The Road to the Playoff

[cody1smith]

Im not sold on the sec deal either.

Who is the best team in the sec? A&M?
Compared to the big 12 and the pac 12

Texas A&M-----Oklahoma------Oregon
LSU--------------Baylor-----------USC
South Carolina-Kstate-----------Standford
Alabama--------oakState--------UCLA

Does A&M wax OK and Oregon?
South car gonna beat Stanford? Or usc for that matter?
I dont think LSU beats any one listed above. Wisconsin is not good and time will show that as they lose to a bunch of garbage in the B1G.

Usc sucked balls against BC but i truly believe that USC on certain days is on of the best teams in college football.

If we could just get teams to stop scheduling Sam Houston State and shit like that all of the questions about who is better would be far easier to answer. Speaking of Sam Houston State. does Sam Houston have a college? Or is that just one guy? I'm surprised the sec has not scheduled him.

 

[T Town Tommy]

Im not sold on the sec deal either.

Who is the best team in the sec? A&M?
Compared to the big 12 and the pac 12

Texas A&M-----Oklahoma------Oregon
LSU--------------Baylor-----------USC
South Carolina-Kstate-----------Standford
Alabama--------oakState--------UCLA

Does A&M wax OK and Oregon?
South car gonna beat Stanford? Or usc for that matter?
I dont think LSU beats any one listed above. Wisconsin is not good and time will show that as they lose to a bunch of garbage in the B1G.

Usc sucked balls against BC but i truly believe that USC on certain days is on of the best teams in college football.

If we could just get teams to stop scheduling Sam Houston State and shit like that all of the questions about who is better would be far easier to answer. Speaking of Sam Houston State. does Sam Houston have a college? Or is that just one guy? I'm surprised the sec has not scheduled him.

You lost me with USC being one of the best teams in the country... on any day.

The SEC will take care of itself through cannibalization. Do you really think any non-SEC team you mentioned would run through the SEC? I can answer that... no.

I would put up 4-5 teams in the SEC against any team in the country on any day and like my chances. What other conference can say that? Again, I can answer that... none.

 

[clashmore_jon]

You lost me with USC being one of the best teams in the country... on any day.

The SEC will take care of itself through cannibalization. Do you really think any non-SEC team you mentioned would run through the SEC? I can answer that... no.

I would put up 4-5 teams in the SEC against any team in the country on any day and like my chances. What other conference can say that? Again, I can answer that... none.

IA Independents.

 

[greyhammer90]

You lost me with USC being one of the best teams in the country... on any day.

The SEC will take care of itself through cannibalization. Do you really think any non-SEC team you mentioned would run through the SEC? I can answer that... no.

I would put up 4-5 teams in the SEC against any team in the country on any day and like my chances. What other conference can say that? Again, I can answer that... none.

I'd say 3 teams max from the SEC this year could realistically win another conference (not named the B1G). A&M has no defense, and South Carolina has shown that they'll get shredded by a good spread offense. Georgia looks good but terrible coaching. All in all, it's the same old sh*t. Alabama and LSU could likely beat any team in the country, but it drops off rapidly after that. Too bad they can't sink too far considering they only play each other. Some lucky West team gets to say they beat a top 10 team when they demolish Ole Miss lol.

 

[T Town Tommy]

I'd say 3 teams max from the SEC this year could realistically win another conference (not named the B1G). A&M has no defense, and South Carolina has shown that they'll get shredded by a good spread offense. Georgia looks good but terrible coaching. All in all, it's the same old sh*t. Alabama and LSU could likely beat any team in the country, but it drops off rapidly after that. Too bad they can't sink too far considering they only play each other. Some lucky West team gets to say they beat a top 10 team when they demolish Ole Miss lol.

Yeah... ok.

It's the fourth week of the season. Too much football to be played to determine what's actually going to happen.

These off weeks sure gets the Irish faithful restless. Geez.

