Opinions/Discussions on Guns

[Grahambo]

Right, because restricting law abiding citizens will solve anything.

Were these animals who committed their crimes law abiding citizens? Not being sarcastic. Honest question. Did they have a criminal background?

 

[phgreek]

I've never understood why this board doesn't have it's own politics board so we didn't have to make threads in reaction to other threads getting out of hand.

Now, for the topic at hand, I've always felt that assualt rifles have only one purpose. Killing people. Sure people do range stuff with them, but I they are designed to kill people. Not as target guns, not for hunting. They are for efficiently killing people. .

...same could be said for a handgun...I never owned a handgun until recently for that very reason.

I have always thought limits to the types of weapons and carrying capacities should be controlled as a common sense measure.

However, honestly, Any crime committed with a weapon should mean hard time...like min of 30 years...not sure making it worse for assault weapons matters to me.

 

[DomerInHappyValley]

Were these animals who committed their crimes law abiding citizens? Not being sarcastic. Honest question. Did they have a criminal background?

You can be law abiding until you go off the deep end.

 

[Bluto]

So, here's a question. How many gun owners on this board have had a gun pointed at them and or had to use a gun in self defense outside of military or police service?

 

[phgreek]

Anybody know some of the laws that restrict gun control in foreign countries?

If you purchase a weapon for hunting or target practice, why not have an armory setup where you basically sign out your weapon to use it for that purpose and return it when complete? Or something like it at a local police station?

Maybe it sounds stupid. I don't know. Just spit balling ideas.

...yea I'd never support that...and I would die if anyone ever tried to take my weapons fom my home (as would a few of them).

As I've said I see some common sense ideas about types and capacities of weapons that are long overdue...forgive me for saying so, but its "ideas" like this that make the NRA intractable, and somewhat justifiably so.

 

[Bluto]

Here's another question, maybe some of the statistics fanatics can provide some numbers on this. What is the probability of the typical user of this board being a victim of a crime that would warrant the use of deadly force to defend themselves against? I'm thinking armed robbery, assualt with a deadly weapon, kidnapping and the like.

 

[DomerInHappyValley]

Here's another question, maybe some of the statistics fanatics can provide some numbers on this. What is the probability of the typical user of this board being a victim of a crime that would warrant the use of deadly force to defend themselves against? I'm thinking armed robbery, assualt with a deadly weapon, kidnapping and the like.

B&E is also an offense that will warrant it.
But yes I have been a victim of armed robbery.
I've also had a hunting rifle pointed at me in the woods over a deer that I shot that he wanted. I've had someone break into my car and steal my possessions.

But since you want stats here's one.
The average police response time is 6 minutes.
How about a supreme court ruling that says the police are there to protect and serve the community not the individual.

 

[scUM Hater]

Did anyone see that church Westboro Baptist church plans on having a picket?

Westboro Baptist Church Says It Will Picket Vigil For Connecticut School Shooting Victims

If anything needs to be band/controlled, it's these idiots.

 

[Grahambo]

...yea I'd never support that...and I would die if anyone ever tried to take my weapons fom my home (as would a few of them).

As I've said I see some common sense ideas about types and capacities of weapons that are long overdue...forgive me for saying so, but its "ideas" like this that make the NRA intractable, and somewhat justifiably so.

I respect your side. I'm for gun control, just no clue on how to do it. I see pros and cons for both sides. I wish I had a better, more intelligent answer. It just sucks.

 

[DomerInHappyValley]

Did anyone see that church Westboro Baptist church plans on having a picket?

Westboro Baptist Church Says It Will Picket Vigil For Connecticut School Shooting Victims

If anything needs to be band/controlled, it's these idiots.

Nope they have the right to do it.
Just like I have the right to try organizing a group of people to help me ring the town so they can't get in.

 

[mgriff]

There's a petition on the .gov site to get them listed as a hate group. **** me I hate those *******s.

 

[scUM Hater]

Nope they have the right to do it.
Just like I have the right to try organizing a group of people to help me ring the town so they can't get in.

I didn't notice the italics you probably should've used. If you believe these people should be doing this, then wow.

 

[scUM Hater]

I didn't notice the italics you probably should've used. If you believe these people should be doing this, then wow.

Nevermind, I guess I read your post to fast and miss understood what you were saying. My bad

 

[scUM Hater]

I didn't notice the italics you probably should've used. If you believe these people should be doing this, then wow.

