Opinions/Discussions on Guns

[In Lou I Trust]

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/03/daniel-zimmerman/serbu/

 

[chicago51]

Also the NRA chairman once supported universal background checks and is now against them.

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[FLDomer]

How is this a fact if there is now way of tracing private transfers, and those without background checks??

 

[chicago51]

How is this a fact if there is now way of tracing private transfers, and those without background checks??

We don't know the exact number but it is an estimated based off of these studys/surveys. Rather it is 6.6 million, 5 million, or 8 million we know there is a lot.

House Gun Violence Prevention Task Force, Feb. 7: Individuals purchasing a firearm have the option of going to a federal firearms licensee (FFL) where a background check will be required, or purchasing a firearm from a private seller without undergoing a check. This alternative has allowed an estimated 6.6 million guns, or about 40 percent of all gun purchases, to be sold each year without the benefit of a federal background check. (Source: “It’s Time to Act” gun-violence prevention plan.)

Rep. John Conyers, Jan. 24: Non-licensed sellers do not have to perform checks, and it’s estimated that 40% of guns are sold by private sellers without checks. This is unacceptable, and is a major drive of gun violence in this country. (Source: Press release.)

Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand, Jan. 24: Today, about 40 percent of guns are purchased without a background check. (Source: MSNBC Transcript.)

Vice President Biden, Jan. 17: But because of the lack of the ability of federal agencies to be able to even keep records, we’re not — we can’t say with absolute certainty what I’m about to say is correct. But the consensus is about 40 percent of the people who buy guns today do so outside the NICS system, outside the background check system. (Source: Remarks at 81st Winter Meeting of the U.S. Conference of Mayors.)

President Obama, Jan. 16: But it’s hard to enforce that law when as many as 40 percent of all gun purchases are conducted without a background check. (Source: Remarks on gun violence.)

“Now Is The Time,” Jan. 16: Right now, federally licensed firearms dealers are required to run background checks on those buying guns, but studies estimate that nearly 40 percent of all gun sales are made by private sellers who are exempt from this requirement. (Source: President Obama’s gun-violence prevention plan.)

Sen. Jack Reed, Jan. 16: According to the Brady Campaign, about 40 percent of gun sales happen with no background checks. We can do better and must do better. (Source: Press release.)


Rep. Marcia Fudge, Jan. 14: Under current federal law, background checks are only required for gun sales at licensed dealers. According to Mayors Against Illegal Guns, approximately 6.6 million guns are sold each year in America by unlicensed private sellers. That translates to 40 percent of all U.S. gun sales. (Source: Congressional Record.)

 

[FLDomer]

We don't know the exact number but it is an estimated based off of these studys/surveys. Rather it is 6.6 million, 5 million, or 8 million we know there is a lot.

I read it and hear what you are saying but I really still nothing of how they come up with this estimate...I just did a survey and estimated that Im the strongest, best looking man in America, my survey club may be biased, my mom, my son, my daughter and my wife....but I can support these findings with graphs

 

[Cackalacky]

I read it and hear what you are saying but I really still nothing of how they come up with this estimate...I just did a survey and estimated that Im the strongest, best looking man in America, my survey club may be biased, my mom, my son, my daughter and my wife....but I can support these findings with graphs

They could track the production of the manufacturer's and cross reference with the inventory of sellers.... wait... they are supposed to do that, but are not allowed to do that.. and the ATF does not have enough funding or man power to inspect frequently enough because they are underfunded..... HEY WAIT A MINUTE>>>>>>

 

[ACamp1900]

How is this a fact if there is now way of tracing private transfers, and those without background checks??

It's a fact because the liberal lord of the manor says so... if only he would actually spend as much time working on issues rather than campaigning on them, maybe we'd get somewhere.



Knocking our ‘leader’ aside… I am all for cutting loop holes and strengthening background checks/’the process’… just not this crazy talk about outright bans.

 

[FLDomer]

It's a fact because the liberal lord of the manor says so... if only he would actually spend as much time working on issues rather than campaigning on them, maybe we'd get somewhere.



Knocking our ‘leader’ aside… I am all for cutting loop holes and strengthening background checks/’the process’… just not this crazy talk about outright bans.

LOL, I too am fine with running backgrounds on firearm sales, fine with me, I would prefer to buy my weapons from a place reputable enough to have an FFL. I like you am not a fan of the out right bans.

 

[Cackalacky]

It's a fact because the liberal lord of the manor says so... if only he would actually spend as much time working on issues rather than campaigning on them, maybe we'd get somewhere.



Knocking our ‘leader’ aside… I am all for cutting loop holes and strengthening background checks/’the process’… just not this crazy talk about outright bans.

The ATF:
-has no director

-cannot establish a centralized database of transactions and is forced to use outdated handwritten and printed materials to track anything

-The Firearm Owners Protection Act of 1986 prohibits A.T.F. agents from making more than one unannounced inspection per year of licensed gun dealers. The law also reduced the falsification of records by dealers to a misdemeanor and put in place vague language defining what it meant to “engage in business” without a dealer’s license.

