'13 CA DT Eddie Vanderdoes (UCLA)

[BGIF]

Nope, just posts about how lame it is to backhand one fully commited player to prop up another wavering megastar.

^

Don't try to turn your head Pat. You've just had you throat deservedly slit with surgical precision.

See The Bard re: hoisted on one's own petard


Reps, Pachuco!

 

[rikkitikki08]

I honestly think its an issue of society changing over the years and our way of pampering our kids too much. This is a much more different world than when I was growing up. But hey, that's just my opinion. I think kids nowadays have a higher sense of entitlement and they are coddled way too much.

I'm 25 and completely agree with this

 

[ThePiombino]

It wasn't a knock on Matuska.

But it was. Whether or not it was your intended end, that's what you did.

 

[CarrollVermin]

Seriously? "bleeding recruits and signed talent"? The coaching staff has put together back-back-to-back Top 20 recruiting classes, including 2 in the Top 10, and we are "bleeding" recruits? I'll take that situation all day, every day!

I think that the list of athletes that ND has lost is pretty extensive and has been covered on here extensively as well. You would have to be quite the homer not to acknowledge that the situation is going on. Lynch, Kiel, Shepard...the list can continue.

Ask me this...when was the last time you heard of a 5 star recruit leave 'Bama or LSU? Just asking to see if the propensity is the same as it has been at ND the last few years. Sure, 'Bama guys leave...but it is usually early as a first round pick in the NFL, which is not the same as a transfer to Cincinnati, or UCLA, or USF.

 

[Chris P. Bacon]

A few notes after watching the nc game again and again...
1. We were star struck and got rattled when two horrendous calls went against us.
2. We were not as big or physical as Alabama, BUT...our technique was the problem. I remember watching Greg Lloyd get demolished by the cowboys ol in the Super Bowl. Was the Eric Williams that much more dominant? No....Lloyd was star struck while Williams had been in his third Super Bowl. We got ran over from the neck up IN THE FIRST HALF. We played even the second half.
3. Our depth was a bigger issue than the size of players on our roster. Especially on the OL.

Call me cooky, but if we stay healthy, we can win it all this year.

Ok I'll call you cooky.

 

[ThePiombino]

I think that the list of athletes that ND has lost is pretty extensive and has been covered on here extensively as well. You would have to be quite the homer not to acknowledge that the situation is going on. Lynch, Kiel, Shepard...the list can continue.

Ask me this...when was the last time you heard of a 5 star recruit leave 'Bama or LSU? Just asking to see if the propensity is the same as it has been at ND the last few years. Sure, 'Bama guys leave...but it is usually early as a first round pick in the NFL, which is not the same as a transfer to Cincinnati, or UCLA, or USF.

Rome wasn't built in a day. ND is still scratching and clawing its way back to the top. We are coming off one outrageous season. Put two or three in-a-row together and you won't see this shits as often. LSU, Bama, etc - they've been at it for a while now, so they have a bit more modern cache to work with. We'll get there. Soon enough, we'll get there.

 

[kmoose]

I think that the list of athletes that ND has lost is pretty extensive and has been covered on here extensively as well. You would have to be quite the homer not to acknowledge that the situation is going on. Lynch, Kiel, Shepard...the list can continue.

Ask me this...when was the last time you heard of a 5 star recruit leave 'Bama or LSU? Just asking to see if the propensity is the same as it has been at ND the last few years. Sure, 'Bama guys leave...but it is usually early as a first round pick in the NFL, which is not the same as a transfer to Cincinnati, or UCLA, or USF.

Notre Dame is not Alabama or LSU. At ND, these guys have to be serious students, as well as football players. Not even a remotely close comparison!

Oh, and the same Kiel guy whose departure is apparently indicative of some kind of problem at ND? He's a recent departure from LSU, pal.

 

[CarrollVermin]

Notre Dame is not Alabama or LSU. At ND, these guys have to be serious students, as well as football players. Not even a remotely close comparison!

Oh, and the same Kiel guy whose departure is apparently indicative of some kind of problem at ND? He's a recent departure from LSU, pal.

Let's not play the academic card...and if you want to play the academic card, then let's look at Stanford and their success. As for Keil, I do believe that he flipped his commitment at the last minute, and did not transfer once he was on campus - a little different situation.

At the end of the day, I really don't care what EV does. His life, play by the rules, and face the consequences of your decision. Still, someone in the athletic department needs to determine why athletes are leaving and start to change something...the strategy, the approach, or the type of athlete that we are tying to sign.

 

[Chris P. Bacon]

I think that the list of athletes that ND has lost is pretty extensive and has been covered on here extensively as well. You would have to be quite the homer not to acknowledge that the situation is going on. Lynch, Kiel, Shepard...the list can continue.

