Is CBB in worse shape than CFB?

scUM Hater

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Because the SEC bias isn't there for the 4 letter network. That is why the perception of NCCAB is going downhill. I would much rather watch college than the Not Basketball Anymore league.
 

T Town Tommy

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Because the SEC bias isn't there for the 4 letter network. That is why the perception of NCCAB is going downhill. I would much rather watch college than the Not Basketball Anymore league.

ESPN has rode Duke's nuts for years in CBB. Very openly... and very unashamedly.
 

anarin

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I laugh when I read how awesome of a coach Calipari is

I get a really good chuckle.
 
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rectum no place for head

rectum no place for head

Who started this thread? The Syracuse athletic department is flush with money because Jim Boeheim is a good basketball coach, a good recruiter, a good person, and in forty year career, he has never driven a hard bargain with the university when it comes to salary. College basketball and football programs are not about student/athletes. It is all about the money these programs can generate for the university. The NCAA is not a caring governing body, concerned for the welfare of student/athletes, and the integrity of the games they play. It was founded by a man who wanted a piece of the sports revenue pie that is baked on major college campuses. At Notre Dame, it doesn't take a Mendoza Business graduate to follow a money trail. Ask Charlie Weis. Fatman's still picking up dollars on the trail that he stumbled or belly flopped on to. The athletes coming out of high school did not create the system. Granted, a few benefit, but they are in the minority. Florida State, Alabama, Notre Dame - it's all about the money!
 

T Town Tommy

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I laugh when I read how awesome of a coach Calipari is

I get a really good chuckle.

He is not a good x and o coach. That's for sure.

But the criticism for him and one and done isn't warranted either. Every coach in America plays that system - even the untouchable Coach K - and yet they get a free pass when they sign 1-2. At least Calipari has offered up some solutions to get away from one and done - and that's something almost no other coach has done.

I don't watch CBB like I used to simply due to the fact that players leave almost as soon as they arrive. March Madness is still a great three weeks or so, but it is hard to stomach the regular season.
 

anarin

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He is not a good x and o coach. That's for sure.

But the criticism for him and one and done isn't warranted either. Every coach in America plays that system - even the untouchable Coach K - and yet they get a free pass when they sign 1-2. At least Calipari has offered up some solutions to get away from one and done - and that's something almost no other coach has done.

I don't watch CBB like I used to simply due to the fact that players leave almost as soon as they arrive. March Madness is still a great three weeks or so, but it is hard to stomach the regular season.

He gets criticized because he's a scumbag. His track record at his previous two stops prove this.
 

T Town Tommy

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He gets criticized because he's a scumbag. His track record at his previous two stops prove this.

Didn't read where there was evidence he did anything wrong. Camby took money at UMass and said so without anyone associated with the program knowing. The D. Rose stuff at Memphis was just as much the fault of the NCAA as it was with the school. The NCAA green lights Rose to play and comes back what.. two three years later and says they messed up. Then slaps a school for that? Come on.
 

wizards8507

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Come on man, go tell the universities they should flush all that revenue down the toilet. Believe it or not, college sports are more about going pro for 90% of the athletes. There are positives to it.
Talent doesn't drive revenue in college sports like it does professional sports. If the entire recruiting pool was driven down to 2- and 3-stars and below because everyone else went to a professional league, people would still tune in to watch Notre Dame football and Duke basketball.
 

anarin

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Didn't read where there was evidence he did anything wrong. Camby took money at UMass and said so without anyone associated with the program knowing. The D. Rose stuff at Memphis was just as much the fault of the NCAA as it was with the school. The NCAA green lights Rose to play and comes back what.. two three years later and says they messed up. Then slaps a school for that? Come on.

I'm not even going to debate Calipari with you. You're right, he's an angel. All the top talent just flock to him because he's a likeable guy. :)
 
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Lol, you're a dud. The kid's dad played for us, as did his uncle. Good try.

You have just provided my assertion that Charlotte Catholic recruits black athletes with anecdotal evidence - that Hood's father and uncle attended Charlotte Catholic, and that there is a history of recruitment of black athletes to enhance the high school's sports program.
 
