'13 IN ATH Jaylon Smith (Notre Dame Man & Graduate)

[Bogtrotter07]

And to dispel a few myths:

1) Jaylon will not weight 250 and be able to run in the next year. (He is just really over 200lbs.) He may never be 250. The dude runs a 4.4 forty. Why do you want to slow that down?

2) Danny Spond is just as much of a freak as Jaylon. Danny weighs 248, and Bob Diaco had no problem in playing him at cornerback in the dime package! Cornerback; dime package; 248lbs! If you need any further proof of my thesis, watch the replay of the play from the Michigan game where Danny tracks Denard across, and punches the ball from his hands. Two things about Denard, whether you think he sucks or not, Denard has the ability to move laterally and then accelerate from south to north as fast as any player I have ever seen, and Denard's grip strength is beyond awesome! Danny is the only player I have seen with the athleticism to get his timing on Denard, and have the strength when he showed up to smack the ball loose like a round out of my .357Magnum.

3) Jaylon may actually be red-shirted next year. Look at the numbers game at CAT. Kelly loves red-shirting guys of monumental talent, to get maximum development. He has said as much regularly.

 

[ThePiombino]

And to dispel a few myths:

1) Jaylon will not weight 250 and be able to run in the next year. (He is just really over 200lbs.) He may never be 250. The dude runs a 4.4 forty. Why do you want to slow that down?

2) Danny Spond is just as much of a freak as Jaylon. Danny weighs 248, and Bob Diaco had no problem in playing him at cornerback in the dime package! Cornerback; dime package; 248lbs! If you need any further proof of my thesis, watch the replay of the play from the Michigan game where Danny tracks Denard across, and punches the ball from his hands. Two things about Denard, whether you think he sucks or not, Denard has the ability to move laterally and then accelerate from south to north as fast as any player I have ever seen, and Denard's grip strength is beyond awesome! Danny is the only player I have seen with the athleticism to get his timing on Denard, and have the strength when he showed up to smack the ball loose like a round out of my .357Magnum.

3) Jaylon may actually be red-shirted next year. Look at the numbers game at CAT. Kelly loves red-shirting guys of monumental talent, to get maximum development. He has said as much regularly.

I like you, but if you honestly believe Jaylon gets red-shirted next year you might wanna get your home checked for carbon monoxide leaks.

 

[ryno 24]

yea the numbers game is quite right but Jaylon Smith is just too good of an athlete to redshirt. He can play some dog, nickel, pass rush, almost anything. Plus he will be huge on special teams

 

[ThePiombino]

yea the numbers game is quite right but Jaylon Smith is just too good of an athlete to redshirt. He can play some dog, nickel, pass rush, almost anything. Plus he will be huge on special teams

Plus, given his immense talent, the likelihood of him sticking around for a 5th year, with degree in hand, is highly unlikely. Why deprive him/the team of a year of him on the field making plays.

 

[IrishLax]

Jaylon will play a ton next year. At minimum I expect him on the field on almost every passing down.

 

[Ironman8]

Jaylon will play a ton next year. At minimum I expect him on the field on almost every passing down.

With the kids we have now, if I see Ishaq 10 yards deep in coverage on 3rd down again I am going to freak out.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

I like you, but if you honestly believe Jaylon gets red-shirted next year you might wanna get your home checked for carbon monoxide leaks.

Gosh, I would hate to see the lack of respect you have for someone you don't like!

Here is my verbage: "may actually be red-shirted next year. So you can save on providing another carbon monoxide monitor/alarm.

If you want to know how it will work I will tell you. Jaylon will come in and Paul Longo will evaluate him. There will be scientific tests conducted. If he falls into the "massively benefits from development" category, he will be redshirted. If his progress is enough, or they determine his physical development will be limited by his physical maturity they will not redshirt him.

I am not a believer that he will be redshirted. But I don't expect the walking on water miracles that I have heard in many posts on this thread.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

With the kids we have now, if I see Ishaq 10 yards deep in coverage on 3rd down again I am going to freak out.

What do you think they are going to do with Ishaq next year? Honestly, bringing Jaylon in as a CAT makes me wonder. And I can't tell if rumors about Ben Councell moving inside are true either. Something up, what you think?

