Arkansas fan here with a question.

[Bicycle99]

I see that the Irish are ranked #24 going into the season. In my mind, this is both overrated and underrated. Overrated, because obviously, Notre Dame has not been performing that well in recent years. And underrated because the school finished with a #8 recruiting class last year. Notre Dame ALWAYS hits it out of the park when they recruit, so expectations should be much higher. So… what has been keeping ND from top ten success the past 15 or 20 years? I don't know much about Brian Kelly, is he just not the coach to get it done? Big-time coaches should be lining up for a shot at being the next Fighting Irish leader. Is it just crappy luck? Unfavorable scheduling? I would like some insight as to why the ND empire has faded for a reason not apparent to me.

A lot of people on the Arkansas board (and other boards, I'm sure) tend to dislike ND on the whole "privilege" basis. Arkansas has been getting it done the past few years with 3-star players across the board, with a 4-star sprinkled here and there. I don't think we have had a 5-star recruit since like 2006 (who was in-state), and we've managed three very good seasons since then. Arkansas would kill to have access to quarterbacks like Gunner Kiel wanting to play for us on a constant basis (even though we're pretty set at the QB position for a little while, the point still stands), so there is a definite resentment present.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Last year was just a sick display of unfortunate turnovers for sure. I've never seen anything quite like it.

I would actually argue that they've played at around a ~#24 ranking the last two years. Simply put, #24 isn't that good, it's that borderline of "above average" and "good"....which is right where this Notre Dame program is.

Is Brian Kelly the coach? Well I think people who have paid attention would say that the faults of last years team were't very attributable to him.

They DOUBLED South Florida's yardage, and lost. Something like three turnovers inside the five yard line. WTF.
They were beating the **** out of Michigan after three quarters (24-7, and going for the 31-7/27-7 score) and lost.
They were beating FSU 14-3 after three quarters, and lost.

Hell they were charging to tie the game against USC until this unexplainable sh*t happened:

But to be fair, let's not act like they've been getting dirt-stomped by teams like they have been over the Weis/Willingham years. They are playing some damn fine football...sans the quarterback position. 2011 was their year to really make their mark, but the turnovers doomed that pretty quickly.

I'm very optimistic. Brian Kelly has a very, very impressive winning percentage (something like 74%) and has won everywhere he's coached. During his tenure at Notre Dame he has fixed nearly every flaw in the "basics," which for whatever reason the previous coaches couldn't handle.

BUT, I wouldn't look for 2012 to be the year Notre Dame rights the ship record-wise; at least I wouldn't bet on it. You'll have to wait until 2013 for that to happen.

 

[Bicycle99]

You're playing a very tough schedule this year, and I would like to see as many teams as possible take down USC. Man I hate USC. Even if you end up at #24 this year, that's still not as high as the recruiting suggests you should be.

Also, keep in mind everyone that I am not here to start trouble or rip on your respected and storied program, it's just incredibly odd to me that ND has fallen into a slump that all measurements say it should have recovered from. There is something keeping your team from success even though it is right in front of you, and with the exception of the coaching staff, I can't grasp what that could possibly be.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Oh I didn't think you were starting anything. I think you've been cordial.

I wouldn't look so much into those rankings though, they don't mean jack.

You can tell your Arkansas buds that essentially, Notre Dame is a QB away from being a good football team. This year they'll need a WR and CB to step up too, but they are lightyears ahead of where they were just a few short years ago. Unfortunately the record hasn't shown that, but the gameplay has---outside of the god damn mother f*cking turnovers!!!!!!! Oh god now I need a beer.

 

[Buster Bluth]

This board tends to really enjoy "outsides" (who are respectful) who stick around and join the discussion, and add a different perspective to the discussion. Feel free to stick around.

 

[stlnd01]

I see that the Irish are ranked #24 going into the season. In my mind, this is both overrated and underrated. Overrated, because obviously, Notre Dame has not been performing that well in recent years. And underrated because the school finished with a #8 recruiting class last year. Notre Dame ALWAYS hits it out of the park when they recruit, so expectations should be much higher. So… what has been keeping ND from top ten success the past 15 or 20 years? I don't know much about Brian Kelly, is he just not the coach to get it done? Big-time coaches should be lining up for a shot at being the next Fighting Irish leader. Is it just crappy luck? Unfavorable scheduling? I would like some insight as to why the ND empire has faded for a reason not apparent to me.

A lot of people on the Arkansas board (and other boards, I'm sure) tend to dislike ND on the whole "privilege" basis. Arkansas has been getting it done the past few years with 3-star players across the board, with a 4-star sprinkled here and there. I don't think we have had a 5-star recruit since like 2006 (who was in-state), and we've managed three very good seasons since then. Arkansas would kill to have access to quarterbacks like Gunner Kiel wanting to play for us on a constant basis (even though we're pretty set at the QB position for a little while, the point still stands), so there is a definite resentment present.

A few reasons/thoughts.

