'13 AZ DB Priest Willis (UCLA Signed LOI)

[West Coast Domer]

To think so many people criticized Dan Guerrero (UCLA Ad) about the Mora hire. Yes its been only one year but that program has seen huge improvements in only one year. Love to see the trojans scared

 

[ALLGATOR]

Willis apparently mentioned at his PC that he would be recruiting EV to join him.

Looking that their recruiting class they need DLmen.

 

[arrowryan]

Looking that their recruiting class they need DLmen.

So do we

 

[NOLAIrish]

I've gotta say, I'm of two minds about the potential UCLA resurgence. It's great to see a school shred USC's stranglehold on southern California, but between UCLA, SC and Stanford, it could get really difficult to pull players out of that state. You can't really recruit against them on academics (I understand the athletes/non-athletes figures, but I think all three pass the minimum threshold required to neutralize that edge for recruiting purposes) or location.

On the other hand, Texas could be opening up a bit with UT and OU fading, and that's probably a more natural pipeline for Notre Dame than California, all things considered. I don't think A&M will maintain more than second-tier status in the SEC and ND's assets play better against them than against UT.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I've gotta say, I'm of two minds about the potential UCLA resurgence. It's great to see a school shred USC's stranglehold on southern California, but between UCLA, SC and Stanford, it could get really difficult to pull players out of that state. You can't really recruit against them on academics (I understand the athletes/non-athletes figures, but I think all three pass the minimum threshold required to neutralize that edge for recruiting purposes) or location.

They only graduate 51% of their African American football players. ND graduates 100%. You don't think that's an effective sales pitch?

 

[NOLAIrish]

They only graduate 51% of their African American football players. ND graduates 100%. You don't think that's an effective sales pitch?

It's entirely possible that I'm biased against the strength of academic pitches simply because I'm primarily exposed to recruiting in the South. My impression, though, is that, even for those recruits that place a high value on academics, it serves only as a minimum threshold. Beyond that, I'm just not sure how much the message resonates with high school kids.

To the extent that it does, though, you've got to get past Stanford. The message could very well still get through to some of those kids. On balance, though, I think the growth of UCLA makes it harder to pull academically-minded athletes from southern California unless USC faces a dramatic decline.

Maybe that's overly pessimistic: I agree that it shouldn't make the academic argument more difficult, because I think those figures are quite important.

 

[Buster Bluth]

It's entirely possible that I'm biased against the strength of academic pitches simply because I'm primarily exposed to recruiting in the South. My impression, though, is that, even for those recruits that place a high value on academics, it serves only as a minimum threshold. Beyond that, I'm just not sure how much the message resonates with high school kids.

It resonates with Notre Dame/Stanford kids.

 

[NOLAIrish]

It resonates with Notre Dame/Stanford kids.

I just don't buy that it does. I can't recall a player mentioning African American GSR ever. And only rarely do I remember them mentioning GSR, generally. It popped up a few times this year as the story about Notre Dame being No. 1 both in GSR and in the polls made the rounds. In a typical year, though, how often do we even hear it mentioned by athletes? Compare that to "I like [University X], because they have a strong [whatever the kid wants to focus on] program."

And I think you're fighting against a pretty strong optimism bias with the GSR argument. If you show a smart kid those numbers, there's going to be a tendency for him to think, "Well, OK, but I'm one of the exceptional ones. I'll be fine." It's an awful steep hill to climb to get a 17-year-old who's always excelled both on the field and in the classroom to wrap his mind around the possibility that he might just be in the group that washes out.

Alright, I'll stop with the hand-waving.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I just don't buy that it does. I can't recall a player mentioning African American GSR ever. And only rarely do I remember them mentioning GSR, generally. It popped up a few times this year as the story about Notre Dame being No. 1 both in GSR and in the polls made the rounds. In a typical year, though, how often do we even hear it mentioned by athletes? Compare that to "I like [University X], because they have a strong [whatever the kid wants to focus on] program."

Virtually every African-American kid we recruit comments on our graduation rates at some time or another.

And I think you're fighting against a pretty strong optimism bias with the GSR argument. If you show a smart kid those numbers, there's going to be a tendency for him to think, "Well, OK, but I'm one of the exceptional ones. I'll be fine." It's an awful steep hill to climb to get a 17-year-old who's always excelled both on the field and in the classroom to wrap his mind around the possibility that he might just be in the group that washes out.

