Politics

[pkt77242]

Are you talking about a military budget that includes wages, health and educational benefits, and retirement pensions for military members/vets? Is that the number you're hoping to use?

Well yes, if you are looking at all money spent to help the poor, than shouldn't we look at all military spending?

 

[In Lou I Trust]

I would say part of your problem is that you only equate their problems to slavery which ended long ago. Look at the banks getting sued over predatory loan practices to minorities Wells Fargo pledges $425 million in lending to settle suit - May. 30, 2012

Racism still exists in our society it has just moved from the overt "blacks aren't allowed here" etc, to a less noticeable but still damaging form. http://www.sentencingproject.org/doc/publications/rd_sentencing_review.pdf

While this is a disgusting practice did these banks force these individuals to take these high-priced loans?

 

[pkt77242]

I'm not saying that they're researching contraception online. I'm saying that sex and condoms are all over TV and the internet in the form of ads. Also, if a parent chooses to not talk to their kids about sex then they clearly weren't ready to be parents themselves. The blame needs to be placed squarely on the parents' shoulders.

So the child should suffer because the parent doesn't bring it up?

The numbers in this study should help you understand the issue. Well over the majority of parents don't discuss these topics with their children.

Parents Don't Talk About Birth Control Often Enough With Their Teens | ThinkProgress

 

[In Lou I Trust]

Well yes, if you are looking at all money spent to help the poor, than shouldn't we look at all military spending?

So we should compare the wages and benefits of a group of people who WORK to EARN these things to money GIVEN to people who ARE NOT earning a living? Those damn military members!! When will they stop taking handouts!?

 

[pkt77242]

While this is a disgusting practice did these banks force these individuals to take these high-priced loans?

Nope, but they just ****ed them over (racism remember) because they were poor and could force them into subprime loans (which were more profitable for the bank) because they didn't know any better. Causing them to have higher interest rates which made them more likely to default. Can you not grasp how that makes it more likely that they would fail.

Here is another bank with the same issue
BofA settles unfair lending claims for $335 million - Dec. 21, 2011

By your arguement if Madoff should have gotten off then because while what he did was disgusting the people investing with him should have known better? What kind of logic are you using?

 

[pkt77242]

So we should compare the wages and benefits of a group of people who WORK to EARN these things to money GIVEN to people who ARE NOT earning a living? Those damn military members!! When will they stop taking handouts!?

No I was argueing that the arguement was flawed and misleading because he kept saying that spending on poverty was growing faster than the spending on military but then only used the spending on wars to prove his point. That is misleading and manipulation of numbers. I said nothing about them getting handouts but you obviously failed reading comprehension.

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

You're being serious or stupid? If you believe that this country is even remotely close to what the Founding Fathers envisioned you're delusional.

Where does it say I think this country looks like they envisioned?

I asked can we move past bringing them up? Slavery and the Founding Fathers are both hundreds of years in the past...

 

[In Lou I Trust]

So the child should suffer because the parent doesn't bring it up?

The numbers in this study should help you understand the issue. Well over the majority of parents don't discuss these topics with their children.

Parents Don't Talk About Birth Control Often Enough With Their Teens | ThinkProgress

I feel like society believes teenagers are more ignorant than they are. I never said the child should suffer because parents aren't talking to them about this. I stated earlier that parents should not rely solely on the education system to teach their kids about sex. My apologies for not stating clearly that schools should teach about sex and only implying it.

 

[In Lou I Trust]

Where does it say I think this country looks like they envisioned?

I asked can we move past bringing them up? Slavery and the Founding Fathers are both hundreds of years in the past...

Slavery was brought up by others earlier as an excuse for poverty amongst blacks. I was only arguing against it.

 

[pkt77242]

I feel like society believes teenagers are more ignorant than they are. I never said the child should suffer because parents aren't talking to them about this. I stated earlier that parents should not rely solely on the education system to teach their kids about sex. My apologies for not stating clearly that schools should teach about sex and only implying it.

I agree that parents should take more responsibility but unfortunately most don't. Also I think teens are not usually ignorant about sex, but they many are ignorant about birth control and STDs. Studies bear this out.

 

[In Lou I Trust]

No I was argueing that the arguement was flawed and misleading because he kept saying that spending on poverty was growing faster than the spending on military but then only used the spending on wars to prove his point. That is misleading and manipulation of numbers. I said nothing about them getting handouts but you obviously failed reading comprehension.

Someone who is unable to spell correctly is questioning my reading comprehension ability? Nice. You are wanting to skew the numbers by comparing apples to oranges. Wages and benefits for military members is not an entitlement nor is it similar to money thrown at rebuilding the Middle East.

 

[In Lou I Trust]

By the way... though this conversation, at times, has gotten a little warm I've enjoyed it. This is something that more Americans should be doing regularly. Reps to all!

