ND Oversold on Kelly?

[NDinFL]

Florida State, Clemson, Wisconsin, Missouri, Baylor, TCU

For 5 years?

I disagree on TCU, Mizzou, and Baylor

 

[greyhammer90]

For 5 years?

I disagree on TCU, Mizzou, and Baylor

My reasoning:

TCU has been awful this year, and was just average last year, but all previous years they were a double-digit win team (13-0 one year) with a Rose Bowl victory.

Mizzou- Record is similar, the years just before the last 5 were MUCH better than ours. Last year was a mirage with their version of Johnny Football being hurt. And they're moving up the poll of public perception quickly.

Baylor- Heisman winner, exploding in terms of national respect, has become the Oregon of the southwest.

 

[NDinFL]

My reasoning:

TCU has been awful this year, and was just average last year, but all previous years they were a double-digit win team (13-0 one year) with a Rose Bowl victory.

Mizzou- Record is similar, the years just before the last 5 were MUCH better than ours. Last year was a mirage with their version of Johnny Football being hurt. And they're moving up the poll of public perception quickly.

Baylor- Heisman winner, exploding in terms of national respect, has become the Oregon of the southwest.

I can agree on Baylor, but the other ones.... Eh not so much.

If we are judging on the last 5 years

 

[Bogtrotter07]

So sick of people calling for Diaco to be fired, or that he sucks, etc etc. Not talking about any one poster in particular who has been talking ish about Diaco for quite some time, so no, (A) not trying to start another war. There's more people doing it.

(B) But Kelly's problem is not Diaco. Diaco had a bad game yesterday, NO DOUBT, but the shortsightedness of some fans is truly astonishing. This was a HIGH SCHOOL defense when he took over. And last year, we had the #1 scoring defense in the nation. Think about that. (C) So we want to fire a guy (or call him a mistake) because he has a bad game plan against an unconventional offense we see once a year, a year after he turned one of the worst defenses in the nation to one if its best???

Think about that. The lack of perspective and lack of memory of some fans is unreal. Diaco pissed me off yesterday and he's pissed me off before, but get a grip and think big picture - he's done an outstanding job during his time here and deserves much more praise than criticism. We can certainly fire him and hire another coach and digress ((D) calling for Elston, someone who has only been a co-coordinator for a MAC school for ONE YEAR, to replace Diaco as laughable)...and then everyone will be wishing for Diaco to return lol. Thank God Kelly doesn't listen to message boarders...

A) I am so glad! Then we can write that off as an impossibility, and this post will be taken positively!

B) Agreed. In fact I don't even think Kelly has a problem. He is 27-4 over the last 31 games.

C) I don't care about firing him. What I have said is I don't like his arrogance, etc. And he has not (just) had one bad game. Basically in the Kelly press conference, Kelly acknowledged that the last two years, ND got the offensive jump on Navy, and that made the difference, not a defensive game plan. The week before Kelly acknowledged that automatic checks that were for non-option teams were left in for the AFA game, which had Jaylon Smith responsible for pitch, contain and QB! Can you believe it? That is a situation that needs to be rectified! You don't necessarily fire people to rectify a situation. I just merely pointed out that I don't think Diaco is great from a strategic standpoint. And he seems to have little effect compared to the Alford, et al, with recruiting. And I would bet that with his development, he is less and less of a good fit for the Irish. But I don't care. How long did Ara or Lou keep a defensive Coordinator? And how many good ones are there? That is more my point. I wish Bob Diaco, Brian Kelly, and especially the Irish, all the best!

D) This is where fights start. What someone asked for is who would someone suggest as defensive coordinator. I wanted to pick someone on the staff. I could have suggested Elliot. I have listened to Elston and Elliot, (nice alliteration, huh?) I think Diaco's reputation profits off of them. Elston put together the d-line. He really knows the horseflesh and he knows how to get them to play well. And with the other help available, he could coordinate just fine. Elliott is the same way. It is no mistake how the defense came together last year.

Now take a look back at Cincy. Diaco worked as a coordinator at Cincy better because Cincy was going to win games on offense. And the fan base still wanted to run him out of town . . .

Now let us look forward to next year. Wasn't it you that noted our extreme lack of personnel coming back for the 3-4 if Nix and Tuitt declare for the draft? This is the subject for a good conversation!