 

[Ironman8]

What do you think they are going to do with Ishaq next year? Honestly, bringing Jaylon in as a CAT makes me wonder. And I can't tell if rumors about Ben Councell moving inside are true either. Something up, what you think?

I really hope he turns it on this coming year, because he has all the tools to be a great pass rusher, but I don't like him playing deep in coverage, especially with the other options we are accumulating.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

I really hope he turns it on this coming year, because he has all the tools to be a great pass rusher, but I don't like him playing deep in coverage, especially with the other options we are accumulating.

Do you think they are going to turn him into a rush defensive end? His body is getting a bit thicker. He has not lost a step. Dude is really quick, and he is pretty damned big. I am wondering, Mr. Ironman, if we will see big time changes in the positions key players line up.

Further, comrade, if Ben Councell moves inside, this gives us a defensive front seven of Titanic proportions.

 

[Domina Nostra]

Not going to happen, but I like to imagine:

CAT: Shembo/Williams
MIKE: Grace/Calabrese
WILL: Spond/Fox
DOG: Smith/Councell

To me, that gets the most talent on the field at once. And I ussually agree that freshman don't start, but this is Top 5 player. The most athletic kid we've seen in a long time.

 

[Ironman8]

Do you think they are going to turn him into a rush defensive end? His body is getting a bit thicker. He has not lost a step. Dude is really quick, and he is pretty damned big. I am wondering, Mr. Ironman, if we will see big time changes in the positions key players line up.

Further, comrade, if Ben Councell moves inside, this gives us a defensive front seven of Titanic proportions.

Certainly possible. We played a good amount of 4 man fronts last year, and Ishaq would fit into that end spot well, especially if he continues to develop.

I am very interested to see if they put Jayon at CAT or DOG, and the possible repercussions for other players of that move. Either way, the quality depth of our OLBs is pretty exciting. I just hope the Werewolf can step into some big shoes at Mike.

 

[Luckylucci]

Love Danny spond but not the athlete that jaylon is. He's definitely made some plays but they are not the same athlete

 

[IrishLax]

Also to set the record straight on Jaylon and weight and 40s... he doesn't run a 4.4. Less than a dozen prospects a year at any position run close to a 4.4. He got timed under a 4.6 at a combine... so if you want to be generous you can say 4.5 which is as good as or better than most NFL WRs. And he weighed in at 212 and is probably up near 220 now.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Love Danny spond but not the athlete that jaylon is. He's definitely made some plays but they are not the same athlete

No he is not, he is 36 lbs heavier, and has three years experience playing Division 1 football. The difference in their speed is negligible.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Certainly possible. We played a good amount of 4 man fronts last year, and Ishaq would fit into that end spot well, especially if he continues to develop.

I am very interested to see if they put Jayon at CAT or DOG, and the possible repercussions for other players of that move. Either way, the quality depth of our OLBs is pretty exciting. I just hope the Werewolf can step into some big shoes at Mike.

In the Mattison article Jaylon is quoted as saying Diaco said he was recruited at CAT, (exclusively, I believe). I wonder if they plan on moving him around?

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Also to set the record straight on Jaylon and weight and 40s... he doesn't run a 4.4. Less than a dozen prospects a year at any position run close to a 4.4. He got timed under a 4.6 at a combine... so if you want to be generous you can say 4.5 which is as good as or better than most NFL WRs. And he weighed in at 212 and is probably up near 220 now.

Thank you. Jaylon is rapidly becoming the stuff of which legends are made. Exclusively.

 

[STLDomer]

Certainly possible. We played a good amount of 4 man fronts last year, and Ishaq would fit into that end spot well, especially if he continues to develop.

I am very interested to see if they put Jayon at CAT or DOG, and the possible repercussions for other players of that move. Either way, the quality depth of our OLBs is pretty exciting. I just hope the Werewolf can step into some big shoes at Mike.

Agreed

If Jaylon plays CAT I think Ishaq should move to DE
If Jaylon plays DOG I think Councell should move to WILL

Also curious as to where Okwara plays

 

[WakeUpEchoes]

Also to set the record straight on Jaylon and weight and 40s... he doesn't run a 4.4. Less than a dozen prospects a year at any position run close to a 4.4. He got timed under a 4.6 at a combine... so if you want to be generous you can say 4.5 which is as good as or better than most NFL WRs. And he weighed in at 212 and is probably up near 220 now.

