Jan 7 | BCS National Championship | Alabama

NDBoiler

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What can the pros offer him that college can't? Its not like he's flying all over the country looking for talent. He's a tireless recruiter but id imagine its much easier to do than in some other sec schools.. Money isn't an issue. Believe he makes over 5 mill a year in base salary... The work schedule is much more flexible in college than the pros... And he's top gun, whatever he wants he'll get.... I see no advantage to going pro

It will be a challenge for him. He was not very successful previously in the NFL, so someone who is as competitive and driven (read: egotistical) as he is wants to prove that he can be successful on the NFL level too. He's in his early 60's, so he probably doesn't have a whole lot of coaching years left before he may want to consider retirement. Therefore if he doesn't make that jump soon, he will be out of meaningful time.
 

chicago51

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Besides Saban wanting to go to the pros a franchise has to want Saban which is far from guaranteed. The thing about Saban is that if he went the pros he would want to have a Bellichek type role where he had total control (draft picks, free agents, etc). I remember that here in Chicago the Bears actually tried to hire him prior to the 2004 seaon but because he wanted complete control on player personel they passed on him and hired Lovie Smith. GMs around the league are not about to give up control of their teams to a coach. Only way Saban would get considered is if an owner is willing to basically give Saban complete control of the franchise.
 

chicago51

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I'm not sure any pro teams would want Saban. Not because he is a bad coach but he would want Bill Bellichek type power where he had complete control of player personel. In Chicago I remember the Bears wanted to hire Saban prior to the 2004 season but he wanted control on player personel so they passed and hired Lovie Smith instead. So no GM is going want to hire Saban, only way he gets considered is if you have an owner willing give Saban control on all player personel dissions (draft picks, free agents, etc).
 
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TheChosen1

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Grantland X‏@GrantlandX

Just got a text "ESPN is playing 24 hours of ND coverage on New Year's" ...is this true???


Anyone else?
 

gkIrish

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People should be

Why? I can't remember more than a couple of punts or kickoffs that our team didn't bottle up immediately. Granted there's very little chance we have a good return either but a wash in this area is fine with me.

Our punting has been pretty good and Brindza has been clutch generally. I wouldn't say I'm "worried."
 

Whiskeyjack

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Why? I can't remember more than a couple of punts or kickoffs that our team didn't bottle up immediately. Granted there's very little chance we have a good return either but a wash in this area is fine with me.

Our punting has been pretty good and Brindza has been clutch generally. I wouldn't say I'm "worried."

Our lack of anything resembling a return game is the problem. It constantly puts us at a field position disadvantage, which really adds up over the course of a game. We've been able to overcome it thus far, but we're not going to be able to hang many points on 'Bama if we're constantly starting around our own 20.
 

gkIrish

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Our lack of anything resembling a return game is the problem. It constantly puts us at a field position disadvantage, which really adds up over the course of a game. We've been able to overcome it thus far, but we're not going to be able to hang many points on 'Bama if we're constantly starting around our own 20.

Our lack of a return game is irrelevant if we don't let them return anything either. From what I remember, we haven't given up more than a couple decent returns all year and 0 past midfield.

IMO, this game comes down to Red Zone efficiency. Both teams are going to have goal-to-go situations. It will come down to who punches it in.
 

chicago51

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Notre Dame is very good in punt and kick coverage. But... they are only 72nd punting average. Granted the net yardage is better because of the great coverage. That said Notre Dame has been a loser in field position most of these games, they just have overcome it.
 

gkIrish

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Alabama had three special teams disasters in the Georgia game.

The only game I can remember where field position truly affected whether we won or lost the game was @Michigan State...where we dominated
 

Whiskeyjack

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Our lack of a return game is irrelevant if we don't let them return anything either. From what I remember, we haven't given up more than a couple decent returns all year and 0 past midfield.

You aren't recalling our ST performance very accurately.

Take a look at Brian Fremeau's ST rankings. 'Bama is 30th, while ND is 89th overall.

And our coverage units aren't great either: we're 54th in PE and 39th in KE.
 

gkIrish

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You aren't recalling our ST performance very accurately.