-The Tiahrt Amendment, named after and proposed by Republican Rep Todd Tiahrt (and written by the NRA) hides from researchers, press, politicians and the public valuable information on crime guns that has been used to identify the sources of illegal guns, as well as to establish the effectiveness of policies to prevent illegal guns. The Tiahrt Amendment makes law enforcement’s job a whole lot more difficult by requiring background checks to be destroyed in 24 hours and by barring annual inventory audits by gun shops

Our illustrious leader cannot even get a director in place due to republican opposition.... yeah, its his fault.... legislation was passed during republican controlled times to basically neuter the ATF.... and its Obama's fault........

People want the ATF to do their job, and when they can't because they have basically had all resources taken away through legislation, people get upset....

Would you be willing to have an ATF director, a purging of the legislation that hampers the ATF, and a central database to track sales? It sounds like it to me. There is only one group of people standing in the way of that happening.

 

[ACamp1900]

Our illustrious leader cannot even get a director in place due to republican opposition.... yeah, its his fault.... its Obama's fault.........

Good to know we agree on something.

 

[irishpat183]

I once said "that's the dumbest, most idiotic statement I've ever read" Then along come these two geniuses.

My question was more in reference to what does Lennon and his terrible music have to do with modern day gun laws?


I am not a genius. But I'm brilliant at acting like one

 

[irishpat183]

If you are going to talk about Lennon's political views, you cannot do so acurately without talking about his fervor for pursuing peace in the world. His organized political affilitations were with Abbie Hoffman and the Yippies who protested against the war in Vietnam.

Lennon was an artist, and his conceptional nation of "Nutopia" was a device for him to speak of his view of a utopian world, not unlike the lyrics to the song Imagine, which may well be the most recongnized song by people throughout the world. It really doesn't matter what anyone would think if he were a member of a less popular band because he wasn't. The Beatles are arguable the best and most accomplished bands in history and much of the credit for that success can be attributed to John Lennon. He used his significant celebrity status to focus attention on causes he believed in. The height of his popularity came in, perhaps, the most volitile point in America's social and political history and he was an important player in much of that history. So that you suggest he was "always in the middle of some uproar or conspiracy" is testiment to his effectiveness.

To many, attacking John Lennon is akin to attacking Ghandi or Mother Teresa. And while you are certainly entitled to your opinion, you should know that there are people of all walks of life and across multiple generations that would find your statements offensive. I would think that a person who was a waste of human life wouldn't have been worth your time in talking about ... or reading a post this long about.

Ahhh yes. The same peaceful hippies that threw things at vets returning home, called them names, even used physical violence?

I do, in fact, find those people offensive

 

[irishpat183]

Its amazing that some of you are fighting for background checks and stiffer penalites on citizens.

But you're ok with our government selling guns to cartels (some used to kill our own people) without proper procedure.

Amazing. And you call the private citizen "irresponsible".

You know how many "mass shootings" our government is responsible for??????

 

[Cackalacky]

Good to know we agree on something.

I don't agree with that. Especially that you changed the context of my statement. Poor form man.

 

[irishpat183]

Thank God for Liberals keeping guys like this off the streets. Nice job.


Cuomo’s NY SAFE Act Nabs Its First Gun Owner: Iraq War Vet Arrested For Selling 10-Round Magazine, AR-15… | Weasel Zippers

 

[irishpat183]

I'm sure there is a bleeding heart on here that can point these fine young gentlemen in the right direction?

[/IMG]

 

[ACamp1900]

I don't agree with that. Especially that you changed the context of my statement. Poor form man.

There is no reason to be serious on that matter.... you will excuse his lack of leadership... and I will refuse to take "It's all the republicans fault" as a valid excuse for anything at this point. disagree?

so we might as well laugh at it.

 

[phgreek]

Thank God for Liberals keeping guys like this off the streets. Nice job.


Cuomo’s NY SAFE Act Nabs Its First Gun Owner: Iraq War Vet Arrested For Selling 10-Round Magazine, AR-15… | Weasel Zippers

...he must not have given his vow to take up arms against american citizens if the "need" arises...

...how about we give the guy a break here...he is holding merchandise that was once legal...buy him out if you don't want him to sell it...I mean hell, folks were more leniant with asbestos phase out...this is stupid...NY has really gone police/nany state crazy...sad.

But hey...No .50 cals for those jackasses...I like the sounds of that!

 

[DSully1995]

I'm sure there is a bleeding heart on here that can point these fine young gentlemen in the right direction?

[/IMG]

I feel sorry for you Irishpat, living in a constant fear that drug lords will come to your house and murder you, must be a ****** time.

 

[ACamp1900]

I feel sorry for you Irishpat, living in a constant fear that drug lords will come to your house and murder you, must be a ****** time.

As I have said already, I have had gang members invade a friend’s house and kill his parents, they did not have guns.