Ask me this...when was the last time you heard of a 5 star recruit leave 'Bama or LSU? Just asking to see if the propensity is the same as it has been at ND the last few years. Sure, 'Bama guys leave...but it is usually early as a first round pick in the NFL, which is not the same as a transfer to Cincinnati, or UCLA, or USF.

The players that get accepted at nd have options to transfer to other prestigious Schools or less prestigious schools. Players that get accepted at bama and lsu don't, so when they transfer its to local community colleges because only the sec has such low standards that those players that do transfer from Alabama and lsu can't get accepted by any other institution. So that's why u don't hear about those transfers.

 

[OCIrish]

While we're on the subject of 5* that have left.....Tee wanted to be here, Kiel, we were his 3rd choice, Lynch committed, then de committed, committed to FSU, only to end up in South Bend, EV was committed to Southern Cal before ND... anybody see a pattern to some of the kids who have left or decided they didn't want to be apart of the program???

 

[CarrollVermin]

Rome wasn't built in a day. ND is still scratching and clawing its way back to the top. We are coming off one outrageous season. Put two or three in-a-row together and you won't see this shits as often. LSU, Bama, etc - they've been at it for a while now, so they have a bit more modern cache to work with. We'll get there. Soon enough, we'll get there.

I do not disagree with you in the least. It is funny to watch the old games from '10, '11 and this last year and not know that we have improved drastically in those years. If we can continue to have 10+ win seasons, then yes, I think the other parts will take care of themselves. Unfortunately, you can be better each year and because of schedule, not have the wins to show for it, which happens from time to time. Still, keep building brick by brick.

 

[irishpat183]

Let's not play the academic card...and if you want to play the academic card, then let's look at Stanford and their success. As for Keil, I do believe that he flipped his commitment at the last minute, and did not transfer once he was on campus - a little different situation.

At the end of the day, I really don't care what EV does. His life, play by the rules, and face the consequences of your decision. Still, someone in the athletic department needs to determine why athletes are leaving and start to change something...the strategy, the approach, or the type of athlete that we are tying to sign.

Which falls on the coaching staff...Like I said.

I agree with you 100%. Something needs to change. I think this is FARRR more damaging than just straight up losing out on a recruit at signing day.

I'd rather lose them then...then get excited only to have the kid pack his bags a few weeks later.

 

[irishpat183]

^

Don't try to turn your head Pat. You've just had you throat deservedly slit with surgical precision.

See The Bard re: hoisted on one's own petard


Reps, Pachuco!

Turn my head?


And getting my internet throat slit is the LEAST of my worries right now. So I'll manage.

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

Ok gentlemen...

 

[kmoose]

Let's not play the academic card...and if you want to play the academic card, then let's look at Stanford and their success. As for Keil, I do believe that he flipped his commitment at the last minute, and did not transfer once he was on campus - a little different situation.

At the end of the day, I really don't care what EV does. His life, play by the rules, and face the consequences of your decision. Still, someone in the athletic department needs to determine why athletes are leaving and start to change something...the strategy, the approach, or the type of athlete that we are tying to sign.

So you want someone to figure out why, but not if it involves academics? Is that what you are saying?

 

[Irish Houstonian]

While we're on the subject of 5* that have left.....Tee wanted to be here, Kiel, we were his 3rd choice, Lynch committed, then de committed, committed to FSU, only to end up in South Bend, EV was committed to Southern Cal before ND... anybody see a pattern to some of the kids who have left or decided they didn't want to be apart of the program???

Can't deny there's a pattern. Priestwood and Neal also were up in the air until at least the last minute, and now are gone, for whatever reason. (On the other hand, ND's best two defensive players of the last 20 years -- Te'o and Tuitt -- also were a bit flaky until NSD. And Ishaq kind of had the same approach, and he's still here...).

Maybe the staff just needs to try to get a little more confirmation that the kids are solid, and stop trying to "just close the deal". Recruiting a player doesn't stop just because he signs an LOI.

 

[CarrollVermin]

I'm following GITF advice and letting it go. Nothing we can do about it and no sense in going around in circles.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Like I tried to explain before...and got hammered for questioning BK...Maybe BK and the staff sold him on something and then couldn't deliver? If it's so asinine to think it's about grades or the signing day deal...then what is it?


Unless UCLA is telling him something he wants to hear...that's another can of worms

Exactly my point. What caused this? Because it seemed rather sudden (I define "sudden" as within a few weeks of having to report to camp when this entire time he's been on board with ND).

We'll have to agree to disagree about the staff losing recruits. I personally don't believe they had any control over the previous losses. EV's case is still up in the air, but I have a hard time believing it's the staff's fault. We'll see I guess.

If UCLA had anything to do with this, then I hope ND can prove it and they get hammered for it.

