Jameis Winston Decision 2pm

[SoDakDomer]

Doesn't pass smell test to me. Seems like the accuser was never credible, and rather than do the Duke Lacrosse rush-to-arrest they tried to vet the credibility of the accuser. Once it became obvious there was no case and the accuser failed to follow up, they stopped pursuing it. Then when Winston was peaking, they saw an opportunity to make some $$ and started leaking it to different media outlets.

The statements I read all seemed pretty similiar, with the exception of the one talking about being hit over the head or something to that manner in one of the reports?? The bruising that was appearing at the hospital is concerning. But of course her credibility seems a little shakey when compared to the nice polished statements the lawyers had prepared for Darby and that chris guy.

 

[pkt77242]

Doesn't pass smell test to me. Seems like the accuser was never credible, and rather than do the Duke Lacrosse rush-to-arrest they tried to vet the credibility of the accuser. Once it became obvious there was no case and the accuser failed to follow up, they stopped pursuing it. Then when Winston was peaking, they saw an opportunity to make some $$ and started leaking it to different media outlets.

The problem I have with it is it appears that they never investigated it in the first place, you don't investigate the accuser before investigating the accused. It is one thing if they investigated the allegations and then investigated the accuser to make sure everything was in order before charging but it is another thing to investigate the accuser before ever trying to investigate the accused. Also it took them a long time to question Winston and the other two which gave them plenty of time to get a story straight (not saying that they lied but taking that long would give them plenty of time to come up with a story if they needed too).

With attitudes like this police department's it is no wonder that so many rapes go unreported in our country.

 

[IrishLax]

The problem I have with it is it appears that they never investigated it in the first place, you don't investigate the accuser before investigating the accused. It is one thing if they investigated the allegations and then investigated the accuser to make sure everything was in order before charging but it is another thing to investigate the accuser before ever trying to investigate the accused. Also it took them a long time to question Winston and the other two which gave them plenty of time to get a story straight (not saying that they lied but taking that long would give them plenty of time to come up with a story if they needed too).

With attitudes like this police department's it is no wonder that so many rapes go unreported in our country.

I agree that there are a lot of unanswered questions for the Tallahassee Police Department. So I guess in a sense, I do understand where the accuser's attorney is coming from.

On the other hand, I cannot conceive of a rape victim who would report the crime immediately... but then decide not to follow up on it for a whole year when clearly nothing was being done... and then slowly leak it out to different press outlets once he was reaching Heisman front runner status. Maybe I'm just a huge cynic because I followed very closely what happened with Duke lacrosse, and also the Brian Banks tragic tale, but I tend to look at the plausibility/credibility of the accuser with a very cautious eye these days.

 

[phork]

I agree that there are a lot of unanswered questions for the Tallahassee Police Department. So I guess in a sense, I do understand where the accuser's attorney is coming from.

On the other hand, I cannot conceive of a rape victim who would report the crime immediately... but then decide not to follow up on it for a whole year when clearly nothing was being done... and then slowly leak it out to different press outlets once he was reaching Heisman front runner status. Maybe I'm just a huge cynic because I followed very closely what happened with Duke lacrosse, and also the Brian Banks tragic tale, but I tend to look at the plausibility/credibility of the accuser with a very cautious eye these days.

Err the police are supposed to investigate. She isn't supposed to investigate. She did everything she was supposed to. And how do you know that her lawyer wasn't in contact with the police that whole time?

 

[IrishLax]

Err the police are supposed to investigate. She isn't supposed to investigate. She did everything she was supposed to. And how do you know that her lawyer wasn't in contact with the police that whole time?

Because we do, phork. She said she "assumed they were doing what they were supposed to" and that's why she didn't follow up with the police department. For a short period of time, I buy that. For a year?

Bullshit. Are you seriously telling me that if you were the victim of a violent crime and heard NOTHING for a YEAR that you wouldn't call the detective and ask what's up? Or ask for another detective to be assigned? It's not like she waited a couple weeks or even months and then was like "I assumed you were going forward with this, what's going on?" Nope.

She does absolutely nothing... and then starts discretely leaking it to media outlets right when it is least opportune for the accused. Yeah, that makes sense. Don't follow up ever on the case, then start leaking to the media to inquire about a certain case number. Totally seems like the actions of someone who is on the up and up and out for justice.

