ND Oversold on Kelly?

[dre1919]

Whether or not Kelly is the "right" coach for the job is kind of irrelevant. He's the best we can get right now because of the limitations that come with the job. It's why the elite coaches won't come here even if they love it (Meyer, for example). They know it's career suicide or at the very least a couple of lost seasons until a big name university, without scruples and spotlights on them, rescues them. Instead of firing BK, the staff need to get off their asses and figure out who will be playing in the future and get them ready. Rees needs to go just on principle, but especially since we might as well start getting other QB's reps.

 

[NDohio]

Whether or not Kelly is the "right" coach for the job is kind of irrelevant. He's the best we can get right now because of the limitations that come with the job. It's why the elite coaches won't come here even if they love it (Meyer, for example). They know it's career suicide or at the very least a couple of lost seasons until a big name university, without scruples and spotlights on them, rescues them. Instead of firing BK, the staff need to get off their asses and figure out who will be playing in the future and get them ready. Rees needs to go just on principle, but especially since we might as well start getting other QB's reps.

Hendrix is just not very good and Zaire needs to keep his redshirt.

So you want Luke Massa to start the next two games?

 

[anarin]

I shoud've used italics...

I didn't say 'fire him"...I"m just making the point that he's not this supreme coaching god liek some on here believe when anyone questions him.

Every coach has their downfalls, and I would even say that saban has his downfalls. It's alot easier to win games when you get far superior talent than 99% of college football. He wasn't so hot when he was coaching in the NFL with a level playing field, but thats neither here nor there.

We all have our view on the gameplan that the coaching staff has week to week. I'll even say that I've questioned some of the calls in each game. But this doom and gloom from some of you guys is getting old. All I see is the negative side of whats going on and the argumentative stats the supposedly backs up your claim. You sure as hell can get on here and bitch about whats wrong, but you offer no real substance to any sort of solution. We get it! You're upset with the way things are, you (regulars, you know who you are) and the guys that only show up on this board when the team loses post plenty of the same "tears on the keyboard" ****.

So I challenge every person "that think this program is in such shambles" to come up with even an inkling of a solution. It's really not that hard is it? I mean you have such a strong opinion on how bad it is. I would LOVE to see how you would fix this dire situation.

 

[irishpat183]

Can anyone?

[ Insert clichéd "Saban" response here. ]

Saban

LOL.


I'd say if we "tweeked" our admissions a tad, that'd be the start.

 

[IrishInFl]

This should have been the coach's half-time speech.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/9f3waZ9GYgM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Pachuco]

Whether or not Kelly is the "right" coach for the job is kind of irrelevant. He's the best we can get right now because of the limitations that come with the job. It's why the elite coaches won't come here even if they love it (Meyer, for example). They know it's career suicide or at the very least a couple of lost seasons until a big name university, without scruples and spotlights on them, rescues them. Instead of firing BK, the staff need to get off their asses and figure out who will be playing in the future and get them ready. Rees needs to go just on principle, but especially since we might as well start getting other QB's reps.

I just think that in this day and age, it's extremely difficult to have it both ways and demand yearly consistency (as in title contention). It doesn't seem like the NCAA will be standing up anytime soon to address the disparity of what is and isn't allowed at each institution. Oversigning and JUCO transferring are huge advantages for a program. Add in varying responsibilities for the student aspect of an athlete's life, and we are looking at an unequal playing field. It's not impossible to win with your nose clean, but it's extraordinarily difficult.

So, I guess I would ask, what concessions should we demand knowing that we value other important aspects of Notre Dame as a University beyond championship notoriety? I realize, this is not necessarily a major concern for every fan, but for some of us, it is as important as winning, or rather, part of winning.

And like it or not, it is a responsibility of the head coach to address these facets along with winning.

 

[CarrollVermin]

I've never said fire Kelly on this thread. I think some changes would be warranted on the staff, or perhaps in preparation and approach. But outside of Meyer, Saban, Harbough, or Shaw, there aren't too many other viable options. And frankly, I don't think Meyer or Saban would succeed at ND.

 

[kmoose]

So, I guess I would ask, what concessions should we demand knowing that we value other important aspects of Notre Dame as a University beyond championship notoriety?

Holtz got a couple of guys in, who would not have otherwise been even considered for admission, in Tony Rice and Chris Zorich. But the only reason that Holtz was able to get them in, was that he vouched that they would be successful, academically, at ND. Rice had to sit out his freshman year, and prove to the administration that he could handle the academic load. I think that "concessions" like this could go a long way to making ND a consistent contender again. But anyone that the University lets in HAS to perform in the classroom, and off the field, the same as would be expected of any other student.

