Brittney Griner Declines Olympics/Griner Comes Out/Baylor Keeps Griner in Closet

BGIF

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It was a recruiting thing," Griner told espnW.com. "The coaches thought that if it seemed like they condoned it, people wouldn't let their kids come play for Baylor.


B.S!

The coaches were concerned people wouldn't let their kids come play for Baylor if it became public OR was the university concerned people wouldn't let their kids come to Baylor to become students, AND/OR that donations to the university would dry up?

Baylor is a private, Baptist university in Waco, TX. I've been there.

Check The College Prowler's write up on BU's Gay Pride Factor ...

Baylor University - Diversity - Facts & Statistics - College Prowler

It's incredibly low. ... If you're looking for tolerance, look somewhere else. ... Of course there are exceptions, but as a general rule The school and the student body are intolerant.
 

BobD

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Looking forward to the day this is not a topic of interest anymore.

^Exactly my first thought on this issue. My second thought though.....usually coaches go into locker rooms if they're the same sex as the players. I'd have had zero problems about playing baseball or football for a gay coach, but if he came into the locker room, that would p!ss me off.
 
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irishpat183

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When you, as a member of the powerful majority (white heterosexual male, etc.),state that a lesbian should stay in the closet because coming out would be "distracting", it comes off as the smug privilege of one who can't empathize with the oppressed. At least that's how a Progressive would take it. I'm sure several of our left-leaning posters will twitch when they read that.

And I didn't mean it as insult, truly. Your ability to inadvertently turn even the most innocent topic into partisan warfare would be hilarious if I didn't have to clean up the mess.

So because I'm a white guy, I can't say things like that? LOL. Come on. It has nothing to do with my position....

From a TEAM perspective, distractions are distractions. Whether it's a player going to jail, gay, grades....etc. It should be kept in house (although, that's tough to do these days). Again, at least until the end of the season when your focus is no longer on winning games.

I don't have a problem with Baylor saying that the season would be about Basketball...and not about Britney Griner's sexuality.
 

Kanye West

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So because I'm a white guy, I can't say things like that? LOL. Come on. It has nothing to do with my position....

From a TEAM perspective, distractions are distractions. Whether it's a player going to jail, gay, grades....etc. It should be kept in house (although, that's tough to do these days). Again, at least until the end of the season when your focus is no longer on winning games.

I don't have a problem with Baylor saying that the season would be about Basketball...and not about Britney Griner's sexuality.

It's one of the negatives of having White privelige. Coming out is a very challenging thing for many people and thus if you degrade it or mock it, it will be viewed as offensive. Coming out is not in the same category as going to jail or grades or isn't really comparable, it is a lifestyle choice that has implications for years and years to come. It's a much bigger deal. Would you say a player getting injured or critically sick is a distraction and should be handled in house?
 

irishpat183

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It's one of the negatives of having White privelige. Coming out is a very challenging thing for many people and thus if you degrade it or mock it, it will be viewed as offensive. Coming out is not in the same category as going to jail or grades or isn't really comparable, it is a lifestyle choice that has implications for years and years to come. It's a much bigger deal. Would you say a player getting injured or critically sick is a distraction and should be handled in house?

Another made up liberal term..."White privilege". What an ignorant term (not you, the term itself). So all whites are privileged? Never had any struggles? Never had anything bad happen to them?

But back to Griner....Sick and injuries keep players out of games. That is definately not the same thing. Her personal sexual preference, is her own business.

What good does it do to let everyone know who you're sleeping with? What? because they have some obligation to the gay community? Which is dumb. Nobody is obligated to come out if they choose not too.

This is a distraction. I'm not saying that being gay is like going to jail or anything of that nature. But when the best player in the nation comes out gay, in the middle of a season, the focus then goes from basketball and school (the reason Griner is there, not to be a gay advocate) to her sexual life.
 

Kanye West

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Another made up liberal term..."White privilege". What an ignorant term (not you, the term itself). So all whites are privileged? Never had any struggles? Never had anything bad happen to them?

But back to Griner....Sick and injuries keep players out of games. That is definately not the same thing. Her personal sexual preference, is her own business.

What good does it do to let everyone know who you're sleeping with? What? because they have some obligation to the gay community? Which is dumb. Nobody is obligated to come out if they choose not too.