I'm sticking with my personal opinion in that he just got cold feet, asked to be released, staff said no, and it escalated from there (no sources, just gut feeling).

 

[CHIDomer9]

I think one of the things that coaches are going to have to look at going forward is what happens to a kid when the recruiting process is done. The whole recruiting machine has become so big in recent years that the best players are handed stardom and attention they are not ready to let go of in the least. I could name a couple recruits over the last 2-3 years that it was obvious that they just did not want the recruiting process to end. They may say that they are happy to get it over with once they commit, but for some kids the process of being fawned over and worshipped by grown men is just not something they want to stop.

I don't know if that is the case with EV, but if academics are not the reason for this BS, then I think it is a logical explanation.

 

[Brown]

I'm sticking with my personal opinion in that he just got cold feet, asked to be released, staff said no, and it escalated from there (no sources, just gut feeling).

I agree with your theory on how things turned out w/ Vanderdoes. He has a lot of the consistencies with guys who simply cannot make up their mind and end up skipping around to several different places. These guys usually also end up failing to stay anywhere, and ironically enough, regardless of their talent, their mental game isn't stable enough to ever fully harness it.

Anyway, as for your other point about whose fault it's. I totally disagree here.

When a coaching staff goes out and sets its priorities on who to recruit, it's their job before they invest a lot of recruiting time into an individual to assess the players mentally (their desire to be here, their history of stability, etc.) This is a VERY important part of scouting in all major sports. If the coaching staff sees any red flags, they need to move on immediately and find somebody who is a better fit.

Brian Kelly and his staff have failed miserably in this regard. They are always wasting tons of recruiting time/resources going after guys who simply don't want to be here.

The turnover rate in recent years has been alarming.

This reflects direct on Brian Kelly. It's a critical issue right now in regards to his recruiting. And he squarely deserves the blame.

1 or 2 big time guys is fine (ok the player pulled a quick one) ... but it's several VERY key guys (the faces of the class) seemingly every class.

 

[rocket31]

The turnover rate in recent years has been alarming.

this is a problem at nearly every school in the country. LSU, OSU, Oregon, USC, etc all have faced similar issues.

 

[SouthernComfort]

Ask me this...when was the last time you heard of a 5 star recruit leave 'Bama or LSU? Just asking to see if the propensity is the same as it has been at ND the last few years. Sure, 'Bama guys leave...but it is usually early as a first round pick in the NFL, which is not the same as a transfer to Cincinnati, or UCLA, or USF.

Y! SPORTS

5 star receiver left this month.

It does happen everywhere. Also, Alabama has a horrible history of pushing its athletes that dont pan out as projected out of the program.

USC lost 4 of its 5 five star recruits from 2010.

Im not saying its normal at ND. Im just saying it happens everywhere. And I think it has a greater chance to happen at ND due to academic requirements, weather, distance to the hot pipline states, etc.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

I agree with your theory on how things turned out w/ Vanderdoes. He has a lot of the consistencies with guys who simply cannot make up their mind and end up skipping around to several different places. These guys usually also end up failing to stay anywhere, and ironically enough, regardless of their talent, their mental game isn't stable enough to ever fully harness it.

Anyway, as for your other point about whose fault it's. I totally disagree here.

When a coaching staff goes out and sets its priorities on who to recruit, it's their job before they invest a lot of recruiting time into an individual to assess the players mentally (their desire to be here, their history of stability, etc.) This is a VERY important part of scouting in all major sports. If the coaching staff sees any red flags, they need to move on immediately and find somebody who is a better fit.

Brian Kelly and his staff have failed miserably in this regard. They are always wasting tons of recruiting time/resources going after guys who simply don't want to be here.

The turnover rate in recent years has been alarming.

This reflects direct on Brian Kelly. It's a critical issue right now in regards to his recruiting. And he squarely deserves the blame.

1 or 2 big time guys is fine (ok the player pulled a quick one) ... but it's several VERY key guys (the faces of the class) seemingly every class.

Now you've done it...

 

[BleedBlueGold]

I agree with your theory on how things turned out w/ Vanderdoes. He has a lot of the consistencies with guys who simply cannot make up their mind and end up skipping around to several different places. These guys usually also end up failing to stay anywhere, and ironically enough, regardless of their talent, their mental game isn't stable enough to ever fully harness it.

Anyway, as for your other point about whose fault it's. I totally disagree here.

When a coaching staff goes out and sets its priorities on who to recruit, it's their job before they invest a lot of recruiting time into an individual to assess the players mentally (their desire to be here, their history of stability, etc.) This is a VERY important part of scouting in all major sports. If the coaching staff sees any red flags, they need to move on immediately and find somebody who is a better fit.

Brian Kelly and his staff have failed miserably in this regard. They are always wasting tons of recruiting time/resources going after guys who simply don't want to be here.