 

[irishpat183]

Holtz got a couple of guys in, who would not have otherwise been even considered for admission, in Tony Rice and Chris Zorich. But the only reason that Holtz was able to get them in, was that he vouched that they would be successful, academically, at ND. Rice had to sit out his freshman year, and prove to the administration that he could handle the academic load. I think that "concessions" like this could go a long way to making ND a consistent contender again. But anyone that the University lets in HAS to perform in the classroom, and off the field, the same as would be expected of any other student.

LOL...there were more than just "a couple"...


And why not do the same?? Have special tutors, give these guys a chance.

 

[Wild Bill]

Holtz got a couple of guys in, who would not have otherwise been even considered for admission, in Tony Rice and Chris Zorich. But the only reason that Holtz was able to get them in, was that he vouched that they would be successful, academically, at ND. Rice had to sit out his freshman year, and prove to the administration that he could handle the academic load. I think that "concessions" like this could go a long way to making ND a consistent contender again. But anyone that the University lets in HAS to perform in the classroom, and off the field, the same as would be expected of any other student.

One or two per year would go a long way.

Can you imagine a modern day blue chip recruit sitting out a year to prove himself academically? Things have certainly changed.

 

[irishpat183]

One or two per year would go a long way.

Can you imagine a modern day blue chip recruit sitting out a year to prove himself academically? Things have certainly changed.

Don't make him sit out...just give him more help and let him do what he came to ND to do: Play football.

 

[kmoose]

LOL...there were more than just "a couple"...


And why not do the same?? Have special tutors, give these guys a chance.

Can you name the others?

And they can't have "special tutors", unless by that you mean the same tutors that are available to all of the players?

 

[IrishLion]

I'm just questioning all these blind Kelly fans, I'm not saying that Weis is a better coach. He clearly has a disconnect with college players.


Kelly hasn't won jack. Neither did Weis. At the end of the day, I'm still waiting for that BCS win or ring

I don't think you can say "blind Kelly fans" when you yourself admit the program is better than when he took over. You just disagree with what would mean "success," and that's perfectly fine. I just think people take issue with the way you refer to things. You aren't exactly engaging in level-headed debate at all times.

Your idea of success is BCS wins or national championships. That's unrealistic to expect year-in and year-out unless you're a Bama fan, but I understand where you're coming from. But ND and BK are much closer than you are giving credit for. In fact, you offer almost no credit whatsoever, you just always seem to be upset and lack hope, which is another thing that turns people off.

Kelly hasn't won a BCS game, you're right, but he has brought the program back to a consistent place. A place where 8 wins is the minimum, and where there are enough studs amongst the freshman/sophmore ranks that we should expect 10/11 win seasons every couple of years with a legit shot at a natty if the breaks fall right. To me, being in a position every year to fluctuate between 8 wins minimum and 11 wins realistically is a successful coaching job, especially at ND.

 

[T Town Tommy]

It seems to me that Notre Dame struggles with the little things... as I have mentioned in past posts. Kelly mentions attention to detail a lot as well. One thing I am not seeing discussed much here is the fact that attention to detail and little things are taught in practice. If you are coaching your players on game day then you are already behind most other opposing coaches.

With the amount of injuries the Irish have sustained this season, meaningful practices must be very difficult. Not throwing out excuses, but if you can't prepare against the practice squad due to a lot of them moving up due to injury, you are way behind before you ever start.

 

[koonja]

The thing that scares me, is most of these injuries occurred after the Purdue game and it's not like the defense looked good at all up to that point.

Yeah we lost Grace, Councel, but neither of them were playing well. I think Spond and Springman hurt the most, but every team loses a couple of key players.

 

[enrico514]

Seems to me like ND fans are oversold on ND! Fans having realistic expectations would make for a healthier and more fun football season for many!

 

[DCirishfan]

Weis' teams would have gotten blown out by ASU and USC. Kelly's team won both of those games.

Very true, but come on that bar was set pretty damn low lol

# syracuse #uconn # navy #nay

 

[CarrollVermin]

Seems to me like ND fans are oversold on ND! Fans having realistic expectations would make for a healthier and more fun football season for many!

What do you consider to be realistic expectations? Given what we pour into the program and all of the academic and athletic resources available to the head coach, what do you honestly consider realistic expectations for fans?

 

[kmoose]

What do you consider to be realistic expectations? Given what we pour into the program and all of the academic and athletic resources available to the head coach, what do you honestly consider realistic expectations for fans?

??

 

[IrishLion]

What do you consider to be realistic expectations? Given what we pour into the program and all of the academic and athletic resources available to the head coach, what do you honestly consider realistic expectations for fans?

8 wins minimum every year, with 10+ wins every couple of years, with the potential for more with luck/breaks/program-altering-players. As long as you are always in a position to take advantage of the breaks you catch and can cash in, you are in a good place. That's where ND is.

