WaPo Blogger's Article About Sex Assault Allegations Against ND Football Players

[Emcee77]

Saw this today:

[redacted]

The writer mentions two sexual assaults committed by ND players. The first is the Seeberg affair from 2010, which has been extensively discussed in the media. At the time I read a lot about that one, and I'm a little troubled by it because I think ND could have handled the incident better, not just in terms of the initial investigation but also in terms of its insensitive treatment of the Seebergs ... BUT I don't really think, all things considered, that ND covered up a legitimate sexual assault. Based on what I've seen, it's no more likely that a real assault occurred than it is that a girl with mental health issues freaked out and exaggerated the incident. I would be interested to know if people on the board know more about it than what's been reported though. I know there are a lot of current students who may be able to shed additional light on it.

This is the first I've heard of the second incident though. Does anyone know anything about this one? Which players were involved? Is it as shady as this writer makes it sound, or is there another side to the story?

 

[AdmiralBackhand]

Don't click the link.

 

[johnnykillz]

Same sh!t, different poster...

 

[koonja]

Don't click the link.

+1. Don't give him/her hits. You know it's going to be stupid.

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

I think a thread should be made about not posting the article... All day people are going to start a thread because there is not one and if you read the other thread the post that talks about it is deleted....

 

[clashmore_jon]

it's pretty easy to villanize when you tell one side of the story.

 

[Emcee77]

Sorry if there has already been a thread on this. I did not see it.

 

[WakeUpEchoes]

Sorry if there has already been a thread on this. I did not see it.

There wasn't. I posted it in the NCG Gameday thread yesterday and some people asked if I would take it down so I did. It is a disgusting article, I agree.

 

[Rack Em]

Saw this today:


The writer mentions two sexual assaults committed by ND players. The first is the Seeberg affair from 2010, which has been extensively discussed in the media. At the time I read a lot about that one, and I'm a little troubled by it because I think ND could have handled the incident better, not just in terms of the initial investigation but also in terms of its insensitive treatment of the Seebergs ... BUT I don't really think, all things considered, that ND covered up a legitimate sexual assault. Based on what I've seen, it's no more likely that a real assault occurred than it is that a girl with mental health issues freaked out and exaggerated the incident. I would be interested to know if people on the board know more about it than what's been reported though. I know there are a lot of current students who may be able to shed additional light on it.

This is the first I've heard of the second incident though. Does anyone know anything about this one? Which players were involved? Is it as shady as this writer makes it sound, or is there another side to the story?

I was a senior for the Seeberg incident. It seemed like a girl who was mentally unstable PUT herself in a questionable situation. Then she didn't react in a way that would signal she wasn't OK with the way things proceeded with the football player. IIRC, he felt up her chest and she freaked out later.

It's a sad situation, but it was unfair to blame this football player for sexual assault. That just as easily could have been any other guy at ND. And had it been another guy, it wouldn't have caught national attention.

I don't want to get into a debate about this, but this seemed to be the perception around ND (among the guys).

 

[Emcee77]

I was a senior for the Seeberg incident. It seemed like a girl who was mentally unstable PUT herself in a questionable situation. Then she didn't react in a way that would signal she wasn't OK with the way things proceeded with the football player. IIRC, he felt up her chest and she freaked out later.

It's a sad situation, but it was unfair to blame this football player for sexual assault. That just as easily could have been any other guy at ND. And had it been another guy, it wouldn't have caught national attention.

I don't want to get into a debate about this, but this seemed to be the perception around ND (among the guys).

Yeah, this is consistent with the scuttlebutt I've heard. That's all I was looking for, what was the perception around campus. Thanks.

 

[phgreek]

Saw this today:


The writer mentions two sexual assaults committed by ND players. The first is the Seeberg affair from 2010, which has been extensively discussed in the media. At the time I read a lot about that one, and I'm a little troubled by it because I think ND could have handled the incident better, not just in terms of the initial investigation but also in terms of its insensitive treatment of the Seebergs ... BUT I don't really think, all things considered, that ND covered up a legitimate sexual assault. Based on what I've seen, it's no more likely that a real assault occurred than it is that a girl with mental health issues freaked out and exaggerated the incident. I would be interested to know if people on the board know more about it than what's been reported though. I know there are a lot of current students who may be able to shed additional light on it.

This is the first I've heard of the second incident though. Does anyone know anything about this one? Which players were involved? Is it as shady as this writer makes it sound, or is there another side to the story?