Take a look at Brian Fremeau's ST rankings. 'Bama is 30th, while ND is 89th overall.

And our coverage units aren't great either: we're 54th in PE and 39th in KE.

My point has been that we aren't going to give anything up to Alabama in the return game. It won't matter what we do to them.

According to that chart Alabama is 75th in PRE and 68th in KRE. That while playing multiple FCS schools. Good teams typically GASH FCS schools in the return game.

So compare:

ND: 54th PE
Alabama 75th in PRE

ND: 39th in KE
Alabama: 68th in KRE


That's why I'm not worried. It will be a wash.
 
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chicago51

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What about FG kicking? Shelly hadn't missed a FG all year until the one against UGA got blocked. Kyle B has made some tough kicks but has also missed some very makeable ones (including a PAT against PIT).

I still like ND to win. Its just when I go through all areas of the game looking for advantages and disadvantages. I say STs are advantage Bama. Special Teams is certainly one area that can hurt us.
 
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Whiskeyjack

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ND: 54th PE
Alabama 75th in PRE

ND: 39th in KE
Alabama: 68th in KRE

It's not just about limiting explosive ST plays. Let's look at the flipside of that.

ND PRE: 97th
'Bama PE: 22nd

ND KRE: 102nd
'Bama KE: 29th

Based on those figures, it's very unlikely that we're going to see anything but fair catches deep in our own territory. And while our coverage units are unlikely to give up a big return, 'Bama will still probably get something. That differential in starting field position adds up over the course of the game; 'Bama will likely have to drive 5-10 yards less on average than ND, which usually ends up on the score board at some point.

And consider the FGE: 67th for ND v. 24th for 'Bama. So even if our amazing red-zone defense keeps 'Bama out of the end zone, they've still got the advantage in a field goal contest.

I agree with Fremeau that our terrible STs have been the difference this year between passing the "eye ball" test and appearing to pull out lucky wins. It's easy to look back at 12-0 and dismiss the importance of ST, but it'll catch up with us soon if we don't start improving.
 

gkIrish

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It's not just about limiting explosive ST plays. Let's look at the flipside of that.

ND PRE: 97th
'Bama PE: 22nd

ND KRE: 102nd
'Bama KE: 29th

Based on those figures, it's very unlikely that we're going to see anything but fair catches deep in our own territory. And while our coverage units are unlikely to give up a big return, 'Bama will still probably get something. That differential in starting field position adds up over the course of the game; 'Bama will likely have to drive 5-10 yards less on average than ND, which usually ends up on the score board at some point.

And consider the FGE: 67th for ND v. 24th for 'Bama. So even if our amazing red-zone defense keeps 'Bama out of the end zone, they've still got the advantage in a field goal contest.

I agree with Fremeau that our terrible STs have been the difference this year between passing the "eye ball" test and appearing to pull out lucky wins. It's easy to look back at 12-0 and dismiss the importance of ST, but it'll catch up with us soon if we don't start improving.

Oklahoma is 5th in KRE. They started kickoff drives at the 12, 21, 25, 25, 25, 18, and 48 (when the game was essentially over). Considering Alabama has a worse return game, would a game like that "worry" you? Do you think that would equate to a 5-10 yard average difference?

As far as punts go, field position is determined primarily based on how the offense does. So if we lose the punting field position game, it probably has more to do with our offense than Ben Turk.

Alabama does have an advantage in their kicking game on paper but how many game-winners has their guy kicked this year? Brindza has multiple game winners or overtime field goals. That experience will be invaluable. If we are holding Alabama to field goal tries I like our chances regardless of whether they make them or not.

I'm not dismissing the importance of special teams. I'm simply not "worried" that special teams are going to win or lose this game. Our team is built around our defense and securing the football. We don't fumble punts or kickoffs because we don't try anything crazy in the return game.

