Chuck Martin has no idea what he is doing

[chicago51]

Not sure the point of this thread was either. I will say ND scored more points than they did against Michigan and Purdue last year.

 

[NDPhilly]

Hopefully Jeff Quinn gets fires at Buffalo after this year. Have wanted him for the last 4 years.

 

[irishff1014]

The team is averaging ~30(29.7) points per game. I think Martin has a clue. Is he a polished play caller? Of course not, but he is obviously qualified. And perhaps Kelly's plan, all along, has been to have Martin call plays against the part of the schedule that the team can beat even if the play caller makes some rookie mistakes, and then take over the play calling against the meatier part of the schedule? Or maybe he is just mentoring Martin into calling the plays? Either way, I trust Kelly's ability to evaluate his coaches' competence way more than anyone on here.

There has been ZERO improvement in this team in either week yet. In the last 2 weeks we have had to depend on Rees to throw the ball a lot to come back in the games. I do believe it is time to scale back on letting Rees check out of the run so much. I do believe that he does hurt us a little by check out so much. We are getting Good play fro m the QB position but the coaching isn't good and you can see that buy some of the playing calling.

 

[kmoose]

There has been ZERO improvement in this team in either week yet. In the last 2 weeks we have had to depend on Rees to throw the ball a lot to come back in the games. I do believe it is time to scale back on letting Rees check out of the run so much. I do believe that he does hurt us a little by check out so much. We are getting Good play fro m the QB position but the coaching isn't good and you can see that buy some of the playing calling.

If I'm not mistaken, this is the first time that Martin has called plays at DI-A. Of course there are going to be some head scratchers. I don't think that Rees is Len Dawson out there, calling his own plays. I'm pretty sure that the checks that he makes have specific limitations; a run called and the defense has 9 guys in the box? Check to the pass. Pass play called and the LBs are ALL showing that they will drop off into zone coverage at the snap? Check into a run.

What no one has mentioned yet, is that Purdue's front 7 actually played very well, especially in the first half! Purdue has some kids that can play, too, ya know?

 

[irishff1014]

If I'm not mistaken, this is the first time that Martin has called plays at DI-A. Of course there are going to be some head scratchers. I don't think that Rees is Len Dawson out there, calling his own plays. I'm pretty sure that the checks that he makes have specific limitations; a run called and the defense has 9 guys in the box? Check to the pass. Pass play called and the LBs are ALL showing that they will drop off into zone coverage at the snap? Check into a run.

What no one has mentioned yet, is that Purdue's front 7 actually played very well, especially in the first half! Purdue has some kids that can play, too, ya know?

Another fan making excuses for this team. That's the problem everyone wants to make excuses this team isn't coached well nor playing well.

 

[kmoose]

Another fan making excuses for this team. That's the problem everyone wants to make excuses this team isn't coached well nor playing well.

Another knee jerk reaction to a WIN that some guy on his couch thinks wasn't good enough. I don't have to make excuses for anyone; I have ZERO impact on who is coaching the team, or playing for the team. But I haven't allowed myself to think that, just because we had a great year last year, we have suddenly become the Packers of the 60s, or the Monsters of the Midway; so I'm not out-of-my-head-pi$$ed-off. I've offered plenty of opinion about where we need to get better. But some people appear to want to scrap the entire program, over a win.

 

[IrishLax]

The team is averaging ~30(29.7) points per game. I think Martin has a clue. Is he a polished play caller? Of course not, but he is obviously qualified. And perhaps Kelly's plan, all along, has been to have Martin call plays against the part of the schedule that the team can beat even if the play caller makes some rookie mistakes, and then take over the play calling against the meatier part of the schedule? Or maybe he is just mentoring Martin into calling the plays? Either way, I trust Kelly's ability to evaluate his coaches' competence way more than anyone on here.

Yeah, except it's not... it's averaging 25 a game if you take out defensive TDs and that's middle of the pack AT BEST. Kelly took over play calling in the second half, and the offense was better.

It's obvious to anyone watching the games that the lack of creativity in the play calling is a HUGE issue. We need a real OC who is willing to take some chances.

 

[kmoose]

Yeah, except it's not... it's averaging 25 a game if you take out defensive TDs and that's middle of the pack AT BEST. Kelly took over play calling in the second half, and the offense was better.

It's obvious to anyone watching the games that the lack of creativity in the play calling is a HUGE issue. We need a real OC who is willing to take some chances.

Middle of the pack before or after you sift out all of the other teams' defensive/special teams scores?

