Arkansas fan here with a question.

[ThePiombino]

You're playing a very tough schedule this year, and I would like to see as many teams as possible take down USC. Man I hate USC. Even if you end up at #24 this year, that's still not as high as the recruiting suggests you should be.

Also, keep in mind everyone that I am not here to start trouble or rip on your respected and storied program, it's just incredibly odd to me that ND has fallen into a slump that all measurements say it should have recovered from. There is something keeping your team from success even though it is right in front of you, and with the exception of the coaching staff, I can't grasp what that could possibly be.

We can be friends.

 

[tommyIRISH23]

Just because you post quantity doesn't make it quality. Some is true and the other three-quarters is what you've been fed from idiots that follow your blog. Use your own mind....It will set you free.

What did he write that was wrong? He hit the nail on the head with everything. Be specific, and explain your argument and offer your reasoning towards why ND isn't winning. Please avoid the vague and object-less "macro-forces" that keep ND from winning. I.e ND just can't get the athletes or the ND culture is out of touch or stuck in the past.

Also, just a point to make, two of my cousins were ND football tutors. According to them the assumption that ND only recruits world-class student athletes is flat out wrong. The athletes, particularly football players, consist of many average students who need to take advantage of all the offered resources to get through their studies. Granted, ND wont allow illiterate morons in, but the requirements seem to be much lower than the for the rest of the student body.

 

[Rhode Irish]

I can't believe this hasn't been mentioned yet but... there are those who believe a curse was placed on the program when BC kicked a winning field goal against ND in the last game of the season in 1993, effectively ruining its would be championship run. Ever since that kick, ND has not been in the mix for a championship.

A curse? Please tell me you aren't being serious. It hasn't been mentioned because it is idiotic.

 

[returnofthemack]

Just because you post quantity doesn't make it quality. Some is true and the other three-quarters is what you've been fed from idiots that follow your blog. Use your own mind....It will set you free.

Wow Mr. Rees, that post was about as awful as one of your sons' deep throw attempts.

 

[returnofthemack]

What did he write that was wrong? He hit the nail on the head with everything. Be specific, and explain your argument and offer your reasoning towards why ND isn't winning. Please avoid the vague and object-less "macro-forces" that keep ND from winning. I.e ND just can't get the athletes or the ND culture is out of touch or stuck in the past.

Also, just a point to make, two of my cousins were ND football tutors. According to them the assumption that ND only recruits world-class student athletes is flat out wrong. The athletes, particularly football players, consist of many average students who need to take advantage of all the offered resources to get through their studies. Granted, ND wont allow illiterate morons in, but the requirements seem to be much lower than the for the rest of the student body.

The requirements are absolutely lower. But the things is, many of the players work harder than the regular students and end up better because of it. I breezed through high school and got into everywhere I applied, including the Ivy Leagues. However, I was shocked when I came to ND because all the other students in my classes were just as smart as I was. I didn't work as hard as I should have, and that's why I didn't end up in med school right out of undergrad. These players may not be as smart/naturally gifted as the regular students, but you have to respect how hard they work to get good grades. Most of the players I knew worked their a$$ off and used the tutors to their advantage, as they should. To fit such a challenging curriculum into their already jam-packed schedule is very impressive, I don't care what major. The same cannot be said at other schools where the athletes are thrown into General Studies/Communications/Recreational Event Planning (No joke, that's a major at FL).

 

[returnofthemack]

Lol, info i have been fed from my blog? Considering I don't blog, I feel that you are making a ridiculous statement. Everything stated in there is 100% my opinion other than the facts that I did include. If you don't agree that is perfectly fine, but don't put words into my mouth or say something I never said. But another part of me is curious on what you don't agree with?


As far as standards, I agree to a point. ND has higher standards academically, socially than every team it plays on its schedule other than a Navy, Army, Air Force. Navy/Air Force have gotten the best of ND a few times in the few years, but overall ND has dominated those series. ND does require their players to actually attend class, do their own work, and go to study tables. A lot of schools don't put an emphasis on that and that does turn some of the top talent around.....but that is more of a reflection on that specific kid on what he wants in life. I have had the opportunity to be able to speak to Manti, Cierre at length to name a few on multiple occasions, and they are are just a different type of kid. They love football and they understand its their ticket to starting their career off right. But they came to ND for what ND gives them after football. Cierre said that ND could be in the middle of the desert and he would still would have came to ND, bc you could be in the Dubai and everyone knows the logo. They get it. They put in the work. ND does have the academic requirements to get into school and the requirement to maintain good grades, while some schools dont. So that is where ND does lose a 5 star kid bc he doesnt want to work. But, how many times does our fanbase pride itself or the staff uses the graduation rate as a selling point to a parent or recruit? There isn't a standard that is so high that kids cant get in or do it once they are here, that is why the graduation rate is so high. ND isn't recruiting kids that have to choose between MIT, Yale and ND. They are still choosing between Florida, usc, Michigan, Fsu, miami, ohio st, etc. It all comes down to what the kid wants, and in todays society an emphasis is placed on athletics over academics. Will that change? I dont know. But ND players are not held to the standards of the average student at ND.

