Jonathan Martin-Richie Incognito

[IrishLax]

Y! SPORTS


These guys get it. Stand up for yourself. Be a man.

Riley Cooper drops the n-bomb at no one in particular, gets ridiculed by every black player in his locker room and some try to fight him.

Richie Incognito calls one his own teammates a worthless nigger while trying to intimidate him... and his teammates/players around the league tell him to be a man about it.

What?

 

[RDU Irish]

Y! SPORTS


These guys get it. Stand up for yourself. Be a man.

um... that article seems to make the opposite point you are? Or are you siding with Rolle and the unnamed NFL execs that sound like Clubber Lang?

 

[RDU Irish]

Riley Cooper drops the n-bomb at no one in particular, gets ridiculed by every black player in his locker room and some try to fight him.

Richie Incognito calls one his own teammates a worthless nigger while trying to intimidate him... and his teammates/players around the league tell him to be a man about it.

What?

But he is an educated black man so it is OK.

 

[Woneone]

Well, there is such a thing as work place harassment, at it is clear this fits the bill. Whether NFL players or other athletes tolerate the harassment doesn't mean the moment someone doesn't that he is soft.

This is one of the problems with the NFL. The game of football is physical and you need to be tough to play it. But, you can't have an image of out of control meatheads, which is why the bounty issue was such a big deal. This is no different. NFL players are routinely hazed and at times, it really does go too far. The fact that it was so very obvious that Martin was being negatively impacted by this and no one in the organization stood up for him is a failure of leadership and of basic human dignity. Tolerating harassment does not equal toughness. Using harassment to foster toughness does not make you a man. A man is somebody who realizes when the line has been crossed and is willing to stand up for what is right. It appears at this point the Dolphins lack men.

It's also funny how many people talk about having to punch the "Bully" in the mouth.

Anyone ever done that to a bully you see every day? Ever just confronted them? Did it end there?

It doesn't "knock them down", it just makes them find something bigger to hit you or your family with tomorrow.

This is a guy who left calls about killing Martin and inflicting harm on his family. That's Crazy. Crazy knows no bounds.

Crazy gets a call to the cops. Call me a coward, fine. I'm the coward with all my teeth and a safe family.

 

[philipm31]

Well, there is such a thing as work place harassment, at it is clear this fits the bill. Whether NFL players or other athletes tolerate the harassment doesn't mean the moment someone doesn't that he is soft.

This is one of the problems with the NFL. The game of football is physical and you need to be tough to play it. But, you can't have an image of out of control meatheads, which is why the bounty issue was such a big deal. This is no different. NFL players are routinely hazed and at times, it really does go too far. The fact that it was so very obvious that Martin was being negatively impacted by this and no one in the organization stood up for him is a failure of leadership and of basic human dignity. Tolerating harassment does not equal toughness. Using harassment to foster toughness does not make you a man. A man is somebody who realizes when the line has been crossed and is willing to stand up for what is right, especially when it goes against popular thinking. It appears at this point the Dolphins lack men.

Amen....and if ANYONE thinks that Richie Incognito is actually a "man" after this, I think they need to re-evaluate what being a man actually means.

Dolphins TOTALLY lack leadership in that locker room....and everywhere else. Front office is a disaster and has been for years.

 

[NDBoiler]

In TROUBLE FOR WHAT???

Trying to toughen up a guy to play football?!?!?!


Again, what a joke.

Y! SPORTS


These guys get it. Stand up for yourself. Be a man.

Pat, I just can't fathom that you are truly this naive and ignorant. Please be honest and tell me you are just trolling.

 

[IrishLax]

BTW I don't know if anyone saw this last night, but it had me rolling:
A Few Good Linemen (with tweets) · Adam_Jacobi · Storify

 

[irishpat183]

Well, there is such a thing as work place harassment, at it is clear this fits the bill. Whether NFL players or other athletes tolerate the harassment doesn't mean the moment someone doesn't that he is soft.

This is one of the problems with the NFL. The game of football is physical and you need to be tough to play it. But, you can't have an image of out of control meatheads, which is why the bounty issue was such a big deal. This is no different. NFL players are routinely hazed and at times, it really does go too far. The fact that it was so very obvious that Martin was being negatively impacted by this and no one in the organization stood up for him is a failure of leadership and of basic human dignity. Tolerating harassment does not equal toughness. Using harassment to foster toughness does not make you a man. A man is somebody who realizes when the line has been crossed and is willing to stand up for what is right. It appears at this point the Dolphins lack men.

I understand your POV.....And I'm not syaing I agree with Incognito..but this has to be handled in house.


but once this witch hunt starts, it won't stop. Now the NFL and media, and limp dick bleeding hearts will want to be in EVERY locker room monitoring what is being said.

I hope Martin never finds another job.

