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cody1smith

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For example

If $100,000 can pay out $350/month without lifting a finger your $100,000 property might rent out for $700/month less maybe $250/month taxes, insurance, regular maintenance expense. To "beat" the passive investment, that only leaves $100/month for CAPEX reserves to replace the roof, driveway, sidewalk, dishwasher, fridge, carpet, etc, etc, etc.

The investment dividend increases say 4% to 6% per year average of 5%. If you spend the dividend you still get a pay raise every year so that in 10 years your $350/month turns into $570/month. 20 years it is $930/month. 30 years = $1500/month. Get sick and the checks still show up, kids inherit it and they can dispose of it easily. No future cash infusion necessary if the roof leaks or have to pay a lawyer to evict and garnish wages.

Reinvest those dividends and you are compounding that income growth that much faster.
The last duplex I built cost 139k and some change. Brings in 1450 monthly. Also providing we do not have a huge down turn in the economy it will be worth 50 percent more than that in 10 years.
So 500 a month for 10 years. 60,000
Increase of property value 70,000
minus my investment 20,000
that's 110k in 10 years for a 140k dollar investment. That's pretty solid and without luck not gonna happen in any market.
 

BleedBlueGold

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I take less than 10k a year out of my rental. And between me and my wife hours that's way less than min wage. But it is a huge tax shelter, it makes all of its own payments and for the most part is gaining in value annually. So other than the being in debt seven figures its a pretty good deal if you are willing to put in the time.

This would terrify me. More power to ya...but wow, that'd be 24-7 stress for me.


I love real estate. But there's no reason you can't do both kinds of investing. You shouldn't have ALL of your money tied up in the market anyways. A personal business, real estate, etc are good ways to diversify.

The tax sheltering in real estate (especially if you qualify as a real estate professional) are awesome. Add the "free equity" and the ability to trade-up via a 1031 exchange, and real estate investing can be very lucrative. (It can also destroy you if you do it wrong...but that's why you hire a good lawyer, CPA, accountant, etc)
 

RDU Irish

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The last duplex I built cost 139k and some change. Brings in 1450 monthly. Also providing we do not have a huge down turn in the economy it will be worth 50 percent more than that in 10 years.
So 500 a month for 10 years. 60,000
Increase of property value 70,000
minus my investment 20,000
that's 110k in 10 years for a 140k dollar investment. That's pretty solid and without luck not gonna happen in any market.

Just working through this for a good real life example. Sounds like a good investment for you but not without risk and lots of work.

Sounds like $500/month is net of mortgage and expenses. New construction means no major maintenance for quite a while. To be fair, 5% vacancy would eat up $8k to $9k of revenue over 10 years, add a couple more thousand to replace appliances and other low $ CAPEX items. Equally fair, a 20 year mortgage in 10 years will be paid down to say $75,000 from $120,000.

How many hours worked into it over that time? Your investment of time is not worthless.

$20,000 + hours invested (ignoring that you built it, lets say 10 hours per month = 1200 hours at $20/hour for $24,000 additional investment)

ten years - $125k equity (if appreciated to $200K) plus $50,000 positive cash flow.

Reduce cash flow to $26,000 to account for time invested and you still net $151,000 on a $20,000 investment over 10 years. 22% compounded return, but 80%+ leverage is employed to get it. Now if you sell without a 1031 you depreciation recapture and pay cap gains cutting your net substantially. $10k -$15k taxes on recapture plus similar amount on cap gains (assuming you get 50% appreciation) and your net is now $120,000ish and still impressive 20% annual return.


Now the risk, If interest rates increase over the next 10-20 years, ARMs start resetting with higher payments pinching cash flow. Rental values are driven by Cap rates, higher interest rates will demand higher cap rates in the market. If you are currently an 8% to 9% cap rate (12k/$140k) and the market moves to 12%, your place is now worth $100,000. Hope you have an ARM and not a balloon note because refinancing a 5 year balloon when rates are up and your value is down can mean you are in trouble. Most banks will require personal guarantee to finance an investment property so compounding this problem over a portfolio of properties shows you how so many can boom and bust in real estate.