 

[Rhode Irish]

I am a reformed SEC-hater. I used to be in the same camp as you guys in thinking the SEC's superiority was a myth they created themselves and reinforced by only playing each other, but I think at this point it is clear that that part of the country produces the best players. The program that has accumulated the best talent at any given time may change a bit year-to-year, but I don't know what you've been watching for the last decade if you don't think that conference is head and shoulders above the rest of the conferences. In any given game, a SEC team might lose to a non-SEC team, but overall there is no debate about it being the best conference.

I also think its funny that I've seen a few people say the only SEC team they are buying is A&M. How did you arrive there? I think they will finish fourth in the SEC West, and along with Ole Miss they are a team I'm not buying. But if you are buying....based on what? They beat South Carolina, who beat Georgia? Doesn't that fly in the face of what you were just saying about these teams beating up on each other not proving anything to you?


Anyways, I just popped in here about the FSU/Winston news. I think it would be very bad for Notre Dame if FSU were to lose to Clemson this weekend. Something we should all be watching out for.

 

[MPClinton22]

You lost me with USC being one of the best teams in the country... on any day.

The SEC will take care of itself through cannibalization. Do you really think any non-SEC team you mentioned would run through the SEC? I can answer that... no.

I would put up 4-5 teams in the SEC against any team in the country on any day and like my chances. What other conference can say that? Again, I can answer that... none.

I would say the Pac 12 would have a good chance. USC certainly got beat up pretty bad this past weekend, but when they play like they are capable of they could beat anyone. Oregon is in my opinion the best team in the country right now. ASU are no slackers, and obviously Stanford shot themselves in the foot against USC but in reality dominated that game. I would have included UCLA in that group to start the year, but they've played pretty horribly thus far.

I would also say the Big 12 would stand a good shot against most teams, although many are unproven commodities at this point. But I think Oklahoma, KState, Oklahoma State, and Baylor would all stand a good chance against most teams.

I don't think you're going to be able to evangelize us to the wonder and power of the SEC. Yes, it is a fantastic conference. But it also has crap teams and has such a crazy built in advantage that the belief that they are unbeatable just continues.

EDIT - This conversation really isn't worth continuing, because clearly people have very strong opinions about the SEC that won't change. And as you recently said, none of it really matters. Lots of football to play and that's all that counts.

 

[greyhammer90]

It's the fourth week of the season. Too much football to be played to determine what's actually going to happen.

Notwithstanding your troll bait, this was basically your response.

Do you seriously think A&M could win a major conference with that defense? And do you seriously think South Carolina's defense would do well in the Pac 12 or Big 12?

 

[greyhammer90]

overall there is no debate about it being the best conference.

I'm not making that argument at all. The SEC is unquestionably the best conference. But Tommy is sucking the ESPN fumes a little hard.

 

[Rhode Irish]

I haven't read everything Tommy has said super-closely, but I would expect him to defend the SEC as vehemently as we would defend ND on another board. Anyways, where we do agree is that I don't see A&M as a more than a top-25 team this year. Probably somewhere in that 20-25 range.

 

[Ndaccountant]

I haven't read everything Tommy has said super-closely, but I would expect him to defend the SEC as vehemently as we would defend ND on another board. Anyways, where we do agree is that I don't see A&M as a more than a top-25 team this year. Probably somewhere in that 20-25 range.

That's fair.....but why are they ranked so high then?

Like Grey said, the SEC has the best top tier year in and year out. Those teams change though. One year it's A&M, the next it's Auburn, then it's Carolina. The only teams that have been consistent year in and year out for the past few years has been LSU and Bama.

Why does that matter? B/c teams change so much year to year and most people cast a suspicious eye towards you if you aren't from the SEC. Those teams must prove they belong. Yet, a team like A&M beats Carolina and now they are a top 10 team? I realize that if any conference deserves the benefit of the doubt, it's the SEC. But there is a line and that line was crossed long ago. SEC teams do not regularly leave their comfort zones and there isn't any incentive for them to if everyone treats a league road victory over an unknown quantity like they were the Patriots.

