games I've ever seen (Up 24-7, these things happened: Denard Robinson goes 2-2 on throws that were absolute prayers, a goal line fumble bounces right into Denard's hands for an easy TD, next possession our kick return is for 1 yard to our 10 and then our punter shanks it for 20 something yards, and Rees fumbled on Michigan's 9 when a TD would've put us up by 10 with like 5 minutes left. Instead we lose 35-31. Michigan goes onto an 11-2 record). We put the 0-2 start behind us and find a way to finish 8-3 (with Rees at qb), including a win against an 11-win MSU team and competitive losses to a top-10 Stanford team, a 10-2 USC team (a game in which we gave the other team yet another 80+ yard fumble return for a td), and a 9-win FSU team (that was on the cusp of rising to be arguably the best program in college football - we'll see what the playoffs say about that - and accruing a 40-2 record over the next 3 years). This year's team was derailed by turnovers and poor qb play. I'll say that turnovers (especially fumbles) are about 50% coaching and Kelly was doing a decent job with qb's he had. I'd give Kelly a B for this year.

2012 - Kelly did the most with what he had. Leaned on his stellar D and successfully managed qb inconsistencies to push the team to an undefeated regular season. A stacked Bama team exposed lots of our deficiencies, and you'll hear no argument from me that Saban isn't better at game planning (he's the best) than Kelly. But I see the Bama game more as evidence of the incredible job that Kelly did getting this team to an undefeated regular season. Kelly gets an A (would be an A+ if not for the NC game)

2013 - Golson is suspended all season for academics and we're forced to use Rees. Perhaps by this point we should have a better backup plan than Rees, but the quarterback that was recruited to be developed to backup Rees had overtaken him as a starter. Our D is absolutely ravaged by injuries (specifically our front 7). Kelly can't be faulted for his recruiting here, he recruited great on the d-line, ND-specific standards restricted him from being able to recruit the amount of players required to deal with the kind of rare injury situation with which he was dealing. Rees throws 9 int's and completes under 50% of his passes in our four losses to Michigan, Oklahoma (finished 11-2 and whooped Bama that year, Rees threw a pick six plus another INT inside our territory in the first two minutes of the game to give them 14-0 lead, we play next 58 minutes to a 21-21 draw), Pittsburgh (a game in which our best player was ejected on a questionable call, we fumbled inside the 10, and lost by a td), and Stanford (finished ranked #5, we lost by a td) - despite Kelly recognizing Rees' deficiencies and condensing the playbook in an attempt to make it easier on him. All the losses were competitive, and certainly would have been winnable if not for Rees' turnovers and injuries - although the Michigan game we lost because our D made Devin Gardner look like Vince Young. If you count Golson, we have 53 starts lost to injury or suspension, which would have been the second highest in cfb this year. We also beat 10-win USC, 10-win ASU, and gave the Spartans their only loss of the season to keep them out of the NC game. I'd give Kelly a B+ for finishing 9-4 this year, given the difficult schedule, the injuries, Golson's suspension, and the fact that I think Kelly attempted to create an offense that would make Rees less susceptible to turnovers but ultimately couldn't

