'12 AL QB Jameis Winston (FSU Verbal)

IrishSteelhead

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'12 AL QB Jameis Winston (FSU Verbal)

Title2114 said:
He's definitely out of the Heisman race. There's no question there.
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He was already out IMO. He won by default last year, and I don't think many people were comfortable voting for him.
 
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koonja

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This game will be tough to watch cause I want to root against FSU but that's not smart for ND.
 
wizards8507

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koonja said:
This game will be tough to watch cause I want to root against FSU but that's not smart for ND.
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I'm not sure about that. A win at FSU will still be impressive, even if we're not the only team to beat them. A one or two loss ACC champion is probably more important to our playoff chances than whether we face #1 FSU or #13 FSU. I think chaos at the top of the polls benefits us more than one loss against our strength of schedule.
 
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scUM Hater said:
He should also be dropped from any Heisman consideration
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wizards8507 said:
I'm not sure about that. A win at FSU will still be impressive, even if we're not the only team to beat them. A one or two loss ACC champion is probably more important to our playoff chances than whether we face #1 FSU or #13 FSU. I think chaos at the top of the polls benefits us more than one loss against our strength of schedule.
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Well it'll still be impressive, but at face value, do you want to win/lose to the #1 team or the #8 team? I'll be rooting for FSU.
 
IrishSteelhead

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'12 AL QB Jameis Winston (FSU Verbal)

koonja said:
Well it'll still be impressive, but at face value, do you want to win/lose to the #1 team or the #8 team? I'll be rooting for FSU.
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FSU is on a list of about 5 teams I will never root for under any circumstance. ND controls their own destiny anyways through the simple logic of "win your effing games." If you need help in the polls, you forgot to help yourself first.

When faced with a scUM vs OSU where both teams are in my reviled 5, I just apply the logic of wanting whoever has more to lose to lose......
 
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koonja

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At least FSU has this going for it:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>"<a href="https://twitter.com/malik_henry16">@malik_henry16</a>: Let's go NOLES✋&#55357;&#56395;✋&#55357;&#56908;" 2016 QB & <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/FSU?src=hash">#FSU</a> target Malik Henry</p>— Warchant.com (@Warchant) <a href="https://twitter.com/Warchant/status/513339141237796864">September 20, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
wizards8507

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koonja said:
Well it'll still be impressive, but at face value, do you want to win/lose to the #1 team or the #8 team? I'll be rooting for FSU.
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Then you're rooting against Notre Dame. We want our opponents to win every game EXCEPT the ones who are themselves candidates for a playoff spot. A playoff contender losing is better for ND than an opponent winning. There's detailed analysis on this.
 
Grahambo

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Winning AT FSU no matter where they are ranked is big time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
irishfan

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I remember last summer I read an article about Jameis saying how hard of a worker that he was, and how he would spend hours every day as a kid with private football and baseball lessons and how his new teammates at FSU loved him.

I thought he was a good guy (in addition to being a stud on the field) and picked him to win the Heisman in our pre-season Heisman thread last year as I thought they would cruise to 13-0 with that schedule and that the media would be all over him as a RS FR.

It's always disappointing to start off with a high opinion of an athlete only to have it slowly ruined by how he acts. Between the trouble with the law and the fact that he sounds like an absolute idiot when he is being interviewed, my opinion of him has gone so far down in one year.
 
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koonja said:
This is my belief.
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You're missing that they play two roles in this thing. They're not just an opponent on our resume. They're ANOTHER team trying to get in the playoff.

When 12-1 FSU is in and 11-1 Notre Dame is out, it won't be any consolation that FSU beat Clemson. It would have been better if they lost so 11-1 Notre Dame is compared to 11-2 FSU.

Think about it this way. Pretend this is the ACC championship game. Notre Dame is 11-1 and on the bubble. FSU is 11-1 also. Do you want FSU to win so our game against them looks slightly better? Of course not. You want them to lose so they drop out of the playoff picture.
 
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koonja

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wizards8507 said:
You're missing that they play two roles in this thing. They're not just an opponent on our resume. They're ANOTHER team trying to get in the playoff.

When 12-1 FSU is in and 11-1 Notre Dame is out, it won't be any consolation that FSU beat Clemson. It would have been better if they lost so 11-1 Notre Dame is compared to 11-2 FSU.

Think about it this way. Pretend this is the ACC championship game. Notre Dame is 11-1 and on the bubble. FSU is 11-1 also. Do you want FSU to win so our game against them looks slightly better? Of course not. You want them to lose so they drop out of the playoff picture.
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I'm not missing anything. If we beat FSU, we're probably going 12-0 because we'd have to be THAT good to do that.

But let's say we have a let down game and end 11-1 in that scenario.

Look at our schedule and key wins vs. FSU's key wins:

ND Wins in order of importance: FSU, Stanford, ASU, USC, Michigan, UNC (take out one).
FSU Wins in order of importance: Clemson, Florida, V-Tech.