I read this, and other stuff she wrote previously. I will look at it as I do all things I do not have good knowledge of...its a side of it to be considered. But no one writing about a topic such as this comes at it as a classic journalist...they can't. They either sugar coat it or exagerate it depending upon their view. It is a flag, among multiple flags this woman has run up the pole. If her intent was to say hey, we have an issue that demands attention...she's done the job....but reliance upon her writing as "fact"...I wouldn't.

 

[Rack Em]

Yeah, this is consistent with the scuttlebutt I've heard. That's all I was looking for, what was the perception around campus. Thanks.

The other perception (by some ND girls and a lot of St. Mary's girls) was to hang this player by the nuts. IMO that is 1) utterly unfair because he didn't know she was in counseling and 2) inconsistent with our judicial system.

Right, wrong, or indifferent, the DA had absolutely no case whatsoever.

 

[clashmore_jon]

I was a senior for the Seeberg incident. It seemed like a girl who was mentally unstable PUT herself in a questionable situation. Then she didn't react in a way that would signal she wasn't OK with the way things proceeded with the football player. IIRC, he felt up her chest and she freaked out later.

It's a sad situation, but it was unfair to blame this football player for sexual assault. That just as easily could have been any other guy at ND. And had it been another guy, it wouldn't have caught national attention.

I don't want to get into a debate about this, but this seemed to be the perception around ND (among the guys).

When i first heard about this, i figured tehre was a good chance it was something like that. ND girls are really weird sometimes. I remember during my freshman orientation we had a sex assault class, and the video was about this girl who came over to a guys dorm and was fooling around with him and then apparently he raped her like 6 times, all night long. The girl said she never tried to leave or scream, and even when the dude's roommate came in, she didnt say anything. Sounded really ****ing fishy to me and everyone else, even most of the girls.

Leave it to an ND girl to call copping a feel rape.

 

[Rack Em]

When i first heard about this, i figured tehre was a good chance it was something like that. ND girls are really weird sometimes. I remember during my freshman orientation we had a sex assault class, and the video was about this girl who came over to a guys dorm and was fooling around with him and then apparently he raped her like 6 times, all night long. The girl said she never tried to leave or scream, and even when the dude's roommate came in, she didnt say anything. Sounded really ****ing fishy to me and everyone else, even most of the girls.

Leave it to an ND girl to call copping a feel rape.

She went to St Mary's though.

 

[Emcee77]

I should not have started this thread.

But I guess I'm still curious if anyone else has heard of the second incident the writer mentions, which apparently took place a few months after the Seeberg incident. Is that real?

 

[Classic Irish]

Not sure if it's true (and perhaps someone else can confirm) but I recall reading somewhere at the time this came out that she had previously attempted suicide (prior to her time at St. Mary's). Regardless, it seems to be a tragic story of a young woman who had a long history of psychological problems.

 

[phork]

Does anyone know anything about this case at all? I suspect if you aren't the police or even the people associated with it, you can't possibly know whats up. And talking about things like this without the facts just adds fuel to the fire.

I would love to know what happened and that our players are 100% free and clear but none of us know what happened and never will.

 

[clashmore_jon]

She went to St Mary's though.

As my wise old RA once said "for every hot, sex-crazed SMC chick, there are four sheltered, uberreligious nutjobs

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Does anyone know anything about this case at all? I suspect if you aren't the police or even the people associated with it, you can't possibly know whats up. And talking about things like this without the facts just adds fuel to the fire.

I would love to know what happened and that our players are 100% free and clear but none of us know what happened and never will.

^

If, as a journalist, you have evidence that ND covered up the Seeberg incident, then by all means, please write that article. We aren't PSU, and if such a thing happened to protect the football program, heads should roll.

But the Chicago Tribune already dedicated lots of resources to that investigation, and came up with nothing (which of course didn't stop them from smearing ND anyway).

As Emcee originally stated, ND seems to have handled both the investigation and the Seeberg family poorly, which is regrettable. But there's virtually no evidence of some institutionalized coverup here. So when someone brings it up, without any additional evidence, especially in relation to the football program, that's a dead giveaway that you're reading a hack "journalist" with an axe to grind against ND. (e.g. Tim Layden's recent piece on ND)

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Sorry if there has already been a thread on this. I did not see it.

Can you take the link out? Please?

 

[Emcee77]

Can you take the link out? Please?

Yeah, I think this is doing more harm than good. Done.

I'm still curious if anyone knows anything about the second assault, a few months after Seeberg, which apparently involved "don't mess with ND football" type texts and which I haven't heard much about.

I don't know why I talked so much in the OP about the Seeberg incident; that wasn't the interesting part of the article to me. As Whiskey said, that ground has been covered.