I'm not worried about a 5-10 yard average (which is probably overstated) because I really doubt that Coach Kelly is. This game will be won or lost in the trenches and on the goal line.
 

chicago51

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Oklahoma is 5th in KRE. They started kickoff drives at the 12, 21, 25, 25, 25, 18, and 48 (when the game was essentially over). Considering Alabama has a worse return game, would a game like that "worry" you? Do you think that would equate to a 5-10 yard average difference?

As far as punts go, field position is determined primarily based on how the offense does. So if we lose the punting field position game, it probably has more to do with our offense than Ben Turk.

Alabama does have an advantage in their kicking game on paper but how many game-winners has their guy kicked this year? Brindza has multiple game winners or overtime field goals. That experience will be invaluable. If we are holding Alabama to field goal tries I like our chances regardless of whether they make them or not.

I'm not dismissing the importance of special teams. I'm simply not "worried" that special teams are going to win or lose this game. Our team is built around our defense and securing the football. We don't fumble punts or kickoffs because we don't try anything crazy in the return game. I'm not worried about a 5-10 yard average (which is probably overstated) because I really doubt that Coach Kelly is. This game will be won or lost in the trenches and on the goal line.

Yea for the most part for better or worse ND plays defense safe on 4th down.
 

Irish#1

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I'm not sure any pro teams would want Saban. Not because he is a bad coach but he would want Bill Bellichek type power where he had complete control of player personel. In Chicago I remember the Bears wanted to hire Saban prior to the 2004 season but he wanted control on player personel so they passed and hired Lovie Smith instead. So no GM is going want to hire Saban, only way he gets considered is if you have an owner willing give Saban control on all player personel dissions (draft picks, free agents, etc).

I think he'd be a perfect coach for Jerry Jones!
 

chicago51

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I think he'd be a perfect coach for Jerry Jones!

I would love to see Saban go to the Cowboys! I can see Jerry Jones throwing a ton of money at him and promise him control on player personel decissions; Only for Jerry to constantly interfer with what Saban wants to get done and who he wants to bring in. Saban in the end will just end up really pissed off.

Note: Jerry Jones thinks he is a football expert.
 

ACamp1900

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Heard on the radio by the same guy who nailed Tennessee's coaching search that Saban is growing very tired of the nutzo fan base down there and is ready for something new... He stated his best guess is Saban is named the new coach of the Cleveland Browns shortly after the title game
 
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chicago51

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Heard on the radio by the same guy who nailed Tennessee's coaching search the Saban is growing very tired of the nutzo fan base down there and is ready for something new... He stated his best guess is Saban is named the new coach of the Cleveland Browns shortly after the title game

Browns are likely going to clean house with GM as well so this situation actually could work as Saban could get the personel control he wants here.
 

Emcee77

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Heard on the radio by the same guy who nailed Tennessee's coaching search that Saban is growing very tired of the nutzo fan base down there and is ready for something new... He stated his best guess is Saban is named the new coach of the Cleveland Browns shortly after the title game

Well that doesn't help us ... how can we speed the process along ...
 

chicago51

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Well that doesn't help us ... how can we speed the process along ...

No way he leaves before the game which is fine with me as the Saban factor is a bit overrated. Although I am hoping this becomes a distraction for the players. I think more rumors will heat up at the last week of the year and 1st week of 2013 before the title game once the NFL season ends and more coaches get canned; so I think the potential for distraction heading into the title game is there.
 

ahommell

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No way he leaves before the game which is fine with me as the Saban factor is a bit overrated. Although I am hoping this becomes a distraction for the players. I think more rumors will heat up at the last week of the year and 1st week of 2013 before the title game once the NFL season ends and more coaches get canned; so I think the potential for distraction heading into the title game is there.

Dead on. It is only a distraction as long Saban says nothing and more people begin to see it as a possibility.

So tell your friends that it is a sure thing. Feed the media trolls!
 

BurningRiver

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As a Browns fan, I want nothing to do with Saban. He's a hell of a college coach, but I don't think he's NFL material. Too strict. And, although I would've punched myself in the face for saying this a month ago, I'm beginning to like Pat Shurmur a little more each week.
 

KPENN

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Nothing to do with the game itself. Didn't know where else to put it.

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