SEC/LSU Graduation Rates

[Legacy]

Did you know that Georgia football's Graduation Success Rate (GSR) for 2013 (82%) is now tied with Vanderbilt's for the highest graduation rate in the SEC? It suddenly jumped 13 points from 69%. That's two points less than Navy's. Three years ago, Georgia's GSR was 41%.

Over the last four years, LSU's GSR has remained in the same ballpark - 67%('10), 77% ('11), 77%('12), 74%('13). But the GSR allows schools to exclude transfers, quitting football, leaving early for the NFL. In 2012, LSU had the second highest GSR to Vanderbilt.

So, Georgia football's disciplinary problems and rash of transfers, which should continue into the next year's GSR calculations, may account for the sudden jump. When they get control of disciplinary problems, it may well drop.

LSU was able to exclude 30 of 83 scholarship players over a four year period because of this way of calculating grad rates of their football players. FromLSU's yearly listings of football players graduating over the 2011-2013, 62 players graduated. Of those listed, 30 were walkons, 2 lost their scholarships, 2 players were listed twice and 2 received medical scholarships. So, from the 2011-2013 graduating classes (six year period for graduation is counted) 26 scholarship players graduated from LSU. That's a little over 8 scholarship players a year who finish their degrees in six years. LSU signed 96 players to LOI from 2009-12. The most popular major for scholarship players who graduated is General Studies.

Over the last two years, LSU has had 18 players leave early for the NFL draft. Georgia has had three.

LSU's federal graduation rate for 2012, which counts all (scholarship) players who enter the school, was 41% (Bootleg 2013 analysis). The federal grad rate is the calculation method used for all students.

Many coaches get bonuses based on the GSR. Les Miles gets $200,000 for meeting certain GSR rates. Richt gets $50,000.

THE BOOTLEG'S 2014 GRADUATION RATE ANALYSIS (Bootleg does annual reports)

 

[IrishLax]

The proliferation of online classes have allowed football programs to easily insulate players while demanding minimal/no work and progressing towards a degree.

 

[Legacy]

Auburn on-line class violations - the NCAA

Auburn on-line class violations - the NCAA

The proliferation of online classes have allowed football programs to easily insulate players while demanding minimal/no work and progressing towards a degree.

"In 2006, Auburn sociology professor Jim Gundlach detailed a case of academic fraud to The New York Times. Athletes, mostly football players, were flocking to a “directed-reading” program run by a professor notorious for handing out A’s while requiring little to no class work...

The NCAA once considered academic fraud a most egregious act, one that violated its core principle of educating student-athletes...

This time, the NCAA went by the letter of the law. All those football players taking the easy class were considered a coincidence. Receiving A’s while doing no work merely was a secondary violation. The NCAA turned out easier to pass than sociology.

The Associated Press’ story summed it up with unintentional comedy:

AUBURN, Ala. – The NCAA has determined that Auburn did not commit academic fraud in allowing (football players) to take courses that required little or no time in the classroom"

NCAA naps during golden age of cheating (Sept, 2008)

 

[phork]

Come back when you crack 90%.

 

[MNIrishman]

Did you know that Georgia football's Graduation Success Rate (GSR) for 2013 (82%) is now tied with Vanderbilt's for the highest graduation rate in the SEC? It suddenly jumped 13 points from 69%. That's two points less than Navy's. Three years ago, Georgia's GSR was 41%.

Over the last four years, LSU's GSR has remained in the same ballpark - 67%('10), 77% ('11), 77%('12), 74%('13). But the GSR allows schools to exclude transfers, quitting football, leaving early for the NFL. In 2012, LSU had the second highest GSR to Vanderbilt.

So, Georgia football's disciplinary problems and rash of transfers, which should continue into the next year's GSR calculations, may account for the sudden jump. When they get control of disciplinary problems, it may well drop.

LSU was able to exclude 30 of 83 scholarship players over a four year period because of this way of calculating grad rates of their football players. FromLSU's yearly listings of football players graduating over the 2011-2013, 62 players graduated. Of those listed, 30 were walkons, 2 lost their scholarships, 2 players were listed twice and 2 received medical scholarships. So, from the 2011-2013 graduating classes (six year period for graduation is counted) 26 scholarship players graduated from LSU. That's a little over 8 scholarship players a year who finish their degrees in six years. LSU signed 96 players to LOI from 2009-12. The most popular major for scholarship players who graduated is General Studies.