 

[pkt77242]

Because we do, phork. She said she "assumed they were doing what they were supposed to" and that's why she didn't follow up with the police department. For a short period of time, I buy that. For a year?

Bullshit. Are you seriously telling me that if you were the victim of a violent crime and heard NOTHING for a YEAR that you wouldn't call the detective and ask what's up? Or ask for another detective to be assigned? It's not like she waited a couple weeks or even months and then was like "I assumed you were going forward with this, what's going on?" Nope.

She does absolutely nothing... and then starts discretely leaking it to media outlets right when it is least opportune for the accused. Yeah, that makes sense. Don't follow up ever on the case, then start leaking to the media to inquire about a certain case number. Totally seems like the actions of someone who is on the up and up and out for justice.

Maybe she was following up and they weren't doing anything and so they leaked it to the media to get it moving? There are other ways it could have gone down besides how you are saying. Also may e she felt threatened by the Investigator who warned her about pressing charges?

 

[loomis41973]

Strange that the details were missing from form to form.

 

[IrishInFl]

TPD is a joke. Between this and the Rachel Hoffman case, I don't know how anyone could side with them.

 

[IrishLax]

Maybe she was following up and they weren't doing anything and so they leaked it to the media to get it moving? There are other ways it could have gone down besides how you are saying. Also may e she felt threatened by the Investigator who warned her about pressing charges?

She said flat out that she didn't follow up, and the police department has said she made no inquiries after a certain point early in the case. At least that's what I heard on the radio, and I'll try to find a link.

You read the report... 152 pages on the accuser, 11 pages on Winston... why? Because his story was simple, corroborated, and consistent. 152 pages on the accuser? Because they questioned her credibility. In a he-said, she-said case credibility is the single most paramount aspect of the case.

Lawyer calling for all kinds of independent investigations of the PD so that she can file a lawsuit against them (and maybe Winston, but she says "at this time" they're not looking to do that) and make some $$$$. And you know what? She might totally deserve to win that one against TPD.

But not one person I've talked to with knowledge of this case from start to finish has expressed a single shred of doubt that Winston was completely innocent.

 

[IrishLax]

TPD is a joke. Between this and the Rachel Hoffman case, I don't know how anyone could side with them.

What say you on Winston living down there?

 

[pkt77242]

She said flat out that she didn't follow up, and the police department has said she made no inquiries after a certain point early in the case. At least that's what I heard on the radio, and I'll try to find a link.

You read the report... 152 pages on the accuser, 11 pages on Winston... why? Because his story was simple, corroborated, and consistent. 152 pages on the accuser? Because they questioned her credibility. In a he-said, she-said case credibility is the single most paramount aspect of the case.

Lawyer calling for all kinds of independent investigations of the PD so that she can file a lawsuit against them (and maybe Winston, but she says "at this time" they're not looking to do that) and make some $$$$. And you know what? She might totally deserve to win that one against TPD.

But not one person I've talked to with knowledge of this case from start to finish has expressed a single shred of doubt that Winston was completely innocent.

I am not saying that he is guilty, only two people really know that answer. The police did a shitty job of investigating, it took them way too long to investigate and they appeared to have done a shoddy job. Also the fact that she went and claimed rape that night gives some credibility to her claim, it isn't like she waited till he got famous to press charges. Also the fact that there was 11 pages on him and 152 on her tells me that they were trying to find a reason to discredit her not trying to see if Winston was guilty. The fact is we won't know the truth and the people who are to blame for that are TPD, as my 4 year old could have done a better job of investigating.

 

[loomis41973]

You read the report... 152 pages on the accuser, 11 pages on Winston... why? Because his story was simple, corroborated, and consistent. 152 pages on the accuser? Because they questioned her credibility. In a he-said, she-said case credibility is the single most paramount aspect of the case.

Corroborated by his team members.

Smells like a cover up to me.