 

[irishpat183]

Riley Cooper drops the n-bomb at no one in particular, gets ridiculed by every black player in his locker room and some try to fight him.

Richie Incognito calls one his own teammates a worthless nigger while trying to intimidate him... and his teammates/players around the league tell him to be a man about it.

What?

Exactly!!! Something doesn't add up.


I'm telling you....this isn't what it seems.

 

[irishpat183]

Pat, I just can't fathom that you are truly this naive and ignorant. Please be honest and tell me you are just trolling.

Please tell me you're not buying into this "6'5 300 pounder getting bullied", crap.

 

[wizards8507]

Martin is a joke and a coward. Like most other NFL players are saying. Plain and simple. While I despise Incognito, if it was SOOO bad...why have no other players come out to defend Martin? Not one peep outta the Miami locker room about how Igcognito is a racist or anythign else.

Look at the Riley Cooper situation....the Eagle players didn't want to play with him when they found out about what he said. If Incognito was such a racist and crossing lines, as some of you put it...where are all Martin's teammates?

Just odd.

This is FOOTBALL. Cut the bleeding heart "bullying" crap.

Bullying is a joke. Sack up and defend yourself. You're 6'5, 312 lbs.

In TROUBLE FOR WHAT???

Trying to toughen up a guy to play football?!?!?!

Again, what a joke.

I'm usually with you on this kind of stuff Pat, but Incognito was WAY out of line in all this. I don't like the "bully" term because these are grown a** men, but you can't be slinging n-bombs at people.

 

[Ndaccountant]

I understand your POV.....And I'm not syaing I agree with Incognito..but this has to be handled in house.


but once this witch hunt starts, it won't stop. Now the NFL and media, and limp dick bleeding hearts will want to be in EVERY locker room monitoring what is being said.

I hope Martin never finds another job.

Wow, dude.

As others have pointed out, we should be thankful that Martin acted like a man, blew the whistle and said we need to take a look at this. We should be thankful that he didn't bring a gun in and take matters into his own hands. If this type of harassment is as prevalent as some have lead us to believe, we should be counting our lucky stars that someone hasn't been murdered over the years. If Martin coming forward tones down that harassment that is taking place and that, in return, saves the life of one person over the next 100 years, he is a hero.

Trust me, I am all about mental toughness and self reliance. But this clearly crossed the line.

 

[dublinirish]

Please tell me you're not buying into this "6'5 300 pounder getting bullied", crap.

Martin went to a private school and then stanford, its same to say he might have had a sheltered upbringing and be ill equipped to handle the teasing and pranks of a NFL lockerroom. Dosen't matter if hes 6'5 or 4'5. I think a clever teammate/coach would realise stuff like this and use different techniques to motivate a player in a different manner to how Incognito did.

 

[wizards8507]

Wow, dude.

As others have pointed out, we should be thankful that Martin acted like a man, blew the whistle and said we need to take a look at this. We should be thankful that he didn't bring a gun in and take matters into his own hands. If this type of harassment is as prevalent as some have lead us to believe, we should be counting our lucky stars that someone hasn't been murdered over the years. If Martin coming forward tones down that harassment that is taking place and that, in return, saves the life of one person over the next 100 years, he is a hero.

Trust me, I am all about mental toughness and self reliance. But this clearly crossed the line.

The thing that makes the story sketchy is that they're NOT talking about harassment or racism. They're talking about "bullying." If they were describing it like you did, it would come off a bit more legit. Throwing around "bullying" between two grown men makes it seem like this whole thing is being milked to promote an agenda.

Martin went to a private school and then stanford, its same to say he might have had a sheltered upbringing and be ill equipped to handle the teasing and pranks of a NFL lockerroom. Dosen't matter if hes 6'5 or 4'5. I think a clever teammate/coach would realise stuff like this and use different techniques to motivate a player in a different manner to how Incognito did.

Nobody is saying Incognito was "right." They're saying this has nothing to do with "bullying."

 

[irishpat183]

I'm usually with you on this kind of stuff Pat, but Incognito was WAY out of line in all this. I don't like the "bully" term because these are grown a** men, but you can't be slinging n-bombs at people.

Regardless of what he said, as heinous as it was.....needs to be handled by the team and Martin.

This kinda stuff has no place in the media where it gets blown up and now we have to deal with the witchhunt crap and hear about how racism is such a huge problem in the NFL and we need to pass more rules to prevent it.


Again....where are the rest of the black players on the team? This is far worse than the Riley cooper situation.

 

[Ndaccountant]

The thing that makes the story sketchy is that they're NOT talking about harassment or racism. They're talking about "bullying." If they were describing it like you did, it would come off a bit more legit. Throwing around "bullying" between two grown men makes it seem like this whole thing is being milked to promote an agenda.