Nevermind, I guess I read your post too fast and miss understood what you were saying. My bad

 

[DomerInHappyValley]

I respect your side. I'm for gun control, just no clue on how to do it. I see pros and cons for both sides. I wish I had a better, more intelligent answer. It just sucks.

Enforce the laws already on the books.
Stick a rider on laws that state any felony committed with a gun becomes life and that any misdemeanor committed with a firearm becomes a felony.
Any felon caught with a gun gets life.

But you also need to give a young idiot who has changed his life around and redeemed himself a chance to get his rights back.
Something like 10 or 15 years with a clean rap sheet you can apply to the police to be sponsored.

If you've never read the laws I suggest you do they are very comprehensive.

Easier access to mental care. Every school shooting has been done by people with severe mental health issues. Let these poor kids know they are not alone.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

If I'm assigning blame beyond the shooter himself, I'd blame the parents before I'd blame the gun laws.

The mom had to have missed warning signs -- he was posting his plans in the internet at least 3 days prior -- and nonetheless continued to leave all her guns readily accessible.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Friday, December 14, 2012

Thinking the Unthinkable

Michael holding a butterfly
In the wake of another horrific national tragedy, it’s easy to talk about guns. But it’s time to talk about mental illness.

Three days before 20 year-old Adam Lanza killed his mother, then opened fire on a classroom full of Connecticut kindergartners, my 13-year old son Michael (name changed) missed his bus because he was wearing the wrong color pants.

“I can wear these pants,” he said, his tone increasingly belligerent, the black-hole pupils of his eyes swallowing the blue irises.

“They are navy blue,” I told him. “Your school’s dress code says black or khaki pants only.”

“They told me I could wear these,” he insisted. “You’re a stupid bitch. I can wear whatever pants I want to. This is America. I have rights!”

“You can’t wear whatever pants you want to,” I said, my tone affable, reasonable. “And you definitely cannot call me a stupid bitch. You’re grounded from electronics for the rest of the day. Now get in the car, and I will take you to school.”

I live with a son who is mentally ill. I love my son. But he terrifies me.

A few weeks ago, Michael pulled a knife and threatened to kill me and then himself after I asked him to return his overdue library books. His 7 and 9 year old siblings knew the safety plan—they ran to the car and locked the doors before I even asked them to. I managed to get the knife from Michael, then methodically collected all the sharp objects in the house into a single Tupperware container that now travels with me. Through it all, he continued to scream insults at me and threaten to kill or hurt me.

That conflict ended with three burly police officers and a paramedic wrestling my son onto a gurney for an expensive ambulance ride to the local emergency room. The mental hospital didn’t have any beds that day, and Michael calmed down nicely in the ER, so they sent us home with a prescription for Zyprexa and a follow-up visit with a local pediatric psychiatrist.

We still don’t know what’s wrong with Michael. Autism spectrum, ADHD, Oppositional Defiant or Intermittent Explosive Disorder have all been tossed around at various meetings with probation officers and social workers and counselors and teachers and school administrators. He’s been on a slew of antipsychotic and mood altering pharmaceuticals, a Russian novel of behavioral plans. Nothing seems to work.

At the start of seventh grade, Michael was accepted to an accelerated program for highly gifted math and science students. His IQ is off the charts. When he’s in a good mood, he will gladly bend your ear on subjects ranging from Greek mythology to the differences between Einsteinian and Newtonian physics to Doctor Who. He’s in a good mood most of the time. But when he’s not, watch out. And it’s impossible to predict what will set him off.

Several weeks into his new junior high school, Michael began exhibiting increasingly odd and threatening behaviors at school. We decided to transfer him to the district’s most restrictive behavioral program, a contained school environment where children who can’t function in normal classrooms can access their right to free public babysitting from 7:30-1:50 Monday through Friday until they turn 18.

The morning of the pants incident, Michael continued to argue with me on the drive. He would occasionally apologize and seem remorseful. Right before we turned into his school parking lot, he said, “Look, Mom, I’m really sorry. Can I have video games back today?”

“No way,” I told him. “You cannot act the way you acted this morning and think you can get your electronic privileges back that quickly.”

His face turned cold, and his eyes were full of calculated rage. “Then I’m going to kill myself,” he said. “I’m going to jump out of this car right now and kill myself.”