I know you have a handle on these things, just trying to point out for others it is not nearly as clear cut as Dave Ramsey and the litany of get quick real estate seminars would have you believe. Tons of factors go into determining your true ROI and leverage in real estate is a huge factor in outsized gains.
 

RDU Irish

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This would terrify me. More power to ya...but wow, that'd be 24-7 stress for me.


I love real estate. But there's no reason you can't do both kinds of investing. You shouldn't have ALL of your money tied up in the market anyways. A personal business, real estate, etc are good ways to diversify.

The tax sheltering in real estate (especially if you qualify as a real estate professional) are awesome. Add the "free equity" and the ability to trade-up via a 1031 exchange, and real estate investing can be very lucrative. (It can also destroy you if you do it wrong...but that's why you hire a good lawyer, CPA, accountant, etc)

Absolutely does not insulate you from market forces. Higher interests will wreak havoc on investment real estate if they rise sharply (I might argue when). Even if you own yours outright, you will feel the pain of overleveraged/undercapitalized neighbors dumping on the market, dropping rents to fill vacancies and whatnot. Jobs dry up in your town and can't move your properties to greener pastures. Crime spree down the street can get people moving out. Plenty of things outside of your control can deep six you just as quickly as being cavalier with your business structure.

Vanguard REIT index dropped from $78 to $66 in a month when rates spiked earlier this year. Imagine what a return to 5% money markets would do. Just because your investment properties are not priced daily does not mean the value does not move just as much.

I have a hard time seeing huge price appreciation in real estate until interest rates get back to a normal level and/or employment improves. Hard to raise rents when people don't have jobs.
 

drayer54

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RDU Irish, good posts indeed. It is good to have a few finance guys in the house.

I think having a rental or two is different from being deep into the rental market. I think a nice mix of DRIP-don't touch it stocks and some more aggressive plays with a little exposure to the real estate market is nice. If you can't swing it on a 15 year fixed rate though, I wouldn't do it. Just my humble opinion.
 

BleedBlueGold

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Just working through this for a good real life example. Sounds like a good investment for you but not without risk and lots of work.

Sounds like $500/month is net of mortgage and expenses. New construction means no major maintenance for quite a while. To be fair, 5% vacancy would eat up $8k to $9k of revenue over 10 years, add a couple more thousand to replace appliances and other low $ CAPEX items. Equally fair, a 20 year mortgage in 10 years will be paid down to say $75,000 from $120,000.

How many hours worked into it over that time? Your investment of time is not worthless.

$20,000 + hours invested (ignoring that you built it, lets say 10 hours per month = 1200 hours at $20/hour for $24,000 additional investment)

ten years - $125k equity (if appreciated to $200K) plus $50,000 positive cash flow.

Reduce cash flow to $26,000 to account for time invested and you still net $151,000 on a $20,000 investment over 10 years. 22% compounded return, but 80%+ leverage is employed to get it. Now if you sell without a 1031 you depreciation recapture and pay cap gains cutting your net substantially. $10k -$15k taxes on recapture plus similar amount on cap gains (assuming you get 50% appreciation) and your net is now $120,000ish and still impressive 20% annual return.


Now the risk, If interest rates increase over the next 10-20 years, ARMs start resetting with higher payments pinching cash flow. Rental values are driven by Cap rates, higher interest rates will demand higher cap rates in the market. If you are currently an 8% to 9% cap rate (12k/$140k) and the market moves to 12%, your place is now worth $100,000. Hope you have an ARM and not a balloon note because refinancing a 5 year balloon when rates are up and your value is down can mean you are in trouble. Most banks will require personal guarantee to finance an investment property so compounding this problem over a portfolio of properties shows you how so many can boom and bust in real estate.

I know you have a handle on these things, just trying to point out for others it is not nearly as clear cut as Dave Ramsey and the litany of get quick real estate seminars would have you believe. Tons of factors go into determining your true ROI and leverage in real estate is a huge factor in outsized gains.

