George Zimmerman Trial

[ACamp1900]

If someone is punching me and slamming my head into a concrete sidewalk and reaching for my gun and telling me that I'm going to die (Zimmerman's story), I'm almost certainly justified in using deadly force against him.

Here is something that disturbs me about this... I have heard people imply and flat out state (media, random converstaions I have had and even on messages boards like IE, in fact maybe even here if I look back into it) that according to them, even IF the bolded is what happened, GZ should go to prison for murder... as if there is no grounds to use deadly force anymore.

If that's where this country is headed, that scares me...

again, before anyone jumps on me I am not saying that's what happened... just that some seem to be of the opinion that even if that's how it went down it doesn't matter.

 

[Cackalacky]

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[ACamp1900]

This might require more thought and time than I am willing to spend for a message board honestly, but here are my first thoughts anyway... Think you take things on a case by case... and guns in high schools is not something I'm on board with... Just generally speaking if someone attacks another and is shouting "I'm going to kill you" the person being attacked should have the ability to defend themselves however possible...

 

[Cackalacky]

Cack, Emcee, you are both correct. It was a tragic incident. I guess i am just a lil annoyed with it on the news constantly down here. You are both correct and I did miss the point Cack. Apologies.

Don't apologize. I would be annoyed too. At least Nacy Grace gets to keep her job and unveil a new hair do. I hear she has a new look:

Blue Steel:

 

[jmurphy75]

The tragedy is that Martin is dead ... if you believe that Martin wouldn't have really killed Zimmerman (as ACamp pointed out, we don't know that for sure and never will), nobody needed to die.

That's not to say that Zimmerman should go to jail for murder. If someone is punching me and slamming my head into a concrete sidewalk and reaching for my gun and telling me that I'm going to die (Zimmerman's story), I'm almost certainly justified in using deadly force against him.

But would Martin have really killed Zimmerman, if neither man was armed? I just find it hard to believe. That's the tragedy.

Would Martin have killed GZ? Maybe maybe not but should he wait to find out? So maybe he wouldn't have killed him since you find it hard to believe, maybe he just causes serious head injury? Is that ok, does GZ have a right to defend himself from that?

 

[Cackalacky]

Would Martin have killed GZ? Maybe maybe not but should he wait to find out? So maybe he wouldn't have killed him since you find it hard to believe, maybe he just causes serious head injury? Is that ok, does GZ have a right to defend himself from that?

Did GZ have to leave his car after the 911 responder told him not too and he did anyway?

 

[jmurphy75]

Cack, Emcee, you are both correct. It was a tragic incident. I guess i am just a lil annoyed with it on the news constantly down here. You are both correct and I did miss the point Cack. Apologies.

Domer isn't it ridiculous? I'm SO tired of hearing about this, at least it will be over soon. This will not be another Casey Anthony trial, the jury selection will have taken longer than the trial last.

 

[jmurphy75]

Did GZ have to leave his car after the 911 responder told him not too and he did anyway?

Since when is that against the law? He had every right to follow TM his intent was to follow until the police arrived. Last I checked that was legal especially in my own neighborhood.

 

[Cackalacky]

Since when is that against the law? He had every right to follow TM his intent was to follow until the police arrived. Last I checked that was legal especially in my own neighborhood.

I did not say it was against the law. He made a choice to get out of his car. He also disobeyed the request of the 911 responder, which is not illegal. He did not have to get out of his car. He chose to. That to me says he made a decision that was going to end in a confrontation or at a minimum exacerbate whatever the situation was at that time. It is clear to me that he was not worried about self-defense at this point.

If you choose to follow someone with the intent of discovering what they are doing, you might find trouble.

 

[goldandblue]

Delete this post

 

[Irish Houstonian]

Since when is that against the law? He had every right to follow TM his intent was to follow until the police arrived. Last I checked that was legal especially in my own neighborhood.

Even further, the fact that he called 911 *at all* is evidence that he didn't intend on assaulting the kid. Nobody calls the cops before the beat or shoot someone.

 

[Cackalacky]

Even further, the fact that he called 911 *at all* is evidence that he didn't intend on assaulting the kid. Nobody calls the cops before the beat or shoot someone.

They asked him to stop. He apparently did. Until the phone call ended. Then they met up again later and Martin was dead. I disagree with the way you framed it. He could have called out of good intentions or to get it on record. But what happened afterwards is a matter of choice and they confronted each other. It's not as simple as you make it.

 

[WestCoast]

Did you guys solve the case yet?

 

[FLDomer]

Domer isn't it ridiculous? I'm SO tired of hearing about this, at least it will be over soon. This will not be another Casey Anthony trial, the jury selection will have taken longer than the trial last.