2014 - This season started out so well and then went so wrong. We finally saw the explosive offense that Kelly had been wanting with Golson under center. Unfortunately, the nature of the Kelly's offense that gave Golson the opportunity to create, improvise, and put up lots of TD's also gave him the freedom to create alot of turnovers. This is why this season has been so frustrating. We saw the closest this offense has come to reaching it's potential, but we also saw the same turnover issues and inconsistent QB play that have plagued the offense throughout the whole course of Kelly's time at ND. Kelly's not an idiot, I guarantee you he recognizes this is the consistent source of losing games we shouldn't lose and I guarantee you he's put more than enough effort into coaching Golson to avoid these turnovers - maybe Kelly just can't coach QB's, maybe his offense makes QB's more susceptible to turnovers, maybe he's just gotten unlucky with a string of QB's who have an incredible penchant for boneheaded throws and lack of ball security. The defense looked stellar at first, and then collapsed. I'm not sure what to make of the. The collapse came right after the Joe Schmidt injury, and he had been referred to as a coach on the field, so I'm sure that had something to do with it. We also had injuries to Day, Jones, Riggs, Collinsworth, Cage, and some I'm forgetting. And this isn't to mention the fact that we were already missing Russell (who many thought would've been right up there with Jaylon as our best player this year), Ishaq, Moore, and Hardy (and Daniels on O), which were 5 scholarship slots unable to contribute any sort of depth that would've been nice to have given the rash of injuries. Still, apart from the injuries and suspensions; apart from the last second losses to FSU, NW, and Louisville; apart from all the bad luck, the thing that makes this season the most disappointing is that the team gave up. The determination and will to compete that Kelly had noticeably instilled in his players was one of my main reasons for loving him as a coach, and the players lost it at the end of the season. We'll see if they get it back against LSU. But as it stands now, even despite the injuries and suspensions and all the bad luck, I'd give Kelly a C for this season.

So, admittedly there's cause for concern. This has been Kelly's worst season. But I also think it's worth noting that Kelly has gone through a run of bad luck that most coaches never have to experience. Sure many teams have separately experienced a 5 star QB bust, a season of bad luck with injuries, a season plagued by turnovers, a suspension of a starter or a star, etc. But all in combination and in multiple years in a row? No way. So to assert that any of 2010,11,13,or 14 were "regular" years and 8-5 is what can be expected from Kelly under "regular" circumstances is a bit unfair in my opinion. Kelly has had 4 seasons where his teams were relatively unlucky and they underachieved, and 1 season where his team was relatively lucky and overachieved. The point is, luck usually evens out over time but it hasn't yet for Kelly. So is Kelly a good coach? Yes, I think so. I think he is the kind of coach who is capable of winning 10 games a year on average - assuming that, while some seasons he'll be overall unlucky and some seasons he'll be overall lucky, luck will balance itself out over time. And I think 10 wins a year at Notre Dame makes someone a good coach. Is he an elite coach? I don't know. To me, an elite coach is someone who can consistently win 10 games a year AND take advantage of the seasons when things fall into place for your team by winning a national championship.
I think next year, for many reasons, will be a year in which things fall into place. We'll have most starters back plus Russell to replace Riggs, we'll have plenty of depth from young guys filling in for injured players, we play a schedule that looks challenging enough to get us into the playoffs but not too daunting. Statistics say that the amount of injuries we've suffered this year and the year before makes the probability of us being unlucky with injuries next year very unlikely. After two straight offseasons of teammates getting kicked off the team, I'm betting no one will do anything stupid this offseason. The only thing that concerns me is turnovers. If we shoot ourselves in the foot with turnovers again next season, then I think it's clear that Kelly is just a good coach who has some flaw in his coaching that makes his players susceptible to turnovers. But if we finally have an offense that reigns in the turnovers, then I think we've got an elite team next year and it will show in their record. I'll give Kelly a pass on this season and wait for next to see if he's a truly a good coach.

Nominate for "Longest Post of the Year (which I did not read)"
 

NCND

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Really? I feel like we're one of the softest teams I've ever seen. Our baddest dude under Kelly was a friendly Hawaiian guy with a fake girlfriend. Second baddest dude was a 325 pound teddy bear famous for his YouTube comedy.

Sadly, I agree with this.
 

IrishSteelhead

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Is Kelly REALLY a good coach?

Is Kelly REALLY a good coach?

Nominate for "Longest Post of the Year (which I did not read)"


I did until the first excuse was made, which didn't take long. Sorry for sounding like such a d-ck, but I'm 100% over excuses, especially in this thread.
 