My own personal thought is last year's defense was a wealth of talent in leadership, coaching and playmaking, not so much in coordinating. And I am the one who is just fine with Kelly, and thinks it is funny when people want to change what he does, like that will make the desired difference. But it is my opinion, neither more or less laughable than yours. And please, and I mean this sincerely, stop putting words in my mouth, especially if you are saying you don't want a fight.

 

[GowerND11]

Bama, Ohio State, Auburn, Oregon, Florida, Oklahoma...that's as far as I get.

Take away their undefeated NC in 2010 thanks to Cam Newton (whom we all know how many people feel about him and his "eligibility") and Auburn as been above average. Let's not forget the dumpster fire of a season last year....

 

[WakeUpEchoes]

Take away their undefeated NC in 2010 thanks to Cam Newton (whom we all know how many people feel about him and his "eligibility") and Auburn as been above average. Let's not forget the dumpster fire of a season last year....

Yeah...but they won a NC. And they are currently 8-1 ranked #7 in AP.

But yes, other seasons since 2008 have been meh.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

By won loss records, the only two schools that better ND over 31 games are Oregon, and Alabama. Can either can prove the strength of schedule?

 

[NDinL.A.]

A) I am so glad! Then we can write that off as an impossibility, and this post will be taken positively!

B) Agreed. In fact I don't even think Kelly has a problem. He is 27-4 over the last 31 games.

C) I don't care about firing him. What I have said is I don't like his arrogance, etc. And he has not (just) had one bad game. Basically in the Kelly press conference, Kelly acknowledged that the last two years, ND got the offensive jump on Navy, and that made the difference, not a defensive game plan. The week before Kelly acknowledged that automatic checks that were for non-option teams were left in for the AFA game, which had Jaylon Smith responsible for pitch, contain and QB! Can you believe it? That is a situation that needs to be rectified! You don't necessarily fire people to rectify a situation. I just merely pointed out that I don't think Diaco is great from a strategic standpoint. And he seems to have little effect compared to the Alford, et al, with recruiting. And I would bet that with his development, he is less and less of a good fit for the Irish. But I don't care. How long did Ara or Lou keep a defensive Coordinator? And how many good ones are there? That is more my point. I wish Bob Diaco, Brian Kelly, and especially the Irish, all the best!

D) This is where fights start. What someone asked for is who would someone suggest as defensive coordinator. I wanted to pick someone on the staff. I could have suggested Elliot. I have listened to Elston and Elliot, (nice alliteration, huh?) I think Diaco's reputation profits off of them. Elston put together the d-line. He really knows the horseflesh and he knows how to get them to play well. And with the other help available, he could coordinate just fine. Elliott is the same way. It is no mistake how the defense came together last year.

Now take a look back at Cincy. Diaco worked as a coordinator at Cincy better because Cincy was going to win games on offense. And the fan base still wanted to run him out of town . . .

Now let us look forward to next year. Wasn't it you that noted our extreme lack of personnel coming back for the 3-4 if Nix and Tuitt declare for the draft? This is the subject for a good conversation!

My own personal thought is last year's defense was a wealth of talent in leadership, coaching and playmaking, not so much in coordinating. And I am the one who is just fine with Kelly, and thinks it is funny when people want to change what he does, like that will make the desired difference. But it is my opinion, neither more or less laughable than yours. And please, and I mean this sincerely, stop putting words in my mouth, especially if you are saying you don't want a fight.

I laughed, so for me, Elston replacing Diaco at D-coordinator is laughable. And I was talking about people's stance on firing Diaco, not Kelly. No idea where you are getting me saying that you want Kelly fired.

I just completely disagree with your stance on Diaco (not just what you stated this thread, but for quite some time), and I disagree even more on replacing him with Elston. We'll never agree, so I'll just leave it at that.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

...
Mizzou- Record is similar, the years just before the last 5 were MUCH better than ours. Last year was a mirage with their version of Johnny Football being hurt. And they're moving up the poll of public perception quickly.
....

Say what we want about Navy, but 3 years ago they lost to Navy in their bowl game.

 

[NDinFL]

Say what we want about Navy, but 3 years ago they lost to Navy in their bowl game.

Huh?

 

[Ironman8]

Huh?

In 2009 Navy crushed Missouri 35-13 in the Texas Bowl.

 

[Ironman8]

This is the first time in 3 years this game has even been close. Two years ago, we crush Navy 56-14 the same year South Carolina (#10 in the nation) barely beats them 24-21. Were we better than South Carolina, or was it a weekly abberation?