So Mother ****en ridiculous! But in this case I have to say I think the defendant is innocent of the charges, unlike that **** Casey Anthony....but that's just IMHO

 

[magogian]

If you choose to follow someone with the intent of discovering what they are doing, you might find trouble.

You're right. Better to look the other way.

 

[Cackalacky]

You're right. Better to look the other way.

That is not what I meant and you know it.

 

[BGIF]

...
If you choose to follow someone with the intent of discovering what they are doing, you might find trouble.

It's called Neighborhood WATCH for what should be an intuitively obvious reason.


My neighbors and I have led to 3 arrests for drug deals in the streets of our neighborhood. There was no racial profiling we saw cars where they shouldn't be. We didn't know who was inside. Turned out they were all white. Our goal is to prevent crime. We saw something suspicious and we called the police.



I don't know about you but if soeeone was following me while I was out walking there would not have been a confrontation. I would not have felt disrepected and confronted him because he was eyeballing me from a distance. I would not have turned around and followed him while talking to my girl friend. I would have gone on to my destination.

I gather you would have turned back and gone after the eyeballer. Who would have been the one looking for trouble?

 

[BGIF]

There is one person though that won't be able to testify.....and that is a tragedy.

It was a tragedy that the Menendez brothers were orphans according to their lawyer.

They brought that on themselves, didn't they.


It's yet to be determined in court who attacked who in this case, who started the violence, and whether deadly force was necessary to save one life from being taken, taking another in the process.

 

[Corry]

At a minimum GZ is an irresponsible gun owner, at most he's a murderer. When you take the counseled carry class they plainly tell you, if you're armed you do everything you can to avoid trouble. He clearly sought trouble out.

 

[Andy in Sactown]

So, a little bit of levity to an otherwise very serious thread; I didn't immediately recognise the name George Zimmerman as being the stand your ground, Florida shooter. Heck, I'd of recalled Treyvon Martin's name instantly, but I digress.. so I proceeded to google George Zimmerman. Boy was I shocked to see the former President and CEO of Men's Wearhouse! I read his entire wikipedia entry all the while thinking, "oh no, what did he do?!?!?" Seeing nothing about an impending trial on his wiki queued me in that I was off course, but damn was that a wierd five minutes on the internet.

"You're going to like the way you look. I guarantee it."

 

[In Lou I Trust]

So, a little bit of levity to an otherwise very serious thread; I didn't immediately recognise the name George Zimmerman as being the stand your ground, Florida shooter. Heck, I'd of recalled Treyvon Martin's name instantly, but I digress.. so I proceeded to google George Zimmerman. Boy was I shocked to see the former President and CEO of Men's Wearhouse! I read his entire wikipedia entry all the while thinking, "oh no, what did he do?!?!?" Seeing nothing about an impending trial on his wiki queued me in that I was off course, but damn was that a wierd five minutes on the internet.

"You're going to like the way you look. I guarantee it."

He just got fired the other day.

 

[Andy in Sactown]

He just got fired the other day.

Picked that up from the wiki article, yet somehow the egg on my face remains..

 

[jmurphy75]

At a minimum GZ is an irresponsible gun owner, at most he's a murderer. When you take the counseled carry class they plainly tell you, if you're armed you do everything you can to avoid trouble. He clearly sought trouble out.

I'm not sure what classes you took but the several I've been involved in never said anything like that, and I love how everyone assumes that following a stranger in your neighborhood means he was looking for trouble. Please stop, for the love of god GZ was on the phone with 911, if TM was just taking a stroll somewhere he belonged and had no intent on wrong doing why did this end up in an altercation. You can follow someone, you can call theim names, insult their momma and none of that is against the law. The minute you strike someone you have crossed the line, so there it lies who was the physical aggressor? The only way to find this out is forensic evidence and there is no way to fake that. So we'll see when all of the facts come out, it's not what the media puts on TV and unfortunately that is all most people have to go on.

 

[jmurphy75]

So Mother ****en ridiculous! But in this case I have to say I think the defendant is innocent of the charges, unlike that **** Casey Anthony....but that's just IMHO

I'm not sure what is more annoying the news every night or all the people I know from out of state telling me their retarded misinformed opinions based on the info the media has put out.
I agree I think he's innocent, I've been in a worse situation and it happened the one time I wasn't carrying. I understand what it means to be able to defend yourself, some people just don't get it.

 

[Cackalacky]

It's called Neighborhood WATCH for what should be an intuitively obvious reason.

Watch not law enforcement. Whatever happened they confronted each other, that is all i am saying.

My neighbors and I have led to 3 arrests for drug deals in the streets of our neighborhood. There was no racial profiling we saw cars where they shouldn't be. We didn't know who was inside. Turned out they were all white. Our goal is to prevent crime. We saw something suspicious and we called the police.

