Afghan POW Freed After Five Years

[T Town Tommy]

You are a few days into a story about a prisoner exchange that no doubt has been in the works for many months and you are -- without any real facts -- suggesting that the president did this to divert attention from the VA scandal. And you are already floating the impeachment balloon and thinking it thru to suggest the liberal media would circle the wagons around any suggestion of ousting the commander in chief. Good Lord, I wouldn't want to see what you would consider one who is for conspiracy theories. In an administration full of invented scandals your "something smells fishy" smells a little fishy. From birth certificates, to associations with radical preachers, to throwing the economy to the lions, to the Affordable Care Act, to Benghazi, all of which were accompanied by discussions of impeachment from the right, your thoughts are right on par with what I expected to hear -- and fully expect to hear for the rest of the Obama presidency. If there is a conspiracy at play here (and I'm not saying there is) it would be easier to believe it was coming from the right of the political spectrum than from the president trying to deflect attention from the VA. The war is winding up in Afghanistan and this was the last POW. What is so suspicious about trying to get him out ahead of the close of the war? Why can't those who disagree with the president ever give him the benefit of the doubt that he is trying to do the right thing? Why must it always be some plot to pull the wool over the eyes of the American public?

While I don't believe there are any conspiracy theories here, and to mention impeachment is a little ridiculous, I don't easily dismiss the claims you mention as "invented" scandals either.

The IRS, NSA, Bengazi, Obamacare, etc all fall under the President's watch. He shoulders the blame - or praise - for the outcome of all of these. To say that any of these are "invented" is as short sghted as claiming the exchange was done to create a smokescreen for the VA issue or impeachment.

This exchange issue will play out in the following days, weeks, and months. Hopefully it works out for all involved. If not, I would fully expect that the President receieve the criticism he would deserve for his decisions.

 

[condoms SUCk]

So you think that in order to deflect attention from one scandal, the POTUS would release 5 POW's in exchange for one American, knowing it would cause a shitstorm?

I'm not big into politics, but that sounds ridiculous lol.

Well, which story are we hearing about more??
The VA scandal is much bigger than just a fake patient list, we're taking about healthcare provided by the government. You don't think horror stories of long waiting list and Vets actually dying waiting on care, in some cases, would cause panic among those in the Democratic establishment. Especially ones that want a single payer system some day? If it were me I would want to change the national conversation ASAP. And what better way then to bring home a POW.
To ab2cmiller's point, I don't think the Administration expected this kind of reaction which is why they don't want to talk about him going AWOL or deserting or how he ended up a POW, the talking points are "we don't not leave anyone behind" which I completely agree with, but I also don't think we should give up 5 extremely dangerous terrorist in doing so.
I mean I could be wrong, but it's Washington and it's and election year so........

Sorry for any grammatical errors, I responded at work from my phone.

 

[GoIrish41]

While I don't believe there are any conspiracy theories here, and to mention impeachment is a little ridiculous, I don't easily dismiss the claims you mention as "invented" scandals either.

The IRS, NSA, Bengazi, Obamacare, etc all fall under the President's watch. He shoulders the blame - or praise - for the outcome of all of these. To say that any of these are "invented" is as short sghted as claiming the exchange was done to create a smokescreen for the VA issue or impeachment.

This exchange issue will play out in the following days, weeks, and months. Hopefully it works out for all involved. If not, I would fully expect that the President receieve the criticism he would deserve for his decisions.

Events happen. The IRS thing was a real thing, the "scandal" of Obama ordering it to do harm to his political opponents was invented. Same with Benghazi. All of the talk about administration's failings and smoke and mirrors after the tragedy was BS, and the string of hearings to keep it in the news through another election cycle is laughably transparent. I'm not suggesting that the events and circumstances did not happen. They certainly did. I'm suggesting the appetite to concoct a scandal out of every event has become a fairly obvious pattern. I don't think it is unreasonable that he should answer about all of these things, which he has done and continues to do, including in the case of this prisoner exchange. But, just because his political opponents don't like his answers does not mean it is a scandal, a word that is tossed about far too often for my taste. I thought I'd never hear a president being threatened with impeachment more than in the Clinton years. I stand corrected. Impeachment used to be the unthinkable last resort of a nation in the throws of a corrupt leader. Today, almost every situation seems to ignite rage and calls for the assembly of right wing mobs with torches and pitchforks to take their country back by any means necessary (except by winning national elections) and to rid the land of the scourge of Obama.