 

[ickythump1225]

I am not saying that he is guilty, only two people really know that answer. The police did a shitty job of investigating, it took them way too long to investigate and they appeared to have done a shoddy job. Also the fact that she went and claimed rape that night gives some credibility to her claim, it isn't like she waited till he got famous to press charges. Also the fact that there was 11 pages on him and 152 on her tells me that they were trying to find a reason to discredit her not trying to see if Winston was guilty. The fact is we won't know the truth and the people who are to blame for that are TPD, as my 4 year old could have done a better job of investigating.

^This. I think the TPD was very shady through the whole process. I'll be sick to my stomach if (when) Winston wins the Heisman. The press has already anointed him.

 

[philipm31]

Because we do, phork. She said she "assumed they were doing what they were supposed to" and that's why she didn't follow up with the police department. For a short period of time, I buy that. For a year?

Bullshit. Are you seriously telling me that if you were the victim of a violent crime and heard NOTHING for a YEAR that you wouldn't call the detective and ask what's up? Or ask for another detective to be assigned? It's not like she waited a couple weeks or even months and then was like "I assumed you were going forward with this, what's going on?" Nope.

She does absolutely nothing... and then starts discretely leaking it to media outlets right when it is least opportune for the accused. Yeah, that makes sense. Don't follow up ever on the case, then start leaking to the media to inquire about a certain case number. Totally seems like the actions of someone who is on the up and up and out for justice.

Assuming that she was raped...and she did call it that from day one...then maybe, JUST MAYBE she was suffering a lot of emotional trauma from the incident, as rape victims typically do?

This is not an apples to apple comparison, but would you say that the the Sandusky victims waited too long too? No, because they were victims of a violent crime who ALSO assumed that the local police were doing their jobs.

Just because she supposedly waited too long for your taste does not mean she has credibility issues.

And as somebody else said earlier, maybe her lawyers leaked it to the media BECAUSE the TPD was not doing anything at all to look into the case. If anything, the TPD is totally to blame for the case taking so long to come to the fore, not the victim.

 

[philipm31]

^This. I think the TPD was very shady through the whole process. I'll be sick to my stomach if (when) Winston wins the Heisman. The press has already anointed him.

BINGO.

Charlie Ward deserved the Heisman for his performance on and off the field, while Winston is getting a pass on a rape charge and played against the weakest schedule outside of Columbus, OH.

SMH.

 

[woolybug25]

Yeah. I still can't get over the fact that she went and got a rape kit done the night of the incident. Every witness on Winston's side is a teammate that participated in said "chick swapping" and the police are accused of trying to push it under the rug while following a bizarre path of evidence collection. I find it hard to believe they followed standard protocol.

A lot of smoke. Too much to not have any fire, imo. This isn't like the Duke Lacrosse situation whatsoever.

 

[ickythump1225]

And the Heisman is officially tarnished forever in my mind. I don't give a single fuck about the Heisman anymore. From the shady handling of the rape case, Winston playing against a joke of a schedule, and his acceptance "speech (really Jameis what college classes are you taking?) to me the award is just a huge joke.

 

[wizards8507]

I'm much more familiar with the Seeberg case than this one, but what's the difference? They both seem like he said, she said, maybe something shitty happened but no evidence.

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[DillonHall]

I'm much more familiar with the Seeberg case than this one, but what's the difference? They both seem like he said, she said, maybe something shitty happened but no evidence.

It's basically the same thing, except our player wasn't as readily identified (though I think most people know)

 

[phork]

I'm much more familiar with the Seeberg case than this one, but what's the difference? They both seem like he said, she said, maybe something shitty happened but no evidence.

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And the victim, in this case, is still alive.

 

[Classic Irish]

And the Heisman is officially tarnished forever in my mind. I don't give a single fuck about the Heisman anymore. From the shady handling of the rape case, Winston playing against a joke of a schedule, and his acceptance "speech (really Jameis what college classes are you taking?) to me the award is just a huge joke.

Didn't hear the speech (and frankly not interested in listening to it), but was it that bad? How so? Just curious.

 

[FLDomer]

Didn't hear the speech (and frankly not interested in listening to it), but was it that bad? How so? Just curious.

He mentioned working on his "edication"....

 

[NCND]

And the Heisman is officially tarnished forever in my mind. I don't give a single fuck about the Heisman anymore. From the shady handling of the rape case, Winston playing against a joke of a schedule, and his acceptance "speech (really Jameis what college classes are you taking?) to me the award is just a huge joke.

