'11 PA TE Ben Koyack (Signed Notre Dame LOI)

Sherm Sticky

Sherm Sticky

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BeauBenken said:
How?

And Gholston is one talented and big man. Eifert sealing the edge on him does say a lot to how he has improved as a blocker.
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How is that not the coaches fault. On the first play of the game the coaches have to have the correct personal on the field. How is that not their faults?
 
Sherm Sticky

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NYMIKE to prove your point those are two scouts. Every where I have read says the same thing. He isn't a good inline blocker and needs to improve. I'm with you brotha.
 
Old Man Mike

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Koyack is going to be fine. The clue is that Kelly IS playing him. He would not play an incompetent person. Koyack was/has always been praised for his good hands. That will be demonstrated once we get some actual bulk gametime plays to gossip about. [Goodman, for instance, dropped one of his first punts a year ago, yet was the best actual fielder on the team --- sh!t happens].

NYMIKE has the general truth. In Kelly's scheme, Koyack is much more Eifert than Niklas/Welch. But no one takes an Eifert off the field much. So Ben gets rusty at what he's best at. Also, it constantly amazes me how IE posters can't take a middle road on anything, as these situations are almost never black and white. Kelly has said several times that both Tyler and Ben are not where he wants them to be on blocking quality. He has also said that both of them are making great strides there.

Why would Kelly run a play to Eifert's side?

A). Eifert is not completely incompetent even if he's not up to where Coach would want him to be;
B). That's where the chess game said the play had the greatest chance of surprise and systemic success;
C). Coach must assume competence in the players running the plays correctly as called, or he'd be in brainlock.

Much of this discussion sounds a bit like HS Debate Club, but thanks to NYMIKE for remembering coaching staff comments, player past performance, and the fact that such "throw him under the bus" stuff is based on ridiculously small game condition data points. Koyack is going to be a solid Notre Dame TE.
 
NYMIKE6

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Ok so i stand corrected majority evaluation on him is he plays really intense and tries hard... my bad... I am not trying to knock anyone I just don't see him being a great in-line blocker but i must admit he does a great job of "hanging on" or "getting in the way" of defenders...
 
Emcee77

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Bogtrotter07 said:
The play where Eifert drilled Gholson on the field goal drive. Maybe the best tight end block ever. Watch the game again. Eifert was so good at blocking we may have to call him the enforcer. He gave a maximum effiert.
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Bog, this play?? At 2:30 of this video?

Michigan State Highlights - Notre Dame Football - YouTube

I love you like a brutha, but that is hardly the best block ever, is it? I wouldn't say he drilled Gholston; he didn't knock him back or anything. I mean Gholston almost got to Wood actually. It got the job done but it certainly doesn't convince me by itself that Eifert is a "great" in-line blocker. Now, I'm not saying he's terrible either ... I totally agree with OMM, quoted below. On this site everyone takes extreme positions and assumes that everyone else is taking an extreme position. It's almost never that simple. Eifert and Ben are improving as blockers but its not the strength of either's game, not by a long shot.

Old Man Mike said:
Koyack is going to be fine. The clue is that Kelly IS playing him. He would not play an incompetent person. Koyack was/has always been praised for his good hands. That will be demonstrated once we get some actual bulk gametime plays to gossip about. [Goodman, for instance, dropped one of his first punts a year ago, yet was the best actual fielder on the team --- sh!t happens].

NYMIKE has the general truth. In Kelly's scheme, Koyack is much more Eifert than Niklas/Welch. But no one takes an Eifert off the field much. So Ben gets rusty at what he's best at. Also, it constantly amazes me how IE posters can't take a middle road on anything, as these situations are almost never black and white. Kelly has said several times that both Tyler and Ben are not where he wants them to be on blocking quality. He has also said that both of them are making great strides there. .

Why would Kelly run a play to Eifert's side?