Over the last two years, LSU has had 18 players leave early for the NFL draft. Georgia has had three.

LSU's federal graduation rate for 2012, which counts all (scholarship) players who enter the school, was 41% (Bootleg 2013 analysis). The federal grad rate is the calculation method used for all students.

Many coaches get bonuses based on the GSR. Les Miles gets $200,000 for meeting certain GSR rates. Richt gets $50,000.

THE BOOTLEG'S 2014 GRADUATION RATE ANALYSIS (Bootleg does annual reports)

How the hell is this a major? Even the most general of liberal arts programs try to get you to improve your knowledge in some field that is relatively defined. I can understand, perhaps, majoring in a "Program of Liberal Studies" because this implies a well-read graduate who can communicate effectively, or in general "Engineering" as Harvey Mudd students do, as this implies strong analytical and mathematical capability even if it lacks the specificity of "Chemical Engineering" or "Electrical Engineering." However, "General Studies" means nothing. It's trash and honestly, something of an insult against student athletes who are supposed to be there to earn an education in return for their athletic endeavors.

 

[johnnycando]

So are we disgusted by this lack of integrity, or jealous of our competitors perks?

I hate the self-flagellation personally.

Opus Dei.

Who's next?

These schools are strictly football factories.

 

[dshans]

How the hell is this a major? ..."General Studies" means nothing.

If my memory hasn't failed me completely – or colored by too much story telling over the years, Notre Dame had a General Studies program back in my day. It was within the College of Arts and Letter and was interdisciplinary. I had a few friends who were GS majors and trust me when I say it was damn difficult. It involved the highest level courses across the liberal arts spectrum.

I'm not defending any other school's program since I have no idea just what they entail. It does raise an eyebrow or two when you see how many "student" athletes are enrolled in the programs when compared to the number of "mere" students.

 

[MNIrishman]

So are we disgusted by this lack of integrity, or jealous of our competitors perks?

I hate the self-flagellation personally.

Opus Dei.

Who's next?

These schools are strictly football factories.

Real majors and graduation rates are at the core of ND's mission. Football is not. Failing to provide an education to recruits whom you promised an education isn't a perk; it's abominable.

You can maintain your principles and stay true to your mission without "self-flagellation," which is why I believe that we shouldn't ever compromise our insistence on providing the highest quality education to all who are admitted, but why I also believe that when it comes to institutional marijuana policy or NCAA violations, we should adhere to the standards of our peers.

If you want ND to throw out everything that constitutes its identity as an institution, you're not an ND fan by definition.

 

[scUM Hater]

Let's not do this....AGAIN.....Just because we are playing a SEC team let's OT rehash this topic again.

 

[johnnycando]

Real majors and graduation rates are at the core of ND's mission. Football is not. Failing to provide an education to recruits whom you promised an education isn't a perk; it's abominable.

You can maintain your principles and stay true to your mission without "self-flagellation," which is why I believe that we shouldn't ever compromise our insistence on providing the highest quality education to all who are admitted, but why I also believe that when it comes to institutional marijuana policy or NCAA violations, we should adhere to the standards of our peers.

If you want ND to throw out everything that constitutes its identity as an institution, you're not an ND fan by definition.

I'm an ND fan. That can't be questioned.

My point is we have to play these knuckle draggers, and try to stay competitive all the while providing these core mission and values..

We need to start our own league.

Invite a few devout academic schools.

Then win.

 

[MNIrishman]

If my memory hasn't failed me completely – or colored by too much story telling over the years, Notre Dame had a General Studies program back in my day. It was within the College of Arts and Letter and was interdisciplinary. I had a few friends who were GS majors and trust me when I say it was damn difficult. It involved the highest level courses across the liberal arts spectrum.

I'm not defending any other school's program since I have no idea just what they entail. It does raise an eyebrow or two when you see how many "student" athletes are enrolled in the programs when compared to the number of "mere" students.

Did this perhaps morph into the PLS program? Despite its name, that is a very challenging program that expects something like an average of 100 pages of reading a day throughout most of a student's career. It wouldn't surprise me if ND changed the nomenclature to reflect its breadth, but within one college and with strict curricular expectations.