That's true, which is why you sell degree value as an insurance policy. Mention how few D1 players get drafted (~2%), the average length of an NFL career (~3 years), etc. Football doesn't last forever, and very very few players become independently wealth in the NFL. That's not a hard sell, imo.

And we hear this stuff from our recruits all the time: "ND is 40, not a 4, year decision"; "Football will end some day"; "An ND degree will set me up for life"; etc.

It's definitely a very different tact than taken by SEC schools, and I can't say it's more effective; selling sun, fun, skirts and fame to a teenager will always be easier than personal responsibility. But thankfully, there are usually adults involved in the recruit's decision-making process as well, and that's where we make up a lot of ground. ND offers a genuinely superior product to most of its competitors, and parents with the best interests of their kid in mind usually see that.

 

[DSully1995]

Max and his dad mentionned it, spmething like "100 percent GSR for AA, I like those odds"


EDIT: So keep preaching whiskey

 

[irishog77]

Virtually every African-American kid we recruit comments on our graduation rates at some time or another.



That's true, which is why you sell degree value as an insurance policy. Mention how few D1 players get drafted (~2%), the average length of an NFL career (~3 years), etc. Football doesn't last forever, and very very few players become independently wealth in the NFL. That's not a hard sell, imo.

And we hear this stuff from our recruits all the time: "ND is 40, not a 4, year decision"; "Football will end some day"; "An ND degree will set me up for life"; etc.

It's definitely a very different tact than taken by SEC schools, and I can't say it's more effective; selling sun, fun, skirts and fame to a teenager will always be easier than personal responsibility. But thankfully, there are usually adults involved the recruit's decision-making process as well, and that's where we make up a lot of ground. ND offers a genuinely superior product to most of its competitors, and parents with the best interests of their kid in mind usually see that.

Very true, and I agree. And I think is where ND HAS to try and differentiate itself from the pack. But I also think NOLA is on to something. So many kids (and not just football players) and parents these days are, for lack of a better term, just not good critical thinkers. For example, a new, shiny Communications building and lab at State School U = great Communications department. And let's face it, there's literally like 15 million awards out there in academia. Any school can tout its "award winning _____". And once again, "award winning" = great school or department to probably about 90% of America's population. And then there's the fact that soooo many kids (and their parents) attending college never believe they'll be the ___% that WON'T graduate.

I think all of this type of info you provide, Whiskey is great-- kids like Tori Hunter and his parents obviously take note and it matters. And there will ALWAYS be an appeal to ND for some kids and their parents based on this. Unfortunately, info like this will NEVER resonate with a sh!t-ton of kids out there. But this is where having a coach like Kelly and winning on the field can be an equalizer. It may seem counterintuitive, but I think ND HAS to be great off AND on the field to be a perennial BCS contender. The school can't allow its overall or its football academics to slip in order to be a point of difference compared to State School U, nor can it allow its football to fall off too much in order to be comparable to State School U.

 

[NOLAIrish]

Virtually every African-American kid we recruit comments on our graduation rates at some time or another.

The next sentence in that quote was meant to account for their mentions of GSR. I don't remember them specifically mentioning AA GSR. But it sounds like you're seeing them mention overall GSR more than I recall, and possibly AA GSR as well. Given your argument and my suspected bias, I'd put stock in your recollection over mine here.

That's true, which is why you sell degree value as an insurance policy. Mention how few D1 players get drafted (~2%), the average length of an NFL career (~3 years), etc. Football doesn't last forever, and very very few players become independently wealth in the NFL. That's not a hard sell, imo.

And we hear this stuff from our recruits all the time: "ND is 40, not a 4, year decision"; "Football will end some day"; "An ND degree will set me up for life"; etc.

It's definitely a very different tact than taken by SEC schools, and I can't say it's more effective; selling sun, fun, skirts and fame to a teenager will always be easier than personal responsibility. But thankfully, there are usually adults involved the recruit's decision-making process as well, and that's where we make up a lot of ground. ND offers a genuinely superior product to most of its competitors, and parents with the best interests of their kid in mind usually see that.