A). Eifert is not completely incompetent even if he's not up to where Coach would want him to be;
B). That's where the chess game said the play had the greatest chance of surprise and systemic success;
C). Coach must assume competence in the players running the plays correctly as called, or he'd be in brainlock.

Much of this discussion sounds a bit like HS Debate Club, but thanks to NYMIKE for remembering coaching staff comments, player past performance, and the fact that such "throw him under the bus" stuff is based on ridiculously small game condition data points. Koyack is going to be a solid Notre Dame TE.
Click to expand...
 
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NYMIKE6

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DillonHall said:
I'd hate to have a tight end (good receiver or not) that can't block. Eifert is known for his pass-catching ability, but he's a hell of a blocker as well.
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So we go back to this original quote... meaning that he has to be really good... Which he is not really good but adequate... why debate it?
 
PANDFAN

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Bogtrotter07 said:
Don't mention it, because Troy was the one who ran on, # 85.

The play where Eifert drilled Gholson on the field goal drive. Maybe the best tight end block ever. Watch the game again. Eifert was so good at blocking we may have to call him the enforcer. He gave a maximum effiert.

And Kelly said just that in a press conference. That was his first reason for moving Niklas.

So what are we arguing about? Again, conflation.
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no need to be a d#ck but at least be right when you're going to correct someone
watch it again...it's 18

im not a member so i can't see the whole article but:
Notre Dame Football Recruiting and Basketball Recruiting ...www.irishsportsdaily.com/recruiting/.../football-recruit-detail.php?...Cached
You +1'd this publicly. Undo
1 day ago – Defensive Analysis: Michigan State ... A dominant defensive effort by the Irish was the key to a 20-3 victory over Michigan State yesterday at Spartan Stadium. ... The first play of the series is a great example of this as Le'Veon Bell is ... Irish as tight end Ben Koyack runs on the field late on the first play from ...

The Ugly – Not the most auspicious start for the Irish as tight end Ben Koyack runs on the field late on the first play from scrimmage and causes an offside penalty. The next attempt at a play found the trips on the wrong side of the formation and a timeout was burned.
Irish Sports Daily: Offensive Analysis: Michigan State ($))
 
Patulski

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I agree that the kid is struggling both as a receiver and blocking.

The discontent however I think is due to how the ratings agencies rated him. These kids come in with such high expectations, and when they don't produce immediately, it's the kids fault. It was better in the old days when nobody had expectations and the kid was judged for who he was, not what he was supposed to be.
 
B

Bogtrotter07

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Emcee77 said:
Bog, this play?? At 2:30 of this video?

Michigan State Highlights - Notre Dame Football - YouTube

I love you like a brutha, but that is hardly the best block ever, is it? I wouldn't say he drilled Gholston; he didn't knock him back or anything. I mean Gholston almost got to Wood actually. It got the job done but it certainly doesn't convince me by itself that Eifert is a "great" in-line blocker. Now, I'm not saying he's terrible either ... I totally agree with OMM, quoted below. On this site everyone takes extreme positions and assumes that everyone else is taking an extreme position. It's almost never that simple. Eifert and Ben are improving as blockers but its not the strength of either's game, not by a long shot.
Click to expand...

See we saw two different things. Eifert walled off Gholson; Gholson was contain. Eifert kept his body between Gholson and the ball carrier during the whole play. Eifert made a pile that no defender scraping to the play could penetrate. After taking his man out of the play, and making him run arounde Eifert away from the play, Eifert took his man to the turf. His man was Gholson. Let me repeat, Eiferts man was Gholson. I will take a block like this every time. Of course I hyperbolize all the time. There is no best block ever. But I will take this block from our tight ends every time. If our line and tight ends block like this Saturday, we will win big by running.

I love you like a brotha too. At least you don't love me like a sista.
 
BeauBenken

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Sherm Sticky said:
How is that not the coaches fault. On the first play of the game the coaches have to have the correct personal on the field. How is that not their faults?
Click to expand...