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Domina Nostra

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"Lukewarm" is not giving the foremost Catholic university in the world its due. The University does not care about the US News ranking (if it did, it wouldn't reject so many perfect SATs and valedictorians each year, whose numbers improve US News rankings), and the 8-4 football team is on a solid trajectory to improve, as has been discussed.

I absolutely agree that they can do better than 8-4. I think 9.5 wins should be an average year. But getting to an 11 win average requires gray-shirting, over-signing, taking questionable kids, softening discipline and academic standards, etc. Why? Because stuff happens! You have to prepare for contingencies. That is what we can't do right now.

Totally disagree with the school not caring about its ranking. It's the biggest concern of the administration. There are not a lot perfect SAT score kids applying to ND, at all. So I don't think we can make the statement that ND rejects "so many" of them to further the school's Catholic mission.
 
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ulukinatme

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Nominate for "Longest Post of the Year (which I did not read)"

It's a long post, but I think he makes excellent points. While ultimately the HC is responsible for the result on the scoreboard, Kelly has certainly had to contend with a variety of issues the last 5 years. Defense has been a concern most years, although there's been a few seasons we've turned in very good results in that area. Quarterback has been a concern just about every year, although I think we're beginning to turn a corner in that department with guys like Malik, Kizer, etc. If we can stay healthy, 2015 could be a big year for us...we just have to avoid shooting ourselves in the foot with suspensions and stupid mistakes.
 

Domina Nostra

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I wish I could spend a week in the Bama weight room, then spent a week in ND's.

I just picture the attitude being a complete 180. As hard as Cochran pushes them, I'm sure they push each other harder.

I attribute a ton of their success to the fact that they get the #1 class over and over again. Those kids were rated so high because they were physical freaks before they got to UA, like Redfield and Bryant.

I am pretty sure Longo's results would be different if he had Alabama's roster.
 
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NDinL.A.

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I think it's unreasonable to expect a perennial 7-6 or 8-5 team to ever have a shot at the playoff, let alone a shot every few years. In order for the playoff to be our peak, we need to be a 9-4 or 10-3 team in a "regular" year.

And yet Mississippi St. did that this year. Not that unreasonable at all. Just 2 years ago, we were ranked #1 in the nation and would have been in the playoffs. And we're anything but a 10-3 team perennially.
 

Bluto

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I think the view of the SEC just blowing off class is silly and only fits an agenda of excuses that other schools cant be as successful. Sure, they might get some benefits that other kids don't, but they go to class.

One of my younger brothers best friends was the starting point gaurd for Clemson back in the day. He did not have to do shit academically. One of his classes was "the history of basketball". Test questions included "how many periods are in a basketball game?". On the travel busses they had "tutors" who would write papers for them as well. I think the shit that goes on at big time sports schools can't be overstated because it's completely insane how little of the student part remains in the phrase "student athlete" at those places.
 

Bluto

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In hindsight, it's clear Weis is a better offensive coach than Kelly. Weis just didn't perform well at all the other stuff like hiring assistants, recruiting linemen, etc.

I'm not sure I buy this. Do you think a Weis lead team would have put up even decent offensive numbers with Tommy Reese at QB? Stick Junior year Jimmy Clausen in the 2013 or 2014 offense and ND would have scored 50 points on everyone and been undefeated both seasons.
 

NDinL.A.

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I think the view of the SEC just blowing off class is silly and only fits an agenda of excuses that other schools cant be as successful. Sure, they might get some benefits that other kids don't, but they go to class.

They go to class from time to time, sure, but it is NOTHING like they have to go through at ND. Not even in the same universe. I would be typing all night if I told you all the stories I know of athletes at big-time schools skating their way through 'college', but I won't bother.