Not to mention the fact that we would have beaten them head to head. There'd be no argument for a 1 loss FSU team to play in over a 1 loss ND team, IMO.

I'll voluntarily leave the site if a 1-loss ND team gets left out in favor of a 1 loss FSU team, assuming that loss is to ND. It ain't happenin'. GO FSU!
 
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wizards8507 said:
You're missing that they play two roles in this thing. They're not just an opponent on our resume. They're ANOTHER team trying to get in the playoff.

When 12-1 FSU is in and 11-1 Notre Dame is out, it won't be any consolation that FSU beat Clemson. It would have been better if they lost so 11-1 Notre Dame is compared to 11-2 FSU.

Think about it this way. Pretend this is the ACC championship game. Notre Dame is 11-1 and on the bubble. FSU is 11-1 also. Do you want FSU to win so our game against them looks slightly better? Of course not. You want them to lose so they drop out of the playoff picture.
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If we have the same amount of losses as FSU, its going to come down to head-to-head IMO.

They're not going to pick a 12-1 FSU over an 11-1 ND if we beat them on the road. Likewise, they're not going to pick an 11-1 ND over a 11-1 or 12-1 FSU if they have beaten us head-to-head. It just wouldn't make sense. We'd have the SOS argument, but they'd have the head-to-head one which trumps it IMO.

I don't know what the benefit of rooting against FSU is (unless of course you're really anti-FSU), as it doesn't benefit us in the slightest. We want to be playing the highest ranked FSU team as possible.

Literally the only way an FSU loss would help us tonight is if we lose to FSU and finish 11-1, while they go 10-2 or 11-2. If we're going to lose to FSU, I'd rather have them go 13-0 than have 2 losses. Their schedule really doesn't show 2 losses either (this is assuming they beat us).
 
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koonja said:
I'm not missing anything. If we beat FSU, we're probably going 12-0 because we'd have to be THAT good to do that.

But let's say we have a let down game and end 11-1 in that scenario.

Look at our schedule and key wins vs. FSU's key wins:

ND Wins in order of importance: FSU, Stanford, ASU, USC, Michigan, UNC (take out one).
FSU Wins in order of importance: Clemson, Florida, V-Tech.

Not to mention the fact that we would have beaten them head to head. There'd be no argument for a 1 loss FSU team to play in over a 1 loss ND team, IMO.

I'll voluntarily leave the site if a 1-loss ND team gets left out in favor of a 1 loss FSU team, assuming that loss is to ND. It ain't happenin'. GO FSU!
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You're making my point. If FSU loses a few games, there's no tie to break so head to head is irrelevant. It's better for them to COMPLETELY eliminate themselves from contention than to stay in contention and just make us look good by comparison.

Strength of schedule and head to head are tie breakers among a list of contenders. It's better for that list to just be as short as possible so we don't have any ties to break.
 
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irishfan said:
If we have the same amount of losses as FSU, its going to come down to head-to-head IMO.
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If FLorida State ends the season 12-1, with their only loss being to Notre Dame, and they win the ACC Championship Game?

They will be in front of ND for the playoffs.
 
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koonja

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wizards8507 said:
You're making my point. If FSU loses a few games, there's no tie to break so head to head is irrelevant. It's better for them to COMPLETELY eliminate themselves from contention than to stay in contention and just make us look good by comparison.

Strength of schedule and head to head are tie breakers among a list of contenders. It's better for that list to just be as short as possible so we don't have any ties to break.
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I thought your point was that you want FSU to lose every game possible because that simply means we will not have to worry about them being one more team to end up ahead of: "They're ANOTHER team trying to get in the playoff."

I obviously don't think that'd be an issue. If your point runs deeper than FSU simply being one more team that would beat ND out of the playoff game, I do not get it and you're smart, I'm dumb, you're good looking, I'm unattractive, you're right, I am wrong :).
 
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koonja

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kmoose said:
If FLorida State ends the season 12-1, with their only loss being to Notre Dame, and they win the ACC Championship Game?

They will be in front of ND for the playoffs.
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I'll bet you every vbuck I have and leave the site to your ONE vbuck that this you're wrong if ND and FSU both end with one loss and ND beats FSU.

That's like 800,000,000 to 1 odds + me leaving the site. Deal? You'd be a hero on this site if you got me kicked.
 
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irishfan

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kmoose said:
If FLorida State ends the season 12-1, with their only loss being to Notre Dame, and they win the ACC Championship Game?

They will be in front of ND for the playoffs.
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Gonna have to agree to disagree here.

If we go 11-1, we will have beaten FSU plus some combo of 2/3 of Stanford/ASU/USC. Their best 3 wins would be against OK State/Clemson/Florida and then whatever average team comes out of the ACC Coastal.

After that their wins go Miami/Louisville/Virginia. We'd have Michigan, UNC, Louisville.

The SOS would be pretty close. But our head-to-head on the road would put us over the top IMO.

I honestly don't think FSU>ND would even be a seriously debated issue in this scenario by the committee or by the media.
 
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