This is a great summary. Thanks for taking the time to do this. The Risk paragraph is exactly why I won't go into debt to buy these properties. It's personal preference. Also, as someone else pointed out earlier, Dave doesn't recommend real estate investing to anyone and everyone. He's notorious for telling people to sell their properties if it's part of a bad financial plan (or telling people not to buy if it's part of a bad plan as well). He's not a "get rich quick" kind of fellow. In fact, he's the exact opposite of that (due to the fact that he lost millions in his mid-20s because he spread himself too thin and borrowed too much money). Today, he invests in mutual funds. Slowly but surely he builds up enough capital to buy his next property (100% in cash, no financing). This is how I plan to go about my business. Will it take longer? Absolutely. But it's safer (and since it's not my primary source of income, I'm ok with that.)
 

drayer54

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Rentals are very hard work and very very risky. 1 million dollars on arm loans is scary to anyone with any sort of a brain. But they also make money every month and if you keep them up and buy/build them at the right price they gain value over time.

I am in the process of finishing up another storage unit now. (rained out today, doing book work now) They are way easier than home rentals.

I'm interested in dipping into the storage unit market. How much start up cost are you seeing there? I'm curious to hear your thoughts on that?

Thanks
 

BleedBlueGold

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Absolutely does not insulate you from market forces. Higher interests will wreak havoc on investment real estate if they rise sharply (I might argue when). Even if you own yours outright, you will feel the pain of overleveraged/undercapitalized neighbors dumping on the market, dropping rents to fill vacancies and whatnot. Jobs dry up in your town and can't move your properties to greener pastures. Crime spree down the street can get people moving out. Plenty of things outside of your control can deep six you just as quickly as being cavalier with your business structure.

Vanguard REIT index dropped from $78 to $66 in a month when rates spiked earlier this year. Imagine what a return to 5% money markets would do. Just because your investment properties are not priced daily does not mean the value does not move just as much.

I have a hard time seeing huge price appreciation in real estate until interest rates get back to a normal level and/or employment improves. Hard to raise rents when people don't have jobs.

There's risk in every investment....things that are beyond your control. You just have to play it safe, play it smart, and ride it out. Owning your properties outright at the very least will help eliminate some of the risk, allowing you to focus on other areas of concern.

A perfect example would be testing your personal RE market. Some towns/cities around the country are back to booming (mine is one of them). People are back to flipping houses. But in others areas, RE isn't moving at all. In fact, some towns are imploding and people are fleeing. In this type of scenario, you're best bet is to play it safe, play it slow, and ride it out. Grind out whatever rental income you can get until HOPEFULLY the market turns back around. Then sell for profit and trade up. I know it's more difficult than my small paragraph suggests, but you get my point (I hope).

It's almost always cyclical. There's a reason you hear about investors swooping in to buy up foreclosures when things get bad. They buy these houses pennies on the dollar, make them liveable, rent them out, and wait out the market. When it comes back around, they sell. And while it's booming, the flip homes instead of renting them. People do this all the time and they spread it all over the country trying to time the next bubble. (I wouldn't recommend that...but hopefully my post makes sense.)
 

RDU Irish

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Great feedback BBG. It is pretty hard to go broke in real estate with zero leverage. The bigger risk is being a slave to your properties and not seeing positive ROI. Just like investing in a stock, if you are happy with income generated and don't intend to sell there is no reason to sweat the day to day valuation.

Building your portfolio (real estate or otherwise) for positive cash flow and survivability is key. Leverage cuts into your ability to die another day. In stocks, that leverage is hidden on the balance sheet of what you own, not on your brokerage statement. Banks are essentially 95% leveraged entities, which is why they blow up every 15 years or so.

However, diversifying means you won't go to zero. The S&P 500 may get cut in half but it isn't going to zero. Any individual stock within it cannot say the same thing.
 

Irish Insanity

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RDUIrish, rentals is something my GF is urging me strongly against. At least single family. She has a 15 year career in property management and comes from a family that has owned several rental properties. The single family market is just so hot and cold. If its rented you make money, when its vacant you don't. Plus all the time and expenses in between tenants. However, it all depends on how you buy the house. Our other house was purchased outright for about 20% of the value of the surrounding homes. It does need work, most of which we can do, and some things that will cost some money. But if we invest the same amount into the renovation as we paid then we are still at >50% investment to value. And most or none of which will be financed. I live in Michigan and have rehabbed 3 houses prior that were all mine or family members. All done the same way. If you look hard enough in todays economy you can find properties that are owned by out of state banks. These are typically easier to get for a small price as the bank doesn't have the local resources to know the value, condition, or anything about it. And if you can get one with a decent value at a small price and decide not to rent, upon selling you will often double your investment at minimum.
 

