'14 FL WR Isaiah McKenzie ( Georgia ¯\_(ツ)_/¯)

[IrishLax]

Every single player though has to fulfill academic obligations to ultimately gain admission to ND. But in a case where we want him, and he wants to be here, how is that not a verbal commitment, when by definition a verbal commitment is a pledge announcing your desire to attend a school contingent upon acceptance?

If Bo Scarbrough were to want to go to ND right now and offered his pledge, would that be a commitment, knowing he still has work to do in the classroom as well?

EXACTLY!

This has never been an issue for literally dozens of recruits, but because a-hole Loy got called out on it he refuses to use common sense.

 

[CHIDomer9]

It seems the services, in this case 247, are selective when it comes to assessing where players are at in meeting their academic obligations. The inconsistency is unnecessary. If I were Shannon Terry, or any CEO running these recruiting services, I would enact a policy where we list all verbal commitments and do our jobs in keeping fan bases up to date on where each player stands relative to the likelihood of gaining admittance.

No doubt they (247) currently have players listed as verbals that are way behind in meeting the "clearinghouse" or the admissions standards set by the school they've offered their verbal to.

Agreed. For example, some 1-star commit to East Carolina could be failing 4 subjects and have an ACT score of 12, but still be listed as a commit. Why, because nobody gives a rat's *** about 1-star commit to East Carolina, therefore no one is really concerned about were he goes.

 

[Emcee77]

Every single player though has to fulfill academic obligations to ultimately gain admission to ND. But in a case where we want him, and he wants to be here, how is that not a verbal commitment, when by definition a verbal commitment is a pledge announcing your desire to attend a school contingent upon acceptance?

If Bo Scarbrough were to want to go to ND right now and offered his pledge, would that be a commitment, knowing he still has work to do in the classroom as well?

Right, I just don't get why they won't put him on the list for now. A verbal commitment is never binding on anybody. All it means, if it means anything, is that the school can (informally) count on the player choosing that school over others and the player can count on having a place on that school's team next season, assuming he can get into the school academically. If McKenzie can't get a qualifying score, then the staff will tell him that he no longer has an offer that he can accept on NSD. I don't see why that should prevent him from being considered "verbally committed" right now. He's "committing" to us by telling us that we can count on him being at ND next year as long as we still want him. There's really no other way to look at it it, unless you want the term "verbal commitment" to mean something entirely different from the plain English.

 

[IrishLax]

Right, I just don't get why they won't put him on the list for now. A verbal commitment is never binding on anybody. All it means, if it means anything, is that the school can (informally) count on the player attending that school and the player can count on having a place on that school's team next season. If McKenzie can't get a qualifying score, then the staff will tell him that he no longer has an offer that he can accept on NSD. I don't see why that should prevent him from being considered "verbally committed" right now. He's "committing" to us by telling us that we can count on him being at ND next year as long as we still want him. There's really no other way to look at it it, unless you want the term "verbal commitment" to mean something entirely different from the plain English.

There are hundreds of prospects every year with bad academics that get added to the list of verbals for FBS schools.

Why not McKenzie? Because Loy is a tool.

 

[Luckylucci]

Isn't this the same thing that Sapp did with Jamel James last year? We offered, he committed, and the staff wasn't prepared to accept his commitment right away due to having to check his transcripts further.

 

[Emcee77]

Isn't this the same thing that Sapp did with Jamel James last year? We offered, he committed, and the staff wasn't prepared to accept his commitment right away due to having to check his transcripts further.

Yeah, I said the same thing in the 247 thread. I'm not sure we have Loy to blame for this; BGI was doing similar stuff before he got there, as with James. It might come from above Loy.

 

[PANDFAN]

Isn't this the same thing that Sapp did with Jamel James last year? We offered, he committed, and the staff wasn't prepared to accept his commitment right away due to having to check his transcripts further.

i think james' situation is very different though, he came out of left field, never visited nothing and services didn't even list him w/ offer or interest ....idk if ND had much if any contact, plan laid out etc

 

[Luckylucci]

Yeah, I said the same thing in the 247 thread. I'm not sure we have Loy to blame for this; BGI was doing similar stuff before he got there, as with James. It might come from above Loy.

Loy is obviously weak sauce but II is taking the same approach to Mckenzie's commitment.

 

[Cackalacky]

So I am guessing IM did not get a good SAT score?

 

[rtrn2glory]

Loy is obviously weak sauce but II is taking the same approach to Mckenzie's commitment.

wow they literally just took him off the commitment page...i saw him on their this morning.

that's VERY interesting.

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

Isn't this the same thing that Sapp did with Jamel James last year? We offered, he committed, and the staff wasn't prepared to accept his commitment right away due to having to check his transcripts further.

There is a crucial distinction here, I think. Is Loy reporting that the staff won't accept this commitment?

 

[rtrn2glory]

Isaiah McKenzie breaks down ND decision - Rivals.com Video

he went from a commitment to having high interest on his profile page.

this is far from over and beyond Loy not willing to break the news.