How the media wants to promote it is inconsequential. This was workplace harassment and nobody should have to endure that type of treatment when they are trying to make a living.

 

[NDBoiler]

Please tell me you're not buying into this "6'5 300 pounder getting bullied", crap.

This situation looks like a perfect storm of sorts where you have a "soft" player in Martin and an antagonist of Incognito who is psychologically abusing him. It isn't Martin's fault that Incoginito is an a-hole. If anyone is a coward it is Incoginito, because he is attacking a perceived "easy" target in Martin. How you or I or Antrelle Rolle might handle this situation if we were in Martin's shoes is irrelevant. Martin obviously has some sort of psychological/mental issue that has sadly been exacerbated (or maybe even created) by this situation. But what is also sad is the ignorance of those who think they are smarter for whatever reason and somehow know what is the best way of handling this without even bothering to understand it. The Yahoo article you cited supports this and highlights the ignorance of the sources quoted as well by exposing the double standard in the NFL. I know I probably just wasted my time typing this, but what the hell, maybe you'll surprise me.

 

[dublinirish]

whats the bets Icognito blames his behaviour on concussions now?

 

[irishpat183]

Wow, dude.

As others have pointed out, we should be thankful that Martin acted like a man, blew the whistle and said we need to take a look at this. We should be thankful that he didn't bring a gun in and take matters into his own hands. If this type of harassment is as prevalent as some have lead us to believe, we should be counting our lucky stars that someone hasn't been murdered over the years. If Martin coming forward tones down that harassment that is taking place and that, in return, saves the life of one person over the next 100 years, he is a hero.

Trust me, I am all about mental toughness and self reliance. But this clearly crossed the line.

Yet players thoughtout the NFL's history have handled it.....NOW it's bullying and a problem?

Saves lives? You're joking, right?


Again, maybe football and the NFL isn't a place for Johnathan Martin. A career in protesting de-forestation or saving the whales is probably a better fit

Martin went to a private school and then stanford, its same to say he might have had a sheltered upbringing and be ill equipped to handle the teasing and pranks of a NFL lockerroom. Dosen't matter if hes 6'5 or 4'5. I think a clever teammate/coach would realise stuff like this and use different techniques to motivate a player in a different manner to how Incognito did.

And who's to say that Martin wasn't going along with it before and just decided that today he wasn't in the mood?

Who says it was a "problem"? Maybe Martin just had a bad day?


Again, not condoning the language Incognito used...but that's really a moot point.

 

[irishpat183]

This situation looks like a perfect storm of sorts where you have a "soft" player in Martin and an antagonist of Incognito who is psychologically abusing him. It isn't Martin's fault that Incoginito is an a-hole. If anyone is a coward it is Incoginito, because he is attacking a perceived "easy" target in Martin. How you or I or Antrelle Rolle might handle this situation if we were in Martin's shoes is irrelevant. Martin obviously has some sort of psychological/mental issue that has sadly been exacerbated (or maybe even created) by this situation. But what is also sad is the ignorance of those who think they are smarter for whatever reason and somehow know what is the best way of handling this without even bothering to understand it. The Yahoo article you cited supports this and highlights the ignorance of the sources quoted as well by exposing the double standard in the NFL. I know I probably just wasted my time typing this, but what the hell, maybe you'll surprise me.

I agree here.

And as I said..Incognito is a dirty player that is known for being a *******.

But lots of other NFL playuers have put up with it, and probably got in his face and ended it.

I'm a believer in just handlilng this stuff in house. Brings the team together, and keeps the speculating media outta it.

 

[Ndaccountant]

Yet players thoughtout the NFL's history have handled it.....NOW it's bullying and a problem?

Saves lives? You're joking, right?


Again, maybe football and the NFL isn't a place for Johnathan Martin. A career in protesting de-forestation or saving the whales is probably a better fit




And who's to say that Martin wasn't going along with it before and just decided that today he wasn't in the mood?

Who says it was a "problem"? Maybe Martin just had a bad day?


Again, not condoning the language Incognito used...but that's really a moot point.

Why is there workplace violence? Why does my company force every employee to take a class on how to respond to an active shooter? Why does my company have yearly training classes for every supervisor and manager on harassment? Why does my company send managers each year to week long seminars on the 6 styles of leadership? Because it's fun? Because they like to waste money?

No. It's because that **** is real. Whether you like it or not, how you treat a person impacts their psyche, their decision making and their performance. Just because a guy doesn't want to take that abuse on a daily basis makes him any less of a man than you and I.

Oh, and by the way, you think a leader like Tony Dungy would stand for this or potentially order this? What about Mark Richt? You can have a team that performs on a high level without resorting to harassment. It's about character and leadership.