RDU Irish

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RDUIrish, rentals is something my GF is urging me strongly against. At least single family. She has a 15 year career in property management and comes from a family that has owned several rental properties. The single family market is just so hot and cold. If its rented you make money, when its vacant you don't. Plus all the time and expenses in between tenants. However, it all depends on how you buy the house. Our other house was purchased outright for about 20% of the value of the surrounding homes. It does need work, most of which we can do, and some things that will cost some money. But if we invest the same amount into the renovation as we paid then we are still at >50% investment to value. And most or none of which will be financed. I live in Michigan and have rehabbed 3 houses prior that were all mine or family members. All done the same way. If you look hard enough in todays economy you can find properties that are owned by out of state banks. These are typically easier to get for a small price as the bank doesn't have the local resources to know the value, condition, or anything about it. And if you can get one with a decent value at a small price and decide not to rent, upon selling you will often double your investment at minimum.

Flip the crap out of them. Sounds like tying money up in rental properties is a lot less lucrative. If you are able to double your money in six months you do that and spend your time finding the same opportunity, not handholding tenants. Besides, I would want to stay liquid for the next opportunity. Cash is king when buying distressed properties. Next in line is the knowledge and skill to renovate on your own back.

I can see how the opportunity might be there in Michigan. I would be worried about tenants being able to pay the rent though with the crummy local economy. Selling passes that risk onto others.
 

Wild Bill

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Insanity - No taxes? Try deferred taxes.

I agree with you guys, if you have the skillset (handy with a hammer/DIY project + temperament to deal with tenants) jumping into real estate with both feet can be very rewarding. My biggest question, how do you account for your hours worked relative to the "profit" of the business. Are you really getting that much further ahead than if you were to pick up a second job working 20-40 hours per week at $10/hour and dumping the entire paycheck into income generating investments (example a stock portfolio yielding 4% on average). With the tax advantages of real estate and the way you are doing it, I bet you are getting ahead. I just wonder about the scalability, how many properties can you really manage and does profitability fall apart once you have to hire support staff?

It is far from a get rich quick scheme, it is immense amounts of hard work and sacrifice to build an real estate empire. It is then harder to transition to where you can actually take a week or two off or even retire. Kind of a farmer model to wealth, live poor - die rich

Great post. I take into account the obvious - purchase price, taxes, insurance, estimated materials and labor (that I choose not to do on my own), but I never calculate my own labor expense. Generally, an investor should calculate their labor. I don't for two reasons: 1. My father taught me how to do it and turn large profits (invest in what you know theory). Basically, I know I have to bust my butt, but in the end, I enjoy a high level of certainty that I will make a profit. I'm willing to trade my time for guaranteed profitability (nothing is guaranteed, but my father has never taken a loss on a property. Hope I keep the streak alive). 2. I love it. Don't get me wrong, sometimes I daydream about my father being a stock broker - life would certainly be easier. But overall, I enjoy what I do. I'm fortunate enough to make enough at my job to live comfortably. I do the real estate stuff by choice, not necessity.

My employer would never allow me to work for someone else. I respect his policy, in fact, I agree with it. It's not an option for me.

I wonder about the scaleability myself. It's all fact sensitive. Right now, I don't have a wife or kids so I have more time on my hands. That may change in the future. It also depends upon the condition of the rentals and the quality of tenants. I believe I could handle between 15-20 occupied units without much trouble now (assumes no rehab work, just repairs and routine maintenance). That would probably change in the future as my responsibilities at home will change.

I respectfully disagree with your "live poor - die rich" theory. My plan was not to get rich quick. I was realistic when I started. The plan was to buy 10 units within 10 years. Make sure I had positive cash flow from each unit and never finance more than 50% of the value of any given property (the real estate crash really scared the sh!t out of me). I've tweaked the plan here and there but for the most part, I'm on track - maybe even ahead of schedule. Let's assume I finish the four unit, rent it out and stop buying properties. My gross rents per month will be around $5,000. My taxes, insurance and routine maintenance would be roughly $1,000 per month - leaving a net income of $4,000 per month. Essentially, I created a pension for myself after four years of work. I'm 31 and should, with relative ease, collect rent from these homes for the next 30 years. If I continue with the plan and enjoy the same success, I'll come close to doubling that monthly income. It's hard work and I'm not living rich, but I'm certainly not living poor either.