 

[Rhode Irish]

That's fair.....but why are they ranked so high then?

Like Grey said, the SEC has the best top tier year in and year out. Those teams change though. One year it's A&M, the next it's Auburn, then it's Carolina. The only teams that have been consistent year in and year out for the past few years has been LSU and Bama.

Why does that matter? B/c teams change so much year to year and most people cast a suspicious eye towards you if you aren't from the SEC. Those teams must prove they belong. Yet, a team like A&M beats Carolina and now they are a top 10 team? I realize that if any conference deserves the benefit of the doubt, it's the SEC. But there is a line and that line was crossed long ago. SEC teams do not regularly leave their comfort zones and there isn't any incentive for them to if everyone treats a league road victory over an unknown quantity like they were the Patriots.

Well, I do think the voters do give SEC teams a ton of credit for beating one another. So that is why I think they moved up so far. With the gauntlet they'll have to run, they probably will finish the regular season with ~3 losses I'd think.

 

[cody1smith]

You lost me with USC being one of the best teams in the country... on any day.

The SEC will take care of itself through cannibalization. Do you really think any non-SEC team you mentioned would run through the SEC? I can answer that... no.

I would put up 4-5 teams in the SEC against any team in the country on any day and like my chances. What other conference can say that? Again, I can answer that... none.

Talk all you want but you would not bet 100 dollars on 5 teams out of the sec to beat Oregon, Oklahoma,Florida state, michigan state baylor, Ohio state or even notre dame on a neutral playing field if they played 10 times in a row.

 

[Ndaccountant]

Well, I do think the voters do give SEC teams a ton of credit for beating one another. So that is why I think they moved up so far. With the gauntlet they'll have to run, they probably will finish the regular season with ~3 losses I'd think.

That's true, but when a team beat's A&M, we will hear about it and the victor will be vaulted upward. It's self perpetuating and assures SEC teams to be highly ranked. Alabama plays Florida and Ole Miss the next two weeks. I guarantee you we will hear about how "big" those victories are even though Florida is coming off a 3OT game against Kentucky (and fresh off their blockbuster 2013 campaign) and Ole Miss is a good, but not great team.

 

[T Town Tommy]

Im not sold on the sec deal either.

Who is the best team in the sec? A&M?
Compared to the big 12 and the pac 12

Texas A&M-----Oklahoma------Oregon
LSU--------------Baylor-----------USC
South Carolina-Kstate-----------Standford
Alabama--------oakState--------UCLA

Does A&M wax OK and Oregon?
South car gonna beat Stanford? Or usc for that matter?
I dont think LSU beats any one listed above. Wisconsin is not good and time will show that as they lose to a bunch of garbage in the B1G.

Usc sucked balls against BC but i truly believe that USC on certain days is on of the best teams in college football.

If we could just get teams to stop scheduling Sam Houston State and shit like that all of the questions about who is better would be far easier to answer. Speaking of Sam Houston State. does Sam Houston have a college? Or is that just one guy? I'm surprised the sec has not scheduled him.

Here are the facts for conferences playing against each other (Power 5) since 2004:

ACC - 117 games ( don't know their record)
SEC - 111games (69-42)
Pac 12 - 95 games (53-42)
Big 12 - 84 games (42-42)
B1G - 81 games (36-45)

Seems the Pac 12, Big 12, and B1G need to step their games up a little when scheduling Power 5 schools.

 

[tussin]

Here are the facts for conferences playing against each other (Power 5) since 2004:

ACC - 117 games ( don't know their record)
SEC - 111games (69-42)
Pac 12 - 95 games (53-42)
Big 12 - 84 games (42-42)
B1G - 81 games (36-45)

Seems the Pac 12, Big 12, and B1G need to step their games up a little when scheduling Power 5 schools.

...and 30 of those matchups are SEC East regional rivalries like S.Carolina/Clemson, UGA/GTech, FSU/Florida.

