North Korea conflict

chubler

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If North Korea ever fired upon us they would face immediate military retaliation. Yet as one of our bright colige here said the would "get wiped off the face of the earth" or would they? They have a localized standing army of over 1.4 million. The united states does NOT have a standing army and currently has around 1.2 million active soldiers worldwide. So even if we were able to mobilize half of our troops we would still be out numbered 2-1. Socially they are an incredibly nationalistic society willing to die for their country. They are well trained, well armed and willing to fight. So in the end we may win the war but we will suffer heavy american casualties and it will be a painful experience for our country. I love this country, but we are facing perils in the upcoming years.

Personally, I'd take outnumbered 2-1 with tanks and artillery that make N. Korea look like kids with sharp sticks, AND my planes and helicopters roaming the skies over the battlefield with impunity, in a heartbeat compared to any war we've fought recently. Men with AK-47's have a tough time stopping top-of-the-line tanks and attack helicopters...

The initial casualties would be exceedingly light. It's the "occupation phase" where American troops die in this sort of conflict (like you said, they're an incredibly nationalistic society). Maybe China would be willing to show the world how trustworthy they are and act as peacekeepers while S. Korea consolidates control of the peninsula and food aid rolls in to win over the population... Lets just hope it doesnt come to that.
 

GoIrish41

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Personally, I'd take outnumbered 2-1 with tanks and artillery that make N. Korea look like kids with sharp sticks, AND my planes and helicopters roaming the skies over the battlefield with impunity, in a heartbeat compared to any war we've fought recently. Men with AK-47's have a tough time stopping top-of-the-line tanks and attack helicopters...

The initial casualties would be exceedingly light. It's the "occupation phase" where American troops die in this sort of conflict (like you said, they're an incredibly nationalistic society). Maybe China would be willing to show the world how trustworthy they are and act as peacekeepers while S. Korea consolidates control of the peninsula and food aid rolls in to win over the population... Lets just hope it doesnt come to that.

Agree with everything here except I dont see any reason to occupy. What would be the reason?
 
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BobD

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The only thing that could eliminate North Korea is an agreement between China and South Korea, backed by UN support.
 

DSully1995

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Agree with everything her except I dont see any reason to occupy. What would be the reason?

You cannot abandoned a totally ruined country, their troubles will be blamed on you. US/SK/UN would need to build up the country
 

Rhode Irish

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You cannot abandoned a totally ruined country, their troubles will be blamed on you. US/SK/UN would need to build up the country

How much would it cost to put them back in same place they are now? $50?

Seriously, we'll just give it to South Korea and let them figure it our.
 

DSully1995

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How much would it cost to put them back in same place they are now? $50?

Seriously, we'll just give it to South Korea and let them figure it our.

3 weeks of air dropping Iphones with 3g and theyll be won over :)

SK would likely take most of the burden/hands on effort
 

BobD

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How much would it cost to put them back in same place they are now? $50?

Seriously, we'll just give it to South Korea and let them figure it our.

Can't do that. The Chinese aren't going to accept such a US friendly neighbor on their border and the Koreans having been invaded by China at least three times don't care much for the Chinese. Same with the Japanese......there isn't much love between most Asian nations.

It would take a monumental agreement between S. Korea and China to forge a new friendship. The Chinese would almost certainly demand S. Korea send the US troops home (good for us) and between those two countries they could probably turn North Korea into something like the Chinese have with Hong Kong.
 

Old Man Mike

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Gentlemen, the South Koreans want no part of two things:

1). having to take the severe damages from the initial North Korean assault prior to the combined retaliation of their own technology and The Leviathan of the USA which crushes it. This would take several days probably without the use of nuclear weapons [which there is about zero chance that the US would do], and therefore create quite a lot of death to say nothing of the structural and economic mess.

2). Any requirement that they should get involved with "managing" or, God Forbid, occupying and ultimately absorbing North Korea a la E/W Germany.

Given the latter stance, China wants no part in "managing" North Korea's problems either, viewing their dysfunctional state as merely a circus buffer between themselves and the west. As long as NK doesn't behave TOO badly, that's OK by China.

NO ONE [South Korea, China, Japan, USA, Russia] wants North Korea setting off any Nuke on foreign soil.

With these pretty absolute parameters as benchmark starting points, everyone can build their own hypothesis about future NK, SK, China, USA actions from there. For twenty years NK has played the Big Bluff Blowhard game, gotten the US to give them a little something, violated whatever treaty was involved, and gone on to the next bluff. Is this the latest in the series, or are this young basketball-loving idiot "leader" and his semi-crazy aunt, who weirdly seems to be the real power, fools enough to take it further?

IF the USA could get China to lead multinational talks with these clowns, THAT might create some path to greater stability. China MUST get NK to realize that it doesn't like certain behaviors at all to the extent that they are willing to ration their food and energy exports to the place, without which NK would simply die.
 

Andy in Sactown

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kim-jong-un-meme-e1365295475770.jpg
 

ulukinatme

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Apparently this has been pretty hot on Reddit today, I post it here because the contractor is Korean: The Shed of Doom

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And...the hilarity
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korea.jpg

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AngryShed_zps970d8ba3.jpg

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/5UY1vDapPEY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
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Buster Bluth

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North Korea is going to (attempt to) shot a missile over Japan soon. Notice it's Japan.

