'13 IL RB Ty Isaac (Michigan Transfer)

[stlnd01]

I bet this will all come down to whether ND's Athletics Compliance Office can verify that USC actually did miss the response deadline. If that can be verified, then we can talk to him safely, and we'll probably land him.

But how would one verify such a thing? It's difficult to prove a negative, and I doubt USC is going to be forthcoming about any missed deadlines. So, if Athletic Compliance can't independently verify the missed deadline, we can't safely speak with Isaac, and taking him at his word that he wants to make a quick decision, that likely knocks us out as an option.

Kelly isn't going to risk illegal contact (like one particularly unethical douche bag in LA) here just for a shot at Isaac.

That's an interesting question. How does this all work?
You'd assume there's paperwork, right? If there's a letter blocking certain schools or whatever, it would have a date on it. Presumably Isaac has a copy? Can he call us? If he does can we pick up the phone? Or does he provide it via a third party?
Other schools have reportedly been calling him. How do they know they're not on the list too?

 

[pkt77242]

I bet this will all come down to whether ND's Athletics Compliance Office can verify that USC actually did miss the response deadline. If that can be verified, then we can talk to him safely, and we'll probably land him.

But how would one verify such a thing? It's difficult to prove a negative, and I doubt USC is going to be forthcoming about any missed deadlines. So, if Athletic Compliance can't independently verify the missed deadline, we can't safely speak with Isaac, and taking him at his word that he wants to make a quick decision, that likely knocks us out as an option.

Kelly isn't going to risk illegal contact (like one particularly unethical douche bag in LA) here just for a shot at Isaac.

Whiskey it was on the previous page but if USC missed the deadline they have to give him permission in writing to talk to whatever teams he wants.

 

[Emcee77]

I bet this will all come down to whether ND's Athletics Compliance Office can verify that USC actually did miss the response deadline. If that can be verified, then we can talk to him safely, and we'll probably land him.

But how would one verify such a thing? It's difficult to prove a negative, and I doubt USC is going to be forthcoming about any missed deadlines. So, if Athletic Compliance can't independently verify the missed deadline, we can't safely speak with Isaac, and taking him at his word that he wants to make a quick decision, that likely knocks us out as an option.

Kelly isn't going to risk illegal contact (like one particularly unethical douche bag in LA) here just for a shot at Isaac.

Hmm, that's a good point. I guess it's possible that USC has just taken no action on Ty's permission requests, which, as you say, might put ND in a bind. Can they take Ty's word that SC didn't get back to him? Maybe not.

Hopefully those aren't the facts, and the situation is that Ty made a proper request in writing, and SC did get back to Ty, but didn't do it in a timely manner. Then Ty will have a dated request and a dated response to show us. I guess we'll see.

 

[koonja]

If USC truly blocks him, I hope it gets some bad publicity. IDK what's going on with his mother, but it can't sound good for them if they prevent this, which is probably why we've let players leave in the past.

With no info, I think this will get sorted out and the kid will be able to go to ND if he wants. Pat Haden and the new USC coach don't need any bad mojo with all of the momentum they have with recruits right now.

If ND's his choice, he'll be here. WHO WANTS A BET!?

 

[Domina Nostra]

And there is a distinction to be made between USC in the Pete Carroll era and USC today, which seems to be trying to clean up its act (Even under Kiffin, who was an idiot, but apparently not a cheater).
All I'm saying is these loophole games cut both ways, and I'm not looking forward to all the self-righteous braying when we're on the losing end.
Ultimately, though, I agree with GK. Getting Isaac would be great, but if there's even a whiff of opposition from USC, it's a lot more likely he winds up elsewhere.

Maybe, but USC did hire frick' Lane Kiffin to replace ol' Petey-- not only did he have a bad rep., but he was there for all the fun. They've gone right back to the same crew again.

My real point, which is not a lot, is that a little "self-righteous" braying is some of the major avantages of being a fan. We are good. They are bad. That kind of thinking is bad in real life; you get that out of your system in here.

Hmm, that's a good point. I guess it's possible that USC has just taken no action on Ty's permission requests, which, as you say, might put ND in a bind. Can they take Ty's word that SC didn't get back to him? Maybe not.

Hopefully those aren't the facts, and the situation is that Ty made a proper request in writing, and SC did get back to Ty, but didn't do it in a timely manner. Then Ty will have a dated request and a dated response to show us. I guess we'll see.

I am sure you could ask the NCAA if USC made its deadlines.

If USC truly blocks him, I hope it gets some bad publicity. IDK what's going on with his mother, but it can't sound good for them if they prevent this, which is probably why we've let players leave in the past.

With no info, I think this will get sorted out and the kid will be able to go to ND if he wants. Pat Haden and the new USC coach don't need any bad mojo with all of the momentum they have with recruits right now.

If ND's his choice, he'll be here. WHO WANTS A BET!?

Agreed.

 

[stlnd01]

You just spit in your hand for nothing. Gross.

While typing on your computer. Double gross.

 

[Emcee77]

Whiskey it was on the previous page but if USC missed the deadline they have to give him permission in writing to talk to whatever teams he wants.