 

[NDohio]

Not likely, but is it possible that this "soldier" was more dangerous being with the Taliban than hanging out in Idaho? Seems we could keep a better eye on him here. Maybe the chatter was getting pretty loud over in Afghanistan about his role with the enemy.

Just spitballing here.

 

[ND NYC]

.

 

[connor_in]

From Mad Magazine

 

[condoms SUCk]

You are a few days into a story about a prisoner exchange that no doubt has been in the works for many months and you are -- without any real facts -- suggesting that the president did this to divert attention from the VA scandal. And you are already floating the impeachment balloon and thinking it thru to suggest the liberal media would circle the wagons around any suggestion of ousting the commander in chief. Good Lord, I wouldn't want to see what you would consider one who is for conspiracy theories. In an administration full of invented scandals your "something smells fishy" smells a little fishy. From birth certificates, to associations with radical preachers, to throwing the economy to the lions, to the Affordable Care Act, to Benghazi, all of which were accompanied by discussions of impeachment from the right, your thoughts are right on par with what I expected to hear -- and fully expect to hear for the rest of the Obama presidency. If there is a conspiracy at play here (and I'm not saying there is) it would be easier to believe it was coming from the right of the political spectrum than from the president trying to deflect attention from the VA. The war is winding up in Afghanistan and this was the last POW. What is so suspicious about trying to get him out ahead of the close of the war? Why can't those who disagree with the president ever give him the benefit of the doubt that he is trying to do the right thing? Why must it always be some plot to pull the wool over the eyes of the American public?

Sorry, I don't believe anything this Administration says, do you remember " If you like your doctor you can keep your doctor" so excuse me if I'm a little hesitant to believe what Obama and his Administration puts out there.
In regarding impeachment, I was referring to the article Connor In had posted, did I ever say he should be impeached, nope I didn't. And your pissed b/c I thought through the political ramifications that would result in such a move?? You're joking right?
Birth Certificate-this was ridiculous and most Americans thought it was a load of BS, he's American
Jeremiah Wright- how long did Obama attend Trinity Church? Oh, around 20 yrs. " God bless America, no no no, God damn America" Jeremiah Wright 2003. Yeah that Church sounds lovely, btw there are many more controversial sermons Wright made, not just that one statement.
Economy sucks b/c he doesn't know what he's doing.
ACA- hey is that website up yet?
IRS- Lois Lerner pleading the 5 TWICE, tells me that there's more to this story than just a few rogue agents in Cincinnati.
Benghazi- have the perpetrators been brought to justice? Why was the You Tube video used as the reason for the attack WEEKS after it was reviewed that the video had nothing to do with it? Why did the US still have ppl there even after the Brits thought it was to dangerous and pulled out? Why did we not send in support to protect our embassy? It's not like this was a quick hit, the embassy was under attack for 7 HRS!! Yeah but 4 Americas are dead, at this point what difference does it make.

I do not hate Obama, I just think he's in over his head and wasn't ready to be POTUS. And as a result our economy has the slowest recovery since the Great Depression, stubbornly hight unemployment, almost 50 million Americans on food stamps, but hey other than that America is doing awesome!!
To my main point, I will concede to you that it may be out there and just plain crazy talk, but hey what's the fun in that

 

[T Town Tommy]