This is a distraction. I'm not saying that being gay is like going to jail or anything of that nature. But when the best player in the nation comes out gay, in the middle of a season, the focus then goes from basketball and school (the reason Griner is there, not to be a gay advocate) to her sexual life.

Everyone has struggles, but being a white straight male has many advantages.

Stole this from a site:
1. I can if I wish arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.

2. I can avoid spending time with people whom I was trained to mistrust and who have learned to mistrust my kind or me.

3. If I should need to move, I can be pretty sure of renting or purchasing housing in an area which I can afford and in which I would want to live.

4. I can be pretty sure that my neighbors in such a location will be neutral or pleasant to me.

5. I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harassed.

6. I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented.

7. When I am told about our national heritage or about "civilization," I am shown that people of my color made it what it is.

8. I can be sure that my children will be given curricular materials that testify to the existence of their race.

9. If I want to, I can be pretty sure of finding a publisher for this piece on white privilege.

10. I can be pretty sure of having my voice heard in a group in which I am the only member of my race.

11. I can be casual about whether or not to listen to another person's voice in a group in which s/he is the only member of his/her race.

12. I can go into a music shop and count on finding the music of my race represented, into a supermarket and find the staple foods which fit with my cultural traditions, into a hairdresser's shop and find someone who can cut my hair.

13. Whether I use checks, credit cards or cash, I can count on my skin color not to work against the appearance of financial reliability.

14. I can arrange to protect my children most of the time from people who might not like them.

15. I do not have to educate my children to be aware of systemic racism for their own daily physical protection.

16. I can be pretty sure that my children's teachers and employers will tolerate them if they fit school and workplace norms; my chief worries about them do not concern others' attitudes toward their race.

17. I can talk with my mouth full and not have people put this down to my color.

18. I can swear, or dress in second hand clothes, or not answer letters, without having people attribute these choices to the bad morals, the poverty or the illiteracy of my race.

19. I can speak in public to a powerful male group without putting my race on trial.

20. I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race.

21. I am never asked to speak for all the people of my racial group.

22. I can remain oblivious of the language and customs of persons of color who constitute the world's majority without feeling in my culture any penalty for such oblivion.

23. I can criticize our government and talk about how much I fear its policies and behavior without being seen as a cultural outsider.

24. I can be pretty sure that if I ask to talk to the "person in charge", I will be facing a person of my race.

25. If a traffic cop pulls me over or if the IRS audits my tax return, I can be sure I haven't been singled out because of my race.

26. I can easily buy posters, post-cards, picture books, greeting cards, dolls, toys and children's magazines featuring people of my race.

27. I can go home from most meetings of organizations I belong to feeling somewhat tied in, rather than isolated, out-of-place, outnumbered, unheard, held at a distance or feared.

28. I can be pretty sure that an argument with a colleague of another race is more likely to jeopardize her/his chances for advancement than to jeopardize mine.

29. I can be pretty sure that if I argue for the promotion of a person of another race, or a program centering on race, this is not likely to cost me heavily within my present setting, even if my colleagues disagree with me.

30. If I declare there is a racial issue at hand, or there isn't a racial issue at hand, my race will lend me more credibility for either position than a person of color will have.

31. I can choose to ignore developments in minority writing and minority activist programs, or disparage them, or learn from them, but in any case, I can find ways to be more or less protected from negative consequences of any of these choices.

32. My culture gives me little fear about ignoring the perspectives and powers of people of other races.

33. I am not made acutely aware that my shape, bearing or body odor will be taken as a reflection on my race.

34. I can worry about racism without being seen as self-interested or self-seeking.

35. I can take a job with an affirmative action employer without having my co-workers on the job suspect that I got it because of my race.

36. If my day, week or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether it had racial overtones.

37. I can be pretty sure of finding people who would be willing to talk with me and advise me about my next steps, professionally.

38. I can think over many options, social, political, imaginative or professional, without asking whether a person of my race would be accepted or allowed to do what I want to do.

39. I can be late to a meeting without having the lateness reflect on my race.

40. I can choose public accommodation without fearing that people of my race cannot get in or will be mistreated in the places I have chosen.