- Tough schedule. Maybe not SEC-tough most years at the top end, but also rarely a true patsy. We don't play FCS schools and most of the handful of non-BCS conference schools we play are usually pretty solid. So almost everyone we play is capable of beating us, and we're usually one of their bigger games.

- Not deep enough, talent-wise. In recent years we've had good top-end talent, especially at the offensive skill positions. But underneath that, not so much. Particularly on defense. Kelly is steadily improving this.

- Charlie Wies is not cut out to be a high-level college coach, and you could argue his last couple of years set the program back half a decade. This is related to the previous point. He was great with QBs and WRs and TEs. But too many players, especially on the defensive side of the ball, didn't develop properly while in college. They came in good, but didn't get much better. This is why we have top ten recruiting classes but then don't have top ten results.

- I'll probably get slammed for saying this, but I do think there's a subset of Notre Dame athletes who aren't hungry enough. They're good kids. They love ND. They're getting a great education. Their lives are going to be fine even if they only win eight games and never make it in the NFL. They know this, and it affects they way they approach the game. I think we need to be a little tougher as a program.

- Then there's all the usual excuses. Our kids do go have to go to class and be fairly solid citizens. They also have to live in single-sex dorms and winter in northern Indiana. We don't oversign. No JUCOs. Facts of life here. But they do matter.

That said, I absolutely think we have the potential to be a consistent Top 10-15 program, winning 10 or so games a year and playing for titles when things line up right. And I think Kelly's moving things in the right direction. Our schedule this year is killer, but we're setting up to be quite good in '13 and '14.

 

[Grahambo]

This board tends to really enjoy "outsides" (who are respectful) who stick around and join the discussion, and add a different perspective to the discussion. Feel free to stick around.

I'll second this.

 

[returnofthemack]

I'd say the most significant thing was that in Ty's years, we rarely got top-notch players on either side. During Weis' years, we only got some top-notch offensive players, not so much on defense. With Kelly, we're finally getting great players on both sides and they seem to be developing well (aside from the QBs). So I think we're getting back to a high level. Last year, we should have been 10-2 in the regular season, and we would have been if we hadn't gift-wrapped games to USF and michigan (contrary to all the scUM fans who think a 4-point win is a blowout). Kelly's made mistakes, and I totally disagree with his management of QBs, but he's also made significant strides.

The culture on ND's campus as far as football goes has become much more subdued. People can only take so many letdowns. I can tell you in the student body, most people are fairly pessimistic and jaded. We'll always be behind the team 100%, but there's definitely the mentality where if something goes wrong, we instantly assume everything will go wrong. This may have leaked into the team mentality in the past, but I think the ND family as a whole is healing. That being said, if Tommy Rees starts again, you can throw all of that out the window. Unless Rees has made significant strides, Kelly will lose most of his support and we'll fade back into our cycle of perpetual mediocrity.

 

[returnofthemack]

I also appreciate outside views, especially from fans of teams we don't play. I've loved watching the Razorbacks' offense and I hope you guys stay steady in your winning ways, even without Petrino.

 

[Naptown]

A few reasons/thoughts.

- Tough schedule. Maybe not SEC-tough most years at the top end, but also rarely a true patsy. We don't play FCS schools and most of the handful of non-BCS conference schools we play are usually pretty solid. So almost everyone we play is capable of beating us, and we're usually one of their bigger games.

- Not deep enough, talent-wise. In recent years we've had good top-end talent, especially at the offensive skill positions. But underneath that, not so much. Particularly on defense. Kelly is steadily improving this.

- Charlie Wies is not cut out to be a high-level college coach, and you could argue his last couple of years set the program back half a decade. This is related to the previous point. He was great with QBs and WRs and TEs. But too many players, especially on the defensive side of the ball, didn't develop properly while in college. They came in good, but didn't get much better. This is why we have top ten recruiting classes but then don't have top ten results.

- I'll probably get slammed for saying this, but I do think there's a subset of Notre Dame athletes who aren't hungry enough. They're good kids. They love ND. They're getting a great education. Their lives are going to be fine even if they only win eight games and never make it in the NFL. They know this, and it affects they way they approach the game. I think we need to be a little tougher as a program.

- Then there's all the usual excuses. Our kids do go have to go to class and be fairly solid citizens. They also have to live in single-sex dorms and winter in northern Indiana. We don't oversign. No JUCOs. Facts of life here. But they do matter.

That said, I absolutely think we have the potential to be a consistent Top 10-15 program, winning 10 or so games a year and playing for titles when things line up right. And I think Kelly's moving things in the right direction. Our schedule this year is killer, but we're setting up to be quite good in '13 and '14.

This.

I'll add another point that many won't like.

The aging alumni of ND have been another problem. The fans and ushers shushing younger fans who are not in the student section. The game atmosphere is just nothing compared to a game at Autzen or a game in the SEC.

I've heard ND loudest 2005 against USC but to be honest I think I heard more from the Florida Gators intro/pre-game.