 

[IrishLax]

Isn't this the same thing that Sapp did with Jamel James last year? We offered, he committed, and the staff wasn't prepared to accept his commitment right away due to having to check his transcripts further.

But that was different because the commitment came out of nowhere and the staff wasn't sure if they wanted him as a prospect, academics aside. Jamel James is more comparable to Brandon Dawkins trying to commit to ND this year and the coaches being like "ehhhhhh.... no" instead of "ehhhhh.... yes."

If you believe that the staff was willing to accept McKenzie contingent on academics, it's more similar to the myriad of potential non-qualifiers that sign with SEC schools and then don't get accepted because their scores are too low. They're always listed as a "commit."

I don't think anyone contests that McKenzie could easily not end up as part of the class and has work to do. The fact that he isn't "accepted" and still needs to hash things out indicates he probably didn't get a great score and maybe needs to take it again.

Everyone is contesting Loy not listing him as a commit when there is mutual interest simply because his academic house isn't in order.

 

[IrishLax]

So I am guessing IM did not get a good SAT score?

Loy is obviously weak sauce but II is taking the same approach to Mckenzie's commitment.

Seems to indicate that he didn't get a good enough score. Still doesn't get to the core of the issue with not listing a verbal just because someone has questionable academics.

 

[Luckylucci]

II is reporting the same thing, this isn't Loy just making sh!t up. Its not difficult to understand. Sorry, Lax but somebody that these writers consider sources is telling them this.

 

[IrishLax]

There is a crucial distinction here, I think. Is Loy reporting that the staff won't accept this commitment?

"Sources have told us that he has not met the necessary academic requirements to get into Notre Dame, but he will have a few opportunities to do so. A plan is in place for him to improve academically and he has the time to do just that.

McKenzie remains adamant about attending school in South Bend and he continues to have a great relationship with the Notre Dame coaching staff and running backs coach Tony Alford, in particular.

Notre Dame will host Navy on November 2 and McKenzie will take an official visit that weekend and spend a few days on campus. He and the staff will discuss the situation more in-depth that weekend, as both parties want this situation to work out with McKenzie improving academically, signing his letter-of-intent for the Irish in February and enrolling next summer."

Is what Loy is reporting. I'm assuming that's accurate and he didn't get a good enough score.

Not listing someone as a verbal because you're banking on him getting a bad score is ludicrous though. And if you approached every recruit how Loy did McKenzie, you'd be able to accept basically zero summer commits from '15s and have to remove dozens of '14 commits with bad scores.

 

[IrishLax]

II is reporting the same thing, this isn't Loy just making sh!t up. Its not difficult to understand. Sorry, Lax but somebody that these writers consider sources is telling them this.

See, this isn't what I'm saying. Everyone from the beginning has said that he could easily not end up as part of the class if the scores/academics don't turn out well.

What right does someone have to say "both sides have mutual interest, but he has work to do, so we won't list the verbal."

A verbal is nothing. They list verbals all the time for kids who don't have their ducks in a row. Hell, they list verbals for kids who are sometimes a year+ away from event taking an SAT/ACT.

Verbal != qualification.

 

[IrishLax]

For example, if you go back to Jamel James last year, he was in a worse boat than McKenzie and they listed his commitment with just a disclaimer of "well, he has academics that still need to get worked out..."

They did the same thing for Perkins who had tons of work left to do. They do the same thing for hundreds for hundreds of commits.

Loy doubled-down on him not getting a good test score and he was right and he's refusing to list him until he's qualified for ND. That's just not consistent.

 

[Emcee77]

Not listing someone as a verbal because you're banking on him getting a bad score is ludicrous though. And if you approached every recruit how Loy did McKenzie, you'd be able to accept basically zero summer commits from '15s and have to remove dozens of '14 commits with bad scores.

That's a great point. I doubt Martini had a test score when he committed. It was what, July of 2012? Summer before his junior year? No way he had a test score. But nobody was saying we couldn't accept his commitment. It just doesn't make sense that they won't list McKenzie as a verbal.

 

[Luckylucci]

I feel very confident saying this. Someone on ND's staff has told II and BGI that they aren't going to be accepting his verbal until he's qualified. This isn't a recruiting service conspiracy if you want to be pissed be pissed at the staff because more than likely they are the one relaying this info to the sites.

 

[rtrn2glory]

I feel very confident saying this. Someone on ND's staff has told II and BGI that they aren't going to be accepting his verbal until he's qualified. This isn't a recruiting service conspiracy if you want to be pissed be pissed at the staff because more than likely they are the one relaying this info to the sites.

Agreed...basically what they're saying i think is that we'd love to have you if you can qualify. but at the same time we aren't willing to reserve your spot in this class if you do not qualify. were this an elite prospect things may be different, but right now mckenzie is at a position where we are pretty comfortable at and he said countless times he will be at ND if he can qualify. staff has all the power here and it appears that they know it. hopefully he can get things figured out so he can end up where he wants to be.

 

[IrishLax]

Agreed...basically what they're saying i think is that we'd love to have you if you can qualify. but at the same time we aren't willing to reserve your spot in this class if you do not qualify. were this an elite prospect things may be different, but right now mckenzie is at a position where we are pretty comfortable at and he said countless times he will be at ND if he can qualify. staff has all the power here and it appears that they know it. hopefully he can get things figured out so he can end up where he wants to be.