400 yards, 24 points, 11 of 16 on 3rd down: I think the offense is the least of our worries.

 

[irishff1014]

Another knee jerk reaction to a WIN that some guy on his couch thinks wasn't good enough. I don't have to make excuses for anyone; I have ZERO impact on who is coaching the team, or playing for the team. But I haven't allowed myself to think that, just because we had a great year last year, we have suddenly become the Packers of the 60s, or the Monsters of the Midway; so I'm not out-of-my-head-pi$$ed-off. I've offered plenty of opinion about where we need to get better. But some people appear to want to scrap the entire program, over a win.

I don't want to scrap entire program. I want to see this talented team play to a talented level at which they aren't doing right now.

 

[kmoose]

I don't want to scrap entire program. I want to see this talented team play to a talented level at which they aren't doing right now.

I suggest you send your resume to Coach Kelly, then.

 

[IrishLax]

Middle of the pack before or after you sift out all of the other teams' defensive/special teams scores?

400 yards, 24 points, 11 of 16 on 3rd down: I think the offense is the least of our worries.

29.7 PPG (against generally bad defenses too) is 66th out of 125... so middle of the pack already, even with defensive TDs. It's not good.

There is nothing holding this offense back but a lack of offensive identity/bad play calling. Whenever we get aggressive, or use any kind of play fake or deception, we have receivers wide open and big plays. Either that, or put multiple TEs on the field and run the ball hard. The coaches need to choose how this team is going to dictate to opponents instead of always letting the opponents dictate to us and having Tommy check into the exact play they want.

 

[kmoose]

29.7 PPG (against generally bad defenses too) is 66th out of 125... so middle of the pack already, even with defensive TDs. It's not good.

There is nothing holding this offense back but a lack of offensive identity/bad play calling. Whenever we get aggressive, or use any kind of play fake or deception, we have receivers wide open and big plays. Either that, or put multiple TEs on the field and run the ball hard. The coaches need to choose how this team is going to dictate to opponents instead of always letting the opponents dictate to us and having Tommy check into the exact play they want.

I've got to get to work, so I will leave it on this note:

The reason that the play fake works is because you spend the time calling the "unimaginative" run after run after run. This is not an NFL, or SEC, team; the coaches don't have hour upon hour upon hour to install complex schemes during the week. In the NFL, they do. And I seriously doubt that the SEC, B1G, or most conferences really pay much attention to the limits on practice time through the week. We KNOW Rich Rodriguez doesn't. The point is not that the offense is GOOD, but that it is good enough! Chuck Martin's first few games calling plays against DI-A teams is not a very good sample, to base conclusions on. I'm sure he will get better, and the offense will improve. While that is happening, let's not act like the offense is BAD.

 

[notredomer23]

We're just running a vanilla offense so we don't show Stanford anything.

 

[irishog77]

We're just running a vanilla offense so we don't show Stanford anything.

Texas next year. Gotta keep your eye on the future.

 

[BurningRiver]

Is it true that Kelly took over play-calling in the second half or are you fellas just speculating?

 

[irishfan]

1) Said this before, but about 90% of the time that Daniel Smith is in the slot, its a quick screen that way.

2) Everytime a RB gets motioned into the backfield and does his stepping in place routine before the snap, its a run play.

3) Niklas in the slot=screen that way

4) Pistol with 2 TEs to the same side=run off tackle that way

I don't know much about football, but its getting to the point where I can call our plays about 50% of the time. No wonder Saban shut us down with a month to prepare last year.

 

[irishff1014]

Is it true that Kelly took over play-calling in the second half or are you fellas just speculating?

I haven't heard that. Where did you see that at sir?

 

[IrishLax]

1) Said this before, but about 90% of the time that Daniel Smith is in the slot, its a quick screen that way.

2) Everytime a RB gets motioned into the backfield and does his stepping in place routine before the snap, its a run play.

3) Niklas in the slot=screen that way

4) Pistol with 2 TEs to the same side=run off tackle that way

I don't know much about football, but its getting to the point where I can call our plays about 50% of the time. No wonder Saban shut us down with a month to prepare last year.

THIS!!!! I was able to call the play we were going to run to the letter for 8 first half plays in a row last night. This includes checks... god, the checks are even more obvious than the alignments sometimes. If I can do that... someone who knows jack **** about football... you better believe their defenders can do it.

Stop. Telegraphing. The. Plays.

 

[IrishLax]

Is it true that Kelly took over play-calling in the second half or are you fellas just speculating?

Yes, he did. He had the playsheet and was calling stuff in.