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Talent doesn't drive revenue in college sports like it does professional sports. If the entire recruiting pool was driven down to 2- and 3-stars and below because everyone else went to a professional league, people would still tune in to watch Notre Dame football and Duke basketball.

As I stated earlier, don't put your head where it doesn't belong.
 

T Town Tommy

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I'm not even going to debate Calipari with you. You're right, he's an angel. All the top talent just flock to him because he's a likeable guy. :)

They flock to him because they get to the pros. All he needs to do is show them five star players the average salary of former players currently in the NBA.

Until you can put the evidence out there that he is doing something wrong, then I agree... it isn't worth debating.
 
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Who started this thread? The Syracuse athletic department is flush with money because Jim Boeheim is a good basketball coach, a good recruiter, a good person, and in forty year career, he has never driven a hard bargain with the university when it comes to salary. College basketball and football programs are not about student/athletes. It is all about the money these programs can generate for the university. The NCAA is not a caring governing body, concerned for the welfare of student/athletes, and the integrity of the games they play. It was founded by a man who wanted a piece of the sports revenue pie that is baked on major college campuses. At Notre Dame, it doesn't take a Mendoza Business graduate to follow a money trail. Ask Charlie Weis. Fatman's still picking up dollars on the trail that he stumbled or belly flopped on to. The athletes coming out of high school did not create the system. Granted, a few benefit, but they are in the minority. Florida State, Alabama, Notre Dame - it's all about the money!

For the sake of clarity, let me reiterate.
 

GoldenDomer

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You have just provided my assertion that Charlotte Catholic recruits black athletes with anecdotal evidence - that Hood's father and uncle attended Charlotte Catholic, and that there is a history of recruitment of black athletes to enhance the high school's sports program.

Hahahaha we had 2 black kids on our roster last year. Elijah who is from a family of alumni, and a 4th string RB who never played a down. Our program is composed of well to do, unassuming white kids who are extremely coachable and fit like a glove in our system. As Coach Jim Oddo says, "if we're recruiting, our recruiters need to be fired."

Typical hater who probably got his teeth kicked in by the Red Pain in your HS days.

Look at these thugs

tfR41.Em.138.jpeg
 
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BobbyMac

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As far as total number of viewers or percentage of those who watched?

Nielson ratings. I'd have to look it up to find out what the viewership was in millions. If i remember correctly, the '79 NCG was a 24. Game 6 of the '98 Finals was a 22. How that translates into total viewers, I'm not sure. Obviously, there were more TV's in '98 but the competition for those viewers grew exponentially in those 20 years with cable's explosion in channels. If I had to guess, I'd go with the '79 NCG.

.
 
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Hahahaha we had 2 black kids on our roster last year. Elijah who is from a family of alumni, and a 4th string RB who never played a down. Our program is composed of well to do, unassuming white kids who are extremely coachable and fit like a glove in our system. As Coach Jim Oddo says, "if we're recruiting, our recruiters need to be fired."

Typical hater who probably got his teeth kicked in by the Red Pain in your HS days.

Look at these thugs

tfR41.Em.138.jpeg

It is good to know that well to do, unassuming white kids have a place they can call their own - Charlotte Catholic. In the fifties, many Catholics in major cities such as Chicago, Cleveland, and Detroit sought such refuge in the metropolitan suburbs. It was called White Flight. Like the student body of Charlotte Catholic, they were seeking such a cultural oasis. Might I remind you, when you use the word catholic(small c), it means inclusive.
 

BobbyMac

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Talent doesn't drive revenue in college sports like it does professional sports. If the entire recruiting pool was driven down to 2- and 3-stars and below because everyone else went to a professional league, people would still tune in to watch Notre Dame football and Duke basketball.


Notre Dame football yes, for decades to come. Duke basketball a year or two. Look at how UNC has fallen and they were even with Duke in popularity a few years ago. Duke would fall off the map if they weren't any good in no time, especially if Coach K left.. Their history effectively started with Bill Foster's late 70's teams with Gene Banks, Mike Gminski and Jim Spanarkel but didn't become a national darling until Coach K's '86 team that lost to Louisville.