If $100,000 can pay out $350/month without lifting a finger your $100,000 property might rent out for $700/month less maybe $250/month taxes, insurance, regular maintenance expense. To "beat" the passive investment, that only leaves $100/month for CAPEX reserves to replace the roof, driveway, sidewalk, dishwasher, fridge, carpet, etc, etc, etc.

The investment dividend increases say 4% to 6% per year average of 5%. If you spend the dividend you still get a pay raise every year so that in 10 years your $350/month turns into $570/month. 20 years it is $930/month. 30 years = $1500/month. Get sick and the checks still show up, kids inherit it and they can dispose of it easily. No future cash infusion necessary if the roof leaks or have to pay a lawyer to evict and garnish wages.

Reinvest those dividends and you are compounding that income growth that much faster.

Again, great post. You certainly have a point. I enjoy a larger profit on my investments b/c I was able to secure a very low (relative to the market) purchase price and saved on labor expenses. Below are the figures to one property:

I purchased the second home for $53,500. I invested $35,000 in materials/labor. It was a real disaster and took me about 14 months to complete. I'd say a fair estimate would be 1,500 hours. It's appraised value is now $190,000. I rent it out for $1,400 per month. My taxes and insurance are $200 per month. So, in that 14 months, I picked up about $100,000 of equity and net about $1,200 per month after fixed expenses (does not account for maintenance and routine repair for wear and tear). Not bad for fourteen months of work.
 

drayer54

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WHat kind of storage are you looking in to?

I'm working with a contractor to tentatively estimate the build price on a new unit with concrete all around and two size units with outdoor parking in the back end.

I'm looking at pricing from other units in the area and everybody seems pretty full...

I don't want to dip any further into housing.

Just my next idea.
 

cody1smith

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Great post. I take into account the obvious - purchase price, taxes, insurance, estimated materials and labor (that I choose not to do on my own), but I never calculate my own labor expense. Generally, an investor should calculate their labor. I don't for two reasons: 1. My father taught me how to do it and turn large profits (invest in what you know theory). Basically, I know I have to bust my butt, but in the end, I enjoy a high level of certainty that I will make a profit. I'm willing to trade my time for guaranteed profitability (nothing is guaranteed, but my father has never taken a loss on a property. Hope I keep the streak alive). 2. I love it. Don't get me wrong, sometimes I daydream about my father being a stock broker - life would certainly be easier. But overall, I enjoy what I do. I'm fortunate enough to make enough at my job to live comfortably. I do the real estate stuff by choice, not necessity.

My employer would never allow me to work for someone else. I respect his policy, in fact, I agree with it. It's not an option for me.

I wonder about the scaleability myself. It's all fact sensitive. Right now, I don't have a wife or kids so I have more time on my hands. That may change in the future. It also depends upon the condition of the rentals and the quality of tenants. I believe I could handle between 15-20 occupied units without much trouble now (assumes no rehab work, just repairs and routine maintenance). That would probably change in the future as my responsibilities at home will change.

I respectfully disagree with your "live poor - die rich" theory. My plan was not to get rich quick. I was realistic when I started. The plan was to buy 10 units within 10 years. Make sure I had positive cash flow from each unit and never finance more than 50% of the value of any given property (the real estate crash really scared the sh!t out of me). I've tweaked the plan here and there but for the most part, I'm on track - maybe even ahead of schedule. Let's assume I finish the four unit, rent it out and stop buying properties. My gross rents per month will be around $5,000. My taxes, insurance and routine maintenance would be roughly $1,000 per month - leaving a net income of $4,000 per month. Essentially, I created a pension for myself after four years of work. I'm 31 and should, with relative ease, collect rent from these homes for the next 30 years. If I continue with the plan and enjoy the same success, I'll come close to doubling that monthly income. It's hard work and I'm not living rich, but I'm certainly not living poor either.