I understand that alumni are what makes the program stand with their donations but football has evolved and ND has been left behind. I am a long time reader of ndnation.com boards and I cannot take the pessimism over there even if half of it is shtick.

We recruit some of the top student athletes in the country. That meant something 20-30 years ago. Kelly is doing everything he can to try to change it. Some of it has failed because the alumni will not stand together. They want to watch their games at noon, and be back at their moose lodge by 8PM.

I don't even have to explain the tailgating issue at ND.

In either case, with the social networking of today. Recruits know everything and I'm surprised any athlete wants to come to South Bend for a winter when they could glide through an education in the South.

Just my take.

 

[TheTurningPoint]

Can I answer this question?


-The reason that ND has been in a rut is a large part due to past coaching hires. Every team takes a dump for a few years then rises back up by either having a good season, getting a good coach, or just by luck. When Holtz left obviously there was going to be a decline at the HC position, so it was expected for ND to be down for a year or so, or even to the point that they could be established again with a new coach. That never happened. Willingham set ND back 4-5 years in his short time here solely bc his recruiting classes had no blocks for the future. Weis came in and had an experienced team from the start and he won games and got the BCS. With those being 2 good years and won some big ball games, Weis was failing on the recruiting for the program. He was bringing in Clausen, Golden, Rudolph, Crist, Floyd, top of the line kids. But he was striking out on depth. At one point in 2007 when ND went 3-9, our 2 starting WRs were 5'8 and 5'9 and werent burners. 2007 Weis started freshmen at Qb, RB, WR, OL, DE, DT, OLB...no team is going to win with that reguardless of how talented the kids are. I think we played 18 true frosh that year. One would think that would lead to them being battle tested and ready to blow up the next 2 years. But in hindsight there were players who took steps forward but the majority ended their 4 year career as their freshmen year was their best year. Weis couldnt recruit the depth needed at key positions to enhance competition in practice to make the team better, nor could he motivate the team. I dont know how much you watched ND then or at all, but Weis had teams that were very undisciplined. That was attributed to them showing up hungover to games and not being able to be focused. Add in the fact that the coaching staff had restraining orders against each other, and were times punches were thrown from one staff member towards another. It was a terrible situation. The kids had no one to guide them nor develop them bc of disagreements or egos from the staff.

Arrive Brian Kelly. Kelly walks into a situation that was beyond being able to be repaired in a manner that was acceptable in many fans eyes, but they had no idea of the situation. Kelly arrives with a kid at QB Dayne Crist that much of the fanbase wanted to start over argubly the best QB in ND history in Clausen. Crist starts off with a W and starts off the biggest game of the Kelly era with a TD drive in game 2 vs Michigan. Next series Crist runs and takes a hit and is knocked out of the game. Kelly trots out a freshmen Tommy Rees who in his first play audibles to a flea flicker and throws a INT. Over the course of the first half Crist's teammates come up to him and ask if he is ok bc he isnt playing, he insists he is ok...but by that answer he was losing his leadership with the team. If he is ok, then why isnt he in the game? Crist comes back in the 2nd half and leads the team to an almost legendary comeback. Crist then proceeds to have a good year till he pretty much tore his knee to shreads, and Rees is inserted again. Rees plays well, and comes down to a close game vs Tulsa. Instead of electing to tie the game and go to OT, kelly has his true frosh qb take a shot to the best WR in school history...that pass gets picked off. Many of ND fans rip Kelly, and destroy him for the play call. BUT, this is only my opinon.....that moment changed the team for the better. Even in a loss to a subpar team, Kelly sent the message he is hear to win and he expects his players to be able to make plays to win. Bye week. And ND ends the years with Utah who was ranked high, Army, and usc. Every ND fan was dreading it bc it was going to be a losing season. But what do you know...the message was received and ND ends the year beating Utah, Army, usc and The U in the Sun Bowl. Summary of year 1...Kelly changed the attitude from playing not to lose to playing to win.

Enter year 2. With a 4 game winning streak and a hell of recruiting class, expectations are sky high. 2 games in, ND is 0-2 and both games were lost bc of 10 turnovers. Both games could have been coached a little better, but at the sametime players made bone headed mistakes that you cannot pin to a coach because the turnovers were just so unlucky or the player just made a terrible throw when there was a guy open but threw 5 yrds behind him or threw into double/triple coverage. ND pieces it together and get the **** out of a good Mich St team....and gets on a roll and wins close games ND would have lost in the past 10 years. They are taking on the attitude of their coach and playing physical and playing hungry. They end the year on a rough skid bc of decision making from the qb, and inconsistent line play. But, year 2 they applied what they learned from year 1 and played each game to win, played till the whistle and there wasnt a game where you just saw zero effort from the team as we had in the past. Year 2 they learned how to win those games, and essentially learned how to win and handle adversity. There were some legendary turnovers, plays made against ND, but each time they took that punch and punched right back. That is a sign that a football team cares and that the players have bought into their roles.