I knew it wasn't gonna be too long before somebody had a "holier than you" comment about his acceptance speech. He prob was nervous as hell.. give him a break.

 

[ACamp1900]

Look at the last handful of Heisman winners... It hasn't been the same in my mind for a few years at least.

 

[IrishLax]

I'm much more familiar with the Seeberg case than this one, but what's the difference? They both seem like he said, she said, maybe something shitty happened but no evidence.

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Well... lots of differences. One is that the accuser in this case is alive. The second is that Seeberg basically accused the player of touching her breast and kissing her and then stopping of his own volition... and, accordingly, there was no physical evidence to support that because it's darn near impossible to have physical evidence from someone trying to kiss you/touch your breast. In this case Winston was accused of rape and there was physical evidence to suggest he had sex with her. The Seeberg case had evidence that contradicted her whole story (she said they were interrupted by him receiving a phone call and that's why he stopped... he never received a phone call), the Winston case didn't have something like that... but from everything that has been said the accuser did have credibility issues. Both had witnesses that contradicted the timeline/series of events of the accuser, but only the Winston case had supposed actual witnesses of the sex.

The only similarity between the two cases is that they both involve football players, and that in both cases people were not that happy with the alacrity of the police work.

 

[kmoose]

I knew it wasn't gonna be too long before somebody had a "holier than you" comment about his acceptance speech. He prob was nervous as hell.. give him a break.

It's not "holier than thou" to expect a college student to put together 2-3 minutes of communication that actually makes sense, and has some structure to it. But I didn't think it was all that bad. I think it is more a question of his diction, than his intelligence.

But I would like to hear more about him "being out there doing what he was doing", to pay bills, when his dad was out of work.

 

[wizards8507]

Well... lots of differences. One is that the accuser in this case is alive. The second is that Seeberg basically accused the player of touching her breast and kissing her and then stopping of his own volition... and, accordingly, there was no physical evidence to support that because it's darn near impossible to have physical evidence from someone trying to kiss you/touch your breast. In this case Winston was accused of rape and there was physical evidence to suggest he had sex with her. The Seeberg case had evidence that contradicted her whole story (she said they were interrupted by him receiving a phone call and that's why he stopped... he never received a phone call), the Winston case didn't have something like that... but from everything that has been said the accuser did have credibility issues. Both had witnesses that contradicted the timeline/series of events of the accuser, but only the Winston case had supposed actual witnesses of the sex.

The only similarity between the two cases is that they both involve football players, and that in both cases people were not that happy with the alacrity of the police work.

But it seems like the biggest similarity is the only one that matters: lack of evidence. Nobody knows what happened but they seem ready to label this guy a rapist and expect the Heisman voters to do the same.

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[kmoose]

But it seems like the biggest similarity is the only one that matters: lack of evidence. Nobody knows what happened but they seem ready to label this guy a rapist and expect the Heisman voters to do the same.

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Well, maybe people weren't willing to label Shembo a sexual assaultist(there was never any rape accused in the Seeberg case) because the only real evidence that existed was Shembo's phone records, which directly contradicted the story that Seeberg was telling. Meanwhile, there is ample evidence that Winston and his accuser at least had sex, which is in keeping with her allegation of rape, not in direct contradiction to it. So the only REAL similarity is that two football players were accused of sexual crimes. That's where the similarity ends.

 

[wizards8507]

Well, maybe people weren't willing to label Shembo a sexual assaultist(there was never any rape accused in the Seeberg case) because the only real evidence that existed was Shembo's phone records, which directly contradicted the story that Seeberg was telling. Meanwhile, there is ample evidence that Winston and his accuser at least had sex, which is in keeping with her allegation of rape, not in direct contradiction to it. So the only REAL similarity is that two football players were accused of sexual crimes. That's where the similarity ends.

I'm not arguing the Seeberg case, I'm arguing the Winston case.

Sex isn't rape. Unless I missed something, there's as much "evidence" that we all raped our wives as there is that JW raped this girl. I need a little more than "evidence of sex" to label someone "rapist."

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[TheChosen1]

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