That was it. After the knife incident, I told him that if he ever said those words again, I would take him straight to the mental hospital, no ifs, ands, or buts. I did not respond, except to pull the car into the opposite lane, turning left instead of right.

“Where are you taking me?” he said, suddenly worried. “Where are we going?”

“You know where we are going,” I replied.

“No! You can’t do that to me! You’re sending me to hell! You’re sending me straight to hell!”

I pulled up in front of the hospital, frantically waiving for one of the clinicians who happened to be standing outside. “Call the police,” I said. “Hurry.”

Michael was in a full-blown fit by then, screaming and hitting. I hugged him close so he couldn’t escape from the car. He bit me several times and repeatedly jabbed his elbows into my rib cage. I’m still stronger than he is, but I won’t be for much longer.

The police came quickly and carried my son screaming and kicking into the bowels of the hospital. I started to shake, and tears filled my eyes as I filled out the paperwork—“Were there any difficulties with....at what age did your child....were there any problems with...has your child ever experienced...does your child have....”

At least we have health insurance now. I recently accepted a position with a local college, giving up my freelance career because when you have a kid like this, you need benefits. You’ll do anything for benefits. No individual insurance plan will cover this kind of thing.

For days, my son insisted that I was lying—that I made the whole thing up so that I could get rid of him. The first day, when I called to check up on him, he said, “I hate you. And I’m going to get my revenge as soon as I get out of here.”

By day three, he was my calm, sweet boy again, all apologies and promises to get better. I’ve heard those promises for years. I don’t believe them anymore.

On the intake form, under the question, “What are your expectations for treatment?” I wrote, “I need help.”

And I do. This problem is too big for me to handle on my own. Sometimes there are no good options. So you just pray for grace and trust that in hindsight, it will all make sense.

I am sharing this story because I am Adam Lanza’s mother. I am Dylan Klebold’s and Eric Harris’s mother. I am James Holmes’s mother. I am Jared Loughner’s mother. I am Seung-Hui Cho’s mother. And these boys—and their mothers—need help. In the wake of another horrific national tragedy, it’s easy to talk about guns. But it’s time to talk about mental illness.

According to Mother Jones, since 1982, 61 mass murders involving firearms have occurred throughout the country. (A Guide to Mass Shootings in America | Mother Jones). Of these, 43 of the killers were white males, and only one was a woman. Mother Jones focused on whether the killers obtained their guns legally (most did). But this highly visible sign of mental illness should lead us to consider how many people in the U.S. live in fear, like I do.

When I asked my son’s social worker about my options, he said that the only thing I could do was to get Michael charged with a crime. “If he’s back in the system, they’ll create a paper trail,” he said. “That’s the only way you’re ever going to get anything done. No one will pay attention to you unless you’ve got charges.”

I don’t believe my son belongs in jail. The chaotic environment exacerbates Michael’s sensitivity to sensory stimuli and doesn’t deal with the underlying pathology. But it seems like the United States is using prison as the solution of choice for mentally ill people. According to Human Rights Watch, the number of mentally ill inmates in U.S. prisons quadrupled from 2000 to 2006, and it continues to rise—in fact, the rate of inmate mental illness is five times greater (56 percent) than in the non-incarcerated population. (U.S.: Number of Mentally Ill in Prisons Quadrupled | Human Rights Watch)

With state-run treatment centers and hospitals shuttered, prison is now the last resort for the mentally ill—Rikers Island, the LA County Jail, and Cook County Jail in Illinois housed the nation’s largest treatment centers in 2011 (Nation's Jails Struggle With Mentally Ill Prisoners : NPR)

No one wants to send a 13-year old genius who loves Harry Potter and his snuggle animal collection to jail. But our society, with its stigma on mental illness and its broken healthcare system, does not provide us with other options. Then another tortured soul shoots up a fast food restaurant. A mall. A kindergarten classroom. And we wring our hands and say, “Something must be done.”

I agree that something must be done. It’s time for a meaningful, nation-wide conversation about mental health. That’s the only way our nation can ever truly heal.

God help me. God help Michael. God help us all.
Anarchist Soccer Mom at 10:07 PM

I thought that you might enjoy this enlightened perspective.