Year 3 -- Its going to come down to winning the big game. ND has plenty of them on schedule. Theres 3 that stick out in Michigan, Oklahoma, and usc. If they can get 2 of the 3 or even Ok/sc on the road I think that will be the sign that ND is becoming that team that people are going to see as a damn good team.

I touched on recruiting a little bit, but the difference between Kelly and Weis for example is that Kelly is recruiting to build a program for a "dynasty" type run, not just building for a year run at the Natl Title. He is recruiting depth at the right spots, and getting players that are flexible so he can place them to literally get his best players on the field.

I do not follow Arkansas football too closely, but Im willing to bet that each position that is filled has a player that can come in behind him and theres very little drop off. ND has had talent to compete with BCS teams over the past 6-7 years in their starting lineup. But football is a game of injuries, as well as you can play 22 guys in a game. Kelly is building that depth that teams need to be successful.

Kelly is the right man for the job, and his staff compliments him to a T. Kelly is building the program the right way, and the way you build a program. You might not see it record wise, but you can see it within the team, and it will all click and that is when ND will be back.

 

[4irishnation]

LOL

. Man I hate USC.

Can you say Mitch Mustain

 

[Irishman77]

Bicycle99 just became an Irish fan. Great post TP!

 

[polishjuice4]

I know our newest commit Jamel James was committed to Arkansas. What were your thoughts on him, if you don't mind.

 

[Zwidmanio]

A few reasons/thoughts.

- Tough schedule. Maybe not SEC-tough most years at the top end, but also rarely a true patsy. We don't play FCS schools and most of the handful of non-BCS conference schools we play are usually pretty solid. So almost everyone we play is capable of beating us, and we're usually one of their bigger games.

I get what you're saying here, and in a way I agree, but Notre Dame has always played difficult schedules and has managed to win in the past. Just in my lifetime, Holtz played some beastly schedules and we know what he managed to do. I think the following factors you listed are more significant and the ones that needed to have been focused on by Kelly because, it just wouldn't be ND if we didn't consistently play difficult schedules.

- Not deep enough, talent-wise. In recent years we've had good top-end talent, especially at the offensive skill positions. But underneath that, not so much. Particularly on defense. Kelly is steadily improving this.

I think this is perhaps the largest factor along with general incompetence in building a "program." As you noted, talent on the defensive side has been lacking, but more particularly, our d-lines have been relatively week over the past decade or so. This is one of the areas that I've been most pleased with since Kelly has taken over. I really couldn't be happier with the way our front seven has been taking shape.

- Charlie Wies is not cut out to be a high-level college coach, and you could argue his last couple of years set the program back half a decade. This is related to the previous point. He was great with QBs and WRs and TEs. But too many players, especially on the defensive side of the ball, didn't develop properly while in college. They came in good, but didn't get much better. This is why we have top ten recruiting classes but then don't have top ten results.

Very true. I just wanted to add that the way Charlie switched D-coordinators and defensive schemes nearly every year could be used as a guide for "Ways to Not Field a Decent Defense During Your Run."

- I'll probably get slammed for saying this, but I do think there's a subset of Notre Dame athletes who aren't hungry enough. They're good kids. They love ND. They're getting a great education. Their lives are going to be fine even if they only win eight games and never make it in the NFL. They know this, and it affects they way they approach the game. I think we need to be a little tougher as a program.

This might be true, I'm not sure since I don't know any players personally nor do I have any insider connections. However, assuming it is/was true, I think that a lot of that could be solved by having focused and coherent goals for the program along with an expectation of excellence on the field as well as off of it. I like what Kelly has been doing in this regard. It might be a biased near-term view, but it really seems like the team and the recruits we have been getting are hungrier than I remember in the recent past.

- Then there's all the usual excuses. Our kids do go have to go to class and be fairly solid citizens. They also have to live in single-sex dorms and winter in northern Indiana. We don't oversign. No JUCOs. Facts of life here. But they do matter.

Similar to your first point I think. This is what ND is, we need to correct all the other things because it can and, God willing, will be done.

That said, I absolutely think we have the potential to be a consistent Top 10-15 program, winning 10 or so games a year and playing for titles when things line up right. And I think Kelly's moving things in the right direction. Our schedule this year is killer, but we're setting up to be quite good in '13 and '14.

Agreed. Good thorough post.

 

[JadeBrecks]

Can I answer this question?