This is a quote from Josh Helmholdt, from rivals:

"And then he can cover like a cornerback," said Josh Helmholdt, Midwest analyst for Rivals.com, which ranks Smith the No. 3 overall player in the nation. "That's a freakish athlete. The guy runs a 4.4 40 (yard-dash). He may be the most athletic linebacker I've covered in 10 years of doing this. He's that special."

I've read multiple other articles that have him at a 4.4 as well.

 

[Ironman8]

In the Mattison article Jaylon is quoted as saying Diaco said he was recruited at CAT, (exclusively, I believe). I wonder if they plan on moving him around?

I'll trust the staff in their assessments of players and where best they can be utilized, but I am of the opinion that a LB who demonstrated generational type cover skills in his film, at camps, etc should utilize those said skills, especially when they are so rare. Much easier to find a player who can rush the passer than cover WRs, RBs and TEs while not sacrificing in other areas at the LB spot.

 

[IrishLax]

This is a quote from Josh Helmholdt, from rivals:



I've read multiple other articles that have him at a 4.4 as well.

It's hyperbole. He doesn't run a 4.4. Keith Marshall ran around a 4.4 and Jaylon Smith is not Keith Marshall.

EDIT: For reference, here are time from The Opening. Jaylon ran a 4.59 at that combine and I've never seen him clock an electronic sub 4.5 time anywhere. Only two kids at The Opening ran a 4.4 or better. Other interesting top finishers... Ezekiel Elliot ran a 4.42 (wow!) and Delano Hill (Michigan safety commit and someone I tabbed as a huge sleeper long ago) ran a blazing 4.44.

ESPNHS 2012 SPARQ Combine Test Unofficial Results - Jul. 6, 2012 - ESPNHS

 

[Grahambo]

I'll trust the staff in their assessments of players and where best they can be utilized, but I am of the opinion that a LB who demonstrated generational type cover skills in his film, at camps, etc should utilize those said skills, especially when they are so rare. Much easier to find a player who can rush the passer than cover WRs, RBs and TEs while not sacrificing in other areas at the LB spot.

Agreed...however, it all depends on how well he picks up coverage assignments in the beginning. If he is not as quick in his decision making in pass coverage then he becomes a liability no matter how athletic he is. I think, while he will most certainly have the chance to prove himself, he will be more of get after the QB/run stuffer LB, at least in the beginning of his career.

 

[NDinL.A.]

And to dispel a few myths:

1) Jaylon will not weight 250 and be able to run in the next year. (He is just really over 200lbs.) He may never be 250. The dude runs a 4.4 forty. Why do you want to slow that down?

Agreed.

2) Danny Spond is just as much of a freak as Jaylon. Danny weighs 248, and Bob Diaco had no problem in playing him at cornerback in the dime package! Cornerback; dime package; 248lbs! If you need any further proof of my thesis, watch the replay of the play from the Michigan game where Danny tracks Denard across, and punches the ball from his hands. Two things about Denard, whether you think he sucks or not, Denard has the ability to move laterally and then accelerate from south to north as fast as any player I have ever seen, and Denard's grip strength is beyond awesome! Danny is the only player I have seen with the athleticism to get his timing on Denard, and have the strength when he showed up to smack the ball loose like a round out of my .357Magnum.

I don't agree with you here. Jaylon is a different breed. Spond is nice, and I love him to death (and I think he'll hold onto his spot all year personally), but coming out of high school, he and Smith weren't/aren't on the same level. Scouts from all over the nation have come away shaking their heads at how Jaylon can get after the QB on one play, and then completely shut down some of the top receivers in the nation on the next play. This happened all the time. Danny was a 3/4 star coming out of h.s. with some pretty good offers, but he was a CU commit before ND came calling. (And I realize h.s. rankings don't mean much and AA camps/games don' either, but that's all I can compare since that's all Jaylon has done.)

And Against Bama, Danny was rendered pretty much ineffective. Jaylon is the type of athlete that can play on the same field as the Bama's of the world and still stand out. There's a reason every single school in the nation would want him right now, and why coaches like Mattison, Urbie and Kiffy (among many others, no doubt) are calling him still to this day. Kid is a difference-maker and a freak. #3 recruit in Rivals? Wow. Danny is a stud and a bit of a freak himself, but not on Jaylon's level, is all I'm saying.