 

[MNIrishman]

I'm an ND fan. That can't be questioned.

My point is we have to play these knuckle draggers, and try to stay competitive all the while providing these core mission and values..

We need to start our own league.

Invite a few devout academic schools.

Then win.

Gotcha. What makes me sad is that "devout academic school" needs to be a descriptor for "insists on providing athletes with a quality education." This should absolutely be a norm for universities; the expectation should absolutely be that, if you choose to attend, you will complete meaningful work towards a meaningful degree. The definition of "meaningful degree" should be determined by consensus of the faculty and it should be considered morally repugnant to reduce your expectations.

I'm biased because it's what I grew up with, but in many cases I like the way Ohio State runs their academic program for athletes. They offer so damn much support for their athletes that they have a ridiculous number of football players majoring in engineering:

Of course, I agree that they have many significant failings, but it seems they limit invented majors (even if they have a preponderance of exceedingly easy majors of questionable marketability). This should be the minimum standard.

I don't know about starting our own league, but I'd like to see a movement towards an NFL D-league. The change towards returning higher education to its goals begins with giving athletes who want no part of "student" being granted an alternative. Of course, without the NFL on board, that's probably as much a pipe dream as anything.

 

[dshans]

Did this perhaps morph into the PLS program? Despite its name, that is a very challenging program that expects something like an average of 100 pages of reading a day throughout most of a student's career. It wouldn't surprise me if ND changed the nomenclature to reflect its breadth, but within one college and with strict curricular expectations.

Very possible. I meant to suggest the possibility of just such a change but clearly forgot to do so. I just remember that these guys were some of the most intelligent, inquisitive and quirky I knew at ND.



[and "quirky," coming from me says a lot]

 

[CarrollVermin]

A couple things....

First this thread pisses me off. Yes, the graduation rate is lower, and yes this is another example of the "holier than thou" attitude this fan base has. I have a degree from ND, and a PhD from an SEC school.

LSU rates are lower because they place more athletes in the NFL. Simply, their athletes are better than ours and they are a hotter commodity in the NFL.

Second, and worth noting, the athlete graduation rate is actually higher than the General student population. So while you may want to get on a high horse about our private institution, remember LSU is a public, land grant institution...that changes your student dynamic completely.

Enough with comparing academics.

 

[CarrollVermin]

As for general studies...its a combination of several minors, intended to help graduate students with an abnormal number of hours from a variety of disciplines. It is actually being phased out as they implement new academic tracking systems. Again, as a public school with almost quadruple the ND enrollment, sometimes students don't get properly advised and General Studis was designed to help them earn a degree.

 

[MNIrishman]

A couple things....

First this thread pisses me off. Yes, the graduation rate is lower, and yes this is another example of the "holier than thou" attitude this fan base has. I have a degree from ND, and a PhD from an SEC school.

LSU rates are lower because they place more athletes in the NFL. Simply, their athletes are better than ours and they are a hotter commodity in the NFL.

Second, and worth noting, the athlete graduation rate is actually higher than the General student population. So while you may want to get on a high horse about our private institution, remember LSU is a public, land grant institution...that changes your student dynamic completely.

Enough with comparing academics.

We're not talking about the general athlete graduation rate--- the topic relates to academics associated with the football program. I don't know if the OP is correct, but if he is, that 41% FGR statistic is SUBSTANTIALLY less than the student body as a whole (69.1%, https://sites01.lsu.edu/wp/lovepurple/2014/01/14/gradrate/).

So as a fan, this bugs me because it would mean that only about four out of eleven guys would eventually earn a degree from the school. It's admirable that the GSR is improving, and I'm glad that the SEC's football success seems to be translating into increased academic resources for athletes. I'm also glad that they're phasing out the General Studies degree through improved advising. Everyone has a passion in life, and even if that passion is something like sports management or communications (popularly held as "easier" programs), they should be allowed to pursue it if the school has the program. I believe that the lack of meaning behind "General Studies" shortchanges the athletes, since it requires a close examination by the employer of the curriculum taken to determine whether real work was done---and few employers are willing to spend that much time on one application.