Well, Whiskey's point is, what assurance do we have that they really missed the deadline? What if we take Ty's word for it, and then USC produces a letter, dated within the 7 day response period, denying permission to contact ND, which Ty maybe lost or didn't receive because his postman lost it? We would be in NCAA trouble. We may want to see some proof that SC missed the deadline, and if SC failed to respond to Ty's request to contact us at all, there would be no such proof.

 

[GoIrish41]

Well, Whiskey's point is, what assurance do we have that they really missed the deadline? What if we take Ty's word for it, and then USC produces a letter, dated within the 7 day response period, denying permission to contact ND, which Ty maybe lost or Ty's postman lost? We may want to see some proof that SC missed the deadline.

I'd assume that Ty already has some sort of letter in his possession. Unless USC didn't produce a response at all. It really doesn't matter when the letter is dated, but when it actually made it to Ty. That will be the hardest thing to prove, unless the letter had to be signed for (which wouldn't surprise me) -- in which case it should not be hard to prove at all. If it didn't, it's he said, she said. I'm sure ND will quickly look into this if there is, in fact, mutualy interest.

 

[Irishman77]

Here is my conspiracy theory:

Maybe when ty contacted us months ago....we told him USC will block you from coming here unless you secretly request transfer and be quiet. They have 7 days..if they screw up, we would love to have you.

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

I'd assume that Ty already has some sort of letter in his possession. Unless USC didn't produce a response at all. It really doesn't matter when the letter is dated, but when it actually made it to Ty. That will be the hardest thing to prove, unless the letter had to be signed for (which wouldn't surprise me) -- in which case it should not be hard to prove at all. If it didn't, it's he said, she said. I'm sure ND will quickly look into this if there is, in fact, mutualy interest.

Yeah, he appears to have said USC may have missed the deadline so some sort of communication took place.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

That's an interesting question. How does this all work?
You'd assume there's paperwork, right? If there's a letter blocking certain schools or whatever, it would have a date on it. Presumably Isaac has a copy?

If the Trojans are serious about blocking us, they could produce a back-dated letter even if they missed the deadline. Then it's just Ty's word against USC's. I doubt we'd risk a major violation on those grounds.

Other schools have reportedly been calling him. How do they know they're not on the list too?

Good question. But if USC isn't on a school's future schedule, one can probably safely assume that USC has no reason to block it.

Whiskey it was on the previous page but if USC missed the deadline they have to give him permission in writing to talk to whatever teams he wants.

But will they admit to having missed the deadline? Was this all accomplished via email (which would produce a fairly obvious trail) or via paper correspondence? I can easily imagine a couple scenarios where USC actually misses the deadline but is able to make it look like they didn't. I'd bet whoever missed the deadline at USC has a pretty powerful incentive to cover their own ass.

Hmm, that's a good point. I guess it's possible that USC has just taken no action on Ty's permission requests, which, as you say, might put ND in a bind. Can they take Ty's word that SC didn't get back to him? Maybe not.

Exactly. If this comes down to Ty's word against USC's, I don't see us sticking our neck out for a shot at him.

Hopefully those aren't the facts, and the situation is that Ty made a proper request in writing, and SC did get back to Ty, but didn't do it in a timely manner. Then Ty will have a dated request and a dated response to show us. I guess we'll see.

That dated response is crucial. If Ty doesn't have one, then we'll just have to take his word that USC never responded. I doubt we'd be willing to do that.

Yeah, he appears to have said USC may have missed the deadline so some sort of communication took place.

"[M]issed the deadline" could also mean they simply never got back to him.

 

[koonja]

If the Trojans are serious about blocking us, they could produce a back-dated letter even if they missed the deadline. Then it's just Ty's word against USC's. I doubt we'd risk a major violation on those grounds.


Good question. But if USC isn't on a school's future schedule, one can probably safely assume that USC has no reason to block it.



But will they admit to having missed the deadline? Was this all accomplished via email (which would produce a fairly obvious trail) or via paper correspondence? I can easily imagine a couple scenarios where USC actually misses the deadline but is able to make it look like they didn't. I'd bet whoever missed the deadline at USC has a pretty powerful incentive to cover their own ass.



Exactly. If this comes down to Ty's word against USC's, I don't see us sticking our neck out for a shot at him.



That dated response is crucial. If Ty doesn't have one, then we'll just have to take his word that USC never responded. I doubt we'd be willing to do that.



"[M]issed the deadline" could also mean they simply never got back to him.

Do you really believe Pat Haden thinks it's worth doing something so shady and possibly looking really, really bad just to prevent one player from going to ND?

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Do you really believe Pat Haden thinks it's worth doing something so shady and possibly looking really, really bad just to prevent one player from going to ND?

Probably not Haden. But whichever USC Office of Athletic Compliance employee blew the deadline might risk it to save his job.

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

I don't think he's implying a conspiracy, just that a low level guy whose head would roll might be motivated to act on his own impetus.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Discovery issues and Notre Dame recruiting. It's like Christmas for IE's many attorneys.

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

Now it's time for the Best Evidence Rule!

 

[IrishLion]

I'm just happy to have transfer rumors back on the menu. It's not an ND offseason without high drama to get us through the slow months.