41. I can be sure that if I need legal or medical help, my race will not work against me.

42. I can arrange my activities so that I will never have to experience feelings of rejection owing to my race.

43. If I have low credibility as a leader I can be sure that my race is not the problem.

44. I can easily find academic courses and institutions which give attention only to people of my race.

45. I can expect figurative language and imagery in all of the arts to testify to experiences of my race.

46. I can chose blemish cover or bandages in "flesh" color and have them more or less match my skin.

47. I can travel alone or with my spouse without expecting embarrassment or hostility in those who deal with us.

48. I have no difficulty finding neighborhoods where people approve of our household.

49. My children are given texts and classes which implicitly support our kind of family unit and do not turn them against my choice of domestic partnership.

50. I will feel welcomed and "normal" in the usual walks of public life, institutional and social.


The point is coming out is a very important moment in someone's life. While we may not feel that she is obligated to do so, She may believe that if you do not come out you may feel like you are living a lie or lying about a life. I also believe as the best basketball player of her gender it is a moment for gay pride. Members of the LGBTQQ are heavily segregated whether it be socially or politically and thus the scale of her living a lie and being a lesbian create an obligation fitting for her to comeout and show that a gay athlete can be successful. Thus it was wrong for the coach to keep it in house.

Now Brittany Greiner is a different animal, because she may be dodging gender testing, and it is very suspicious. As Lax pointed out if she is infact Transgendered and does not admit to it, she is a hypocrite. But if there were these issues not involved I believe it is fine for her to come out publicly and it is wrong for a coach or teammates to stop/prevent her.
You cannot diminish coming out as a distraction, is my main point.
 

RDU Irish

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Can we get back to Griner liking men. It really has nothing to do with race.
 

RDU Irish

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So does she prefer white men? Asian men? Black men? Catcher or pitcher? I mean, sign up TMZ or National Enquirer to figure it out because one more ESPN blitzkrieg on some gay athlete will make me turn it off forever. I want to see sports, I don't care which team they play on off the court!

Like I really want my kids exposed to that crap at 8AM on a Saturday when they think they are going to see some baseball highlights. F-ing shut up already and leave the non-sports bullsh!t to Dr. Phil.
 

Kanye West

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So does she prefer white men? Asian men? Black men? Catcher or pitcher? I mean, sign up TMZ or National Enquirer to figure it out because one more ESPN blitzkrieg on some gay athlete will make me turn it off forever. I want to see sports, I don't care which team they play on off the court!

Like I really want my kids exposed to that crap at 8AM on a Saturday when they think they are going to see some baseball highlights. F-ing shut up already and leave the non-sports bullsh!t to Dr. Phil.

There is a difference between coming out and saying what your sexual preferences are on which type of person you prefer. Face it the LGBTQ are still getting screwed over with laws and it until they are at a fairer ground are going to try to promote themselves similar to oppressed groups before.
 

irishpat183

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There is a difference between coming out and saying what your sexual preferences are on which type of person you prefer. Face it the LGBTQ are still getting screwed over with laws and it until they are at a fairer ground are going to try to promote themselves similar to oppressed groups before.

So what does that have to do with being a basketball player at Baylor?

And please, be specific, how was she disadvantaged and screwed over at Baylor? Seems to me she had it pretty good.

I have no problem with the coach not wanting this to become the focus of her team. There is ZERO to gain from Griner coming out. It only drags around a media circus.

So do we not give a damn about how the other women on the team feel? Because you want to push a political agenda on everyone?
 

irishpat183

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Everyone has struggles, but being a white straight male has many advantages.

Stole this from a site:
1. I can if I wish arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.

2. I can avoid spending time with people whom I was trained to mistrust and who have learned to mistrust my kind or me.

3. If I should need to move, I can be pretty sure of renting or purchasing housing in an area which I can afford and in which I would want to live.

4. I can be pretty sure that my neighbors in such a location will be neutral or pleasant to me.

5. I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harassed.

6. I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented.

7. When I am told about our national heritage or about "civilization," I am shown that people of my color made it what it is.

8. I can be sure that my children will be given curricular materials that testify to the existence of their race.

9. If I want to, I can be pretty sure of finding a publisher for this piece on white privilege.

10. I can be pretty sure of having my voice heard in a group in which I am the only member of my race.

11. I can be casual about whether or not to listen to another person's voice in a group in which s/he is the only member of his/her race.

12. I can go into a music shop and count on finding the music of my race represented, into a supermarket and find the staple foods which fit with my cultural traditions, into a hairdresser's shop and find someone who can cut my hair.

13. Whether I use checks, credit cards or cash, I can count on my skin color not to work against the appearance of financial reliability.