.
 

GoldenDomer

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It is good to know that well to do, unassuming white kids have a place they can call their own - Charlotte Catholic. In the fifties, many Catholics in major cities such as Chicago, Cleveland, and Detroit sought such refuge in the metropolitan suburbs. It was called White Flight. Like the student body of Charlotte Catholic, they were seeking such a cultural oasis. Might I remind you, when you use the word catholic(small c), it means inclusive.

Wait, so are we a "cultural oasis" or a machine using black athletes to win football games?

Or are you just some troll trying put down a HS football team that you know nothing about because you got nothing better to do? Idiot.
 

wizards8507

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Notre Dame football yes, for decades to come. Duke basketball a year or two. Look at how UNC has fallen and they were even with Duke in popularity a few years ago. Duke would fall off the map if they weren't any good in no time, especially if Coach K left.. Their history effectively started with Bill Foster's late 70's teams with Gene Banks, Mike Gminski and Jim Spanarkel but didn't become a national darling until Coach K's '86 team that lost to Louisville.
Duke wouldn't be bad. I'm talking about dilution of the ENTIRE talent pool. Duke becomes a team of two and three stars but so does every other team.
 

BobbyMac

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It is good to know that well to do, unassuming white kids have a place they can call their own - Charlotte Catholic. In the fifties, many Catholics in major cities such as Chicago, Cleveland, and Detroit sought such refuge in the metropolitan suburbs. It was called White Flight. Like the student body of Charlotte Catholic, they were seeking such a cultural oasis. Might I remind you, when you use the word catholic(small c), it means inclusive.

Your Chicago reference doesn't fit. White kids have always went to the traditionals in the city. Brother Rice, De La Salle, Leo, Gordon Tech, Mt Carmel, St Ignatius, St Rita, St Pats and Marist I can think up without looking. What does white flight have to do with what you guys are beefing about? I guess you should listen to your own words... Don't stick your head where it doesn't belong. I'm just bustin' your chops, sorta.
 

BobbyMac

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Duke wouldn't be bad. I'm talking about dilution of the ENTIRE talent pool. Duke becomes a team of two and three stars but so does every other team.

You guys are over thinking this. It doesn't mater if the talent pool is reduced. You'll never miss the kids that go pro out of high school. Look at Wichita State, they were the best team in the country last year. If you play the tourney 100 times, they win more than anyone else.

I bring that up because it illustrates the opportunity in the current system for the WSU's and Butler's of the world to beat more physically talented teams with more experienced teams.

The star driven mentality only goes so far in college. Unlike football, 5 good upperclassmen from a mid major can beat a power 5 team ANY time they toss it up.
 

stlnd01

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College basketball's a mess not because of one-and-dones (though turning over 75% of the sport's recognizable names every year doesn't help), or because academic/ethical standards are even lower than football's. It's a mess because it's got the most useless regular season in all of sports. Unless you're watching for sheer love of the game or a particular program, there's not much point to anything that happens before March 1.
Glorious upsets might happen on a wintry January night. Kids storm the court. That's cool. But in the end the good teams all make the tournament, and then they go sort it out. It's the exact opposite of college football, where every game matters. And there's a reason one's so much more popular than the other.
 

BobbyMac

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College basketball's a mess not because of one-and-dones (though turning over 75% of the sport's recognizable names every year doesn't help), or because academic/ethical standards are even lower than football's. It's a mess because it's got the most useless regular season in all of sports. Unless you're watching for sheer love of the game or a particular program, there's not much point to anything that happens before March 1.
Glorious upsets might happen on a wintry January night. Kids storm the court. That's cool. But in the end the good teams all make the tournament, and then they go sort it out. It's the exact opposite of college football, where every game matters. And there's a reason one's so much more popular than the other.

So you must HATE baseball.
 