Prime example of this...a recruit this year (most of you can probably guess), but all he needed was to take a foreign language over the summer or the fall to be able to qualify to receive a scholly/get into ND, but he decided he didn't want to. Another example is that some high schools have zero idea of the requirements of colleges that are recruiting students from their school. Kids are put into classes they dont need or classes that are easier to get them to graduate from high school. I personally don't think ND requiring a certain class/act-sat score is a bad thing. (that is my opinion by the way) It's what makes ND different and it also sets up who is going to be recruited and who isn't.

So to sum it up, I think ND does have higher standards than most schools in D1 NCAA, but not to the point where they arent getting the kids they need to win. Kelly has it right where he is getting the type of kid you need to win on and off the field. I mean if the ball bounces different in usf and michigan last year we go 10-2 with bad QB play for most of the year. ND isn't being held back and the proper adjustments have been made for that to happen. I mean theres a reason Tee Shepard hasn't been picked up by another D1 school believe it or not.

**this post is strictly my opinion. no other people have influenced this post, had a hand in writing this, nor was anyone asked questions while this post was being written

You don't need to defend yourself. I thought your first post was excellent. HCTI's probably still butthurt about Tommy being suspended against Navy.

 

[Rhode Irish]

Yeah, I'm not getting where HCTI is coming from here. I thought TP's post was pretty good, but I can accept that someone may have a different opinion. What I don't get is why HCTI would go after TP as a poster rather than explain what part of the post he disagreed with. HCTI can be a bit of a contrarian, but he's usually above blasting somebody for no apparent reason.

 

[TheTurningPoint]

Returnofthemack --- BINGO! The kids that dont succeed on the field are set for life. Ambrose Wooden had a decent career, but not good enough to last professionally....and is now at goldman sachs making bank. No offense to the original poster but is a Arkansas or LSU going to do that? Highly unlikely.

BUT. Its about getting a combo of kids that have athletic talent/potential as well as being a good student. We have a coach that maximizes the potential of his players and its evident in Harrison, Jamoris, Jonas, Hughes, Eifert, and you can even throw Tommy Rees in there. Weis was moving Harrison around to a new position every year. He put Jonas in the doghouse instead of building him up. Hughes took on Kellys approach and realized he isn't Armando Allen and he can run through people. I mean who would have thought Heggie would be listed as the 2nd string LG? Getting these kids in the same defense, offense, program is essential to success. The ELITE teams do not change their system. Switching it up to various styles of the offense can be seen in Bama, Lsu, Ohio St, usc, Oklahoma, but its all based on the same concepts. Kelly has brought the spread to ND, and changed it to his players. Not the players to his system. That is the sign of a good coach.

 

[tommyIRISH23]

TP,

In one of your previous posts you wrote how ND players would show up to games hungover? I didn't know that, that's outrageous. And, the CW coaching staff were throwing fists at each other? What the **** was going on?

 

[IrishMoore1]

A curse? Please tell me you aren't being serious. It hasn't been mentioned because it is idiotic.

I didn't say I believe in the curse. I just said there are those who do. The ball simply hasn't bounced ND's way since '93.

 

[Grahambo]

Returnofthemack --- BINGO! The kids that dont succeed on the field are set for life. Ambrose Wooden had a decent career, but not good enough to last professionally....and is now at goldman sachs making bank. No offense to the original poster but is a Arkansas or LSU going to do that? Highly unlikely.

BUT. Its about getting a combo of kids that have athletic talent/potential as well as being a good student. We have a coach that maximizes the potential of his players and its evident in Harrison, Jamoris, Jonas, Hughes, Eifert, and you can even throw Tommy Rees in there. Weis was moving Harrison around to a new position every year. He put Jonas in the doghouse instead of building him up. Hughes took on Kellys approach and realized he isn't Armando Allen and he can run through people. I mean who would have thought Heggie would be listed as the 2nd string LG? Getting these kids in the same defense, offense, program is essential to success. The ELITE teams do not change their system. Switching it up to various styles of the offense can be seen in Bama, Lsu, Ohio St, usc, Oklahoma, but its all based on the same concepts. Kelly has brought the spread to ND, and changed it to his players. Not the players to his system. That is the sign of a good coach.

