Manti Te'o for Heisman

[Bogtrotter07]

It really isn't important in the great scheme of things.

But it is simple. (sometimes simple is good)

Manti is the right person, at the right time. It is the best thing to do.

 

[BurningRiver]

Manti Te'o is coming at the perfect time for the NCAA. Here he is, an excellent student, humble person, perfect role model, and great football player (if not the best football player). A year ago at this time, all we were talking about were disgusting Penn State, Ohio State's sanctions, and possible Oregon violations. But here Te'o comes, ready to provide the PR the NCAA desperately needs, coming from a team that has "woken up the echoes" and is number one in both football and graduation rate.

Now it's on the Heisman voters. Do they vote for Te'o, the arguably more difficult and controversial choice? Voting for Te'o would almost restore the Heisman to its original purpose ("outstanding player...with integrity"), just two years removed from giving it to a player who violated NCAA rules to jump one year from JuCo to the National Championship, and 7 years removed from giving it to a player who has been proved to have been receiving benefits. The Heisman Trust has the ability, with this trophy, to actually make a difference, to steer this trophy in the right direction.

But that would mean going against the tide, against ESPN and the other major media. Some voters might be worried that Te'o sets the bar too high, that it makes their job harder, that from now on they'll be expected to actually broaden their scopes and vote for non-quarterbacks for a change. Te'o winning the Heisman could make their job harder for that reason, but it would also make the Trophy mean something more.

 

[dublinirish]

Nobody seems to be talking either about Manziel's preseason arrest

 

[Bogtrotter07]

It isn't whether they talk about it, it is whether they know about it.

That shouldn't preclude JM from the Heisman; it just should distinguish him from other candidates.

 

[Blaise]

I can't hate if JM wins the award... He blew away Cam and Tebow's numbers in years they wo the Heisman.. I would love to see Manti win it, but I don't feel anyone whovotes for JM is a ND hater or SEC slurper.. .Both kids deserve it

 

[Rocket89]

On Manti Te'o and the Heisman Trophy - One Foot Down

 

[ARALOU]

Cam and Tim also won the NC.

 

[TheChosen1]

Dan Patrick Show‏@dpshow

Today's show... @JManziel2 , @MTeo_5 , @Rodney_Harrison and @CFD22 . Visit The Dan Patrick Show | Official Home for more

 

[Grahambo]

Johnny 'Football' was just on Mike and Mike. I assume Te'o will be on also?

 

[Irish#1]

I can't hate if JM wins the award... He blew away Cam and Tebow's numbers in years they wo the Heisman.. I would love to see Manti win it, but I don't feel anyone whovotes for JM is a ND hater or SEC slurper.. .Both kids deserve it

Here's my problem with JM. He may have eclipsed previous numbers, but look at the last 10-12 years and how offenses have evolved. QB's are breaking numbers year after year, so what JM did really isn't anything new. I suspect his numbers will be eclipsed in the not too distant future.

 

[RDU Irish]

On Manti Te'o and the Heisman Trophy - One Foot Down

College Football Stats - College FB Team Opponent Plays per Game on TeamRankings.com

So that article says 103 tackles out of roughly 700 defensive plays (only 58 per game) where my link says we averaged 65.8/game on defense. Add 7 INT, 4 PBU, 1 FR and you get 115 defensive "stats" out of 790 plays - 14.6% roughly one in seven plays he is in on it.

College Football Stats - College FB Team Plays per Game on TeamRankings.com

Now 112 out of 124 teams listed averaged more than 65.8 offensive plays per game and I suspect most did not have a four overtime periods to bump this number either.

If we call 73 an average number of offensive plays we could extrapolate an 11% increase in stats to 114 tackles, 8 INTs not as much of an impact as I was looking for. But if he was in the top five for plays per game (like TAMU and Oregon are on offense) we would be looking at 84 plays per game or a 28% increase in production. This extrapolates to 131 tackles and 9 INT.

Now look at how many don't make it past the DL -

Nix - 45
Tuitt - 42
Shembo - 48
Kappy - 39
Williams - 21
Day - 20
Springman - 11
Schwenke - 5
Total - 231 (granted half of those are solo vs. assists so Teo may have been in on some of those) but pretty sick that over 1/4th of all plays are pretty much stopped by the D line, not as much for the middle linebacker to clean up.

Also Opponents averaged 13.8 incompletions per game (165 total for roughly 1 in 5 plays) and who knows how many plays had no defensive stat associated (run out of bounds).