EDIT: I've exceeded my allotted reps for the day, apparently. My apologies for getting your hopes up. Just know that, in my mind, I'm repping every poster in here!! Cheers!

EDIT 2.0: I've made good on my promise!!!

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

By the way... though this conversation, at times, has gotten a little warm I've enjoyed it. This is something that more Americans should be doing regularly. Reps to all!

EDIT: I've exceeded my allotted reps for the day, apparently. My apologies for getting your hopes up. Just know that, in my mind, I'm repping every poster in here!! Cheers!

LIES ALL LIES. YOU INTENTIONALLY SKIPPED ME! JK

 

[pkt77242]

Someone who is unable to spell correctly is questioning my reading comprehension ability? Nice. You are wanting to skew the numbers by comparing apples to oranges. Wages and benefits for military members is not an entitlement nor is it similar to money thrown at rebuilding the Middle East.

Actually I wasn't the one who made the comparison I just pointed out that you can't keep saying military spending and the only give the figure for wars. That is misleading. I personally think comparing them proves nothing but I hate when people fudge the numbers to make their argument look stronger. Also I generally suck at typing on my phone so sometimes I spell **** wrong.

 

[In Lou I Trust]

Actually I wasn't the one who made the comparison I just pointed out that you can't keep saying military spending and the only give the figure for wars. That is misleading. I personally think comparing them proves nothing but I hate when people fudge the numbers to make their argument look stronger. Also I generally suck at typing on my phone so sometimes I spell **** wrong.

My apologies. So many people have been in on this convo that I got all you Liberals mixed up! ;-)

 

[pkt77242]

My apologies. So many people have been in on this convo that I got all you Liberals mixed up! ;-)

One needed. These debates get crazy in a hurry and it can people keep jumping in and out of arguments on both sides.

Also stop being cheap and buy the unlimited rep feature from the vbuck store.

 

[In Lou I Trust]

One needed. These debates get crazy in a hurry and it can people keep jumping in and out of arguments on both sides.

Also stop being cheap and buy the unlimited rep feature from the vbuck store.

I was unaware that there was such a thing! As a vBuck rich, white man I guess I could purchase it and not rep you for calling me out as being cheap! lol

 

[GoIrish41]

I'm not saying that they're researching contraception online. I'm saying that sex and condoms are all over TV and the internet in the form of ads. Also, if a parent chooses to not talk to their kids about sex then they clearly weren't ready to be parents themselves. The blame needs to be placed squarely on the parents' shoulders.

Deciding who to blame does not fix the problem.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

I'm not defending anything that Jeremiah Wright has said, but Allen West, who you posted previously, is much more of an idiot that Wright will every be.

I would vote for Allen West in my district before I let Jeremiah Wright do my wedding or baptize my kids

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

OK, so what is it about blacks that cause them to have bad upbringings, then?

From what I've read something like 70-80 percent of black children are born out of wedlock or have only one parent. That's a rough start no matter who you are. Doesn't mean you can't get out of it or be successful in life, but doesn't help your chances.

 

[WaveDomer]

No I was argueing that the arguement was flawed and misleading because he kept saying that spending on poverty was growing faster than the spending on military but then only used the spending on wars to prove his point. That is misleading and manipulation of numbers. I said nothing about them getting handouts but you obviously failed reading comprehension.

This isn't true by the way. I didn't only use spending on wars to prove a point. The quote on war spending was just a quote that took all total war spending through US history and compared it to the War on Poverty. Just the actual war spending, not defense spending through history.

But again, some posters act like we just need to spend money on all these programs. And we have and do. That was my point.

 

[Domina Nostra]

So the child should suffer because the parent doesn't bring it up?

The numbers in this study should help you understand the issue. Well over the majority of parents don't discuss these topics with their children.

Parents Don't Talk About Birth Control Often Enough With Their Teens | ThinkProgress

It's pretty clear that children are going to suffer and be at a big time disadvantage when their parents don't bring them up regardless of what we do. The idea that the government can step in and fill the void is just not realistic on any level. So much time and energy go into parenting. The efforts to fill the void of bad parents has shifted huge amounts of resources from other kids who now have to go to horribly bad schools where much of the time is spent on discipline, social work, basically everything but a challenging education. In other words, the "compassionate" response has made things worse.

The whole idea that these bad decisions and behaviors are a symptom of poverty, rather than the cause is not true. This is a football board. Look at what bad decisions with drugs, women, lavish living do to millionaire athletes and celebrities.

Sacrificial, stable families is the recipe to beat poverty in every community, white black, or Hispanic. Short-term thinking is a recipe for disaster in every community. But while it is apparently the government's role to step in and make up for bad parents, the government has no right to tell adults how to live their lives and no right to discourage bad behaviors. If that is the case, the plight of the poor will continue to get worse and a lot of middle class families will be joining their ranks, regardless of the money we throw at the problem.