Oh Ambrose, why couldn't you have been like an inch taller...sigh

BK is known for his ability to develop players. He is consistently ranked in the top of coaching ranks who send low star players to the NFL. It's about player development. If Kelly sees K. Russell as a CB, maybe even for just this year alone, then who am I to say you're doing it wrong?

No, he doesn't get it right all the time because well, he's human after all but he gets it.

 

[HereComeTheIrish]

TP,

In one of your previous posts you wrote how ND players would show up to games hungover? I didn't know that, that's outrageous. And, the CW coaching staff were throwing fists at each other? What the **** was going on?

Exactly... But hey, TP's word is golden, right?

 

[HereComeTheIrish]

Exactly... But hey, TP's word is golden, right?

Documentation and citing a source is your friend.... Just sayin'

 

[returnofthemack]

Exactly... But hey, TP's word is golden, right?

For that one part, you called him out like that? I figured with your fixation on numbers, you'd be better at doing math. That was a pretty long post for one sentence to be 3/4 of his post dictated to him by his "idiot readers". But then again, you've never been too good at seeing the big picture, have you Mr. 12-4? BTW, as a student, I heard those rumors numerous times. And they're really not very far-fetched considering how many football players you'd see partying hard after losses. I never heard or saw anything definitive about the coaches and their conflicts, but that's hardly something worth calling TP out over.

 

[HereComeTheIrish]

For that one part, you called him out like that? I figured with your fixation on numbers, you'd be better at doing math. That was a pretty long post for one sentence to be 3/4 of his post dictated to him by his "idiot readers". But then again, you've never been too good at seeing the big picture, have you Mr. 12-4? BTW, as a student, I heard those rumors numerous times. And they're really not very far-fetched considering how many football players you'd see partying hard after losses. I never heard or saw anything definitive about the coaches and their conflicts, but that's hardly something worth calling TP out over.

If we're going to play the "I believe all the hypothetical claims" game, I made the statement that *edit* (hypothetically), I think that 3/4 of what he said is nonsense.... How's that?

 

[NDinL.A.]

If we're going to play the "I believe all the hypothetical claims" game, I made the statement that *edit* (hypothetically), I think that 3/4 of what he said is nonsense.... How's that?

Almost as bad as your post. You offer no rebuttal, no reasoning, nothing. All you've done is talk crap about TP and anyone who follows him (and his mythical blog you made up), many of whom are members of this site and great Irish fans.

You know what the funny (and ironic) thing is? A year ago, you would have eaten this thing up. You would have repped him and probably bought him a vgift (I have many from the old HCTI). You used to KILL people for being negative (even if they were right), to the point that if you weren't a mod at the time, you would've been banned for all the personal crap you gave people. Yeah, I remember having to cover for you when you got into it with phork, kpenn, and others. Shoot, you even apologized for your 'unprofessional' behavior. But at least you were fighting the good fight, and admitting your own mistakes, which we all make.

But now? You're nothing but a curmudgeon. Rallying people against me and any other mod that dare tries to do our jobs, demanding free speech (LOL - if only people could see the threads you started as in the mod section about this very topic), and talking crap about people who skew positive? And why? What changed? Just b/c you were so epically and publicly wrong about Rees? (I agreed w/ you btw, all the way until the Stanford game. No biggie, it happens.)

Seriously, what happened to you? How about you debate TP's post (which certainly is open for debate), instead of just talking crap about people? Sad, cause you used to be a real cool dude...

 

[BGIF]

Documentation and citing a source is your friend.... Just sayin'

Documentation? You didn't even provide any substance in your ad hominem attack much less document anything (pro or con).

TP took the time to write out a lengthy response to the OP. You opted for a drive by mugging.



I also have never read TP's blog if there is one and I don't follow him or anyone on twitter.

 

[returnofthemack]

If we're going to play the "I believe all the hypothetical claims" game, I made the statement that *edit* (hypothetically), I think that 3/4 of what he said is nonsense.... How's that?