That's my take, but how is that not a verbal commitment? He's still pledging to be part of the class, and the staff is saying "we'll take you if we can."

We're getting bogged down in the terminology of something that doesn't actually exist. The "verbal commitment" isn't a real thing with a definition. II and 24/7 are choosing not to list him despite mutual interest because he is not qualified, and doesn't have a seat on the train reserved. At every SEC school, this same thing goes on but the kids still get listed as "verbals" (i.e. nothing more than "I currently want to attend school X") while the situation sorts itself out.

I just think it's total crap that 24/7 didn't list him pending a test score because, as I said, they never apply that rule to anyone else.

 

[PANDFAN]

That's my take, but how is that not a verbal commitment? He's still pledging to be part of the class, and the staff is saying "we'll take you if we can."

We're getting bogged down in the terminology of something that doesn't actually exist. The "verbal commitment" isn't a real thing with a definition. II and 24/7 are choosing not to list him despite mutual interest because he is not qualified, and doesn't have a seat on the train reserved. At every SEC school, this same thing goes on but the kids still get listed as "verbals" (i.e. nothing more than "I currently want to attend school X") while the situation sorts itself out.

I just think it's total crap that 24/7 didn't list him pending a test score because, as I said, they never apply that rule to anyone else.

to further this...look at Muhammad from last year...he verbaled to UM and was listed as a commit....but heck almost couldn't even qualify even after signing loi

 

[IrishLax]

This is what Mike Frank had to say on it:

"Christian said that McKenzie's commitment and entry to ND, as with everyone else, is dependent on him qualifying for ND. As we've said, he hasn't gotten his test score to qualify for ND yet. Not sure what his score was, but he just took the test for the first time recently and why he couldn't visit ND.

But, like everyone else, he needs to qualify to get into ND. Until he does that, his commitment means nothing. He's not the only one ND is recruiting who isn't qualified for ND at this point. THere are a number of them."

This is basically my philosophy. If both sides want each other, and the hold up is academics, how is that not a verbal? If you didn't list every single kid who was still working to qualify you've be taking off literally hundreds of verbals across the FBS. It's just woefully inconsistent.

 

[IrishLax]

to further this...look at Muhammad from last year...he verbaled to UM and was listed as a commit....but heck almost couldn't even qualify even after signing loi

Yup. There are tons of kids who don't even meet NCAA minimums until the summer after their senior year. Or don't end up qualifying at all.

That has never, ever stopped someone from being listed as a "verbal" when there is interest on both sides.

 

[rtrn2glory]

going to have to agree to disagree with them dude. i TOTALLY see your take here. i don't think either of you are wrong, but i think neither one of you will admit to the other sides position either.

 

[Cackalacky]

This is what Mike Frank had to say on it:

"Christian said that McKenzie's commitment and entry to ND, as with everyone else, is dependent on him qualifying for ND. As we've said, he hasn't gotten his test score to qualify for ND yet. Not sure what his score was, but he just took the test for the first time recently and why he couldn't visit ND.

But, like everyone else, he needs to qualify to get into ND. Until he does that, his commitment means nothing. He's not the only one ND is recruiting who isn't qualified for ND at this point. THere are a number of them."

This is basically my philosophy. If both sides want each other, and the hold up is academics, how is that not a verbal? If you didn't list every single kid who was still working to qualify you've be taking off literally hundreds of verbals across the FBS. It's just woefully inconsistent.

Any reasons to be worried about our committed guys or does he mean uncommitted targets?

 

[NDinL.A.]

Any reasons to be worried about our committed guys or does he mean uncommitted targets?

This happens every year bro. Kids have work to do and they almost always get 'er done. But you have times when they don't/can't. That's when you have kids 'de-commit', like a Perkins and James or even a Mattingly from what I hear.

I wouldn't worry about it...

 

[IrishLax]

Any reasons to be worried about our committed guys or does he mean uncommitted targets?

I mean, there is always reason to be worried. Everyone still has a half a year left to go in school. It is what it is, and since Kelly has been coaching here there have been a couple borderline guys each year that have had serious questions about qualification. Some work out (Davaris Daniels), some don't (just about everyone else).

That has never stopped them from being listed as a verbal pledge to attend ND though in the meantime.

 

[Cackalacky]

This happens every year bro. Kids have work to do and they almost always get 'er done. But you have times when they don't/can't. That's when you have kids 'de-commit', like a Perkins and James or even a Mattingly from what I hear.

I wouldn't worry about it...

I mean, there is always reason to be worried. Everyone still has a half a year left to go in school. It is what it is, and since Kelly has been coaching here there have been a couple borderline guys each year that have had serious questions about qualification. Some work out (Davaris Daniels), some don't (just about everyone else).

That has never stopped them from being listed as a verbal pledge to attend ND though in the meantime.

Yes...truth. I know now why I don't get too invested until after the players are at ND for a few years. Saves me from several meltdowns every year.