I'm a partial convert. The argument still doesn't play against Stanford. But my estimation of UCLA was too generous. The rise of both programs still raises concerns for me about the viability of SoCal as a national pipeline, but not to the extent I initially expressed.

 

[Emcee77]

I just don't buy that it does. I can't recall a player mentioning African American GSR ever. And only rarely do I remember them mentioning GSR, generally. It popped up a few times this year as the story about Notre Dame being No. 1 both in GSR and in the polls made the rounds. In a typical year, though, how often do we even hear it mentioned by athletes? Compare that to "I like [University X], because they have a strong [whatever the kid wants to focus on] program."

And I think you're fighting against a pretty strong optimism bias with the GSR argument. If you show a smart kid those numbers, there's going to be a tendency for him to think, "Well, OK, but I'm one of the exceptional ones. I'll be fine." It's an awful steep hill to climb to get a 17-year-old who's always excelled both on the field and in the classroom to wrap his mind around the possibility that he might just be in the group that washes out.

Alright, I'll stop with the hand-waving.

You've put your figure on two of the biggest mistakes kids make in choosing their future career paths, IMO. They get excited about the XYZ program, without taking into account that their interests may change or that the XYZ program may be difficult to complete or that the job market is tough to break into, and then they either drop out of the program or don't use their degree in XYZ in their careers. Or, just like so many kids entering law school today, they say "I've seen how bad the job market is, but I'll be one of the few successful ones. I've always been among the best and I always will be."

UGH. Like Whiskey says, you just have to hope that these kids are getting good advice from parents and other supporters.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

The next sentence in that quote was meant to account for their mentions of GSR. I don't remember them specifically mentioning AA GSR. But it sounds like you're seeing them mention overall GSR more than I recall, and possibly AA GSR as well. Given your argument and my suspected bias, I'd put stock in your recollection over mine here.

It can be hard to tell sometimes. Some mention ND's "99%" graduation rate, which could be a simple overstatement of our overall 97% Football GSR. Others refer to our "100%" graduation rate, which is probably a reference to our AA GSR.

I'm a partial convert. The argument still doesn't play against Stanford. But my estimation of UCLA was too generous. The rise of both programs still raises concerns for me about the viability of SoCal as a national pipeline, but not to the extent I initially expressed.

Fortunately for us, Stanford's AA GSR (78%) means we offer genuinely superior degree value to African-American recruits. But I agree that Stanford is arguably our most dangerous recruiting rival, as they're the only other program offering elite degree value and BCS caliber football.

We desperately need Stanford to regress back to its pre-Harbaugh mean as soon as possible. Here's hoping their 58th ranked 2013 recruiting class is indicative of Shaw's ability as a recruiter, and not just a fluke.

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

Very true, and I agree. And I think is where ND HAS to try and differentiate itself from the pack. But I also think NOLA is on to something. So many kids (and not just football players) and parents these days are, for lack of a better term, just not good critical thinkers. For example, a new, shiny Communications building and lab at State School U = great Communications department. And let's face it, there's literally like 15 million awards out there in academia. Any school can tout its "award winning _____". And once again, "award winning" = great school or department to probably about 90% of America's population. And then there's the fact that soooo many kids (and their parents) attending college never believe they'll be the ___% that WON'T graduate.

So true. As an example, Nebraska touts to kids that they have the most academic all americans in the country. Also, if any kid has interest in the FBI or CIA, FSU sells them that they have the #1 Criminal Justice department. Most kids don't realize that this can mean jack **** when trying to get into a government agency.

 

[NOLAIrish]

We desperately need Stanford to regress back to its pre-Harbaugh mean as soon as possible. Here's hoping their 58th ranked 2013 recruiting class is indicative of Shaw's ability as a recruiter, and not just a fluke.

I suspect this cycle is kind of a blip for them. The rise of UCLA could actually work in our favor here, though. If UCLA takes enough of a bite out of Stanford's recruiting to stall its ascent, they may be knocking out what would be our toughest recruiting competitor.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

So true. As an example, Nebraska touts to kids that they have the most academic all americans in the country. Also, if any kid has interest in the FBI or CIA, FSU sells them that they have the #1 Criminal Justice department. Most kids don't realize that this can mean jack **** when trying to get into a government agency.