 

[BurningRiver]

Yes, he did. He had the playsheet and was calling stuff in.

That's interesting. Play-calling improved DRAMATICALLY in the second half

 

[irishff1014]

That's interesting. Play-calling improved DRAMATICALLY in the second half

But couldn't kelly over ride what ever play Martin was calling?

 

[irishfan]

THIS!!!! I was able to call the play we were going to run to the letter for 8 first half plays in a row last night. This includes checks... god, the checks are even more obvious than the alignments sometimes. If I can do that... someone who knows jack **** about football... you better believe their defenders can do it.

Stop. Telegraphing. The. Plays.

Best was the first play of the 2nd half when we had Niklas stacked in front of Daniels to the left, and I said to the 3 other ppl I was watching the game with "they wouldn't be dumb enough to throw a quick screen here to the left, right?" and then of course they do it for a 2 yard loss.

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

THIS!!!! I was able to call the play we were going to run to the letter for 8 first half plays in a row last night. This includes checks... god, the checks are even more obvious than the alignments sometimes. If I can do that... someone who knows jack **** about football... you better believe their defenders can do it.

Stop. Telegraphing. The. Plays.

Also, Purdue was showing one front and switching during the audible which led to them absolutely burying a number of run plays. It's not that the play calling itself was necessarily predictable but Purdue, by showing certain fronts, were able to dictate the audibles in a predictable fashion and get a play they expected to see. I know pre-snap recognition is one of Tommy's strengths but if he is always trying to get ND into the perfect play it becomes predictable. I think this was true with Michigan and especially true last night.

I trust the staff is going to find some way to counter this tendency.

 

[NDWorld247]

Yes, he did. He had the playsheet and was calling stuff in.

Doesn't Kelly always have the play sheet and call stuff in?

But couldn't kelly over ride what ever play Martin was calling?

As much as I want to place all of the blame on Martin, Kelly's hands aren't clean in this. He's in constant communication with Martin telling him what he wants and nothing gets called without Kelly's sign off. I've been in this situation and it can be awkward. It's your classic "too many cooks in the kitchen" scenario. It's much better when the play caller has complete control.

The problem with the play calling is the predictability of the personnel packages and formations. Martin and Kelly are both to blame for this.

 

[irishff1014]

Doesn't Kelly always have the play sheet and call stuff in?



As much as I want to place all of the blame on Martin, Kelly's hands aren't clean in this. He's in constant communication with Martin telling him what he wants and nothing gets called without Kelly's sign off. I've been in this situation and it can be awkward. It's your classic "too many cooks in the kitchen" scenario. It's much better when the play caller has complete control.

The problem with the play calling is the predictability of the personnel packages and formations. Martin and Kelly are both to blame for this.

Thanks that's what pretty much my thought as well

 

[Honey Nut Irish]

It worry that Martin has too much experience with Kelly's offense. I think ND would be better served with someone who isn't familiar with Kelly's system.

If ND had an offensive coordinator with spread experience under a different program that might give Kelly some fresh ideas and provide a different perspective. I don't care who calls the plays. I just want to see someone who can bring some constructive criticism to the program like Belichick did.

Kelly seems more willing to blame poor execution than take a look at the play calls themselves.

 

[Kak7304]

Two words: Gus Malzahn.

 

[Rack Em]

Bring back Charlie Molnar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[stlnd01]

1) Said this before, but about 90% of the time that Daniel Smith is in the slot, its a quick screen that way.

2) Everytime a RB gets motioned into the backfield and does his stepping in place routine before the snap, its a run play.

3) Niklas in the slot=screen that way

4) Pistol with 2 TEs to the same side=run off tackle that way

I don't know much about football, but its getting to the point where I can call our plays about 50% of the time. No wonder Saban shut us down with a month to prepare last year.

Yes. We are telegraphing too much with formation and personnel. I think it's partly an odd outgrowth of our unusual depth - and resulting specialization - at both WR and RB. But it need to stop.

 

[Kak7304]

1) Said this before, but about 90% of the time that Daniel Smith is in the slot, its a quick screen that way.

2) Everytime a RB gets motioned into the backfield and does his stepping in place routine before the snap, its a run play.

3) Niklas in the slot=screen that way

4) Pistol with 2 TEs to the same side=run off tackle that way

I don't know much about football, but its getting to the point where I can call our plays about 50% of the time. No wonder Saban shut us down with a month to prepare last year.

The other 10% is a run his way. I hope we have a stalk-and-go in place for him in case other teams actually notice this.