 

[wizards8507]

Why is there workplace violence? Why does my company force every employee to take a class on how to respond to an active shooter? Why does my company have yearly training classes for every supervisor and manager on harassment? Why does my company send managers each year to week long seminars on the 6 styles of leadership? Because it's fun? Because they like to waste money?

No. It's because that **** is real.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

No. That's not why. The reason you have to sit through bullsh*t compliance training is because (1) the government says you have to, and (2) your company's lawyers have decided it's a good way to keep from getting sued.

 

[NDBoiler]

I agree here.

And as I said..Incognito is a dirty player that is known for being a *******.

But lots of other NFL playuers have put up with it, and probably got in his face and ended it.

I'm a believer in just handlilng this stuff in house. Brings the team together, and keeps the speculating media outta it.

I agree with your first two lines Pat, but you're still not taking into account that this situation clearly involves a player who seems to have some sort of mental/psychological issue, and therefore you can't blindly expect it to be handled the same way (i.e. confrontation and handling it internally).

In regards to the media, that's just what the media does, for better or worse. Martin didn't dial up CNN or ESPN on his way out of the facility, in fact he hasn't even spoken publically since this went down. The Dolphins issued a statement about Martin and the media took it from there. I'd be willing to bet that something like this would've gotten out even if it was handled internally, especially given that there is at least the potential for a criminal act having been committed. That wouldn't look real good (read: also illegal) if that was covered up and "kept in house".

 

[Ndaccountant]

I agree here.

And as I said..Incognito is a dirty player that is known for being a *******.

But lots of other NFL playuers have put up with it, and probably got in his face and ended it.

I'm a believer in just handlilng this stuff in house. Brings the team together, and keeps the speculating media outta it.

You cannot tell me that other players, positional coaches, head coach or any other person would have any inkling that this is going on? Spare be that BS. If you work closely with someone you know when something is bother them, when something isn't right. Anyone around him could have picked up on it if they wanted to.

And who is to say that Martin didn't go to someone inhouse before leaving the team? If something has come out proving that he didn't, I have not seen it.

 

[Ndaccountant]

Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

No. That's not why. The reason you have to sit through bullsh*t compliance training is because (1) the government says you have to, and (2) your company's lawyers have decided it's a good way to keep from getting sued.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[irishpat183]

You cannot tell me that other players, positional coaches, head coach or any other person would have any inkling that this is going on? Spare be that BS. If you work closely with someone you know when something is bother them, when something isn't right. Anyone around him could have picked up on it if they wanted to.

And who is to say that Martin didn't go to someone inhouse before leaving the team? If something has come out proving that he didn't, I have not seen it.

They why didnt they? Please, if what Incognito was doing was so bad, why the hell didn't Martin's teammates do to him, what the Eagles players did to Riley cooper?

 

[wizards8507]

You have no idea what you are talking about.

Yes. I absolutely do. Harassment training is government-mandated because the Supreme Court has ruled that the employer can be sued if one employee harasses another, even if the employer was completely unaware of the harassment. The employer can avoid liability if they can prove they have made a good-faith effort to educate employees about harassment and prevent a culture thereof.

Developing an Employee Training Plan for Legal Compliance

 

[dublinirish]

lol remember that kid Saban made cry in training camp with the Dolphins? Jonathan Martin is probably lucky his coach is not Lil 'Ole Satan

 

[Ndaccountant]

They why didnt they? Please, if what Incognito was doing was so bad, why the hell didn't Martin's teammates do to him, what the Eagles players did to Riley cooper?

None of know why they didn't, but my hunch is that nobody wanted to be the leader and put themselves on the line to stop it. The culture in the NFL is one that fosters a meathead mentality and where contracts are not guaranteed and you could be out of a job at any moment. That promotes someone to look out for themselves first and others second. Maybe they saw it as an opportunity to take over Martin's spot. Maybe they didn't want to become the target of harassment. Maybe the coaches promoted the behavior and they felt like going against it put their *** on the line too.

In any case, we don't know right now. But, I am willing to wager that the culture around that organization promoted this type of behavior and there wasn't one person strong enough to buck that trend.

 

[Ndaccountant]

Yes. I absolutely do. Harassment training is government-mandated because the Supreme Court has ruled that the employer can be sued if one employee harasses another, even if the employer was completely unaware of the harassment. The employer can avoid liability if they can prove they have made a good-faith effort to educate employees about harassment and prevent a culture thereof.

Developing an Employee Training Plan for Legal Compliance

I know that it is mandated, but we have proven out countless times throughout our organization that effective leadership, which promotes a healthy work environment and inspires employees, leads to greater financial performance.

So, yes, it is mandated. But, you rushed to a conclusion not knowing one damn thing about the company nor the training that takes place and assumed it to be some BS regulatory requirement. Culture matters and harassment leads to negative culture.