Hell, everything that could possibly have gone wrong this season has gone wrong, and this team can still win 8 or 9 (or possibly even 10) games.

 

[enrico514]

What do you consider to be realistic expectations? Given what we pour into the program and all of the academic and athletic resources available to the head coach, what do you honestly consider realistic expectations for fans?

That we aren't Alabama and that it takes time to rebuild a program and that during that process we may have a subpar year due to unforeseen circumstances.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

What do you consider to be realistic expectations? Given what we pour into the program and all of the academic and athletic resources available to the head coach, what do you honestly consider realistic expectations for fans?

I can't speak for others, but this is what I'd consider realistic:

8-9 wins is good.
10-11 is great.
12+ is phenomenal.
6-7 wins is occasionally (1-2 a decade) acceptable, depending on circumstances, as even the best programs have down years.
Less than 6 wins is never acceptable.

??

The resources ND's football program has at its disposal puts it among the nation's elite. Thus, CarrollVermin is suggesting that the high expectations of our fanbase are at least somewhat justified.

 

[CarrollVermin]

??

Money, facilities, stadium renovations, coaching salaries, etc. There is a heck of a financial investment (granted, for all programs at this level). So, I guess you can look at it from an ROI perspective.

 

[CarrollVermin]

I can't speak for others, but this is what I'd consider realistic:

8-9 wins is good.
10-11 is great.
12+ is phenomenal.
6-7 wins is occasionally (1-2 a decade) acceptable, depending on circumstances, as even the best programs have down years.
Less than 6 wins is never acceptable.



The resources ND's football program has at its disposal puts it among the nation's elite. Thus, CarrollVermin is suggesting that the high expectations of our fanbase are at least somewhat justified.

I would agree with all of this. I teeter on the 8 wins though...there is just something about going 8-4 that does not resonate as much as 9-3. I would take a top 25 ranking each year, with runs in the top 10 and top 5 on a consistent basis. I would also admit that the Stanford run has me a little jaded.

 

[kmoose]

Money, facilities, stadium renovations, coaching salaries, etc. There is a heck of a financial investment (granted, for all programs at this level). So, I guess you can look at it from an ROI perspective.

You COULD look at it from an ROI perspective, if it were YOUR money that was going to these things. But it's not, now is it? That was my point. Because the University is sinking a bunch of money into athletics, that doesn't mean that we get to act like spoiled children, when they aren't as good as we want them to be.

 

[Irish Insanity]

The thing that scares me, is most of these injuries occurred after the Purdue game and it's not like the defense looked good at all up to that point.

Yeah we lost Grace, Councel, but neither of them were playing well. I think Spond and Springman hurt the most, but every team loses a couple of key players.

Yes they do, and the great teams have someone capable of stepping in and filling the gap. We aren't at that point.

 

[Irish Insanity]

I can't speak for others, but this is what I'd consider realistic:

8-9 wins is good.
10-11 is great.
12+ is phenomenal.
6-7 wins is occasionally (1-2 a decade) acceptable, depending on circumstances, as even the best programs have down years.
Less than 6 wins is never acceptable.



The resources ND's football program has at its disposal puts it among the nation's elite. Thus, CarrollVermin is suggesting that the high expectations of our fanbase are at least somewhat justified.

I expect 10+ every year with the occasional 9 win season. Anything below that is a disappointment to me.

 

[CarrollVermin]

You COULD look at it from an ROI perspective, if it were YOUR money that was going to these things. But it's not, now is it? That was my point. Because the University is sinking a bunch of money into athletics, that doesn't mean that we get to act like spoiled children, when they aren't as good as we want them to be.

I do not enjoy your logic.

No, it does not give fans any reason to act like spoiled children, and I hate fans that go on that personal attack of the student athlete. But, there is an expectation of success, especially given the historical standing of the program. But you are right, it is not my money...though I do wish they would share some of it sometimes.

 

[kmoose]

I do not enjoy your logic.

No, it does not give fans any reason to act like spoiled children, and I hate fans that go on that personal attack of the student athlete. But, there is an expectation of success, especially given the historical standing of the program. But you are right, it is not my money...though I do wish they would share some of it sometimes.

I agree that there should be an expectation of success, but I think that most people have lost sight of the fact that 9-3, 8-4, IS success, considering the situation(s): losing starting QB for the season, having 13 of the 22 on the defensive 2 deep miss time, trying to replace both starting tailbacks from last year, trying to replace an All-American Middle Linebacker, etc. We're becoming an all or nothing society. There can be only one winner, and that's the person holding the trophy. Well, that's bvllshit! There are winners all around us, if we bother to pull our heads out of our a$$es long enough to look.

 

[Ultimate Penn St. Hater]

I expect 10+ every year with the occasional 9 win season. Anything below that is a disappointment to me.

Me too. Expecting Anything less would be unacceptable.