'11 CA DE/OT Troy Niklas (Signed Notre Dame LOI)

[GoldenToTheGrave]

Wondering what round you guys think Eifert would have gone in the draft had he left a year earlier, like Troy is doing?

from a strictly "business decision standpoint"
the round you pick will tell you all you need to know on whether, from, again, a strictly financial calculation, whether this was the right calculated financial risk for him.

my hunch (know way of knowing) is that niklas will end up going pretty close to where eifert would have went, had he left early too.

have to think that it was the less than expected draft grade that (ironically) and rightly made troy's "people" advise him that he would never be a first rounder, even with that extra year, which had to factor into at least his financial calculations in all this.

above not taking into consideration anything but the financeial piece in all this.

Could have gone in the second round, but definitely not a 1st rounder. 2011 was the Michael Floyd show, Eifert was still playing second fiddle. Niklas hasn't had a year even close to what Eifert did in 2011, let alone 2012.

 

[dublinirish]

There goes the run game! EG better be ready to pass the ball a little bit

 

[CanadalovesND]

My two cents on Niklas' decision:

Ultimately, I think it was a good decision for him to declare. Like what's been discussed before, I don't think him coming back and catching a lot more balls from EG would have done much for his draft stock. He's not the same TE as a Tyler Eifert, and typically, TE's with Tyler's skill set go in the first round now a days. Niklas is not a vertical, stretch-the-field receiver. He is more of a short, intermediate area TE that can pick up first downs when needed and can block the heck out of a defender, something which is slowly fading from TEs in the NFL.

In my opinion, he'll probably be the 4th or 5th TE taken, behind Ebron, Jenkins and Amaro for sure. He'll most likely run a 4.75 and put up some impressive numbers in the bench press for a guy with long arms. He'll be a 3rd to early 4th round draft pick.

 

[GATTACA!]

I definitely prefer this approach, but time will tell.

I'd like to put out a bounty: if anyone that can track down a recruiting class (of 15+) in the last ten years from a team in a BCS conference that every member of the class played out their eligibility at and graduated from that school, I will give that person 500,000,000 vbucks. My guess is that there isn't one.

I did every class between 03 and 06 and no team has done it so far. I might finish some other time, but almost certainly there is no class that graduated together. I believe the closest i got was a WV class that retained something like 16 of 18 through graduation.

Going though all those old classes, wow where they huge. Now there are a couple 30 recruit classes here or there but id guess the average is around 25, early 2000s it seemed to be 29-32 was the norm. Also the 06 ND class was god awful.

 

[SaltyND24]

You are telling me this guy isn't meant for LA? UCLA has a great film program:

The information is that this man is actually the father...

I mean...shit, it's my bat shit crazy theory on the matter

 

[SaltyND24]

For those wondering just exactly what happened on 1/9/2014 (which should forever be a day of silence on IE), I found this good read...pg.7

 

[dublinirish]

Black Thursday lol

 

[ThePiombino]

Who was the last DL recruit we had go first round?
This year we're talking a possibility of two of them.
Niklas leaving basically confirms our reputation as TE U.
It's not like we have scrubs waiting in the wings.
Sure they may not block as well, but we don't know that yet.
All signs point to this being a good thing for the team recruiting going forward.
I just hate what it's going to do for the RZ offense.

Bryant Young?

 

[BleedBlueGold]

My opinion sides w/ LAX in that ND is a school-first institution. Kids commit to ND to get a degree. Remember the "40-year decision?" Well, it's not a 40-year decision w/o the degree. You can't get the degree unless you stay.

Lets face it, the vast majority of these kids have the ultimate goal of one day playing in The League. We can't get too upset over the ones that get to live out that dream (even if it means leaving school early). However, the day ND is ok with multiple underclassmen leaving early (ala Alabama), is the day school first is no more.

It comes down to the type of kid you recruit. Simple as that. Recruit the kids that get ND and value the degree. Those are the ones that will stay (see Stanford). Don't, for any reason, convince a non-ND kid to come to South Bend. It's just asking for trouble (not that Troy has been trouble....just speaking in general terms here).