 

[RDU Irish]

So the Al Smith dinner was pretty entertaining. I thought Romney would keep it more benign than he did. I think Obama was looking at his material halfway through Romney and thought, oh snap.

 

[RallySonsOfND]

Nope, but they just ****ed them over (racism remember) because they were poor and could force them into subprime loans (which were more profitable for the bank) because they didn't know any better. Causing them to have higher interest rates which made them more likely to default. Can you not grasp how that makes it more likely that they would fail.

Here is another bank with the same issue
BofA settles unfair lending claims for $335 million - Dec. 21, 2011

By your arguement if Madoff should have gotten off then because while what he did was disgusting the people investing with him should have known better? What kind of logic are you using?

Higher interest rates made them default? You gotta be kidding me. Riskier the loan, the higher the interest rate, that simple. Yeah the bank aims to make more off that loan because there is a higher chance that loan could default. Quit making it sound like the banks were out to **** people over. Bankers did not get together in a room and think of ways to screw the poor.

 

[RDU Irish]

State military school. Optional for all and first line of defense for problem kids. What do rich people do with their problem kids? Ship them off. Remove rotten elements from the crappy schools and suddenly everyone starts to do better and you can recruit and retain better teachers.

I have had clients who almost bankrupt themselves to get their kids into places like this because they are running with the wrong crowd. If this was an option for the poor, how many single parents could focus on work during the week and actually parent on when the kid is home over the weekend.+

On the school discipline side, what recourse do they have? This becomes a nuclear option that does not exist to put kids in line.

Kids are in crappy situations and we all talk a tough game but when it comes to solutions to provide a structure for success we refuse to ever remove children from destructive environments.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

I wish we would see more of this Romney:

Romney Addresses 67th Annual Alfred E. Smith Memorial Foundation Dinner | RealClearPolitics

Romney: I was hoping that President Obama would bring Joe Biden along, because he'll laugh at anything.

Romney: We were chatting pleasantly this evening as if Tuesday didn't happen.

Romney: Usually when I get invited to gatherings like this, it's just to be the designated driver.

Romney: We're down to the final months of the president's term.

Romney: I have my beautiful wife Ann, he has Bill Clinton.

Romney, referring to St. Peter, says skeptics will say "if you've got a Church, you didn't build that."

Romney says Obama's new campaign slogan is "you're better off than you were four weeks ago."

Romney: The president's remarks tonight are brought to you by the letter O and the number 16 trillion.

Romney says headlines will say "polls show Obama leading from behind."

 

[RDU Irish]

Community Reinvestment Act - Government pushed banks to do more with people that could not afford it. They had to get creative and they did. Hate player or hate the game?

 

[RDU Irish]

I wish we would see more of this Romney:

Romney Addresses 67th Annual Alfred E. Smith Memorial Foundation Dinner | RealClearPolitics

Romney: I was hoping that President Obama would bring Joe Biden along, because he'll laugh at anything.

Romney: We were chatting pleasantly this evening as if Tuesday didn't happen.

Romney: Usually when I get invited to gatherings like this, it's just to be the designated driver.

Romney: We're down to the final months of the president's term.

Romney: I have my beautiful wife Ann, he has Bill Clinton.

Romney, referring to St. Peter, says skeptics will say "if you've got a Church, you didn't build that."

Romney says Obama's new campaign slogan is "you're better off than you were four weeks ago."

Romney: The president's remarks tonight are brought to you by the letter O and the number 16 trillion.

Romney says headlines will say "polls show Obama leading from behind."

Quotes don't do the delivery justice. The guy behind him looked like he was going to pass out from laughing so hard. Very well done and very surprising to me, I know he didn't write the stuff but he delivered it like a pro.

 

[pkt77242]

Community Reinvestment Act - Government pushed banks to do more with people that could not afford it. They had to get creative and they did. Hate player or hate the game?

This has nothing to do with CRA. In some of these cases they were taking people with decent credit and forcing them into subprime loans because it was more profitable for them even when the people qualified for standard loans.

 

[tadman95]

Community Reinvestment Act - Government pushed banks to do more with people that could not afford it. They had to get creative and they did. Hate player or hate the game?

There is some legitimacy to this but there was much more to it. I was in the real estate business in a resort area. Banks were begging me to have our realtors bring them their clients, they had cash they had to get loaned out. No Doc and Low Doc loans were the preferred methods.

These were mostly 2nd and 3rd homes from $500,000 - $2,000,000. The banks own this as much as anyone and for the most part have gotten a pass. In fairness, I don't know that there were any real other options but the fallout has been mainly on the homeowners and not the banks. I know my house is worth a lot less and I had not role in that devaluation.