IRISHDODGER

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Many of you keep saying that college basketball is a mess and I would say that it's been all down hill since 1979. There has never been a higher rated basketball game, college or pro since Bird and Magic. The #2 game was the '92 final between the Fab 5 and the Duke squad with Laettner, Hurley and Hill. Even the Bulls - Jazz clincher in '98 (highest rated NBA game ever) was less than the '79 championship game.

That's true. The tournament is a joke now. Unlike CFB, every game does not matter. Get upset by a cellar dweller? That's ok...just do well enough to qualify for tourney. The tournament used to be truly a reward to get in when there were only 16 teams. Then it doubled to 32. At that time it was still a challenge w/ being as diluted as it is now. It's doubled to 64 & then they had to add more spots.

As much as former ND coach, Digger Phelps, got complacent towards the end of his career, he really took ND to new levels looking back when you consider it was only a 32 team tourney. Brey goes one & done to a lower seeded team in a pool of 68 teams.

The one & done is a mockery. All the kid has to do is acadmically qualify & then stay eligible for that first Fall semester. Once Spring rolls around, I doubt they'd even have to go to class b/c by the time it was realized that they flunked out, the bball season would be over.

The NBA just needs to open the D-League to these kids, but it doesn't cost them money to use the NCAA as a proving ground. Don't forget, like MLB; NBA contracts are guaranteed, so there's a big risk in drafting a high schooler. I still don't understand why the NBA doesn't want to spend money to develop high school prospects who don't want to attend college or are possibly good enough to play in the pros immediately yet they continue to subsidize the WNBA which is a complete money loser. Only thing I can guess, is PC run amok.
 

stlnd01

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So you must HATE baseball.

I love baseball. Baseball's a marathon. Individual games don't matter that much and they're not really portrayed as mattering. But surviving the season and making the playoffs is hard. Unlike college hoops.
 

IrishinSyria

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While I mostly agree with you, I'd like to point out that the situation of the Ivies has a lot to do with 1) Being among the oldest universities in the country, and thereby establishing a successful alumni base in the most powerful area of the country before many other universities even existed 2) A reputation for elite research, drawing donations from all over the place to fund things like medical schools that constitute enormous fractions of endowments and expenditures 3) An elitist attitude that draws wealthy WASPs from all over and 4) Location, location, location.

Football could have helped Harvard a bit, but a few million a year pales in comparison to a $30B endowment, which was already large before the decision to mitigate football was made.

I'd love to see ND develop the same degree of academic reputation as the Ivies, but to do that we'd have to sacrifice some of our core principles, such as the intensely Catholic nature of Our Lady's University. We'd also likely have to make some compromises to our undergraduate focus (though the success of Princeton and Dartmouth implies otherwise).

I believe it is possible to have an elite academic school that compromises nothing while also having a successful football program. For that, I think we should follow Stanford, Princeton, or Navy (Work with me. These are historic football powers. I understand only Stanford is presently at an elite level. Just throwing out examples of schools that either presently or at one point successfully fused the best academics on earth with the best football on earth.)

According to at least one source, Notre Dame already is Ivy caliber. It won't out compete the big 3 of the Ivy league (Princeton, Yale, Harvard) but it's academically as good or better than the rest of the schools.
 

tussin

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You guys are over thinking this. It doesn't mater if the talent pool is reduced. You'll never miss the kids that go pro out of high school. Look at Wichita State, they were the best team in the country last year. If you play the tourney 100 times, they win more than anyone else.

I bring that up because it illustrates the opportunity in the current system for the WSU's and Butler's of the world to beat more physically talented teams with more experienced teams.

The star driven mentality only goes so far in college. Unlike football, 5 good upperclassmen from a mid major can beat a power 5 team ANY time they toss it up.

The one-and-done culture is the best thing to ever happen to Wichita State or Butler. If Duke and UNC had kids staying all 4 years, these mid-major schools that are succeeding would never stand a chance. Butler would never make back to back championship games and WSU would never be a one seed.

It's also why teams like Michigan State seem to always contend in March... They are better than most of the elite programs at attracting 4-star talent that will decide to stay in college for 3+ years.
 

ND NYC

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count every kid who enters as a freshman for the next four years on the scholly count.
 
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