Best of luck to Troy. But imo, it's a piss-poor decision based on piss-poor advice. Should've stuck around, kid. Would've been a surefire 1st-2nd rounder in the '15 draft....equals a degree from ND AND more cash-money.

 

[drake29]

My opinion sides w/ LAX in that ND is a school-first institution. Kids commit to ND to get a degree. Remember the "40-year decision?" Well, it's not a 40-year decision w/o the degree. You can't get the degree unless you stay.

Lets face it, the vast majority of these kids have the ultimate goal of one day playing in The League. We can't get too upset over the ones that get to live out that dream (even if it means leaving school early). However, the day ND is ok with multiple underclassmen leaving early (ala Alabama), is the day school first is no more.

It comes down to the type of kid you recruit. Simple as that. Recruit the kids that get ND and value the degree. Those are the ones that will stay (see Stanford). Don't, for any reason, convince a non-ND kid to come to South Bend. It's just asking for trouble (not that Troy has been trouble....just speaking in general terms here).

Best of luck to Troy. But imo, it's a piss-poor decision based on piss-poor advice. Should've stuck around, kid. Would've been a surefire 1st-2nd rounder in the '15 draft....equals a degree from ND AND more cash-money.

I think Troy made the best decision for him. I also think ND needs more kids like Troy Niklas. Niklas has plenty of time to return to ND and finish his degree - I'm not sure where it's written that your degree has to be obtained within 4 years. He won't need the ND degree while he's cashing in on his talents in the NFL. It's truly a once in a life time opportunity for him and I don't blame him for going. Factor in his injury history and the fact that ND won't be competing for a national championship next year and I think that's probably why he left. Good for him, he's a great representative for ND.

 

[Cackalacky]

My opinion sides w/ LAX in that ND is a school-first institution. Kids commit to ND to get a degree. Remember the "40-year decision?" Well, it's not a 40-year decision w/o the degree. You can't get the degree unless you stay.

Lets face it, the vast majority of these kids have the ultimate goal of one day playing in The League. We can't get too upset over the ones that get to live out that dream (even if it means leaving school early). However, the day ND is ok with multiple underclassmen leaving early (ala Alabama), is the day school first is no more.

It comes down to the type of kid you recruit. Simple as that. Recruit the kids that get ND and value the degree. Those are the ones that will stay (see Stanford). Don't, for any reason, convince a non-ND kid to come to South Bend. It's just asking for trouble (not that Troy has been trouble....just speaking in general terms here).

Best of luck to Troy. But imo, it's a piss-poor decision based on piss-poor advice. Should've stuck around, kid. Would've been a surefire 1st-2nd rounder in the '15 draft....equals a degree from ND AND more cash-money.

They can come back and get it if they want.

Good luck Troy.

FAAAACK!!!!!!!

So on the bright side maybe we do try and get Schultz??
EDIT: Just saw Lax's post in the Schultz thread

 

[BleedBlueGold]

They can come back and get it if they want.

Good luck Troy.

FAAAACK!!!!!!!

So on the bright side maybe we do try and get Schultz??

You're right, but it's against the odds.

 

[rocket66]

'11 CA DE/OT Troy Niklas (Signed Notre Dame LOI)

Having football first guys is the reason this team is on the upswing and winning more games than it has since Holtz. Sending guys to the NFL early is a clear sign that the program is now beginning to churn out talent.

It's a nice feel-good to talk about the "40 year decision", but I'll take this over the Willingham years where we kept guys 4 years simply because they weren't good enough to declare.

You can't have it both ways, fellas. You just can't. If you want to continue to see ND football compete with the big dogs, than these things are the result of that. It's a good thing.

 

[wizards8507]

Having football first guys is the reason this team is on the upswing and winning more games than it has since Holtz. Sending guys to the NFL early is a clear sign that the program is now beginning to churn out talent.