 

[T Town Tommy]

...and 30 of those matchups are SEC East regional rivalries like S.Carolina/Clemson, UGA/GTech, FSU/Florida.

But they're still played. Don't see the correlation there.

 

[Rhode Irish]

That's true, but when a team beat's A&M, we will hear about it and the victor will be vaulted upward. It's self perpetuating and assures SEC teams to be highly ranked. Alabama plays Florida and Ole Miss the next two weeks. I guarantee you we will hear about how "big" those victories are even though Florida is coming off a 3OT game against Kentucky (and fresh off their blockbuster 2013 campaign) and Ole Miss is a good, but not great team.

Yeah, on this we agree. But I don't think that means that the SEC doesn't have great teams, it's just that they maybe get too much of the benefit of the doubt.

 

[tussin]

But they're still played. Don't see the correlation there.

You brought up that statistic to suggest that the SEC is somehow proactive in scheduling Power 5 non-conference games. The reality is that statistic is skewed by 3 SEC East regional rivalries and it isn't driven by truly "open" games in the schedule. Most SEC schools still dodge Power 5 games whenever they have the opportunity.

 

[cody1smith]

Here are the facts for conferences playing against each other (Power 5) since 2004:

ACC - 117 games ( don't know their record)
SEC - 111games (69-42)
Pac 12 - 95 games (53-42)
Big 12 - 84 games (42-42)
B1G - 81 games (36-45)

Seems the Pac 12, Big 12, and B1G need to step their games up a little when scheduling Power 5 schools.

Oh no doubt. They for years were far above. Just not near as much now as a few years ago.

 

[Blaise]

The SEC champ can have four losses and will still make the playoff... The world we live in... The myth of the SEC whether true or not still holds a ton of weight to people, and committee won't exclude the champion of the best conference

 

[T Town Tommy]

You brought up that statistic to suggest that the SEC is somehow proactive in scheduling Power 5 non-conference games. The reality is that statistic is skewed by 3 SEC East regional rivalries and it isn't driven by truly "open" games in the schedule. Most SEC schools still dodge Power 5 games whenever they have the opportunity.

Again... the facts speak for themselves. I am sure one would find the other conferences fall fairly close to the same... except, outside the ACC, they haven't played as many games.

So now, we are going to exclude regional rivalries in calculating Power 5 opponents? What do we want to exclude next to bolster our arguments?

 

[IrishLion]

Anyways, I just popped in here about the FSU/Winston news. I think it would be very bad for Notre Dame if FSU were to lose to Clemson this weekend. Something we should all be watching out for.

Maybe not... the committee will select the BEST teams, not the most deserving. So if FSU loses to Clemson, it might not weigh as heavily in the eyes of the playoff committee, since they will be without their QB for a half.

The committee could easily disregard a close FSU loss to Clemson, because of the impact Winston has when he's on the field.

 

[T Town Tommy]

Let's exclude bowl games now. I mean it really is the closest test we have on teams that finish high enough to be in bowl games.

Since 2000:

SEC - +26 win-loss record
Pac 12 - +5 win-loss record
ACC - -5 win-loss record
Big 12 - even win-loss record
B1G - -23 win-loss record

 

[IrishLion]

For everyone's reading pleasure amidst yet another SEC debate:

Total Frat Move | Why The SEC Is Bullshit

This article sums up the argument I've been making for years, and that many of you are making right now.

The "Snake eating its own tail" analogy is perfect.

 

[Ndaccountant]

Here are the facts for conferences playing against each other (Power 5) since 2004:

ACC - 117 games ( don't know their record)
SEC - 111games (69-42)
Pac 12 - 95 games (53-42)
Big 12 - 84 games (42-42)
B1G - 81 games (36-45)

Seems the Pac 12, Big 12, and B1G need to step their games up a little when scheduling Power 5 schools.

Don't disagree, but context is till important.