Events happen. The IRS thing was a real thing, the "scandal" of Obama ordering it to do harm to his political opponents was invented. Same with Benghazi. All of the talk about administration's failings and smoke and mirrors after the tragedy was BS, and the string of hearings to keep it in the news through another election cycle is laughably transparent. I'm not suggesting that the events and circumstances did not happen. They certainly did. I'm suggesting the appetite to concoct a scandal out of every event has become a fairly obvious pattern. I don't think it is unreasonable that he should answer about all of these things, which he has done and continues to do, including in the case of this prisoner exchange. But, just because his political opponents don't like his answers does not mean it is a scandal, a word that is tossed about far too often for my taste. I thought I'd never hear a president being threatened with impeachment more than in the Clinton years. I stand corrected. Impeachment used to be the unthinkable last resort of a nation in the throws of a corrupt leader. Today, almost every situation seems to ignite rage and calls for the assembly of right wing mobs with torches and pitchforks to take their country back by any means necessary (except by winning national elections) and to rid the land of the scourge of Obama.

Obama hasn't answered really anything about Bengazi. He has thrown out some dismissal comments, and his Admin team has repeatedly thwarted the congressional investigation by not turning over documents that are contradictory to his explanation on Bengazi. So, why is Bengazi still going on? Pretty simple. When the Administration still hasn't been truthful and forthcoming, even to the point of federal judges having to compel them to cooperate to turn over documents, I can't blame Congress for continuing the investigation. Time for the truth and "transparancy" he talks about all the time.

As far as impeachment, I haven't heard of one member of Congress raise that possibility. The first I read anything about it was on this forum. And to even mention it is a joke IMO.

Pretty simple for me. Bengazi happened and Americans were killed. Can't change that. But we should know the truth about it so things can be put in place to hopefully prevent it in the future. People in the State Department messed up and should be held accoutable for their decisions. And Susan Rice - how stupid can she really be? Takes heat for her Bengazi comments just to follow them up with her comments on the whole prisoner exchange. If anything we do know with pretty reasonable assurance it is the fact that this guy did not serve his country with honor and dignity... he walked away from his unit and was classified a deserter by the Pentegon. Rice needs to stay off Sunday talk shows.

As far as the exchange, like I said... it will play out in the days, weeks, and months ahead. As of now, the Admin made a decision, acted on it, and it appears that most in America believe it was a horrible decision. But again, if this turns out to be what it appears to be at this moment, the President will take heat for it the remainder of his term. Even the liberal media and liberal members of his own party are deserting him on this issue. It doesn't look good for him right now. And no amount of your apologetics can change that.

 

[RDU Irish]

Events happen. The IRS thing was a real thing, the "scandal" of Obama ordering it to do harm to his political opponents was invented. Same with Benghazi. All of the talk about administration's failings and smoke and mirrors after the tragedy was BS, and the string of hearings to keep it in the news through another election cycle is laughably transparent. I'm not suggesting that the events and circumstances did not happen. They certainly did. I'm suggesting the appetite to concoct a scandal out of every event has become a fairly obvious pattern. I don't think it is unreasonable that he should answer about all of these things, which he has done and continues to do, including in the case of this prisoner exchange. But, just because his political opponents don't like his answers does not mean it is a scandal, a word that is tossed about far too often for my taste. I thought I'd never hear a president being threatened with impeachment more than in the Clinton years. I stand corrected. Impeachment used to be the unthinkable last resort of a nation in the throws of a corrupt leader. Today, almost every situation seems to ignite rage and calls for the assembly of right wing mobs with torches and pitchforks to take their country back by any means necessary (except by winning national elections) and to rid the land of the scourge of Obama.

Fair point bolded. This dipsh!t looks more out of control every day. The only reason I oppose impeachment is because I think Biden is an even bigger idiot. I said from the start Biden is nothing but an insurance policy.

 

[GowerND11]

Slightly unrelated, but a teacher at the school I substitute at lost her son on Monday in Afghanistan. It was his second tour.

Local soldier killed in Afghanistan - News - Republican Herald

 

[kmoose]

So you think that in order to deflect attention from one scandal, the POTUS would release 5 POW's in exchange for one American, knowing it would cause a shitstorm?

I'm not big into politics, but that sounds ridiculous lol.