It's College Football, **** happens week to week. I'll take W's, and BK has given them to us 27 out of the last 31 times. Sounds good to me.

 

[Dizzyphil]

This is the first time in 3 years this game has even been close. Two years ago, we crush Navy 56-14 the same year South Carolina (#10 in the nation) barely beats them 24-21. Were we better than South Carolina, or was it a weekly abberation?

It's College Football, **** happens week to week. I'll take W's, and BK has given them to us 27 out of the last 31 times. Sounds good to me.

Exactly....

It is truly amazing what a single turnover can create in the outcome of a game much less more than one; even penalties. Navy had not one penalty or turnover and the Irish had turnovers and penalties at key times during the game.

GO IRISH!!!!!!
Diz

 

[Bogtrotter07]

I laughed, so for me, Elston replacing Diaco at D-coordinator is laughable. And I was talking about people's stance on firing Diaco, not Kelly. No idea where you are getting me saying that you want Kelly fired.

I just completely disagree with your stance on Diaco (not just what you stated this thread, but for quite some time), and I disagree even more on replacing him with Elston. We'll never agree, so I'll just leave it at that.

Good! Then you took it the way it was meant.


I didn't say that you wanted Kelly fired. I was referring to when you said there would be no new contract and someone did something terrible that you knew about but didn't want to share, implying it was about Kelly. Do you remember?

That is okay that you disagree with my stance on Diaco. I don't really have one, I may be wrong, but if I am pressed I would replace him because I am prejudiced by his uncontested arrogance, and his pseudo-intellectualism. A glimpse of what I say can be gleaned if you know the super-model story.

As far as his performance, I just don't see the pieced fitting together for a championship run with him at the helm. I don't see another Manti, Kappy, or Zeke on the horizon, or another Louis and Stephon, for that matter.

His schemes seem easily defeated in bowl games or by teams with a bye week, by good coaches that have the time to plan for it. It isn't so bad during the season because most teams only have a week. But the only time I have seen bend but don't break work is in Russia against the French and Germans. And that resulted in a lot of scorched earth. I have no problem with close victories. But that is one potential cost of bend but don't break.

I will do this slowly. Someone said "Who could we get to replace Diaco?" I said "Elston." Further I said, "I could have said "Elliott." The point is that I feel it ironic because he is where he is because of his super defensive staff and players.

Here is another way to look at it. He was the Frank Broyles Assistant of the Year. And there were incredible college openings this last year. There will be some this year. Or there are some this year. He didn't go. Does he go this year?

I can do this another way. I had a guy that was a dotted-line report to me. In a conference call/meeting which include his actual boss, half a continent away, he brought up how good he was (again) and how both Xerox and Cisco both interviewed him for a position.

I asked him why he didn't take the job; what was he going to answer? Was it because he was afraid he wasn't good enough? That he didn't want more money? That he wasn't offered them? What choice did he have. His review didn't go well. He was the only one in the department that only got COL the next year.

Manny, didn't you tell me that there was no major contract improvement for the assistants and that some were pretty fed up with the situation? Let us both patiently wait to see what this seasons end brings.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

This is the first time in 3 years this game has even been close. Two years ago, we crush Navy 56-14 the same year South Carolina (#10 in the nation) barely beats them 24-21. Were we better than South Carolina, or was it a weekly abberation?

It's College Football, **** happens week to week. I'll take W's, and BK has given them to us 27 out of the last 31 times. Sounds good to me.

Always with the reason. Always.

 

[kmoose]

Good! Then you took it the way it was meant.


I didn't say that you wanted Kelly fired. I was referring to when you said there would be no new contract and someone did something terrible that you knew about but didn't want to share, implying it was about Kelly. Do you remember?

That is okay that you disagree with my stance on Diaco. I don't really have one, I may be wrong, but if I am pressed I would replace him because I am prejudiced by his uncontested arrogance, and his pseudo-intellectualism. A glimpse of what I say can be gleaned if you know the super-model story.

As far as his performance, I just don't see the pieced fitting together for a championship run with him at the helm. I don't see another Manti, Kappy, or Zeke on the horizon, or another Louis and Stephon, for that matter.

His schemes seem easily defeated in bowl games or by teams with a bye week, by good coaches that have the time to plan for it. It isn't so bad during the season because most teams only have a week. But the only time I have seen bend but don't break work is in Russia against the French and Germans. And that resulted in a lot of scorched earth. I have no problem with close victories. But that is one potential cost of bend but don't break.