Again, great post. You certainly have a point. I enjoy a larger profit on my investments b/c I was able to secure a very low (relative to the market) purchase price and saved on labor expenses. Below are the figures to one property:

I purchased the second home for $53,500. I invested $35,000 in materials/labor. It was a real disaster and took me about 14 months to complete. I'd say a fair estimate would be 1,500 hours. It's appraised value is now $190,000. I rent it out for $1,400 per month. My taxes and insurance are $200 per month. So, in that 14 months, I picked up about $100,000 of equity and net about $1,200 per month after fixed expenses (does not account for maintenance and routine repair for wear and tear). Not bad for fourteen months of work.
Wow rent is way different only 4 1/2 hours away. You would be hard pressed to get 1400 a month for any house here. Hell the house I live in may not bring that and it has a bar that seats 20 and a full theatre with 152 inch screen and couch seating for up to 12 not to mention walk in showers and full video surveillance.

Brand new story and a half 3 bed 2 1/2 baths are 750. and that has a 2 car garage
 

Wild Bill

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Wow rent is way different only 4 1/2 hours away. You would be hard pressed to get 1400 a month for any house here. Hell the house I live in may not bring that and it has a bar that seats 20 and a full theatre with 152 inch screen and couch seating for up to 12 not to mention walk in showers and full video surveillance.

Brand new story and a half 3 bed 2 1/2 baths are 750. and that has a 2 car garage

Rents have really increased around the area over the last three years. The driving force, IMO, is BP, US steel and Arcelor Mittal. They have a large portion of the population employed and they make a great wage, relatively speaking. BP was so busy the past three years, they have been bringing guys in from around the nation to work. My buddy bought a bundle of houses in Hammond Indiana (near the plant) and rented them for $500 to $600 per room. Dirt cheap for a single male making $100k plus per year.

I rented the house to a family. It's brand new, four rooms, two and a half bath with a garage on an acre. I planned on renting it for $1200. I did a little research and realized it was too cheap. They thought $1400 was a bargain.
 

cody1smith

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I'm working with a contractor to tentatively estimate the build price on a new unit with concrete all around and two size units with outdoor parking in the back end.

I'm looking at pricing from other units in the area and everybody seems pretty full...

I don't want to dip any further into housing.

Just my next idea.
The unit I finished in june is 40 by 288 and has 20 units 12 by 40. No concrete just gravel. 20 10 by 10 doors(overhead) do not buy coil doors!!!!! Each unit has electric and is fully divided by actual walls not wire.
We had around 65k in the project(land not included) Its a poll barn type building.

I have some 20 by 110 self storage buildings that are all steel with coil doors(suck but way cheaper) with the concrete floor are about 30k. Sizes of the units vary drastically on these small units from 5x5 to 12x 20

My bigger units are for boats mainly. works great for me cuz im near a lake. They have an advantage because people with boats or at least most can afford to pay yearly. This is huge. I get 650 a year for them. And its easy because i only have to collect 50 a year.

The smaller units make way more money per size building but is a headache because most of your tenants are **** birds and want to pay monthly for a 5 by 5 which means you are hunting someone down for......wait for it.........15 dollars! Talk about feel like an idiot. But I guess that is part of it.

You will figure it out on your own but if all goes well and you have no problems it is fairly easy to get the buildings paid for in 7 years. That's borrowing 100percent. Minus the land.

you should be able to get your building put up for somewhere around 15 dollars per sq foot for an all metal building with a concrete pad.
Or 8 dollars psft for a poll barn type building with gravel. All providing you don't need tons of excavation work and things of that nature.
 

T Town Tommy

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I am personally invested long term in Stratasys and AMD, but I really would invest alot more in the 3D printing industry if I had the funds(broke college student). Stratasys, to me, seems like it will be the long term winner in the 3D printing race, but really most investments in 3D printing companies will yield major returns 5+ years from now.

I could go on and on about what incredible revolutionary possibilities this technology is capable of and how important it will be to the long term economic recovery of the nation, but I doubt most people want to hear page after page of my ramblings when some good Googling would do the trick. I will say this though, if anyone on here is actively investing their own money in the stock market then I would seriously look into the 3D printing industry as a whole. There is some amazing technology coming out of there (creating whole fully-functioning electronic devices in one single location using the same machine in a matter of hours based entirely on a 3D model, printing fully functioning organs of any blood type, etc), and this is something that will completely revolutionize the way the entire manufacturing industry operates so if getting in on the ground floor of something like that seems appealing to you then look no further.