The turnover rate in recent years has been alarming.

This reflects direct on Brian Kelly. It's a critical issue right now in regards to his recruiting. And he squarely deserves the blame.

1 or 2 big time guys is fine (ok the player pulled a quick one) ... but it's several VERY key guys (the faces of the class) seemingly every class.

I'm not going to get sucked into this again. The argument about it being on the staff has been beaten to death.

 

[fitz_bu47]

Can't deny there's a pattern. Priestwood and Neal also were up in the air until at least the last minute, and now are gone, for whatever reason. (On the other hand, ND's best two defensive players of the last 20 years -- Te'o and Tuitt -- also were a bit flaky until NSD. And Ishaq kind of had the same approach, and he's still here...).

Maybe the staff just needs to try to get a little more confirmation that the kids are solid, and stop trying to "just close the deal". Recruiting a player doesn't stop just because he signs an LOI.

How was Manti flaky? He took his visits, and announced/signed on National Signing day and talked about what a great decision he made ever since....Liking/considering more than one school isn't flaky. Making COMMITMENTS or worse SIGNING and then flip flopping is the definition of flaky.

 

[IrishFaninTX]

Let's not play the academic card...and if you want to play the academic card, then let's look at Stanford and their success. As for Keil, I do believe that he flipped his commitment at the last minute, and did not transfer once he was on campus - a little different situation.

At the end of the day, I really don't care what EV does. His life, play by the rules, and face the consequences of your decision. Still, someone in the athletic department needs to determine why athletes are leaving and start to change something...the strategy, the approach, or the type of athlete that we are tying to sign.

Give me 3 names of 5 star players Stanford has signed in the last 3 years? We aren't hearing about academics being an issue for them because they are not bringing in mega superstars so of course they don't lose a 5 star guy every season. If they are signing the talent that ND is, then I stand corrected. They have had some success and I think coaching has been a big part of that. But I think they had 1 or 2 good recruiting classes during that whole stretch and the rest was coaches who knew how to recruit for a scheme (like Kelly has) and recruit athletes instead of recruit by star rankings. Notre Dame has tradition and a can sell itself by name alone, something Stanford can't do so their coaches had to be creative and find ways to win with what little talent they were able to bring in.

 

[chicago51]

I'm not going to get sucked into this again. The argument about it being on the staff has been beaten to death.

Is saying you are not going to be sucked into this an indication that you have in fact been sucked in?

 

[Rhode Irish]

this is a problem at nearly every school in the country. LSU, OSU, Oregon, USC, etc all have faced similar issues.

Exactly. I sense that the posters who want to blame the staff don't follow much college football outside of Notre Dame. This is just part of the game, unfortunately. You have to have the stomach for it.

 

[Ironman8]

I agree with your theory on how things turned out w/ Vanderdoes. He has a lot of the consistencies with guys who simply cannot make up their mind and end up skipping around to several different places. These guys usually also end up failing to stay anywhere, and ironically enough, regardless of their talent, their mental game isn't stable enough to ever fully harness it.

Anyway, as for your other point about whose fault it's. I totally disagree here.

When a coaching staff goes out and sets its priorities on who to recruit, it's their job before they invest a lot of recruiting time into an individual to assess the players mentally (their desire to be here, their history of stability, etc.) This is a VERY important part of scouting in all major sports. If the coaching staff sees any red flags, they need to move on immediately and find somebody who is a better fit.

Brian Kelly and his staff have failed miserably in this regard. They are always wasting tons of recruiting time/resources going after guys who simply don't want to be here.

The turnover rate in recent years has been alarming.

This reflects direct on Brian Kelly. It's a critical issue right now in regards to his recruiting. And he squarely deserves the blame.

1 or 2 big time guys is fine (ok the player pulled a quick one) ... but it's several VERY key guys (the faces of the class) seemingly every class.

Go back several pages and read what WhiskeyJack, a few others and I wrote in response to a post similar to this. I am not going to retype what I already argued, but your argument is fundamentally flawed, as you fail to grasp the fact that they are all individual instances where not only does blame clearly fall on the other party, but BK has no culpability whatsoever.

Making yourself educated on a subject before presented an opinion is a solid policy to have.

 

[Kak7304]

Can't deny there's a pattern. Priestwood and Neal also were up in the air until at least the last minute, and now are gone, for whatever reason. (On the other hand, ND's best two defensive players of the last 20 years -- Te'o and Tuitt -- also were a bit flaky until NSD. And Ishaq kind of had the same approach, and he's still here...).

Maybe the staff just needs to try to get a little more confirmation that the kids are solid, and stop trying to "just close the deal". Recruiting a player doesn't stop just because he signs an LOI.

So are the coaches supposed to hold their hands and tell them how great they are all throughout college?