It's a nice feel-good to talk about the "40 year decision", but I'll take this over the Willingham years where we kept guys 4 years simply because they weren't good enough to declare.

You can't have it both ways, fellas. You just can't. If you want to continue to see ND football compete with the big dogs, than these things are the result of that. It's a good thing.

Stanford.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S III using Tapatalk 4

 

[CanadalovesND]

I think Troy made the best decision for him. I also think ND needs more kids like Troy Niklas. Niklas has plenty of time to return to ND and finish his degree - I'm not sure where it's written that your degree has to be obtained within 4 years. He won't need the ND degree while he's cashing in on his talents in the NFL. It's truly a once in a life time opportunity for him and I don't blame him for going. Factor in his injury history and the fact that ND won't be competing for a national championship next year and I think that's probably why he left. Good for him, he's a great representative for ND.

Niklas has injury history?

 

[IrishLax]

Rhode I remember what you are talking about. We were all pissed after the FSU game and Lax pretty much said "Fuck it lets just take Jucos." In his anger.

Now this is very possible. I've advocated JUCOs before. Is that mutually exclusive with academics-first guys? Probably. Is it mutually exclusive with team-first or good fit guys? I'd say no and point at Kansas State.

I should note that my "don't focus on football first guys" ethos is meant to apply to prep athletes who you have to invest time in developing. Plug and play JUCOs I view as more of a means to an end commodity where you grab them to address an immediate depth need for the upcoming season and anything beyond that is a bonus.

I'm hardly an ideolog with these recruiting philosophies and could definitely have my opinions changed. At the same time, I think the coaches changed their recruiting philosophy after 2012 to move more towards something similar to what I'm describing because of the problems they saw with some '11 and '12 kids. So I think there is some merit to it.

 

[PANDFAN]

Niklas has injury history?

Migraines/concussion

 

[NDohio]

How are you all going to react when Jaylon leaves early? He has been touted as a ND guy through and through by everyone on this board. We all love him and think he is the perfect kind of recruit.

I seriously doubt he makes it to year four. Should we not have recruited him?

Congrats Troy. I hope you kill it at the combine and go to a team that can use your talents.

Could the "information" be about who is trending towards being the new OC and he doesn't use tight ends as much as BK has recently? Just throwing that out there.

 

[IrishLax]

How are you all going to react when Jaylon leaves early? He has been touted as a ND guy through and through by everyone on this board. We all love him and think he is the perfect kind of recruit.

I seriously doubt he makes it to year four. Should we not have recruited him?

Congrats Troy. I hope you kill it at the combine and go to a team that can use your talents.

Could the "information" be about who is trending towards being the new OC and he doesn't use tight ends as much as BK has recently? Just throwing that out there.

Completely different situation and you know that. It'll be similar to the reaction when Tuitt left early, or when Eifert forwent his last year of eligibility, or Nix, etc.

 

[BeauBenken]

Stanford.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S III using Tapatalk 4

Troy was about to go to Stanford. Weird.

 

[IrishLax]

Troy was about to go to Stanford. Weird.

Yeah, but he didn't even have the option though. Was a non-take for them.

 

[dublinirish]

Yeah, but he didn't even have the option though. Was a non-take for them.

he decided between ND and USC I thought? USC wanted him as a Left Tackle too if I remember

 

[NDohio]

Completely different situation and you know that. It'll be similar to the reaction when Tuitt left early, or when Eifert forwent his last year of eligibility, or Nix, etc.

So, it's only OK for a guy to make (what they think is an informed) decision when we agree with it?

There are plenty of people lamenting about any player leaving early. That ND isn't about that. That every player that comes to ND should get their degree before venturing to the NFL. That is crazy, unless there truly is no desire to win a NCG.

Is the argument that Troy is a selfish, football first guy that ND shouldn't have brought in? Or is it that the very informed people of IE think that this is a career mistake?