14. I can arrange to protect my children most of the time from people who might not like them.

15. I do not have to educate my children to be aware of systemic racism for their own daily physical protection.

16. I can be pretty sure that my children's teachers and employers will tolerate them if they fit school and workplace norms; my chief worries about them do not concern others' attitudes toward their race.

17. I can talk with my mouth full and not have people put this down to my color.

18. I can swear, or dress in second hand clothes, or not answer letters, without having people attribute these choices to the bad morals, the poverty or the illiteracy of my race.

19. I can speak in public to a powerful male group without putting my race on trial.

20. I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race.

21. I am never asked to speak for all the people of my racial group.

22. I can remain oblivious of the language and customs of persons of color who constitute the world's majority without feeling in my culture any penalty for such oblivion.

23. I can criticize our government and talk about how much I fear its policies and behavior without being seen as a cultural outsider.

24. I can be pretty sure that if I ask to talk to the "person in charge", I will be facing a person of my race.

25. If a traffic cop pulls me over or if the IRS audits my tax return, I can be sure I haven't been singled out because of my race.

26. I can easily buy posters, post-cards, picture books, greeting cards, dolls, toys and children's magazines featuring people of my race.

27. I can go home from most meetings of organizations I belong to feeling somewhat tied in, rather than isolated, out-of-place, outnumbered, unheard, held at a distance or feared.

28. I can be pretty sure that an argument with a colleague of another race is more likely to jeopardize her/his chances for advancement than to jeopardize mine.

29. I can be pretty sure that if I argue for the promotion of a person of another race, or a program centering on race, this is not likely to cost me heavily within my present setting, even if my colleagues disagree with me.

30. If I declare there is a racial issue at hand, or there isn't a racial issue at hand, my race will lend me more credibility for either position than a person of color will have.

31. I can choose to ignore developments in minority writing and minority activist programs, or disparage them, or learn from them, but in any case, I can find ways to be more or less protected from negative consequences of any of these choices.

32. My culture gives me little fear about ignoring the perspectives and powers of people of other races.

33. I am not made acutely aware that my shape, bearing or body odor will be taken as a reflection on my race.

34. I can worry about racism without being seen as self-interested or self-seeking.

35. I can take a job with an affirmative action employer without having my co-workers on the job suspect that I got it because of my race.

36. If my day, week or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether it had racial overtones.

37. I can be pretty sure of finding people who would be willing to talk with me and advise me about my next steps, professionally.

38. I can think over many options, social, political, imaginative or professional, without asking whether a person of my race would be accepted or allowed to do what I want to do.

39. I can be late to a meeting without having the lateness reflect on my race.

40. I can choose public accommodation without fearing that people of my race cannot get in or will be mistreated in the places I have chosen.

41. I can be sure that if I need legal or medical help, my race will not work against me.

42. I can arrange my activities so that I will never have to experience feelings of rejection owing to my race.

43. If I have low credibility as a leader I can be sure that my race is not the problem.

44. I can easily find academic courses and institutions which give attention only to people of my race.

45. I can expect figurative language and imagery in all of the arts to testify to experiences of my race.

46. I can chose blemish cover or bandages in "flesh" color and have them more or less match my skin.

47. I can travel alone or with my spouse without expecting embarrassment or hostility in those who deal with us.

48. I have no difficulty finding neighborhoods where people approve of our household.

49. My children are given texts and classes which implicitly support our kind of family unit and do not turn them against my choice of domestic partnership.

50. I will feel welcomed and "normal" in the usual walks of public life, institutional and social.


The point is coming out is a very important moment in someone's life. While we may not feel that she is obligated to do so, She may believe that if you do not come out you may feel like you are living a lie or lying about a life. I also believe as the best basketball player of her gender it is a moment for gay pride. Members of the LGBTQQ are heavily segregated whether it be socially or politically and thus the scale of her living a lie and being a lesbian create an obligation fitting for her to comeout and show that a gay athlete can be successful. Thus it was wrong for the coach to keep it in house.

Now Brittany Greiner is a different animal, because she may be dodging gender testing, and it is very suspicious. As Lax pointed out if she is infact Transgendered and does not admit to it, she is a hypocrite. But if there were these issues not involved I believe it is fine for her to come out publicly and it is wrong for a coach or teammates to stop/prevent her.
You cannot diminish coming out as a distraction, is my main point.