-The reason that ND has been in a rut is a large part due to past coaching hires. Every team takes a dump for a few years then rises back up by either having a good season, getting a good coach, or just by luck. When Holtz left obviously there was going to be a decline at the HC position, so it was expected for ND to be down for a year or so, or even to the point that they could be established again with a new coach. That never happened. Willingham set ND back 4-5 years in his short time here solely bc his recruiting classes had no blocks for the future. Weis came in and had an experienced team from the start and he won games and got the BCS. With those being 2 good years and won some big ball games, Weis was failing on the recruiting for the program. He was bringing in Clausen, Golden, Rudolph, Crist, Floyd, top of the line kids. But he was striking out on depth. At one point in 2007 when ND went 3-9, our 2 starting WRs were 5'8 and 5'9 and werent burners. 2007 Weis started freshmen at Qb, RB, WR, OL, DE, DT, OLB...no team is going to win with that reguardless of how talented the kids are. I think we played 18 true frosh that year. One would think that would lead to them being battle tested and ready to blow up the next 2 years. But in hindsight there were players who took steps forward but the majority ended their 4 year career as their freshmen year was their best year. Weis couldnt recruit the depth needed at key positions to enhance competition in practice to make the team better, nor could he motivate the team. I dont know how much you watched ND then or at all, but Weis had teams that were very undisciplined. That was attributed to them showing up hungover to games and not being able to be focused. Add in the fact that the coaching staff had restraining orders against each other, and were times punches were thrown from one staff member towards another. It was a terrible situation. The kids had no one to guide them nor develop them bc of disagreements or egos from the staff.

Arrive Brian Kelly. Kelly walks into a situation that was beyond being able to be repaired in a manner that was acceptable in many fans eyes, but they had no idea of the situation. Kelly arrives with a kid at QB Dayne Crist that much of the fanbase wanted to start over argubly the best QB in ND history in Clausen. Crist starts off with a W and starts off the biggest game of the Kelly era with a TD drive in game 2 vs Michigan. Next series Crist runs and takes a hit and is knocked out of the game. Kelly trots out a freshmen Tommy Rees who in his first play audibles to a flea flicker and throws a INT. Over the course of the first half Crist's teammates come up to him and ask if he is ok bc he isnt playing, he insists he is ok...but by that answer he was losing his leadership with the team. If he is ok, then why isnt he in the game? Crist comes back in the 2nd half and leads the team to an almost legendary comeback. Crist then proceeds to have a good year till he pretty much tore his knee to shreads, and Rees is inserted again. Rees plays well, and comes down to a close game vs Tulsa. Instead of electing to tie the game and go to OT, kelly has his true frosh qb take a shot to the best WR in school history...that pass gets picked off. Many of ND fans rip Kelly, and destroy him for the play call. BUT, this is only my opinon.....that moment changed the team for the better. Even in a loss to a subpar team, Kelly sent the message he is hear to win and he expects his players to be able to make plays to win. Bye week. And ND ends the years with Utah who was ranked high, Army, and usc. Every ND fan was dreading it bc it was going to be a losing season. But what do you know...the message was received and ND ends the year beating Utah, Army, usc and The U in the Sun Bowl. Summary of year 1...Kelly changed the attitude from playing not to lose to playing to win.

Enter year 2. With a 4 game winning streak and a hell of recruiting class, expectations are sky high. 2 games in, ND is 0-2 and both games were lost bc of 10 turnovers. Both games could have been coached a little better, but at the sametime players made bone headed mistakes that you cannot pin to a coach because the turnovers were just so unlucky or the player just made a terrible throw when there was a guy open but threw 5 yrds behind him or threw into double/triple coverage. ND pieces it together and get the **** out of a good Mich St team....and gets on a roll and wins close games ND would have lost in the past 10 years. They are taking on the attitude of their coach and playing physical and playing hungry. They end the year on a rough skid bc of decision making from the qb, and inconsistent line play. But, year 2 they applied what they learned from year 1 and played each game to win, played till the whistle and there wasnt a game where you just saw zero effort from the team as we had in the past. Year 2 they learned how to win those games, and essentially learned how to win and handle adversity. There were some legendary turnovers, plays made against ND, but each time they took that punch and punched right back. That is a sign that a football team cares and that the players have bought into their roles.

Year 3 -- Its going to come down to winning the big game. ND has plenty of them on schedule. Theres 3 that stick out in Michigan, Oklahoma, and usc. If they can get 2 of the 3 or even Ok/sc on the road I think that will be the sign that ND is becoming that team that people are going to see as a damn good team.

I touched on recruiting a little bit, but the difference between Kelly and Weis for example is that Kelly is recruiting to build a program for a "dynasty" type run, not just building for a year run at the Natl Title. He is recruiting depth at the right spots, and getting players that are flexible so he can place them to literally get his best players on the field.

I do not follow Arkansas football too closely, but Im willing to bet that each position that is filled has a player that can come in behind him and theres very little drop off. ND has had talent to compete with BCS teams over the past 6-7 years in their starting lineup. But football is a game of injuries, as well as you can play 22 guys in a game. Kelly is building that depth that teams need to be successful.

Kelly is the right man for the job, and his staff compliments him to a T. Kelly is building the program the right way, and the way you build a program. You might not see it record wise, but you can see it within the team, and it will all click and that is when ND will be back.