I'll just say that you are VASTLY underrating the difference between student-athletes at ND and their counterparts at most football factories...
 

irishtrain

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Funny how the discussion of classes and requirements take a turn toward how bad they want it at these sec schools. Your dealing with a kid who is there to sharpen his nfl stock thru the weight room and football training. They go to class -we all know that -its the class and the purpose of why they are there that's different. You don't have to be a scout to see they are minor league pro players not college guys. The university's purpose for having them on campus is to dominate a football game not educate themselves. Get this %$#@ right and make no mistake about it that at Notre Dame its get these guys educated like a regular student-or as close to possible. Why doesn't someone just come out and say this stuff on a national show. Because they're making millions reporting on this industry. It changes nothing when you say they are made to go to class. Most of these guys are football bums who when they are done with football will be looking for a job just like any other untrained young adult. They'll just have a few more $$$$$ in their pocket to start out with. The industry of college football has taken over the original college game.
 

irishtrain

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They go to class from time to time, sure, but it is NOTHING like they have to go through at ND. Not even in the same universe. I would be typing all night if I told you all the stories I know of athletes at big-time schools skating their way through 'college', but I won't bother.

I'll just say that you are VASTLY underrating the difference between student-athletes at ND and their counterparts at most football factories...

I played golf behind 2 dads and their sons all Notre Dame grads 3 years ago, and the said and I quote 'keep it like it is and play for a title every 10 yrs'. I agree but get ready for miserable seasons and $#@ whippings from the minor league franchises.
 

FDNYIrish1

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I friend of mine ( Brandon Lilly, google him if you'd like) has spent a lot of time consulting with some pretty big time strength programs, such as, Alabama. He told me his two biggest take a ways from his 2 week stent in Tuscaloosa..

1. Intensity is off the charts

2. Every single one of them is convinced they are going to the NFL and will do absolutely anything to just stay on the team, because they know Saban will over recruit and boot there ass.

He is pretty tight with the Kentucky strength staff. He says there players are soft physically and mentally and are starting to turn the corner.

Alabama, OSU and the old PITT strength coaches ( the Stache years) are/were the best in the biz.

Buddy Morris is definitely one of my all time favorites. He's now with the Arizona Cardinals. He was with the Wannstedt at Pitt.
The Kentucky strength staff is legit. Cutting edge stuff with GPS and fatigue and recovery etc.
Brandon Lilly is a beast btw.
I think the thing people need to remember, is that the role of the strength coach and the actual time they get to spend with the players is actually quite minimal with all the time and practice restrictions. When you're starting with 9s and 10s, you have a tremendous head start. There are so many variables that come into play in a college setting.
 

ulukinatme

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They go to class from time to time, sure, but it is NOTHING like they have to go through at ND. Not even in the same universe. I would be typing all night if I told you all the stories I know of athletes at big-time schools skating their way through 'college', but I won't bother.

I'll just say that you are VASTLY underrating the difference between student-athletes at ND and their counterparts at most football factories...

It really is a 40 year decision when you decide to attend ND. Many schools aren't invested in a student-athlete's future, but with a good degree in your hand it means you'll never be screwed if the NFL's door shuts in your face.
 

NorthDakota

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I absolutely agree that they can do better than 8-4. I think 9.5 wins should be an average year. But getting to an 11 win average requires gray-shirting, over-signing, taking questionable kids, softening discipline and academic standards, etc. Why? Because stuff happens! You have to prepare for contingencies. That is what we can't do right now.

Totally disagree with the school not caring about its ranking. It's the biggest concern of the administration. There are not a lot perfect SAT score kids applying to ND, at all. So I don't think we can make the statement that ND rejects "so many" of them to further the school's Catholic mission.

They go to class from time to time, sure, but it is NOTHING like they have to go through at ND. Not even in the same universe. I would be typing all night if I told you all the stories I know of athletes at big-time schools skating their way through 'college', but I won't bother.

I'll just say that you are VASTLY underrating the difference between student-athletes at ND and their counterparts at most football factories...

I'll put it this way, at NDSU, we have a player who ends up on the deans list, when he came here academically ineligible... Showed up late for, and fell asleep during tests.