Those points you mentioned....are you kidding me? Nice inferiority complex. It's no wonder.....

So many of these are so off base and just flat out bullshit. Really.
 
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It's one of the negatives of having White privelige. Coming out is a very challenging thing for many people and thus if you degrade it or mock it, it will be viewed as offensive. Coming out is not in the same category as going to jail or grades or isn't really comparable, it is a lifestyle choice that has implications for years and years to come. It's a much bigger deal. Would you say a player getting injured or critically sick is a distraction and should be handled in house?

It's not a lifestyle "choice"
 

Kanye West

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Those points you mentioned....are you kidding me? Nice inferiority complex. It's no wonder.....

So many of these are so off base and just flat out bullshit. Really.

White priveledge exists, you must realize that there are disadvantiges for a lesbian basketball player and that it is a struggle for her to comeout.
 

Kanye West

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So what does that have to do with being a basketball player at Baylor?

And please, be specific, how was she disadvantaged and screwed over at Baylor? Seems to me she had it pretty good.

I have no problem with the coach not wanting this to become the focus of her team. There is ZERO to gain from Griner coming out. It only drags around a media circus.

So do we not give a damn about how the other women on the team feel? Because you want to push a political agenda on everyone?

She wasn't allowed to say her sexual preference and had to live a lie. She was the star there, but if it was open to the public about it, can you imagine the backlash in Waco? If the best player in a sport is a lesbian it gives that community hope and allows them to spread their message better. Is she dragging attention towards herself, yes. But if it is for a positive message and to show an example of a lesbian succeeding it is for a good cause. The coach didn't want the negative exposure that she supports that community and let it stay internal, so yeah you are right in one facet. But there is a lot to gain from her coming out, and in the end the coach shouldn't of hid it. Curios, if this took place back in 1947,
would you have not let Jackie Robinson play or join your team if you were the dodgers coach, because it would bring a media circus? Similar situation, obviously the latter one is 1000x of magnitude.
 

Redbar

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Those points you mentioned....are you kidding me? Nice inferiority complex. It's no wonder.....

So many of these are so off base and just flat out bullshit. Really.

I may be interpreting this post wrong, but if I am not the bolded part is the most disturbing thing I think you have said Pat. It's no wonder what?
 

irishpat183

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I may be interpreting this post wrong, but if I am not the bolded part is the most disturbing thing I think you have said Pat. It's no wonder what?

It's no wonder he buys into this phrase "white privilege". If he starts his day with those pre-conceived notions

Shoudlve claified.
 

Kanye West

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It's no wonder he buys into this phrase "white privilege". If he starts his day with those pre-conceived notions

Shoudlve claified.

I don't think anyone really wakes up with those notions. The privilege just points out what simple advantages that people get without really knowing about them. It's more just to think in a different point of view and how some of those privileges are not there for some rights. Also Pat, you still haven't told me when Kanye West called white people the devil. Just waiting to see that response.
 

irishpat183

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I don't think anyone really wakes up with those notions. The privilege just points out what simple advantages that people get without really knowing about them. It's more just to think in a different point of view and how some of those privileges are not there for some rights. Also Pat, you still haven't told me when Kanye West called white people the devil. Just waiting to see that response.

You talk as if those advantages REALLY exist....and if you're going to say they do, then are you saying they exist for ALL white people? There is where that logic goes down the toliet.

There are some real down on their luck white folks out there....I wonder what kind of privilege someone like Kanye has over thoese people?

And I posted a response eariler quotign some of his lyrics and a few of his interviews. I left the screen by accident and lost everything I had posted. I really don't want to repost. I nkkow that sounds like an exuse, but whatever.
 

Kanye West

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You talk as if those advantages REALLY exist....and if you're going to say they do, then are you saying they exist for ALL white people? There is where that logic goes down the toliet.

There are some real down on their luck white folks out there....I wonder what kind of privilege someone like Kanye has over thoese people?

And I posted a response eariler quotign some of his lyrics and a few of his interviews. I left the screen by accident and lost everything I had posted. I really don't want to repost. I nkkow that sounds like an exuse, but whatever.

Again white priviledge is all race based not class based. A white person will never be that stereotyped because he's white compared to minorities. And I doubt the last part, because knowing you, you always have to win an arguement and that is one that you knew you could not win.
 
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