3) Jaylon may actually be red-shirted next year. Look at the numbers game at CAT. Kelly loves red-shirting guys of monumental talent, to get maximum development. He has said as much regularly.

I gotta disagree here too bogs. Kelly hasn't done the bolded part at ND. Not even close really, other than O-Linemen (which is smart and almost everyone does). 5 star guys like Tuitt, Ishaq, Koyack and Lynch all played as freshman. 4 star guys like Baratti, Russell, Shumate, Tai'lor Jones, GAIII, Niklas, Day, and Neal all played as freshman. Hell, even a freak like the 17 year-old baby Romeo Okwara played this past year.

So yeah, there's some instances where BK will hold a guy off if he needs to mature or he's not ready yet (Kiel, Jones and Nix) but for the large majority, he plays freshmen that he feels are ready. And coaches that want to keep their jobs aren't going to be in the habit of redshirting superstar freshmen...those guys come to play and will not be happy if they have to sit when they think they are ready (see: Ishaq), and being far from home, will want to transfer. Not saying it's right, just stating their mindsets. Other high schoolers will see that and want to know why those kids keep getting redshirted. And other than Kiel (right move), there hasn't been a 5 star redshirted under Kelly...

So I think at the minimum, you'll see Jaylon and his speed playing special teams, just like Okwara. I put that at 98% certainty IMO. I think we'll see him more personally...

 

[Luckylucci]

Bogs, you got a crazy man crush on Spond.

 

[Old Man Mike]

Next season we will return three out of four starting linebackers all of whom were plenty good [The Fox/Calabreese tandem had as many tackles, give or take, as Manti did]. Looking at the roster, it would take a brave man to toss Spond, Shembo, or Fox to the bench. Spond has a high quality backup [Councell]. Shembo has a high potential backup [Williams]. If Carlo stays [debatable], then Fox has a high quality backup. Three out of four spots with two-deep experience and high quality proven playing ability.

Up steps Grace, who to every sign is legit, and groomed. In comes Jaylon, who to every sign is the most talented athlete of the lot. That's eight for eight spots on the two-deep. (I am deliberately "forgetting about" Randolph, Deeb, Moore, Rabasa, and Okwara --- the latter of whom I am strongly hoping develops into an Earth-moving mauler of a DE. I am forgetting about them, because if I don't I'm more confused than I am now.)

WHERE do the eight guys go as to their primary positions? If you keep all the current studs where they are, then Jaylon becomes a MIKE --- doesn't sound right, though, does it? If Jaylon goes CAT, then Ishaq actually "disappears". MAYBE that actually happens if Ishaq doesn't get moving, but you would think to bet against it. If Jaylon goes DOG, then he's second team to Spond unless Danny moves to WILL, and Fox becomes second team, or he moves to challenge Grace. Or Councell moves to WILL or MIKE [WILL seems better --- this perfectly interchangeable stuff about WILL and MIKE might be dreamwork ideal, but it is BS].

This is FAR too complex to unravel with no more than we know. But it's off-season, so:

1). Shembo backed up by Smith or Okwara [Williams loses his job];
2). Spond backed up by Smith or Councell;
3). Fox backed up by Councell or Calabreese [Randolph if Calabreese not back];
4]. Grace backed up by Calabreese [Deeb, not Moore, if no Calabreese].

Starters: Shembo/ Fox/ Grace/ Spond ["Dance with the girl you brought to the prom"].
Jaylon Smith plays a bunch at both OLB positions.
Williams gets specialty minutes at DE; Moore plays "Filer".
Calabreese probably returns [Kelly is heavy about that sort of decision], and backs up both ILB positions.

 

[IrishFBfanatic]

Jaylon is not redshirting. Period.

He's also around 225-230 now and looks the part. Kid was skinny in season, but has packed it on in the offseason already. If ND wants him at 240 he will be 240 when he enrolls (or whatever weight they want him).

 

[clashmore_mike]

Also to set the record straight on Jaylon and weight and 40s... he doesn't run a 4.4. Less than a dozen prospects a year at any position run close to a 4.4. He got timed under a 4.6 at a combine... so if you want to be generous you can say 4.5 which is as good as or better than most NFL WRs. And he weighed in at 212 and is probably up near 220 now.