Massive +1 I also believe the luck of the Irish has been evening itself out over the last good number of years. It seems like forever since the ball bounced our way.

 

[irishtrinity]

Every team has it's bad yrs.. Look at any team and you will find a bad 5-10 yrs alot..

Look at LSU
1988-2000 8 yrs out of 12 they had only 5-6 wins. Also from 62-86 not one 10 win season.. They have been hot for 10 yrs now..

Oregon also has just caught fire look at them in the 90's-80's.

USC went from 1980-2001 with 1 10 win season. Now they have been on fire..

Look at ND from 2001-2011
Two 10 win seasons 2 BCS 3 bad yrs

1991-2001
Three 10 win seasons, and from 91-2011ND has three season of 5 wins or less. That pretty good.

With all that said i would add ND never has played any FCS team or even 2 in one yr like alot of the Conferences do.. Put ND in any conference at two cupcake FCS teams tarnish our shine a little and we would be 10 win season every yr i would say..

Also no JUCO players. We have so many things to work around..

We have a great coach, and killer team so i know ND Football is very good now and for the future..

 

[irishtrinity]

Arkansas got a 5 star from Michigan.. Ryan Mallett.. Tyler is a great QB also.

 

[irishtrain]

This board tends to really enjoy "outsides" (who are respectful) who stick around and join the discussion, and add a different perspective to the discussion. Feel free to stick around.

You'll find most people here pretty good as long as you dont cut and slash against Notre Dame. I love the Irish make no mistake about it but I'd say we're about equal to Kentucky and I give Notre Dame around #35 in the country. I would like to hear more on why Notre Dame is hated so much in the south and do people realize how much Notre Dame has done for college football when it was strong. Most of us now know the position of this football program and understand what to expect but the age old question of why the hatred is always curious to me. I was always told as a boy hatred comes from fear-what does southern football fear from a program in a deep sleep.

 

[HereComeTheIrish]

Can I answer this question?


-The reason that ND has been in a rut is a large part due to past coaching hires. Every team takes a dump for a few years then rises back up by either having a good season, getting a good coach, or just by luck. When Holtz left obviously there was going to be a decline at the HC position, so it was expected for ND to be down for a year or so, or even to the point that they could be established again with a new coach. That never happened. Willingham set ND back 4-5 years in his short time here solely bc his recruiting classes had no blocks for the future. Weis came in and had an experienced team from the start and he won games and got the BCS. With those being 2 good years and won some big ball games, Weis was failing on the recruiting for the program. He was bringing in Clausen, Golden, Rudolph, Crist, Floyd, top of the line kids. But he was striking out on depth. At one point in 2007 when ND went 3-9, our 2 starting WRs were 5'8 and 5'9 and werent burners. 2007 Weis started freshmen at Qb, RB, WR, OL, DE, DT, OLB...no team is going to win with that reguardless of how talented the kids are. I think we played 18 true frosh that year. One would think that would lead to them being battle tested and ready to blow up the next 2 years. But in hindsight there were players who took steps forward but the majority ended their 4 year career as their freshmen year was their best year. Weis couldnt recruit the depth needed at key positions to enhance competition in practice to make the team better, nor could he motivate the team. I dont know how much you watched ND then or at all, but Weis had teams that were very undisciplined. That was attributed to them showing up hungover to games and not being able to be focused. Add in the fact that the coaching staff had restraining orders against each other, and were times punches were thrown from one staff member towards another. It was a terrible situation. The kids had no one to guide them nor develop them bc of disagreements or egos from the staff.

Arrive Brian Kelly. Kelly walks into a situation that was beyond being able to be repaired in a manner that was acceptable in many fans eyes, but they had no idea of the situation. Kelly arrives with a kid at QB Dayne Crist that much of the fanbase wanted to start over argubly the best QB in ND history in Clausen. Crist starts off with a W and starts off the biggest game of the Kelly era with a TD drive in game 2 vs Michigan. Next series Crist runs and takes a hit and is knocked out of the game. Kelly trots out a freshmen Tommy Rees who in his first play audibles to a flea flicker and throws a INT. Over the course of the first half Crist's teammates come up to him and ask if he is ok bc he isnt playing, he insists he is ok...but by that answer he was losing his leadership with the team. If he is ok, then why isnt he in the game? Crist comes back in the 2nd half and leads the team to an almost legendary comeback. Crist then proceeds to have a good year till he pretty much tore his knee to shreads, and Rees is inserted again. Rees plays well, and comes down to a close game vs Tulsa. Instead of electing to tie the game and go to OT, kelly has his true frosh qb take a shot to the best WR in school history...that pass gets picked off. Many of ND fans rip Kelly, and destroy him for the play call. BUT, this is only my opinon.....that moment changed the team for the better. Even in a loss to a subpar team, Kelly sent the message he is hear to win and he expects his players to be able to make plays to win. Bye week. And ND ends the years with Utah who was ranked high, Army, and usc. Every ND fan was dreading it bc it was going to be a losing season. But what do you know...the message was received and ND ends the year beating Utah, Army, usc and The U in the Sun Bowl. Summary of year 1...Kelly changed the attitude from playing not to lose to playing to win.