Personally, I think he did it for the votes for the Democratic party. After the VA scandal, Obama (and, by proxy, the Democrats) are seen as not caring about the troops; abandoning them, if you will. So now, in order to prove that he is behind the troops, he makes a rather one-sided prisoner exchange, to bring back an American POW. What better way to counter the perception out there that he does not care about the troops?

He even phrased it as bringing home "the last American POW in Afghanistan". I haven't followed the war all that closely, admittedly, but I don't recall there ever being other American POWs in Afghanistan; but, even if there were, there were not many. So using the phrase "the last American POW in Afghanistan", it makes it sound like Obama(and, by proxy, the Democrats) have brought many home, and are now done with the job. Mission Accomplished, Mr. President!

 

[RDU Irish]

Clinton was impeached for lying about sex with an intern. Seems like lying over American deaths (amongst other things) should be held to at least the same standard.

I mean really, what's worse, lying about wetting your cigar in the oval office or telling the world a video prompted a riot when it is well known we were under attack.

 

[connor_in]

Clinton was impeached for lying about sex with an intern. Seems like lying over American deaths (amongst other things) should be held to at least the same standard.

I mean really, what's worse, lying about wetting your cigar in the oval office or telling the world a video prompted a riot when it is well known we were under attack.

That is what he lied about, but the actual charge associated with this was lying under oath and obstructing justice.

Washingtonpost.com Special Report: Clinton Accused

 

[connor_in]

Personally, I think he did it for the votes for the Democratic party. After the VA scandal, Obama (and, by proxy, the Democrats) are seen as not caring about the troops; abandoning them, if you will. So now, in order to prove that he is behind the troops, he makes a rather one-sided prisoner exchange, to bring back an American POW. What better way to counter the perception out there that he does not care about the troops?

He even phrased it as bringing home "the last American POW in Afghanistan". I haven't followed the war all that closely, admittedly, but I don't recall there ever being other American POWs in Afghanistan; but, even if there were, there were not many. So using the phrase "the last American POW in Afghanistan", it makes it sound like Obama(and, by proxy, the Democrats) have brought many home, and are now done with the job. Mission Accomplished, Mr. President!

Bergdahl Never Listed By Pentagon As Prisoner Of War « CBS DC

 

[GoIrish41]

Personally, I think he did it for the votes for the Democratic party. After the VA scandal, Obama (and, by proxy, the Democrats) are seen as not caring about the troops; abandoning them, if you will. So now, in order to prove that he is behind the troops, he makes a rather one-sided prisoner exchange, to bring back an American POW. What better way to counter the perception out there that he does not care about the troops?

He even phrased it as bringing home "the last American POW in Afghanistan". I haven't followed the war all that closely, admittedly, but I don't recall there ever being other American POWs in Afghanistan; but, even if there were, there were not many. So using the phrase "the last American POW in Afghanistan", it makes it sound like Obama(and, by proxy, the Democrats) have brought many home, and are now done with the job. Mission Accomplished, Mr. President!

I think "Mission Accomplished" is trademarked.

 

[ab2cmiller]

Long article so I can't really quote the whole thing but here are the first two paragraphs from a TIME article
Taliban Release For Bergdahl: Obama Overrode Internal Objections - TIME

White House Overrode Internal Objections to Taliban Prisoner Release

Massimo Calabresi @calabresim

June 3, 2014

Pentagon, Intelligence officials used Top Secret intelligence to prevent previous release of Taliban Five, officials tell TIME

To pull off the prisoner swap of five Taliban leaders for Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl, the White House overrode an existing interagency process charged with debating the transfer of Guantanamo Bay prisoners and dismissed long-standing Pentagon and intelligence community concerns based on Top Secret intelligence about the dangers of releasing the five men, sources familiar with the debate tell TIME.