I will do this slowly. Someone said "Who could we get to replace Diaco?" I said "Elston." Further I said, "I could have said "Elliott." The point is that I feel it ironic because he is where he is because of his super defensive staff and players.

Here is another way to look at it. He was the Frank Broyles Assistant of the Year. And there were incredible college openings this last year. There will be some this year. Or there are some this year. He didn't go. Does he go this year?

I can do this another way. I had a guy that was a dotted-line report to me. In a conference call/meeting which include his actual boss, half a continent away, he brought up how good he was (again) and how both Xerox and Cisco both interviewed him for a position.

I asked him why he didn't take the job; what was he going to answer? Was it because he was afraid he wasn't good enough? That he didn't want more money? That he wasn't offered them? What choice did he have. His review didn't go well. He was the only one in the department that only got COL the next year.

Manny, didn't you tell me that there was no major contract improvement for the assistants and that some were pretty fed up with the situation? Let us both patiently wait to see what this seasons end brings.

So where do you see Jaylon Smith topping out at? Darius Fleming, Mike Goolsby, maybe Courtney Watson?

 

[pkt77242]

This is the first time in 3 years this game has even been close. Two years ago, we crush Navy 56-14 the same year South Carolina (#10 in the nation) barely beats them 24-21. Were we better than South Carolina, or was it a weekly abberation?

It's College Football, **** happens week to week. I'll take W's, and BK has given them to us 27 out of the last 31 times. Sounds good to me.

hey now, this is a no reason zone. Take your reason and get the **** out.

 

[ACamp1900]

Bama, Ohio State, Auburn, Oregon, Florida, Oklahoma...that's as far as I get.

Exactly, I'd trade UGA and LSU for Auburn and add Stanford... And I'd take Florida out honestly... But point remains, in five years ND went from a borderline top 25 program ( at best) year in year out to arguably a top ten program...

 

[IrishLion]

Now take a look back at Cincy. Diaco worked as a coordinator at Cincy better because Cincy was going to win games on offense. And the fan base still wanted to run him out of town . . .

Sorry Bogs but that's not true, or at least in terms of the majority.

It doesn't make sense to use BK/Diaco's time at Cincy to color your opinion for a few reasons:

1. Cincy won games with offense, yes, but Diaco was only there for ONE season. A season in which he had to replace TEN STARTERS. And as that season wore on, you could learn to expect the Bearcat D to make a big play (sack, INT, forced fumble) when needed.

2. Cincy fans are stupid. I am one so I'm very familiar with them. If you are referencing their opinion on wanting to run Diaco out of town as one of you reasons to be dissatisfied with him, then you might as well include Kelly, because they hate the guy and swear that the only reason UC had success under him was because he got lucky with his QBs. UC has their share of delusional fans, just like ND, so it looks like your experience was with the bad apples that had no idea of what was actually going on. The majority thought Diaco was doing a nice job of rebuilding (some others had no idea who he was lol).

3. Cincinnati's D was actually pretty decent in 2009. They had three games where they gave up huge points, otherwise they were pretty stout, especially in crunch time. The three aborations were against Illinois (when their offense was clicking under Juice Williams), Uconn (who had Zach Frazer and Jordan Todmann... ND had experience trying to stop them), and Pitt (who had Dion Lewis and Jon Baldwin making quite a few defenses look silly). Those three games were shootouts against good offenses... and you must remember that BK's offense helped UC's defense ZERO in such shootouts in terms of letting them rest.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

So where do you see Jaylon Smith topping out at? Darius Fleming, Mike Goolsby, maybe Courtney Watson?

Not as high as all three together! Next step in our conversation : Like logs of a fire, the synergy of those three, one with each position group created a special effect.

Oh, by the way, I am not going back to look at which thread when, but I don't think you can find a USMC loss ever. I would defer to Grahambo on that one, but I cannot remember such a situation.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Sorry Bogs but that's not true, or at least in terms of the majority.

It doesn't make sense to use BK/Diaco's time at Cincy to color your opinion for a few reasons:

1. Cincy won games with offense, yes, but Diaco was only there for ONE season. A season in which he had to replace TEN STARTERS. And as that season wore on, you could learn to expect the Bearcat D to make a big play (sack, INT, forced fumble) when needed.