Another interesting point, opponent rushing play percentage was 3rd in the nation at 44% (despite Navy on the schedule). More passing means fewer tackles up the middle versus a more run oriented attack. Obvious cause and effect here, T'eo and Nix caused teams to gameplan around them and avoid the middle of the field for good reason.

This would be why the leading tacklers in the country play for bad teams, they have the most opportunities and are often left to clean up everyone elses mess.

Summary - Maybe interesting only to me but fun to kick around.

 

[Grahambo]

Here's my problem with JM. He may have eclipsed previous numbers, but look at the last 10-12 years and how offenses have evolved. QB's are breaking numbers year after year, so what JM did really isn't anything new. I suspect his numbers will be eclipsed in the not too distant future.

He is the product of the Kevin Sumlin system.

 

[longhorndude]

Idea for Heisman Race

Idea for Heisman Race

Here are some lowlights for Johnny Football.

Johnny Football - YouTube
Johnny Football (Radio Edit Version) - Derec Stanislav - YouTube

8 interceptions
22 sacks
the entire lsu game
his missed extra point
his arrest mugshot
his scooby doo halloween outfit

Someone needs to make a video "lowlighting" these features of the freshman candidate and show why he doesn't deserve the award based on being the most "outstanding college football player whose performance best exhibits the pursuit of excellence with integrity." There has to be someone who has the time to do it. Upload to Youtube. Make it happen...

 

[no.1IrishFan]

Coming up in just a few min on Dan Patrick.

 

[Btown7]

Coming up in just a few min on Dan Patrick.

niiice! just checked didnt even realize i got NBC Sports. looking forward to seeing this interview

 

[Riddickulous]

This TAMU board is absolutely obsessed with Te'o, Manziel, and the Heisman in general.

Like every other thread is about him, analyzing his numbers, comparing his numbers to past linebackers who weren't Heisman candidates, etc.

Most posters are reasonable and their argument is basically "he's a product of media hype and Manziel is more deserving", which is true to some extent. But there are some that are actually questioning his character. Apparently he's "fake" and every good deed he does is calculated to earn media attention.

Check this utterly laughable thread where someone questions his character because he has a tattoo:

TexAgs.com - A&M Football

 

[Grahambo]

This TAMU board is absolutely obsessed with Te'o, Manziel, and the Heisman in general.

Like every other thread is about him, analyzing his numbers, comparing his numbers to past linebackers who weren't Heisman candidates, etc.

Most posters are reasonable and their argument is basically "he's a product of media hype and Manziel is more deserving", which is true to some extent. But there are some that are actually questioning his character. Apparently he's "fake" and every good deed he does is calculated to earn media attention.

Check this utterly laughable thread where someone questions his character because he has a tattoo:

TexAgs.com - A&M Football

And Manziel has a mugshot. /End character argument

I'm also sure most of them don't realize what Manti went through the weeks of the MSU/UM game.

EDIT: On a second look: as most bias fans, they only point to the numbers that enhance their player while making the other appear weaker. It's the same garbage we've heard this entire time.

Bottom line: JM in big games was nonexistent and they unsurprisingly fail to mention that. They bring up him sitting for most games yet also fail to mention those were games against the weakest opponents a D1 team can face this season. It's like playing NCAA on freshman level. They also mention the Top 50 in tackles argument again. Which, if you take a look at it, not many players on winning teams appear. As if tackles are the only stat to go by. Needless to say, they do not mention anything about opponent plays per game; meaning how many times is Manti actually out there on defense.

It's a waste of time and not worth getting into an argument over because they feel that a 10-2 Johnny 'Football' led Aggies team who put up big numbers against the weaker teams in D1 is 'historic'.

Enjoy the Capital One Bowl.

 

[woolybug25]

And Manziel has a mugshot. /End character argument.

I also dont get how the media almost gushes about Manziel's halloween Scooby adventure. The reality is that he was underage, at a bar, drinking, dancing with girls dressed like tramps. Why is this something that should be looked at in a positive light?

 

[WakeUpEchoes]

JF is ready to blow at any moment (in the words of Johnny Killz). This video proves he will self-destruct.

Nada Surf Popular - YouTube

 

[Bogtrotter07]

College Football Stats - College FB Team Opponent Plays per Game on TeamRankings.com

So that article says 103 tackles out of roughly 700 defensive plays (only 58 per game) where my link says we averaged 65.8/game on defense. Add 7 INT, 4 PBU, 1 FR and you get 115 defensive "stats" out of 790 plays - 14.6% roughly one in seven plays he is in on it.

College Football Stats - College FB Team Plays per Game on TeamRankings.com

Now 112 out of 124 teams listed averaged more than 65.8 offensive plays per game and I suspect most did not have a four overtime periods to bump this number either.