I lost a niece to a murder... no guns.

My parents live in an area known as one of the very worst in all of California in terms of gang related crime, they have been robbed , have had a race riot (really) break out on their front lawn that required more than a dozen responders to stop, had a neighbor killed three houses down and any house that gets a guard dog routinely has it poisoned within a couple weeks...

Just this morning someone broke into a house on my street, and I live in a much better area,... the officer I spoke to before heading to work let me know it was a 'blood' who did it.

I feel for anyone who thinks people shouldn't have to worry and shouldn't have the right to protect themselves against such things, hopefully reality won't hit at any point.

 

[irishpat183]

I feel sorry for you Irishpat, living in a constant fear that drug lords will come to your house and murder you, must be a ****** time.

Who said these guys are drug lords?

And who says I'm afraid?

 

[irishpat183]

As I have said already, I have had gang members invade a friend’s house and kill his parents, they did not have guns.

I lost a niece to a murder... no guns.

My parents live in an area known as one of the very worst in all of California in terms of gang related crime, they have been robbed , have had a race riot (really) break out on their front lawn that required more than a dozen responders to stop, had a neighbor killed three houses down and any house that gets a guard dog routinely has it poisoned within a couple weeks...

Just this morning someone broke into a house on my street, and I live in a much better area,... the officer I spoke to before heading to work let me know it was a 'blood' who did it.

I feel for anyone who thinks people shouldn't have to worry and shouldn't have the right to protect themselves against such things, hopefully reality won't hit at any point.

Don't you know, Acamp? They're not worried about actual victims. They're worried about the criminals.

Crime against legal gun owners doesn't happen.

 

[phgreek]

I feel for anyone who thinks people shouldn't have to worry and shouldn't have the right to protect themselves against such things, hopefully reality won't hit at any point.

...This is generally why I don't like this duscussion much. whole lot of folks projecting their reality on everyone else...Don't think you need a gun...cool...telling someone else, or alluding to the fact that someone else doesn't...thats ridiculous.

 

[irishpat183]

...This is generally why I don't like this duscussion much. whole lot of folks projecting their reality on everyone else...Don't think you need a gun...cool...telling someone else, or alluding to the fact that someone else doesn't...thats ridiculous.

EXACTLY!

You don't need a gun because I said so. Don't worry, nothing will happen to you.


Antonio Santiago Shooting: Suspects in Georgia baby's murder face first court appearances - Crimesider - CBS News

 

[DSully1995]

...This is generally why I don't like this duscussion much. whole lot of folks projecting their reality on everyone else...Don't think you need a gun...cool...telling someone else, or alluding to the fact that someone else doesn't...thats ridiculous.

Well thats just what government does. everything it passes is to influence behavior in a positive way (in its opinion).
and irishpat , criminals if you want to, but man there are places where you dont have to worry about stuff like that (or nearly as much) (not saying your afraid) just an observation

 

[ACamp1900]

Well thats just what government does. everything it passes is to influence behavior in a positive way (in its opinion)

That would be wonderful if we were all robots... or had no notion of freedom.

 

[DSully1995]

That would be wonderful if we were all robots... or had no notion of freedom.

It has benefits, no one contests the legality of red lights, most people view the Benefit worth the cost, whats your cost is the question

 

[phgreek]

Well thats just what government does. everything it passes is to influence behavior in a positive way (in its opinion).

Interesting...kinda like the mortgage deduction, married heterosexual benefits, Children benefits...ya know how the government once thought its job was to promote the traditinal family, and put things in place to "reward" those who sought that. All the data shows this is the best thing for ANY society.

...yet most of the things government has architected in support of traditional families are under fire from "fair" mavens....and represents less "benefit" than the aid programs that promote and perpetuate behavior totally inconsistant with traditional family.

Bottom line...when government gets in it...it attaches "right" to things that aren't rights and infringes on things that are already rights. In this modern era, the moment you stake out an issue as something the Federal Government should be involved in...you doom it to the worst of any given political party because the parties are so caustic and aggressive, and rarely do we undo anything in our legislative system.

Right now...ANYTHING of consequence .....well I'm a fan of gridloack lest these children masquerading as politicians be allowed to "guide" things for our "good".

 

[phgreek]

It has benefits, no one contests the legality of red lights, most people view the Benefit worth the cost, whats your cost is the question

this is true in cases where public safety is weighed against liberty.

However, its kind of a trick "question". We know at the onset of this nation we were warned about trading liberty for safety...central to that discussion is guns.

red lights actually help traffic and people move...they only happen when the reality of existance at that point is that people are restricted. Therein usually lies the thing most often mistaken for public safety motives which then gets "offset" with liberty, and used as presedent for doing it. Speed limit...a creation of our lib friends to conserve gas... You saying gun control will result in more people with guns having more liberty to use them?

Sure there are examples of things done only in the interest of publc safety...but this is in more recent time and it generally sucks...see mayor bloomburg.

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

Connecticut governor signs sweeping gun measure - CNN.com