I need to look into the criteria for selecting Academic All-Americans. That 'Bama troll was hammering on the Tide's superior number of AAAs as well. If ND and Stanford aren't at the top of that list, especially recently with how good both teams have been, something's definitely off with the methodology.

 

[irishog77]

I need to look into the criteria for selecting Academic All-Americans. That 'Bama troll was hammering on the Tide's superior number of AAAs as well. If ND and Stanford aren't at the top of that list, especially recently with how good both teams have been, something's definitely off with the methodology.

Good question. Seems like whenever we're watching games, we hear about a kid at whatever school with 3.3 GPA who is Academic All Conference and/or Academic All American.

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

I need to look into the criteria for selecting Academic All-Americans. That 'Bama troll was hammering on the Tide's superior number of AAAs as well. If ND and Stanford aren't at the top of that list, especially recently with how good both teams have been, something's definitely off with the methodology.

Good question. Seems like whenever we're watching games, we hear about a kid at whatever school with 3.3 GPA who is Academic All Conference and/or Academic All American.

How hard is it to get a 3.0 in Kinesiology at a state school?

 

[NDhoosier]

It can be hard to tell sometimes. Some mention ND's "99%" graduation rate, which could be a simple overstatement of our overall 97% Football GSR. Others refer to our "100%" graduation rate, which is probably a reference to our AA GSR.

I believe 97% is the number in regards to just football players while 99% is the number in regards to ND athletes across campus. So I believe both are technically correct.

 

[vmgsf]

Whiskeyjack keep hammering the message. Notre Dame is different. Notre Dame has incredible graduation rates because it will only accept a football player whom the Admissions Department (not the football coach) believes is capable of graduating and will graduate. And if the player is not going to class and he is not on track to graduate he will not play. Tuitt did not even make the trip to Purdue because he missed ONE class.

In my opinion, Stanford has good standards for gaining admission but once you are admitted it is up to you. Notre Dame acts in loco parentis and will make sure once your son is admitted he will toe the mark and do what he should do. This is why when parents understand this and their son likes Notre Dame, he will be wearing Blue and Gold.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Does anyone have any proof or statistics on what percent of high school football players actually plan on getting a college degree?

How about by stars? How many five stars versus three stars?

How about by parental economic status?

Because I have noticed the difference for years. Certain kids grew up with dreams to play football and their lives were shaped by other things, other influences.

Other kids grew up with a dream to play football and nothing affected that dream, and they don't care about doing anything else. They go to college because it is the path to the NFL. And when they fail, they will become a mechanic or a garbage man, or a fireman, or chronically employed.

 

[koonja]

Does anyone have any proof or statistics on what percent of high school football players actually plan on getting a college degree?

How about by stars? How many five stars versus three stars?

How about by parental economic status?

Because I have noticed the difference for years. Certain kids grew up with dreams to play football and their lives were shaped by other things, other influences.

Other kids grew up with a dream to play football and nothing affected that dream, and they don't care about doing anything else. They go to college because it is the path to the NFL. And when they fail, they will become a mechanic or a garbage man, or a fireman, or chronically employed.

I could be wrong, but I don't think anyone keeps track of that because of all of the variation among recruiting services. Now that 247 provides a composite rating, maybe they're going to start documenting.

 

[Old Man Mike]

To Whiskey: your information about recruiting "sales pitches" resonates FAR more realistically with the real world of recruiting than the fellow above trying to argue against it. There are several reasons why one can say this:

1). none of us nor that fellow are in the living rooms when Kelly, Martin, Alford, Diaco et al are there talking to the family. But if we step back and picture that scene we just might come to some common sense ideas about what it's like. And it's not going to be some paper-thin caricature of some 17-year-old standing around thinking shallowly about girls, weather, and what classes [if any] he wants to take. These will be serious discussions with depth to them.

2). The young man's FAMILY will be in that room. Older heads, VERY concerned with the bigger picture, will be listening and asking questions. Kelly's "RKGs" come from "Right Kinds of Parents". The broader and deeper issues will be explored.

3). Kelly says that he himself uses this deeper dimensional approach and it is not only the correct way but is successful with the students and their families.

Notre Dame's 'Way" is not only a successful in recruiting, but is "appropriate" for an institution which genuinely cares about the student part of student-athlete. It is blatantly obvious that plenty of young men and their families care about that.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

I could be wrong, but I don't think anyone keeps track of that because of all of the variation among recruiting services. Now that 247 provides a composite rating, maybe they're going to start documenting.