And that's my main point; a school shouldn't be shortchanging athletes. That isn't a holier than thou attitude, and it isn't an anti-SEC attitude. Michigan does it, and so does USC. A school should be providing the athletes with the resources to succeed in the classroom, and holding them to their academic commitment as tightly as they hold them to their athletic commitment. The school should be providing them with the freedom of choice in study (Jim Harbaugh's main complaint about his time at M was that they dictated a limited set of majors for football players).

If the athletes leave early for the NFL, that's awesome. The student gets his dream job and the opportunity to attend school is available to someone else. However, as fans, we should in general be critical of schools taking advantage of athletes while providing little value in return. I admit I jump on the anti-SEC bandwagon a lot, but this issue is a whole lot bigger than just the SEC, where there's a lot of abusive behavior, but also a lot of opportunity (big fan of Barrett Jones).

My ideal solution, as I proposed above, was not to grind the SEC or anyone else into the dirt through the NCAA, but the provision of an avenue directly to professional ball for kids who don't want to be at school, so that no one is forced to go through the motions for three pointless years. I also admitted this was a pipe dream, but what can I say, I'm a romantic.

 

[irishtrain]

We all know what goes on-Notre Dame does it one way and the sec type schools do it another( ala football first). We all know which one produces wins and which one produces people who are ready for the real world. Where do you want to go and what is your purpose for college. Money and a chance at pro sports attracts the non college guy to places where they can hide and play football. Join the IVY league or join the party. I'm ok either way and will only pull for Notre Dame. What bothers me is how the rest of the country doesn't even comment on this subject anymore. They want wins to pound their chest. I'm not a fan of college football anymore. Just someone extremely interested in the Irish.

 

[Legacy]

We're not talking about the general athlete graduation rate--- the topic relates to academics associated with the football program. I don't know if the OP is correct, but if he is, that 41% FGR statistic is SUBSTANTIALLY less than the student body as a whole (69.1%, https://sites01.lsu.edu/wp/lovepurple/2014/01/14/gradrate/).

And that's my main point; a school shouldn't be shortchanging athletes. That isn't a holier than thou attitude, and it isn't an anti-SEC attitude. Michigan does it, and so does USC. A school should be providing the athletes with the resources to succeed in the classroom, and holding them to their academic commitment as tightly as they hold them to their athletic commitment. The school should be providing them with the freedom of choice in study (Jim Harbaugh's main complaint about his time at M was that they dictated a limited set of majors for football players).

If the athletes leave early for the NFL, that's awesome. The student gets his dream job and the opportunity to attend school is available to someone else. However, as fans, we should in general be critical of schools taking advantage of athletes while providing little value in return. I admit I jump on the anti-SEC bandwagon a lot, but this issue is a whole lot bigger than just the SEC, where there's a lot of abusive behavior, but also a lot of opportunity (big fan of Barrett Jones).

Well said. Call them Team A or Team B or whatever. This is about the (student) athletes at major universities whose mission is to educate their students for success after college. You cannot take a Stanford/Vandy/NW education standard and apply it to other colleges or other students. Football players come to universities from all different backgrounds with varying levels of academic preparation. Comparing them is unfair. But there should be a standard that does not hide disservices to players in programs and is reflective of how well schools are educating their students. Not a standard that shows a program is graduating more players because a high number of players are transferring out or go to the NFL. Not a standard that rewards a coach for pressing players to transfer out of a program or not renewing their scholarship. This is an issue that crosses so many other aspects - overrecruiting, NCAA oversight, big football in the era of media millions, player rights, fan disinterest, etc. What happened at North Carolina was criminal. How many people were complicite there for so long to hide that?

As for LSU all student vs football player grad rates - All student grad rate-67%, All student athletes-64%, Football - 45% (Fed Rate), GSR 71% in this database; for Football - Whites - 83%, Blacks - 27% NCAA Grad Search database

I'd also like to point out that during the last four years (2010-13 grad classes) six scholarship football players were named to the SEC Academic Honor Roll. Three of those six graduated with Masters degrees in addition to their Bachelors.

 

[Legacy]

Also, Notre Dame's 94% GSR drops to 75% with the federal rate.

The Bottom Ten?
Cal 44%
Florida International 47%
Troy 48%
Oklahoma 51%
San Jose St. 51%
Central Michigan 53%
USC 53%
Arkansas 54%
Florida Atlantic 54%
Mississippi 55%

THE BOOTLEG'S 2014 GRADUATION RATE ANALYSIS