I have a decent amount invested with Stratasys as well. The long term growth potential could be record breaking. Investing in 3D technology is not for the faint of heart but if the technology takes off it truly will change how things in the world are made. Luckily I am in a position to have some means to take that chance. I am in for the long haul and time will tell if 3D is the next big thing. For the record, I do have my regular retirement accounts invested in less riskier investments. The Stratasys investment is more speculative investments on my part.
 

Irish Insanity

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Flip the crap out of them. Sounds like tying money up in rental properties is a lot less lucrative. If you are able to double your money in six months you do that and spend your time finding the same opportunity, not handholding tenants. Besides, I would want to stay liquid for the next opportunity. Cash is king when buying distressed properties. Next in line is the knowledge and skill to renovate on your own back.

I can see how the opportunity might be there in Michigan. I would be worried about tenants being able to pay the rent though with the crummy local economy. Selling passes that risk onto others.

Thats pretty much the line of logic my GF uses when we discus it. I took the initial approach that since its all paid for, it would be a secure spot for our investment to sit, yet still earn the amount of rent per month as profit. But there is a lot more risk that way, and you really never know what your yearly expenses to hold the property will be. Obviously taxes and insurance, but any mechanical issues will also add to those expenses, and the cost to 'flip' it from one tenant to the next if necessary.
 

BobD

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Here we go with Twitter. Wish me luck

From the gambling fund.

I'm not generally a buy and hold guy on tech stocks. If it pops I'm out, if it drops I'll buy a little more to cost average then sell when I'm in the black.

I didn't buy Facebook until it was down to 19, so I am holding that for a bit.


Update: GREAT pop indications from the initial allocation price, he's already setting up my exit when trades start happening :) Now we'll let it drop over the next few months and then maybe buy some to hold.
 
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WakeUpEchoes

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Twitter up 92%. I have a feeling retail investors are about to get eaten alive by shorters.
 

Canuck

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I have a hard time valueing Twitter at $25 billion plus considering they haven't made any profit in the last seven years. Good for you on the investment. I try to stick to investing instead of gambling.
 
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Cackalacky

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I have a decent amount invested with Stratasys as well. The long term growth potential could be record breaking. Investing in 3D technology is not for the faint of heart but if the technology takes off it truly will change how things in the world are made. Luckily I am in a position to have some means to take that chance. I am in for the long haul and time will tell if 3D is the next big thing. For the record, I do have my regular retirement accounts invested in less riskier investments. The Stratasys investment is more speculative investments on my part.

Applications for 3D printing are limitless. Medical, engineering, construction, IT... so excited from a scientific standpoint but financially, depends on how it gets developed and deployed.
 

pumpdog20

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I'll get in on twitter in about 3 weeks. Love the upside, but waiting for the eventually pullback from today's crazyness.
 

BobD

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Twitter up 92%. I have a feeling retail investors are about to get eaten alive by shorters.

I have a hard time valueing Twitter at $25 billion plus considering they haven't made any profit in the last seven years. Good for you on the investment. I try to stick to investing instead of gambling.

I'll get in on twitter in about 3 weeks. Love the upside, but waiting for the eventually pullback from today's crazyness.

Yep, I'm out and happy with the good luck on that ipo. Now we're gonna watch it pull back......way over valued IMHO.
 

BobD

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DJIA at 16000.

DANGER WILL ROBINSON DANGER!

dangerwillrobinson.gif


I'm dialing back quite a bit.
 

SoIll

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Question for all you big time financial guru's. I do a little investing from time to time, but I have been looking at Under Armour for quite sometime now. I was Waiting for it to drop off a little bit before I invested. Well today it took a massive it. It is currently at 50 a share. What are some of your opinions on going after it now? I feel that UA is gonna go nuts here, especially when the Irish march out in those new unis and all the apparel around. Just curious on some of your takes. Thanks guys
 

SoIll

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Edit: Nevermind they split it. Still would like some of your thoughts. Thanks
 
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