Awesome. Good for yall. Once again I have never even mentioned race. Did you confront the dealers prsonally or did you let LEOs handle it?

I don't know about you but if soeeone was following me while I was out walking there would not have been a confrontation. I would not have felt disrepected and confronted him because he was eyeballing me from a distance. I would not have turned around and followed him while talking to my girl friend. I would have gone on to my destination.

I also would have attempted to make it to my destination. If I was confronted by the follower, it most certainly would be a different situation than just being followed..

I gather you would have turned back and gone after the eyeballer. Who would have been the one looking for trouble?

I do not like it when people, who know little about me, misrepresent me, I like it even less when people put words in my mouth. I have said nothing in this tread that would indicate anything other than what we know from the published evidence. And yes, I do not know who confronted who after the 911 call. Never claimed anything otherwise. We do know the two confronted each other again and that a man shot a kid. What we don't know is whether GZ confronted TM or if TM went after GZ for following or maybe it was a combination of the two. I don't know.

I have not taken a side, only asked the question, did GZ have to leave his car when the 911 responder asked him to not follow TM?

I want to thank you for reminding me how emotional some people are about things on this site. Lesson reinforced.

 

[Cackalacky]

t

was a tragedy that the Menendez brothers were orphans according to their lawyer.

They brought that on themselves, didn't they.

What? You want to compare the Menendez brothers who were defendants and able to represent themselves to TM who is dead and has a state prosecutor with very few witnesses and little evidence on his side? The court will decide on what "truth" is presented to them. The jury of 6 women has their job cut for them.

It's yet to be determined in court who attacked who in this case, who started the violence, and whether deadly force was necessary to save one life from being taken, taking another in the process.

see my post above. I agree.

 

[jmurphy75]

Watch not law enforcement. Whatever happened they confronted each other, that is all i am saying.


Awesome. Good for yall. Once again I have never even mentioned race. Did you confront the dealers prsonally or did you let LEOs handle it?


I also would have attempted to make it to my destination. If I was confronted by the follower, it most certainly would be a different situation than just being followed..


I do not like it when people, who know little about me, misrepresent me, I like it even less when people put words in my mouth. I have said nothing in this tread that would indicate anything other than what we know from the published evidence. And yes, I do not know who confronted who after the 911 call. Never claimed anything otherwise. We do know the two confronted each other again and that a man shot a kid. What we don't know is whether GZ confronted TM or if TM went after GZ for following or maybe it was a combination of the two. I don't know.

I have not taken a side, only asked the question, did GZ have to leave his car when the 911 responder asked him to not follow TM?

I want to thank you for reminding me how emotional some people are about things on this site. Lesson reinforced.

Just curious as to what difference it makes if GZ had to or decided to leave his car or not?
Also your "man shot a kid" statement sounds just like the media, a 17 year old "kid" like TM is just as capable of bad things as any man. Evidence has been shown of TM's text about drugs, guns, and fighting. As well as being suspended from school for pot, and pics of pot and guns on his FB profile, so your "kid" comment isn't very suitable.

 

[FLDomer]

Just curious as to what difference it makes if GZ had to or decided to leave his car or not?
Also your "man shot a kid" statement sounds just like the media, a 17 year old "kid" like TM is just as capable of bad things as any man. Evidence has been shown of TM's text about drugs, guns, and fighting. As well as being suspended from school for pot, and pics of pot and guns on his FB profile, so your "kid" comment isn't very suitable.

Also the reason TM was in town (I believe his dads house) because he had just got expelled from his school in S FL for drugs....TM was not the angel the media has painted him out to be.

 

[Cackalacky]

Just curious as to what difference it makes if GZ had to or decided to leave his car or not?
Also your "man shot a kid" statement sounds just like the media, a 17 year old "kid" like TM is just as capable of bad things as any man. Evidence has been shown of TM's text about drugs, guns, and fighting. As well as being suspended from school for pot, and pics of pot and guns on his FB profile, so your "kid" comment isn't very suitable.

It makes a hell of lot of difference. For one the physical confrontation never would have taken place. And the kid thing..... Well you may be right. I will use young person from now on. Pot and guns on FB? 95% of my fB friends have guns on their FB photos. And not hunting rifles but semi automatics , tech9s and such. Hell probably 20 of them have something related to drugs/pot, so that is weak justification.

 

[Cackalacky]

Also the reason TM was in town (I believe his dads house) because he had just got expelled from his school in S FL for drugs....TM was not the angel the media has painted him out to be.

And when did I paint him as an angel. What part of " I have not taken any sides" is that hard to understand. The doctor stated he had cannibinoids in his system but they would not have been able to affect his behavior at the levels found.

This is confounding.