 

[IrishLax]

It's funny because my girlfriend sat next to Brian Banks on the train up to NYC a mere two days ago and actually got to meet first hand someone whose life was completely altered by a fabricated rape allegation... and then there are all of the other cautionary tales like the Duke lacrosse case...

Yet this author is 100% sure that the accused is 100% guilty.. based on what? Seriously, based on WHAT F*CKING EVIDENCE is this kid guilty of ANYTHING??? At worst... at absolute worst... he touched a boob and then stopped.

Yeah... that TOTALLY warrants a diatribe with such vitriol. If I ever run into this woman on the street, I might spit in her face. You SHOULD NOT be able to write **** like that.

 

[ab2cmiller]

When i first heard about this, i figured tehre was a good chance it was something like that. ND girls are really weird sometimes. I remember during my freshman orientation we had a sex assault class, and the video was about this girl who came over to a guys dorm and was fooling around with him and then apparently he raped her like 6 times, all night long. The girl said she never tried to leave or scream, and even when the dude's roommate came in, she didnt say anything. Sounded really ****ing fishy to me and everyone else, even most of the girls.

Leave it to an ND girl to call copping a feel rape.

As my wise old RA once said "for every hot, sex-crazed SMC chick, there are four sheltered, uberreligious nutjobs

I have no clue what really happened. But considering Miss Seeberg is dead, I find your comments to be extremely callous and insensitive.

 

[clashmore_jon]

I have no clue what really happened. But considering Miss Seeberg is dead, I find your comments to be extremely callous and insensitive.

shallow and pedantic?

edit: in my mind the fact that she offed herself strongly corroborates the idea that she was nutty

 

[MNIrishman]

I don't understand how the author can make ND sound like the rape-rape-rapiest place in the country. I mean, that article implies you might be raped twice just on the jaunt home from class. She trivializes the issues at hand by blowing them out of proportion and equating unwanted touching with full-on rape. I'm not going to go back and reread the article, but IIRC, none of the anecdotes she references ended in evidence-backed, jury-of-your-peers convictions. However, several instances have occurred at the school where male students were involved in an investigation, had to leave school (for expulsion or simply unable to function as a student in the middle of an investigation), and were later found either innocent or not guilty in the case when punishment as it relates to their careers as students or athletes had already been rendered for an uncommitted crime. Are we to believe that all of NDSP, South Bend PD, and the Indiana State Police are complicit in a giant conspiracy to protect ND football? I feel like Notre Dame, more than any other team, is supported by its fans because of its commitment to excellence in all capacities, including the ethical. In no way do I support protecting the guilty in the name of our football program, because to do so would be to ruin what that program represents. However, have the media no trust in the process of law? Why vilify the school for protecting the names of the cannot-be-found-guilty?

 

[IrishLax]

I don't understand how the author can make ND sound like the rape-rape-rapiest place in the country. I mean, that article implies you might be raped twice just on the jaunt home from class. She trivializes the issues at hand by blowing them out of proportion and equating unwanted touching with full-on rape. I'm not going to go back and reread the article, but IIRC, none of the anecdotes she references ended in evidence-backed, jury-of-your-peers convictions. However, several instances have occurred at the school where male students were involved in an investigation, had to leave school (for expulsion or simply unable to function as a student in the middle of an investigation), and were later found either innocent or not guilty in the case when punishment as it relates to their careers as students or athletes had already been rendered for an uncommitted crime. Are we to believe that all of NDSP, South Bend PD, and the Indiana State Police are complicit in a giant conspiracy to protect ND football? I feel like Notre Dame, more than any other team, is supported by its fans because of its commitment to excellence in all capacities, including the ethical. In no way do I support protecting the guilty in the name of our football program, because to do so would be to ruin what that program represents. However, have the media no trust in the process of law? Why vilify the school for protecting the names of the cannot-be-found-guilty?

Yeah... well put. Very well put.

 

[aubeirish]

This is garbage. Pissing on the memory of dead people just to get publicity or in spite of Notre Dame football. You have to go very low for that.

 

[IrishinTN]

I don't see why some of you are piling on the Seeberg girl. No charges were filed and the girl has passed away. She had other issues going on in her life that we are not fully aware of the circumstance. She, nor her family, had anything to do with the author of this hatchet job. Let's allow the dead to rest in peace.

 

[phork]

This thread should just be locked and dumped. Random unsubstantiated discussion about a case no one knows anything about it, FOR SURE. All we know is whats been bandied about.

 

[ab2cmiller]

I feel like I'm talking to one of my teenage kids.

Not everything that you think, has to be spoken (or in this case be typed). Grow up