 

[magogian]

Discovery issues and Notre Dame recruiting. It's like Christmas for IE's many attorneys.

Attorneys dislike, if not hate, discovery issues.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Attorneys dislike, if not hate, discovery issues.

Discovery disputes are definitely unpleasant. Discovery issues are a basic part of pre-litigation analysis.

 

[stlnd01]

Probably not Haden. But whichever USC Office of Athletic Compliance employee blew the deadline might risk it to save his job.

Also, Isaac seems to want to make a quick decision so he can get back to playing football (don't blame him at all for that). Unless he's dead set on Notre Dame, all USC really needs to do is make this a little difficult. Drag it out awhile and he'll probably just go elsewhere.

 

[Emcee77]

Attorneys dislike, if not hate, discovery issues.

Not if we can charge for it. My rate to draft the inevitable motion to compel is 1,000,000 vbucks/hr. Discount if you can fill my month with 200 billable hours. #countit

 

[PANDFAN]

If the Trojans are serious about blocking us, they could produce a back-dated letter even if they missed the deadline. Then it's just Ty's word against USC's. I doubt we'd risk a major violation on those grounds.



Good question. But if USC isn't on a school's future schedule, one can probably safely assume that USC has no reason to block it.



But will they admit to having missed the deadline? Was this all accomplished via email (which would produce a fairly obvious trail) or via paper correspondence? I can easily imagine a couple scenarios where USC actually misses the deadline but is able to make it look like they didn't. I'd bet whoever missed the deadline at USC has a pretty powerful incentive to cover their own ass.



Exactly. If this comes down to Ty's word against USC's, I don't see us sticking our neck out for a shot at him.



That dated response is crucial. If Ty doesn't have one, then we'll just have to take his word that USC never responded. I doubt we'd be willing to do that.



"[M]issed the deadline" could also mean they simply never got back to him.

i would assume it would have to be a certified letter...so they wouldn't be able to do this.

 

[Emcee77]

Also, Isaac seems to want to make a quick decision so he can get back to playing football (don't blame him at all for that). Unless he's dead set on Notre Dame, all USC really needs to do is make this a little difficult. Drag it out awhile and he'll probably just go elsewhere.

Exactly. I have no doubt that if SC missed the deadline, that fact will eventually come to light; the question is just whether it comes to light before Ty decides to say the hell with it and just go to Illinois or Northwestern or somewhere else.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

i would assume it would have to be a certified letter...so they wouldn't be able to do this.

That would make sense, but this rule was drafted by the same body that decided to regulate bagel spreads. I'm not counting on the NCAA requiring sensible legal process here.

 

[PANDFAN]

That would make sense, but this rule was drafted by the same body that decided to regulate bagel spreads. I'm not counting on the NCAA requiring sensible legal process here.

<iframe src="https://giphy.com/embed/KxTGUpVH29G8M" width="500" height="286" frameBorder="0" webkitAllowFullScreen mozallowfullscreen allowFullScreen></iframe>

 

[Irish#1]

If Notre Dame feels it is just, fair, and reasonable to prevent a current player from transferring to a program that is an annual opponent, then I think it would violate the spirit of the rule to take a kid who would be blocked from South Bend for the same exact reasons - but for some alleged procedural failure.

USC didn't feel they were violating the spirit of the rules with the "Bush Push".

Fuck Michigan

Fuck USC

 

[koonja]

Still guessing Ty Isaac talks to USC and gets the mythical block dropped and has the ability to go to ND if he wants to.

I think USC will go with 'the customer is always right' on something like this if there's any confusion on whether or not they missed something when they attempted to block certain schools.

 

[Irish#1]

I bet this will all come down to whether ND's Athletics Compliance Office can verify that USC actually did miss the response deadline. If that can be verified, then we can talk to him safely, and we'll probably land him.

But how would one verify such a thing? It's difficult to prove a negative, and I doubt USC is going to be forthcoming about any missed deadlines. So, if Athletic Compliance can't independently verify the missed deadline, we can't safely speak with Isaac, and taking him at his word that he wants to make a quick decision, that likely knocks us out as an option.

Kelly isn't going to risk illegal contact (like one particularly unethical douche bag in LA) here just for a shot at Isaac.

I guess something would have to be delivered and time stamped via a process (i.e. certified letter) showing it did or didn't arrive within the allotted time.

Are you saying he has potential?

No, he's just saying he's Daniel Smith, Theo Riddick and Ben Koyack rolled into one player!

 

[stlnd01]

Still guessing Ty Isaac talks to USC and gets the mythical block dropped and has the ability to go to ND if he wants to.

I think USC will go with 'the customer is always right' on something like this if there's any confusion on whether or not they missed something when they attempted to block certain schools.

The fact that he and his mom have publicly said USC tried to block him to ND is a very savvy move on their part. It puts pressure on Haden to "do the right thing" and let him transfer freely.
I get why schools block kids, but it's never a good look for them and the more publicity it gets, the worse it looks.

 

[Irish#1]

I know he said he wants to get this over quickly, but if he really has his heart set on ND, then he doesn't need to resolve it immediately. He still has to sit out a year.