Enter year 2. With a 4 game winning streak and a hell of recruiting class, expectations are sky high. 2 games in, ND is 0-2 and both games were lost bc of 10 turnovers. Both games could have been coached a little better, but at the sametime players made bone headed mistakes that you cannot pin to a coach because the turnovers were just so unlucky or the player just made a terrible throw when there was a guy open but threw 5 yrds behind him or threw into double/triple coverage. ND pieces it together and get the **** out of a good Mich St team....and gets on a roll and wins close games ND would have lost in the past 10 years. They are taking on the attitude of their coach and playing physical and playing hungry. They end the year on a rough skid bc of decision making from the qb, and inconsistent line play. But, year 2 they applied what they learned from year 1 and played each game to win, played till the whistle and there wasnt a game where you just saw zero effort from the team as we had in the past. Year 2 they learned how to win those games, and essentially learned how to win and handle adversity. There were some legendary turnovers, plays made against ND, but each time they took that punch and punched right back. That is a sign that a football team cares and that the players have bought into their roles.

Year 3 -- Its going to come down to winning the big game. ND has plenty of them on schedule. Theres 3 that stick out in Michigan, Oklahoma, and usc. If they can get 2 of the 3 or even Ok/sc on the road I think that will be the sign that ND is becoming that team that people are going to see as a damn good team.

I touched on recruiting a little bit, but the difference between Kelly and Weis for example is that Kelly is recruiting to build a program for a "dynasty" type run, not just building for a year run at the Natl Title. He is recruiting depth at the right spots, and getting players that are flexible so he can place them to literally get his best players on the field.

I do not follow Arkansas football too closely, but Im willing to bet that each position that is filled has a player that can come in behind him and theres very little drop off. ND has had talent to compete with BCS teams over the past 6-7 years in their starting lineup. But football is a game of injuries, as well as you can play 22 guys in a game. Kelly is building that depth that teams need to be successful.

Kelly is the right man for the job, and his staff compliments him to a T. Kelly is building the program the right way, and the way you build a program. You might not see it record wise, but you can see it within the team, and it will all click and that is when ND will be back.

Just because you post quantity doesn't make it quality. Some is true and the other three-quarters is what you've been fed from idiots that follow your blog. Use your own mind....It will set you free.

 

[irishtrain]

Just because you post quantity doesn't make it quality. Some is true and the other three-quarters is what you've been fed from idiots that follow your blog. Use your own mind....It will set you free.

Agree and the reason Notre Dame has been in a rut is very simple-those who run the school have decidied to play it that way. A staff of Lombardi/Knoll/Landry/Stagg/Rockne/ couldnt win with these standards and players against minor league pro football. I keep calling college football minor league football- is anyone getting this. Its not the coaches its the system and how they have decided to play it. Do you think people from Ala ( or fill in the school )give a %$#@ about their players and are they being educated/prepared etc for life after college. Hell no. Notre Dame has chosen to be a shinning example-great- and they're going to start the season 1-1 and end up 7-5.

 

[irishfanjho15]

You'll find most people here pretty good as long as you dont cut and slash against Notre Dame. I love the Irish make no mistake about it but I'd say we're about equal to Kentucky and I give Notre Dame around #35 in the country. I would like to hear more on why Notre Dame is hated so much in the south and do people realize how much Notre Dame has done for college football when it was strong. Most of us now know the position of this football program and understand what to expect but the age old question of why the hatred is always curious to me. I was always told as a boy hatred comes from fear-what does southern football fear from a program in a deep sleep.

Lots to fear. Like the Yankees, when ND comes back the hate will just get worse. Well for everyone but us.

 

[IrishMoore1]

I can't believe this hasn't been mentioned yet but... there are those who believe a curse was placed on the program when BC kicked a winning field goal against ND in the last game of the season in 1993, effectively ruining its would be championship run. Ever since that kick, ND has not been in the mix for a championship.

 

[irishog77]

You'll find most people here pretty good as long as you dont cut and slash against Notre Dame. I love the Irish make no mistake about it but I'd say we're about equal to Kentucky and I give Notre Dame around #35 in the country. I would like to hear more on why Notre Dame is hated so much in the south and do people realize how much Notre Dame has done for college football when it was strong. Most of us now know the position of this football program and understand what to expect but the age old question of why the hatred is always curious to me. I was always told as a boy hatred comes from fear-what does southern football fear from a program in a deep sleep.

Kentucky is awful and has an awful head coach. ND hasn't been for awhile and isn't currently an elite program...but ND ain't Kentucky. ND is a whole helluva lot closer to being elite (or even just plain solid) than Kentucky.