I heard he is sneaking whoppers on his break at BK. Might be a smidge heavier than that.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

I'll trust the staff in their assessments of players and where best they can be utilized, but I am of the opinion that a LB who demonstrated generational type cover skills in his film, at camps, etc should utilize those said skills, especially when they are so rare. Much easier to find a player who can rush the passer than cover WRs, RBs and TEs while not sacrificing in other areas at the LB spot.

That is exactly what I thought. I saw Jaylon as DOG. There are a couple things at play. Maybe in his first year they are going to move him around. Because there is Kelly's wild card comment, which I have a gut feeling is really important. He stated in one interview that each was the mirror of the other, less the wide side of the field. So maybe they are going to change the scheme, making the outside linebackers mirrors of each other, and use someone else for pressure.

Someone else just alluded to it, but I have heard rumors of Ben C being brolic, and not being kept off the field. What chance of Ben playing some will? He laid out a few licks this year when I saw him, and he has some real foot speed. Maybe as much as Jaylon. Danny Spond is in there too. Do you realize how freakishly fast our linebackers are?

The only one I can think of that is not really fast, (anymore), is Carlo.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

And Against Bama, Danny was rendered pretty much ineffective. Jaylon is the type of athlete that can play on the same field as the Bama's of the world and still stand out. There's a reason every single school in the nation would want him right now, and why coaches like Mattison, Urbie and Kiffy (among many others, no doubt) are calling him still to this day. Kid is a difference-maker and a freak. #3 recruit in Rivals? Wow. Danny is a stud and a bit of a freak himself, but not on Jaylon's level, is all I'm saying.

For everybody, once and for all, Jaylon has not played a down of college football yet. And you all have it as a forgone conclusion that he will be the best ever.

I didn't see Danny one bit less effective than the rest of the ND defense, and most of the problem was an epic tactical failure rivaling Navy '10. I think it is an extreme disservice to lay the blame for the NC game at the feet of anyone but the staff. (I love the staff because they got us there, and remember how positive a homer I was labeled three months ago?)

I really mean it. Jaylon hasn't done anything in college, yet. If you want a cautionary tale, watch a tape of the Leurs-Whitmer game. Jaylon was in a class by himself but completely neutralized by a team with tactical superiority. The Whitmer team ran where he wasn't. And keyed on him when he was in the game on offense, thereby held him to one pass reception for about thirty yards. The kid could have torn up if they would have moved him around on defense, and set up his running game by playing to others early, and just not relying on him when they were in the hole. The point? Much of the factors of his success are out of his hands. Expecting the world out of him as a freshman is dysfunctional and unfair.

Quote:
3) Jaylon may actually be red-shirted next year. Look at the numbers game at CAT. Kelly loves red-shirting guys of monumental talent, to get maximum development. He has said as much regularly.

I gotta disagree here too bogs. Kelly hasn't done the bolded part at ND. Not even close really, other than O-Linemen (which is smart and almost everyone does). 5 star guys like Tuitt, Ishaq, Koyack and Lynch all played as freshman. 4 star guys like Baratti, Russell, Shumate, Tai'lor Jones, GAIII, Niklas, Day, and Neal all played as freshman. Hell, even a freak like the 17 year-old baby Romeo Okwara played this past year.

Kelly hasn't been able to do that yet. Not with Tuitt, Ishaq, Koyack, Lynch, Baratti, Russell, Shumate, Tai'lor Jones, GAIII, Niklas, Day, and Neal. But they Romeo Okwara is the perfect example. Romeo was given when Danny Spond was out and it was CJ and Romeo, and no one. (Did CJ even weigh 200 lbs.?) Day, the coaches stated did not need to wait, physically as well as mentally; there was no advantage to shirting him. Kelly did say he would have saved Manti if he was in a position that he could. As far as the db's they played because things got so bad so quick that Bobby suggested tryouts under fire to see what they really had in the back end.

So yeah, there's some instances where BK will hold a guy off if he needs to mature or he's not ready yet (Kiel, Jones and Nix) but for the large majority, he plays freshmen that he feels are ready.

This is exactly what I said.

 

[Luckylucci]

I don't think anybody is saying we expect the world out of this kid his freshman year, it takes time. However when a kid has the potential that jaylon has you have to get him on the field and get him experience with the understanding that his ceiling is significantly higher than that of a Spond. I fully expect that as a college junior jaylon will be a big upgrade