Because I doubt they weren't yelling his name or he hadn't already been told he was supposed to be in. He likely spaced that he should be out there first play of the game.
 
B

Bogtrotter07

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PANDFAN said:
no need to be a d#ck but at least be right when you're going to correct someone
watch it again...it's 18

im not a member so i can't see the whole article but:
Notre Dame Football Recruiting and Basketball Recruiting ...www.irishsportsdaily.com/recruiting/.../football-recruit-detail.php?...Cached
You +1'd this publicly. Undo
1 day ago – Defensive Analysis: Michigan State ... A dominant defensive effort by the Irish was the key to a 20-3 victory over Michigan State yesterday at Spartan Stadium. ... The first play of the series is a great example of this as Le'Veon Bell is ... Irish as tight end Ben Koyack runs on the field late on the first play from ...

The Ugly – Not the most auspicious start for the Irish as tight end Ben Koyack runs on the field late on the first play from scrimmage and causes an offside penalty. The next attempt at a play found the trips on the wrong side of the formation and a timeout was burned.
Irish Sports Daily: Offensive Analysis: Michigan State ($))
Click to expand...

You are right. I cued up the replay. What I thought they were showing as the replay of the event was Niklas moving in motion, or getting into position, because they were talking about the event at that time. Watching the game you could barely see old Ben at the top of the screen, and of course because it was so inconseqential they never showed it.

So, sorry. You were right, and it feels much better with my head out of my @ss!
 
Emcee77

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Patulski said:
I agree that the kid is struggling both as a receiver and blocking.

The discontent however I think is due to how the ratings agencies rated him. These kids come in with such high expectations, and when they don't produce immediately, it's the kids fault. It was better in the old days when nobody had expectations and the kid was judged for who he was, not what he was supposed to be.
Click to expand...

This is a great point. People used to say the same thing about Cierre when he was a sophomore, that he tried to win the Heisman on every play because he felt like he had to live up to expectations and he would get down on himself quickly. Cierre certainly has that confidence back now in his senior year, and I'm sure Koyack will get there too.
 
P

PraetorianND

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Patulski said:
I agree that the kid is struggling both as a receiver and blocking.

The discontent however I think is due to how the ratings agencies rated him. These kids come in with such high expectations, and when they don't produce immediately, it's the kids fault. It was better in the old days when nobody had expectations and the kid was judged for who he was, not what he was supposed to be.
Click to expand...

Ben clearly earned playing time. Maybe it's a situation where he is performing at practice and then when it's game time he's having trouble. Performance anxiety?
 
NDhoosier

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Koyack will be fine... Koyack is just like Eifert, a receiving TE. However, I think both sides of the Eifert in-line blocking debate are correct. It has been noted by every scout that Eifert needs to improve on inline blocking based on his play last year. However, Kelly stated that Eifert has improved to be an all around better TE and Eifert during an interview admitted that his biggest improvement over the off-season was to become a better blocker because that is part of being a TE. So maybe in some way, both sides are correct when it comes to Eifert's blocking

I was disappointed in Koyack's drops during the Navy game, but I think he will be a great receiving TE and I think his blocking will come in time, just like it did with Eifert.
 
irishff1014

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If he could figure out the the blocking this 3 TE system would be crazy.
 
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If he hasn't figured it out five games into the season it is not likely to occur this year.
 
yankeeND

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GBdomer said:
It all comes down to whether he has the potential or not.
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How could the experts be wrong on this? It was unanimous that Ben Koyack does indeed have potential and until his last snap he will continue to have it!;)

On a serious note though I'm starting to wonder if it's a confidence issue? Several drops and holds and just plain getting beat at the line is not the kid I saw on film coming out of high school. I really wish he could have sat his first year. I think it was just too soon to put him in the fire. The flip side of that is he is getting battle tested.
 
Jebediah Springfield

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Line him up against DBs, if he still struggles blocking smaller guys then just throw him the rock and let TE and TN handle the blocking.
 
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