For example, when was the last time Florida played a non-conference game on the road outside the state of Florida? I believe it was 1989 @ Memphis. Sure, they played a neutral site game here and there, but no real road challenges where they play in an unfamiliar area. I posted a few weeks ago about Bama having something similar where I think it was PSU and Hawaii serving as their only true non-conference road games in the past 15 years or so. Auburn has been respectable as they have played KSU (Thursday), Clemson and WVU on the road in the last ten years or so & LSU has managed to travel to Washington, WVU, VT & ASU. Georgia has been coming along with the Clemson series along with OSU. UT seems to always be the most ambitious on the road like OU, Oregon, ND, etc.

I get that the conference performs well and I don't think anyone argues that. But outside of in-state rivals, the SEC isn't really going on the road in places that aren't familiar on a consistent basis. I sincerely hope this is corrected with the playoffs and it looks like it will be.

 

[Ndaccountant]

Yeah, on this we agree. But I don't think that means that the SEC doesn't have great teams, it's just that they maybe get too much of the benefit of the doubt.

Agree and it's the benefit of the doubt that makes people (or at least me) get SEC fatigue.

 

[T Town Tommy]

Don't disagree, but context is till important.

For example, when was the last time Florida played a non-conference game on the road outside the state of Florida? I believe it was 1989 @ Memphis. Sure, they played a neutral site game here and there, but no real road challenges where they play in an unfamiliar area. I posted a few weeks ago about Bama having something similar where I think it was PSU and Hawaii serving as their only true non-conference road games in the past 15 years or so. Auburn has been respectable as they have played KSU (Thursday), Clemson and WVU on the road in the last ten years or so & LSU has managed to travel to Washington, WVU, VT & ASU. Georgia has been coming along with the Clemson series along with OSU. UT seems to always be the most ambitious on the road like OU, Oregon, ND, etc.

I get that the conference performs well and I don't think anyone argues that. But outside of in-state rivals, the SEC isn't really going on the road in places that aren't familiar. I sincerely hope this is corrected with the playoffs and it looks like it will be.

I am a huge proponent of home and home series for my team. I do not like the Jerry World and Atl games. But it gets back to what is beneficial to your team in recruiting as well as having a huge payday for you. I would love to schedule teams for home and homes, as long as it is beneficial to both teams in recruiting. That's the same reason Barry Alvarez turned down Miss State. His Wisky school isn't getting many players from Miss. I don't think seeing Bama play home and homes with the like of UM, Oregon, OU, etc is beneficial for either school. It would be great to see as a fan but not great for recruiting purposes for any.

 

[Ndaccountant]

I am a huge proponent of home and home series for my team. I do not like the Jerry World and Atl games. But it gets back to what is beneficial to your team in recruiting as well as having a huge payday for you. I would love to schedule teams for home and homes, as long as it is beneficial to both teams in recruiting. That's the same reason Barry Alvarez turned down Miss State. His Wisky school isn't getting many players from Miss. I don't think seeing Bama play home and homes with the like of UM, Oregon, OU, etc is beneficial for either school. It would be great to see as a fan but not great for recruiting purposes for any.

That's fine, but when other teams are playing those road games (like a USC that manages to play at least one true non-conference road game per year) the comparison can get skewed. There is something to be said (at least from a respect standpoint) for traveling across the country to play in a place like Nebraska when nobody on the team has been there or experienced it. It takes you out of your element and it tests in you a way you can't get replicate elsewhere.

 

[ickythump1225]

That's fine, but when other teams are playing those road games (like a USC that manages to play at least one true non-conference road game per year) the comparison can get skewed. There is something to be said (at least from a respect standpoint) for traveling across the country to play in a place like Nebraska when nobody on the team has been there or experienced it. It takes you out of your element and it tests in you a way you can't get replicate elsewhere.

I give USC a ton of credit for actually traveling to Boston College to play the Eagles. That showed more balls than the majority of SEC schools whose only non-conference opponents tend to be FCS powder puffs at home, or traveling all the way to South Carolina to play Clemson. ND will have hit almost every corner of the nation by the end of season yet the average SEC school won't travel much further than 600 miles away from their school.