2. Cincy fans are stupid. I am one so I'm very familiar with them. If you are referencing their opinion on wanting to run Diaco out of town as one of you reasons to be dissatisfied with him, then you might as well include Kelly, because they hate the guy and swear that the only reason UC had success under him was because he got lucky with his QBs. UC has their share of delusional fans, just like ND, so it looks like your experience was with the bad apples that had no idea of what was actually going on. The majority thought Diaco was doing a nice job of rebuilding (some others had no idea who he was lol).

3. Cincinnati's D was actually pretty decent in 2009. They had three games where they gave up huge points, otherwise they were pretty stout, especially in crunch time. The three aborations were against Illinois (when their offense was clicking under Juice Williams), Uconn (who had Zach Frazer and Jordan Todmann... ND had experience trying to stop them), and Pitt (who had Dion Lewis and Jon Baldwin making quite a few defenses look silly). Those three games were shootouts against good offenses... and you must remember that BK's offense helped UC's defense ZERO in such shootouts in terms of letting them rest.

You know I love you man! But I don't understand how anything you said had anything to do with what I was talking about.

I did forget that Bob Diaco only had one year as a DC (and that was at Cincy) before he came to ND! Hmm! Giving a guy the DC job at ND with only one year of DC experience! That will never work! Just kidding!

 

[IrishLion]

You know I love you man! But I don't understand how anything you said had anything to do with what I was talking about.

You were discussing Diaco's shortcomings, and mentioned his time at Cincy. His time at Cincy was irrelevant, and even so your belief that fans wanted to run him out of town is mistaken.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

You were discussing Diaco's shortcomings, and mentioned his time at Cincy. His time at Cincy was irrelevant, and even so your belief that fans wanted to run him out of town is mistaken.

I was at a birthday party today, with Cincy fans. (Seven) When I walked in everyone taunted me over the "close game with Navy." The Cincy fans all rose in chorus, "That is what you get with Diaco!" I guess it is your experience versus mine. I respect yours.

Also, someone in the athletic department that is still there mentioned his "extreme arrogance." Said he put Kelly to shame. Just what I heard.

 

[kmoose]

Not as high as all three together! Next step in our conversation : Like logs of a fire, the synergy of those three, one with each position group created a special effect.

Oh, by the way, I am not going back to look at which thread when, but I don't think you can find a USMC loss ever. I would defer to Grahambo on that one, but I cannot remember such a situation.

Khe Sanh, for one.

 

[greyhammer90]

I was at a birthday party today, with Cincy fans. (Seven) When I walked in everyone taunted me over the "close game with Navy." The Cincy fans all rose in chorus, "That is what you get with Diaco!" I guess it is your experience versus mine. I respect yours.

Also, someone in the athletic department that is still there mentioned his "extreme arrogance." Said he put Kelly to shame. Just what I heard.

They sound butthurt. But I don't know them.

 

[IrishLion]

I was at a birthday party today, with Cincy fans. (Seven) When I walked in everyone taunted me over the "close game with Navy." The Cincy fans all rose in chorus, "That is what you get with Diaco!" I guess it is your experience versus mine. I respect yours.

Also, someone in the athletic department that is still there mentioned his "extreme arrogance." Said he put Kelly to shame. Just what I heard.

You're my boy Bogs, but those guys would probably also say that Brian Kelly isn't a good coach. Find new UC-fan friends!

 

[KPENN]

I was at a birthday party today, with Cincy fans. (Seven) When I walked in everyone taunted me over the "close game with Navy." The Cincy fans all rose in chorus, "That is what you get with Diaco!" I guess it is your experience versus mine. I respect yours.

Also, someone in the athletic department that is still there mentioned his "extreme arrogance." Said he put Kelly to shame. Just what I heard.

 

[ryno 24]

I was at a birthday party today, with Cincy fans. (Seven) When I walked in everyone taunted me over the "close game with Navy." The Cincy fans all rose in chorus, "That is what you get with Diaco!" I guess it is your experience versus mine. I respect yours.

Also, someone in the athletic department that is still there mentioned his "extreme arrogance." Said he put Kelly to shame. Just what I heard.

Being a Xavier fan I would never trust the word of a UC fan. I also heard from them that he doesnt care about his players, and that he was not a good coach. Lets not what forget what Diaco did last year and his players love him. It sometimes is difficult to stop the triple option.

 

[ickythump1225]

So we're 27-4 over the last 31 games but BK still sucks and Diaco should be fired according to some here? Got it.

 

[Irish Insanity]

So we're 27-4 over the last 31 games but BK still sucks and Diaco should be fired according to some here? Got it.

You forgot the part about how horrible we are in recruiting and developing those players.