If we call 73 an average number of offensive plays we could extrapolate an 11% increase in stats to 114 tackles, 8 INTs not as much of an impact as I was looking for. But if he was in the top five for plays per game (like TAMU and Oregon are on offense) we would be looking at 84 plays per game or a 28% increase in production. This extrapolates to 131 tackles and 9 INT.

Now look at how many don't make it past the DL -

Nix - 45
Tuitt - 42
Shembo - 48
Kappy - 39
Williams - 21
Day - 20
Springman - 11
Schwenke - 5
Total - 231 (granted half of those are solo vs. assists so Teo may have been in on some of those) but pretty sick that over 1/4th of all plays are pretty much stopped by the D line, not as much for the middle linebacker to clean up.

Also Opponents averaged 13.8 incompletions per game (165 total for roughly 1 in 5 plays) and who knows how many plays had no defensive stat associated (run out of bounds).

Another interesting point, opponent rushing play percentage was 3rd in the nation at 44% (despite Navy on the schedule). More passing means fewer tackles up the middle versus a more run oriented attack. Obvious cause and effect here, T'eo and Nix caused teams to gameplan around them and avoid the middle of the field for good reason.

This would be why the leading tacklers in the country play for bad teams, they have the most opportunities and are often left to clean up everyone elses mess.

Summary - Maybe interesting only to me but fun to kick around.

Are you using our offensive production to determing defensive efficiency>Téigh Gaeilge! ? Because you may be hurting your own cause. We have used our offense to take plays away from other teams this year. I bet those plays go higher if you look at game by game the number of defensive plays minus special teams we have given up. I calculated that Teo's tackles and interception against SC totaled over 12 of plays they ran (51) against us.

 

[IrishCat]

I also dont get how the media almost gushes about Manziel's halloween Scooby adventure. The reality is that he was underage, at a bar, drinking, dancing with girls dressed like tramps. Why is this something that should be looked at in a positive light?

 

[ab2cmiller]

LOL at the Scooby Heisman ..... but it's missing a silhouette of a woman dressed like a "tramp" clinging to Scooby Heisman

 

[IrishCat]

LOL at the Scooby Heisman ..... but it's missing a silhouette of a woman dressed like a "tramp" clinging to Scooby Heisman

 

[longhorndude]

Here are some lowlights for Johnny Football.

Johnny Football - YouTube
Johnny Football (Radio Edit Version) - Derec Stanislav - YouTube

8 interceptions
22 sacks
his missed extra point
his arrest mugshot
his scooby doo outfit

Someone needs to make a video "lowlighting" these features of the freshman candidate and show why he doesn't deserve the award based on being the most "outstanding college football player whose performance best exhibits the pursuit of excellence with integrity." There has to be someone who has the time to do it. Make it happen...

 

[RDU Irish]

Are you using our offensive production to determing defensive efficiency>Téigh Gaeilge! ? Because you may be hurting your own cause. We have used our offense to take plays away from other teams this year. I bet those plays go higher if you look at game by game the number of defensive plays minus special teams we have given up. I calculated that Teo's tackles and interception against SC totaled over 12 of plays they ran (51) against us.

I think I am saying our defensive efficiency combined with our ball hog offense gives T'eo fewer chances to pad stats. I am mainly just brain dumping as I look at stats with no clue what I am looking for.

 

[IrishCat]

If its just about stats... then they just need to make a formula like in Fanstasy Football to determine the winner... then there's no argument. Kind of like a BCS system for Heisman... ya that'll fix it.

TDs= X
Yardage= Y
Receptions = Z
Completions = A
INTS= B
Fumbles = C
Tackles = D
Sacks= E
YFL= F

etc. etc.

Every year its a stat comparison at some point... sometimes (most times) stats win out, but other years other factors determine it.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I liked the idea of normalizing Te'o's defensive stats according to the average # of plays per game, and doing the same for Manziel. That should help remove some of the systemic bias.

 

[North Buffalo Irish]

There are some decent writers on Bleacher Report:

Notre Dame Football: Manti Te'o and the Fighting Irish Still Get No Respect | Bleacher Report

 

[WakeUpEchoes]

There are some decent writers on Bleacher Report:

Notre Dame Football: Manti Te'o and the Fighting Irish Still Get No Respect | Bleacher Report

The same guy will write an article tomorrow, on the same page, that says: Why Manti Te'o and Notre Dame Get Too Much Respect.

 

[TheChosen1]

Manti Te'o Notre Dame's 'special son' - wsbt.com