As to the bolded, that is part of my problem. People are reacting to this Troy news like this is a systematic issue at ND and something needs to be done about it. When Troy makes this decision, it's because BK turns purple and he doesn't recruit the RKG. When Tuitt made his decision it was good for him, ND was a great situation for him, he really grew as a man while here, etc.

Neither one of them leaves with a degree. Why the different reaction?

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Completely different situation and you know that. It'll be similar to the reaction when Tuitt left early, or when Eifert forwent his last year of eligibility, or Nix, etc.

This.

Guys that have great collegiate careers and are 1st round projections usually don't get questioned by a fanbase. Is there disappointment? Sure. But when someone who doesn't project very high leaves early, it's absolutely justifiable to question the decision and be upset by it. It's even worse when that person tells the staff they're returning, only to turn around the next day and declare.

What is that, btw? Does anyone have insight on the "new info" he and his family received?

 

[CanadalovesND]

So, it's only OK for a guy to make (what they think is an informed) decision when we agree with it?

There are plenty of people lamenting about any player leaving early. That ND isn't about that. That every player that comes to ND should get their degree before venturing to the NFL. That is crazy, unless there truly is no desire to win a NCG.

Is the argument that Troy is a selfish, football first guy that ND shouldn't have brought in? Or is it that the very informed people of IE think that this is a career mistake?

As to the bolded, that is part of my problem. People are reacting to this Troy news like this is a systematic issue at ND and something needs to be done about it. When Troy makes this decision, it's because BK turns purple and he doesn't recruit the RKG. When Tuitt made his decision it was good for him, ND was a great situation for him, he really grew as a man while here, etc.

Neither one of them leaves with a degree. Why the different reaction?

It's quite simple: We expected or wouldn't best surprised if they left early due to their high draft stock.

Niklas, for the most part, was a surprise.

 

[Rhode Irish]

Why are people so convinced the "information" was bad for ND, rather than good for Troy? It isn't possible that someone in an NFL front office saw he was staying in school and sent word out that his team wouldn't let Troy get out of the second round? Or something similar? Maybe you would think that isn't reliable and it's a mistake to make a decision based on that, but that is a different argument.

 

[IrishLax]

Why are people so convinced the "information" was bad for ND, rather than good for Troy? It isn't possible that someone in an NFL front office saw he was staying in school and sent word out that his team wouldn't let Troy get out of the second round? Or something similar? Maybe you would think that isn't reliable and it's a mistake to make a decision based on that, but that is a different argument.

That's almost exactly what I think happened, except with an agent. I think someone convinced him he was locked in to the second round and had nothing to gain by coming back. I think he got sold on coming out by someone who wanted to profit.

 

[NDohio]

It's quite simple: We expected or wouldn't best surprised if they left early due to their high draft stock.

Niklas, for the most part, was a surprise.

I get that.

But again, there are people that are complaining about ANY player leaving early. That ND isn't about that, yet they didn't throw this little hissy fit when Tuitt declared. That is what causes me to SMH.

 

[#1rish]

The consensus from the NFL Draft advisory board was Niklas could go as high as the second round, his father said. Whereas Tuitt was projected as a first-round pick and Atkinson was on the outs with Irish coaches, Niklas was expected to be a key contributor in Notre Dame's 2014 offense -- perhaps even more key with DaVaris Daniels missing spring practice due to an academic issue.

In a stunner, Notre Dame's Troy Niklas turns pro | CSN Chicago

I think it's fairly obvious the "information" was his draft projection. Him and his family probably did a lot of research and asked a lot of questions regarding his status.

 

[dublinirish]

In a stunner, Notre Dame's Troy Niklas turns pro | CSN Chicago

I think it's fairly obvious the "information" was his draft projection. Him and his family probably did a lot of research and asked a lot of questions regarding his status.

dont forget they are related to the Matthews family so they would have a bunch of connections in NFL ranks. They know what they are doing. I think when the scouts break down the tape they are gonna see Troy is the true number 1 TE in the draft.