It's borderline impossible to compete against schools who accept that sort of behavior. If it is happening at my school, it's happening at the big football schools outside of ND and Stanford.
 

IrishinSyria

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I've said it before, but my standard for success at ND would be something like this:

a: maintain academic success
b: In a 5 year period, have 1 great season (11-12 wins, playoffs), 2 good seasons (8-10 wins), 1 average season (6-7 wins), and one bad season (no bowl.) This should be evaluated over a 10 year period, as random chance plays too big of a role to look at it 5 years at a time.
 

MNIrishman

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I absolutely agree that they can do better than 8-4. I think 9.5 wins should be an average year. But getting to an 11 win average requires gray-shirting, over-signing, taking questionable kids, softening discipline and academic standards, etc. Why? Because stuff happens! You have to prepare for contingencies. That is what we can't do right now.

Totally disagree with the school not caring about its ranking. It's the biggest concern of the administration. There are not a lot perfect SAT score kids applying to ND, at all. So I don't think we can make the statement that ND rejects "so many" of them to further the school's Catholic mission.

The bolded is just wrong. In my conversations with Fr. John, we have discussed this and the gist was that the University cares about excellence, not rankings, which are arbitrary. If anything, the "big goal" of the University right now can be described as admittance to the AAU.

There are a decent number of perfect SAT score kids applying to ND, but it's hard to find statistics on that. Instead, I'll point out that in 2002 (the number is much higher today) the university rejected 39% of valedictorians applying (The Selectivity Illusion - The Atlantic). Another, more recent article I found showed rejection of more than 800 valedictorians (Lizzy Seeberg's Family Feels Rejected by Notre Dame as Football Star Is Not Charged, please forgive the source). My point is that the University is accepting well-rounded students at the cost of higher statistics which boost US News rankings.
 
K

koonja

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I play hoops with the brother of the S/C Coach at Mississippi State (yes, he'd kick Longo's ass up and down). Not saying Dan Mullen would get offered the Michigan job, but from the way he was talking, that staff would be very excited about that. No surprise.

*Wrong thread. My bad. Too much Gin and not enough Juice.*
 
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BleedBlueGold

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General Colon Bowel's long winded post actually makes a lot of good points. It's something I've mentioned numerous times off-site in random conversation.

The short version:
2010: Transition period, strong finish
2011: QB issues, major turnover problem, some defense issues
2012: 12-0 regular season, embarrassed in NC game
2013: QB issues (EG suspended), turnovers, tons of injuries, some defense issues
2104: QB issues, major turnover and injury problem, suspensions, complete collapse to finish the season

To sum up, BK has had success only when things go completely right. Trending during his ND tenure: QB issues, turnovers, injuries, depth issues.

However when things are clicking, this team is a top 10 team without a doubt. Looking back, I still believe that 2011, 2013, and 2014 should have been 10+ win seasons. A lot of the games he lost those years were because of complete meltdowns w/ numerous turnovers, defensive lapses, etc. Three of his five seasons horrible things have derailed what could have been great seasons. I think BK is a good coach, but if these things continue to be a trend, then it's less about bad luck and more about bad coaching. I hope BK is around the next year or two, because I think those seasons will make or break his time in South Bend.
 

chicago51

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If you at Kelly's career as a whole it is impossible to say the guy is not good coach. Great? Elite? Debatable and perhaps not but the man is a good football coach.
 

Irish Houstonian

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Really? I feel like we're one of the softest teams I've ever seen. Our baddest dude under Kelly was a friendly Hawaiian guy with a fake girlfriend. Second baddest dude was a 325 pound teddy bear famous for his YouTube comedy.

Nothing against those guys, but that is so true.

Bobby Bowden used to say that every championship team needs one or two guys who grew up without a mailbox. And we all know exactly what he means by that -- the problem is that those guys tend not to gravitate to (or be eligible for) ND.
 
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