 

[connor_in]

Events happen. The IRS thing was a real thing, the "scandal" of Obama ordering it to do harm to his political opponents was invented. Same with Benghazi. All of the talk about administration's failings and smoke and mirrors after the tragedy was BS, and the string of hearings to keep it in the news through another election cycle is laughably transparent. I'm not suggesting that the events and circumstances did not happen. They certainly did. I'm suggesting the appetite to concoct a scandal out of every event has become a fairly obvious pattern. I don't think it is unreasonable that he should answer about all of these things, which he has done and continues to do, including in the case of this prisoner exchange. But, just because his political opponents don't like his answers does not mean it is a scandal, a word that is tossed about far too often for my taste. I thought I'd never hear a president being threatened with impeachment more than in the Clinton years. I stand corrected. Impeachment used to be the unthinkable last resort of a nation in the throws of a corrupt leader. Today, almost every situation seems to ignite rage and calls for the assembly of right wing mobs with torches and pitchforks to take their country back by any means necessary (except by winning national elections) and to rid the land of the scourge of Obama.

You seem to have forgotten the left wing...

Efforts to impeach George W. Bush - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


IndictBushNow.org


Efforts to initiate the impeachment of President George W. Bush - OpenCongress Wiki


Joe Biden Wanted Bush Impeached For the Very Thing Obama is About to Do - PolicyMic

Much less all those cries to have Bush put on trial for war crimes in The Hague

 

[GoIrish41]

Clinton was impeached for lying about sex with an intern. Seems like lying over American deaths (amongst other things) should be held to at least the same standard.

I mean really, what's worse, lying about wetting your cigar in the oval office or telling the world a video prompted a riot when it is well known we were under attack.

Is that really what you want to be the standard for impeachment? C'mon, man. Just because there was a previous witch hunt doesn't mean there should be another one.

 

[RDU Irish]

OK, for those who have been in the board room when good ideas go really bad maybe this is pretty simple (think "New Coke" type of backfire).

Aid #1 "Hey, Prez. I was reading this history book about how at the end of wars people trade their prisoners. Why don't we see if we can do a prisoner exchange and jump to the podium saying "This is what we do when wars are over" so we can get back to that old original promise to end the war!"

Aid #2 "AWESOME IDEA, wait, Taliban/Al Qaeda don't take prisoners, they murder everything that gets in their way? How will we ever find a POW?"

a few weeks pass...

Aid #1 "I found one! Remember that deserter who pretty much defected to the Taliban? Maybe we can get him back and call him a POW!"

Everyone else in the room "AWESOME! Let's do it so we can look like we care about our soldiers, empty some Gitmo cells, and look like overall compassionate, caring people! What could go wrong!"

 

[RDU Irish]

Is that really what you want to be the standard for impeachment? C'mon, man. Just because there was a previous witch hunt doesn't mean there should be another one.

I guess my greater point, how do you hold leaders accountable? What is the downside for lying and circumventing the law?

Are you saying "asking questions" is the only backlash needed to hold people accountable? Are you saying directing the IRS to obstruct your opponents is A-OK if you shrug and say "whoops, you caught me!"

Maybe the truth of a "Constitutional Law Professor" as president is that he thinks he can flip the bird to the world, do whatever he wants because he knows the grey area is so huge that building a big enough case for actual repercussions is nearly impossible. In theory (you know, the space professors love to occupy) would the US ever put a president in jail? What is the potential downside to him? Worst case he gets impeached and Tricky Dick and Clinton give precedent enough not to fear that too much, it can all be dismissed as politics anyway!

 

[T Town Tommy]

I guess my greater point, how do you hold leaders accountable? What is the downside for lying and circumventing the law?

Are you saying "asking questions" is the only backlash needed to hold people accountable? Are you saying directing the IRS to obstruct your opponents is A-OK if you shrug and say "whoops, you caught me!"

Maybe the truth of a "Constitutional Law Professor" as president is that he thinks he can flip the bird to the world, do whatever he wants because he knows the grey area is so huge that building a big enough case for actual repercussions is nearly impossible. In theory (you know, the space professors love to occupy) would the US ever put a president in jail? What is the potential downside to him? Worst case he gets impeached and Tricky Dick and Clinton give precedent enough not to fear that too much, it can all be dismissed as politics anyway!