Hypothetical claims? It's a football forum, not CNN. He offered his opinion on why ND football was where it was, answering the Arkansas fan's question very nicely. Sure he threw out the Weis era statement like it was fact, but that was one (possibly) errant sentence in a long, mostly excellent post that summarized what many others had said. I know you fancy yourself as some sort of "rogue leader" but you don't have to be such a d*ck about it.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Getting these kids in the same defense, offense, program is essential to success. The ELITE teams do not change their system.

My two cents:

This quote is what I believe to be a major factor in ND's current standing. There has been way too many ****-poor coaching hires (until Brian Kelly). He has a system, he sticks to it. He molds his staff and his players to fit his system. This will pay huge dividends in time.

I also feel that terrible recruiting (defense and depth) and lack of player development during the previous regimes caused this situation as well.

I don't necessarily buy in to the high standards, weather, lack of beaches and girls being a huge factor. The right coach and winning will make all of the previously listed a non-factor for the most part.

Again, just my opinion and most of this has already been mentioned, but I feel this summarizes what I believe is the reason ND has been in a rut.

 

[Fbolt]

TP,

In one of your previous posts you wrote how ND players would show up to games hungover? I didn't know that, that's outrageous. And, the CW coaching staff were throwing fists at each other? What the **** was going on?

Agree-looking for clarification and cites please.

 

[TheTurningPoint]

What do u want me to cite for u? Cell phone numbers so u can text the players on the 07-08-09-10 teams?

 

[BleedBlueGold]

What do u want me to cite for u? Cell phone numbers so u can text the players on the 07-08-09-10 teams?

Don't sweat it man. People are gonna hate. They hate on you for not posting enough, they hate on you for posting too much. I, for one, appreciate all of your insight. Thanks.

 

[IrishLion]

What do u want me to cite for u? Cell phone numbers so u can text the players on the 07-08-09-10 teams?

I'm not necessarily the biggest fan of the "buzz buzz" and smiley-face posts, but when you bring a well thought-out and lengthy post to the table, it's A+ material. Don't worry about HCTI, he's declined to respond with actual debate 3 times now. Do what you do.

 

[johnnykillz]

Where is the OP now?

Good gosh.

Eat the pig.

Let's not all go cannibalistic and ****.

Save a thigh for me!

 

[ClausentoTate]

Players from those days (when I was a student) partied hard on Friday nights. Starters.

 

[no.1IrishFan]

Players from those days (when I was a student) partied hard on Friday nights. Starters.

I was not aware of this kind of stuff happening. I have to say, it upsets me, a lot. Is there no accountability from team leaders or the damn coaching staff for that matter!?

I would like to think this sh!t isn't going on on BK's watch.

They can't party on Saturday night....after the game?

 

[Emcee77]

You're playing a very tough schedule this year, and I would like to see as many teams as possible take down USC. Man I hate USC. Even if you end up at #24 this year, that's still not as high as the recruiting suggests you should be.

Also, keep in mind everyone that I am not here to start trouble or rip on your respected and storied program, it's just incredibly odd to me that ND has fallen into a slump that all measurements say it should have recovered from. There is something keeping your team from success even though it is right in front of you, and with the exception of the coaching staff, I can't grasp what that could possibly be.

Lol, OP, as you can see from the responses, ND fans are no clearer than you are on why we are in this slump. It's something we fight about amongst ourselves.

Ultimately I think what it comes down to is that we just haven't found the right coach at the right time. For instance, as others have already touched on, Weis seemed to get great recruits in terms of overall recruiting ranking, but his classes were not well-rounded, and by his own admission he could not put together a cohesive staff capable of coaching players up. For ND it's just been one coaching failure after another. And the coaches' flaws are only part of the story. Other posters have made many other excellent points.

I do think Coach Kelly has us on the right track though. He may be the right coach at the right time, finally.

 

[tommyIRISH23]

I think Kelly has us moving in the right direction, and I think we should see much improvement this season. I'd be shocked if we had a repeat of last seasons turnovers and mental breakdowns. While there are many question marks, i think many of those will be answered with experience. We were a better team than it showed last season, I think this is the year we play to our potential which will look like a huge leap in the eyes of those who dont follow ND regularly

 

[Fbolt]

What do u want me to cite for u? Cell phone numbers so u can text the players on the 07-08-09-10 teams?

Just asking as I had never heard of this before. Shocking. So, no, I don't need cell #'s, but thanks anyway.

 

[rocket66]

This board thrives on rumors. Funny how a random poster is praised for dropping information on a recruit when no one really knows if it's true or not, but TP, who is a respected poster gets a bunch of **** for what he says. You guys don't make sense. Quit trying to run off the good guys.