Don't get past my post. And don't mistake what I am saying. I enjoy people from all "classes" and "backgrounds." But from a socio-economic background there is a heck of a difference between a bunch of three and four stars, and many of the elite five stars. This happened in boxing over a forty year period of 100 to 60 years ago or so. It is happening in football, and that will be exacerbated by the latest NFL suit. I have plainly heard a lot of people are looking at the Seau suit, waiting to see, with a possibility of a lot of parties joining.

I am not talking gloom and doom. Boxing did not evolve to the next step. It remained, by and large, unchanged. If football adapts we all good. If it doesn't we will see. That isn't the point. The point is violent sports attract from two pools, those that have an extreme physical advantage, and those that come from socio-economic disadvantage. The more damagingly violent the greater the reward, the greater the draw from later.

 

[PraetorianND]

How hard is it to get a 3.0 in Kinesiology at a state school?

State schools (public schools) generally have lower average GPAs than private schools.

National Trends in Grade Inflation, American Colleges and Universities

Long Term Trends

The chart below shows long term trends in GPA using data from the 70 institutions listed above and additional data from CSU-East Bay, James Madison, Minnesota, MIT, Montana State, Northwestern, Stanford, Western Michigan, and Williams. Data are scant for the first few years on the chart (averages from the 1930s are based on data from eight institutions), and the curves for that portion of time have a good deal of uncertainty. Each data point is represented by a grey dot. The red, green and blue colored squares represent averages for all schools, private schools only and public schools only, respectively.

The chart indicates that private and public schools graded on average very similarly until the late 1950s or 1960s, when grades began to bifurcate. On average, private schools now grade about 0.3 higher than public schools for the schools examined here. This trend fully developed in the 1980s; the reasons for this trend are beyond the scope of this website post, but details can be found in our 2010 research paper.

In the 1930s, the average GPA at American colleges and universities was about 2.35, a number that corresponds with data compiled by W. Perry in 1943. By the 1950s, the average GPA was about 2.52. GPAs took off in the 1960s with grades at private schools rising faster than public schools, lulled in the 1970s, and began to rise again in the 1980s at a rate of about 0.10 to 0.15 increase in GPA per decade. The grade inflation that began in the 1980s has yet to end.

Not that that was what you were asking. I just think it's interesting.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

To Whiskey: your information about recruiting "sales pitches" resonates FAR more realistically with the real world of recruiting than the fellow above trying to argue against it. There are several reasons why one can say this:

1). none of us nor that fellow are in the living rooms when Kelly, Martin, Alford, Diaco et al are there talking to the family. But if we step back and picture that scene we just might come to some common sense ideas about what it's like. And it's not going to be some paper-thin caricature of some 17-year-old standing around thinking shallowly about girls, weather, and what classes [if any] he wants to take. These will be serious discussions with depth to them.

2). The young man's FAMILY will be in that room. Older heads, VERY concerned with the bigger picture, will be listening and asking questions. Kelly's "RKGs" come from "Right Kinds of Parents". The broader and deeper issues will be explored.

3). Kelly says that he himself uses this deeper dimensional approach and it is not only the correct way but is successful with the students and their families.

Notre Dame's 'Way" is not only a successful in recruiting, but is "appropriate" for an institution which genuinely cares about the student part of student-athlete. It is blatantly obvious that plenty of young men and their families care about that.

OMM, who is the fellow above? Which one?

And one of the clear "tells" of Brian Kelly recruiting, is how strong the family relationship, (unit), is. He likes players with an intact, functional, dynamic family group, where certain character values are instilled. This isn't an exact science. How many of the elite five stars have had this advantage, versus how many just received coding advantages. Kelly hits the mark with G Bryant, C Robinson, J Smith, etc. In fact, if you look at it and consider that target a measure for recruiting success, ND recruiting is getting closer to hitting a bullseyes, (a 250 range score) every time.

 

[Irishnuke]

Not signing with UCLA tomorrow. All over twitter right now.

 

[Irishman77]

LSU could again have opening with four-star defensive back Priest Willis | NOLA.com

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

Very interesting. LSU believes he is all theirs. Wonder if Kiffy tries to make a run...