You have to understand where Obama is in relation to his second term. He has no chance to win the House, may or may not keep the Senate, and knows the only way he can move his "agenda" forward is to do things such as this swap. He knows he would have never received Congressional support - even from his own party on it so he went around them on it. So yeah... he is flipping everyone off - including his base of support - because he knows his views, agenda, etc are not the will of most members of Congress or the American people.

He will always have his zeolots who continue to empower him, even after all his political blunders and failed leadership.

 

[GoIrish41]

You seem to have forgotten the left wing...

Efforts to impeach George W. Bush - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


IndictBushNow.org


Efforts to initiate the impeachment of President George W. Bush - OpenCongress Wiki


Joe Biden Wanted Bush Impeached For the Very Thing Obama is About to Do - PolicyMic

Much less all those cries to have Bush put on trial for war crimes in The Hague

It's one thing to talk about it, it is another thing to actually do it. It has been done two times in the nation's history -- both times by right wing republicans and both times for political purposes that did not rise to the level of an impeachable offense, like covering up a burglary and abusing the power of the office or knowingly starting a war under false pretences. Nixon resigned before being impeached over Watergate, and W was never impeached, although he almost certainly could have been. IMHO. Both republican attempts to oust political opponents failed. In fact, the law that they impeached Andrew Johnson on was later declared by the Supreme Court to be Invalid (he removed Edwn Stanton from his cabinet without the consent of Congress, which, at the time, was a violation of the Tenure of Office Act). Clinton capitalized on the public's distaste for the witchhunt to become more popular than he had ever been during his presidency.

 

[connor_in]

Turley: Obama The President That Richard Nixon Always Wanted To Be | Video | RealClearPolitics

JONATHAN TURLEY: Well, I think that the biggest problem we have is that the system itself, if we have a dominant branch, simply begins to shut down in terms of the safeguards. People don't seem to understand that the separation of powers is not about the power of these branches, it's there to protect individual liberty, it's there to protect us from the concentration of power. That's what is occurring here. You know, I've said it before, Barack Obama is really the president Richard Nixon always wanted to be. You know, he's been allowed to act unilaterally in a way that we've fought for decades.

Just saw this at realclearpolitics...

 

[RDU Irish]

So, legal experts of IE, what recourse is there to check the executive if he is out of line?

 

[condoms SUCk]

You seem to have forgotten the left wing...

Efforts to impeach George W. Bush - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


IndictBushNow.org


Efforts to initiate the impeachment of President George W. Bush - OpenCongress Wiki


Joe Biden Wanted Bush Impeached For the Very Thing Obama is About to Do - PolicyMic

Much less all those cries to have Bush put on trial for war crimes in The Hague

1). Yup, both sides have their fair share of crazies, to some on the left I could be given that label as well with my VA theory,
2). If you clear away all the muck you are left with this.
Was the release of one US prisoner worth 5 high level Taliban leaders? I say absolutely not.
You don't want to leave Bergdahl behind, fine I get that, but you can't tell me that this was the only option we had!!!

 

[GoIrish41]

I guess my greater point, how do you hold leaders accountable?

You win elections?

 

[T Town Tommy]

So, legal experts of IE, what recourse is there to check the executive if he is out of line?

It's usually the checks and balances afforded the Judiciary and Legislative Branches. But he has pissed on them too.

For a Constitutional Law guy, Obama doesn't seem to really care about it too much.

 

[T Town Tommy]

You win elections?

See ya in November. At the rate he is going, the Senate will be guaranteed to the Republicans.

 

[RDU Irish]

Why "ask the questions" if the answers are meaningless. If they lie, it is hard to prove and even if proven no recourse. If they tell the truth and fess up to some horrible atrocity, there is no recourse. I wonder which tactic every freaking politician in Washington would take?

 

[condoms SUCk]

So, legal experts of IE, what recourse is there to check the executive if he is out of line?

1). Override a veto with a 2/3 majority
2). Congresses "power of the purse"
3). Lastly Impeachment

*these are options that Congress can utilize.