They want to rile Japan up specifically, for reasons stated. A futile move, but Kim Jong Un's second best move. Best being ending the country's existence.
 

rikkitikki08

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If you guys want to see a solid documentary on North Korea about the people and how the leader effects them. Look around for the national geographic- inside North Korea. I just watched it on Netflix and its mind blowing, that country is nothing more than a giant cult.
 

IrishinTN

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My wife works with Chinese people and it is a similar mentality there. Every morning you MUST wake up and give thanks for the glorious leader. If you don't and your other family members hear about it, they can turn you in for a reward. You must also thank the glorious leader for pretty much everything and anything throughout the day. If you don't, other people are rewarded for turning you in. They have created a paranoid society of tattletales who look forward to the opportunity to do so because of the reward and accolades you will get for turning your friends/family/coworkers in for perceived "slight" of the government.
 

irishpat183

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You cannot abandoned a totally ruined country, their troubles will be blamed on you. US/SK/UN would need to build up the country

And we care, why?


This is the problem with America now. Trying to play world police and savior. You win a war? Let them rebuild so they think twice next time about picking a fight.
 

Irish Houstonian

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My wife works with Chinese people and it is a similar mentality there. Every morning you MUST wake up and give thanks for the glorious leader. If you don't and your other family members hear about it, they can turn you in for a reward. You must also thank the glorious leader for pretty much everything and anything throughout the day. If you don't, other people are rewarded for turning you in. They have created a paranoid society of tattletales who look forward to the opportunity to do so because of the reward and accolades you will get for turning your friends/family/coworkers in for perceived "slight" of the government.

And if Standard & Poors downgrades the country's debt rating, they're later targeted by the national gov't under trumped-up charges.

Oh wait, wrong country...My bad.
 

DSully1995

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And we care, why?


This is the problem with America now. Trying to play world police and savior. You win a war? Let them rebuild so they think twice next time about picking a fight.

Your ridiculous. Your mentality is the problem. We the best so we dont give a ****, **** you arabs, europeans haha shut up socialists, AMERICA is the BEST.

The US got great by not taking part in wars, but its well understood you have to help a country if you destroy it. Or else terrorist/extremists will have a safe haven to carry out missions
 
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Bogtrotter07

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And we care, why?


This is the problem with America now. Trying to play world police and savior. You win a war? Let them rebuild so they think twice next time about picking a fight.

The only problem with that is that is what we have done and it has led to most of our problems. Case in point Afghanistan.

Also, I worked with a lot of Chinese about fifteen to twenty years ago. They all told me how many men that the Chinese actually lost in Korea, and Viet Nam. Many more than anyone will know. There population is not necessarily in favor of war, or leaving clowns in power.
 

irishpat183

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Your ridiculous. Your mentality is the problem. We the best so we dont give a ****, **** you arabs, europeans haha shut up socialists, AMERICA is the BEST.

The US got great by not taking part in wars, but its well understood you have to help a country if you destroy it. Or else terrorist/extremists will have a safe haven to carry out missions

Your mentality is the problem. Saving the world has left us broke. People complain about wars....but the cost of rebuilding a damn country that's not even ours is just as pricey.

Again, Korea picks the fight? Bomb them back into the stone age and walk away. Teach them a lesson. And if another group takes over and wants a fight? Do it again.

I never said "America is the best" or anything of that nature (in regards to this discussion). Quit putting words in my mouth.
 

DSully1995

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Your mentality is the problem. Saving the world has left us broke. People complain about wars....but the cost of rebuilding a damn country that's not even ours is just as pricey.

Again, Korea picks the fight? Bomb them back into the stone age and walk away. Teach them a lesson. And if another group takes over and wants a fight? Do it again.

I never said "America is the best" or anything of that nature (in regards to this discussion). Quit putting words in my mouth.

You have said its the greatest before but thats beside the point. Im not saying you should save the world, but if you decide to "Bomb them back into the stone age and walk away" your gonna repeat the hard learnt lessons of history. Lets just leave an incredibly nationalistic country on the verge of starvation after a war, wonder how great thatll turn out. Extremism breeds in those conditions and history will repeat itself, it seems you dont care about repeating the same mistakes as the west did after WW1 with Germany. Again, im in favour of non-intervention, but you cant just leave them.
 

DSully1995

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^I really don't see the N. Koreans dominating Asia the way that Nazi Germany dominated Europe...

No but you arent gonna add to your shining city on a hill image by doing stuff like that. Down the road 15-20, China-Iran-Iraq-Afghanistan-NK-Russia, the "axis of evil" might realize the US isnt the hegemony it once was, and then you might regret the choices of the past
 
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Buster Bluth

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My wife works with Chinese people and it is a similar mentality there. Every morning you MUST wake up and give thanks for the glorious leader. If you don't and your other family members hear about it, they can turn you in for a reward. You must also thank the glorious leader for pretty much everything and anything throughout the day. If you don't, other people are rewarded for turning you in. They have created a paranoid society of tattletales who look forward to the opportunity to do so because of the reward and accolades you will get for turning your friends/family/coworkers in for perceived "slight" of the government.

China has been, since the beginning of recorded history, essentially a gigantic ant colony.
 
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