With Friday, there seems to be two incontrovertable facts: Adam had a history of mental illness, (not oh, ah evil); and his mom had a house full of accessable weapons, including a Bushmaster .223 which is the same design and round as the weapon of death I used, (M16 A1A1) and rounds from that weapon would tear out huge chunks of humans in their paths. I have seen it.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

I thought that you might enjoy this enlightened perspective.

With Friday, there seems to be two incontrovertable facts: Adam had a history of mental illness, (not oh, ah evil); and his mom had a house full of accessable weapons, including a Bushmaster .223 which is the same design and round as the weapon of death I used, (M16 A1A1) and rounds from that weapon would tear out huge chunks of humans in their paths. I have seen it.

What was his illness? I thought he just had Asberger's.

 

[scUM Hater]

That is one huge problem in the USA, shuttering doors to psychological hospitals. People need help. We are to worried helping others through-out the world. To much bi-partisan bull**** nowadays. Things need, no, have to change.

 

[scUM Hater]

What was his illness? I thought he just had Asberger's.

I am by no way a medical expert. Asburgers is a form of Autism. I have been told by a father of a Autistic boy that in some forms of Autism the disease doesn't allow the individual to realize when enough is enough. I was told they will keep going until they aren't able or the other person is dead or not moving.

 

[Downinthebend]

Did anyone see that church Westboro Baptist church plans on having a picket?

Westboro Baptist Church Says It Will Picket Vigil For Connecticut School Shooting Victims

If anything needs to be band/controlled, it's these idiots.

Anonymous - Message To The Westboro Baptist Church on Vimeo

 

[irishff1014]

Did anyone see that church Westboro Baptist church plans on having a picket?

Westboro Baptist Church Says It Will Picket Vigil For Connecticut School Shooting Victims

If anything needs to be band/controlled, it's these idiots.

We the people need to do everything we can to try and stop these COWARDS!!!

 

[scUM Hater]

I am also waiting for one of these media outlets trying to get pictures from the police of what happened inside the school through the public information act. I pray to God that these are never published. The police should burn them and never make them public. I'm sure the New York Post would love to have them.

 

[DSully1995]

I am by no way a medical expert. Asburgers is a form of Autism. I have been told by a father of a Autistic boy that in some forms of Autism the disease doesn't allow the individual to realize when enough is enough. I was told they will keep going until they aren't able or the other person is dead or not moving.

Well of the peple with aspergers ive heard of, none dangerous so might eb apples and oranges, they just have an inability to conform with social means, (drinking milk creamers and the like), are socially awkward and sometimes, suuuuuper talented or gripped by a certain topic?

 

[jmurphy75]

Enforce the laws already on the books.
Stick a rider on laws that state any felony committed with a gun becomes life and that any misdemeanor committed with a firearm becomes a felony.
Any felon caught with a gun gets life.

But you also need to give a young idiot who has changed his life around and redeemed himself a chance to get his rights back.
Something like 10 or 15 years with a clean rap sheet you can apply to the police to be sponsored.

If you've never read the laws I suggest you do they are very comprehensive.

Easier access to mental care. Every school shooting has been done by people with severe mental health issues. Let these poor kids know they are not alone.

All of this and protect our schools, since there have been so many school shootings we can assume that they are and will remain a target for phsycos. Put security protocols in place and armed "resource officers" at every school.

 

[woolybug25]

All of this and protect our schools, since there have been so many school shootings we can assume that they are and will remain a target for phsycos. Put security protocols in place and armed "resource officers" at every school.

Meanwhile, every state in the country is cutting educational funding.

 

[4irishnation]

At what point are we going to stop making excuses for everybody?

 

[irishff1014]

Meanwhile, every state in the country is cutting educational funding.

Yes Sir. I know we don't wamt schools to feel like jail but I am onboard with detecors at the entry ways to schools. Yes i understand this cost money but who cares when it comes to the Safety of small children and young adults. We have to do more so that we can stop these type of crimes.

Black eye peas say it best. And i am not rying to go all churchy on everyone because i am no saint but we need to be a more loving nation, care about others and not your self.

Father, Father, Father help us
Send some guidance from above
'Cause people got me, got me questionin'
Where is the love (Love)

 

[ACamp1900]

California schools typically have open campuses... Meaning they aren't enclosed buildings that people typically think of when they picture schools... Good luck securing them

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

I get that people want to protect kids but someone pointed it out, in this thread or the original one, that people pick the places where people are easy targets. Start setting up officers at schools and these people will just start going to parks, etc