 

[DSully1995]

I can't believe this hasn't been mentioned yet but... there are those who believe a curse was placed on the program when BC kicked a winning field goal against ND in the last game of the season in 1993, effectively ruining its would be championship run. Ever since that kick, ND has not been in the mix for a championship.

2005?

 

[IrishMoore1]

2005?

No ND wasn't close in 2005, not like in 1993. In '93 I believe ND beat a #1 team. And considering that we got blown out in the BCS game in '05, we would have no business playing in a championship game.

 

[NDinL.A.]

Just because you post quantity doesn't make it quality. Some is true and the other three-quarters is what you've been fed from idiots that follow your blog. Use your own mind....It will set you free.

Relax dude. That's a ridiculous post. Where in his post did he say that because he wrote a lot, that it means it was a quality post.

And where do you get off calling people who read his blog 'idiots'? I've never read his blog, but a lot of members of this site read his blog - that makes them idiots?

How about this: Why don't you use your own mind, and try responding to his post with actual dialogue about why 3/4 of it isn't true? It's called debate, and it makes for a better board. But whatever you do, don't do what you did up there. That's just lazy and wrong.

Man, what happened to you?

 

[TheTurningPoint]

Just because you post quantity doesn't make it quality. Some is true and the other three-quarters is what you've been fed from idiots that follow your blog. Use your own mind....It will set you free.

Lol, info i have been fed from my blog? Considering I don't blog, I feel that you are making a ridiculous statement. Everything stated in there is 100% my opinion other than the facts that I did include. If you don't agree that is perfectly fine, but don't put words into my mouth or say something I never said. But another part of me is curious on what you don't agree with?


As far as standards, I agree to a point. ND has higher standards academically, socially than every team it plays on its schedule other than a Navy, Army, Air Force. Navy/Air Force have gotten the best of ND a few times in the few years, but overall ND has dominated those series. ND does require their players to actually attend class, do their own work, and go to study tables. A lot of schools don't put an emphasis on that and that does turn some of the top talent around.....but that is more of a reflection on that specific kid on what he wants in life. I have had the opportunity to be able to speak to Manti, Cierre at length to name a few on multiple occasions, and they are are just a different type of kid. They love football and they understand its their ticket to starting their career off right. But they came to ND for what ND gives them after football. Cierre said that ND could be in the middle of the desert and he would still would have came to ND, bc you could be in the Dubai and everyone knows the logo. They get it. They put in the work. ND does have the academic requirements to get into school and the requirement to maintain good grades, while some schools dont. So that is where ND does lose a 5 star kid bc he doesnt want to work. But, how many times does our fanbase pride itself or the staff uses the graduation rate as a selling point to a parent or recruit? There isn't a standard that is so high that kids cant get in or do it once they are here, that is why the graduation rate is so high. ND isn't recruiting kids that have to choose between MIT, Yale and ND. They are still choosing between Florida, usc, Michigan, Fsu, miami, ohio st, etc. It all comes down to what the kid wants, and in todays society an emphasis is placed on athletics over academics. Will that change? I dont know. But ND players are not held to the standards of the average student at ND.

Prime example of this...a recruit this year (most of you can probably guess), but all he needed was to take a foreign language over the summer or the fall to be able to qualify to receive a scholly/get into ND, but he decided he didn't want to. Another example is that some high schools have zero idea of the requirements of colleges that are recruiting students from their school. Kids are put into classes they dont need or classes that are easier to get them to graduate from high school. I personally don't think ND requiring a certain class/act-sat score is a bad thing. (that is my opinion by the way) It's what makes ND different and it also sets up who is going to be recruited and who isn't.

So to sum it up, I think ND does have higher standards than most schools in D1 NCAA, but not to the point where they arent getting the kids they need to win. Kelly has it right where he is getting the type of kid you need to win on and off the field. I mean if the ball bounces different in usf and michigan last year we go 10-2 with bad QB play for most of the year. ND isn't being held back and the proper adjustments have been made for that to happen. I mean theres a reason Tee Shepard hasn't been picked up by another D1 school believe it or not.

**this post is strictly my opinion. no other people have influenced this post, had a hand in writing this, nor was anyone asked questions while this post was being written

 

[rikkitikki08]

Relax dude. That's a ridiculous post. Where in his post did he say that because he wrote a lot, that it means it was a quality post.

And where do you get off calling people who read his blog 'idiots'? I've never read his blog, but a lot of members of this site read his blog - that makes them idiots?

How about this: Why don't you use your own mind, and try responding to his post with actual dialogue about why 3/4 of it isn't true? It's called debate, and it makes for a better board. But whatever you do, don't do what you did up there. That's just lazy and wrong.

Man, what happened to you?

Amen

 

[rikkitikki08]

Lol, info i have been fed from my blog? Considering I don't blog, I feel that you are making a ridiculous statement. Everything stated in there is 100% my opinion other than the facts that I did include. If you don't agree that is perfectly fine, but don't put words into my mouth or say something I never said. But another part of me is curious on what you don't agree with?


As far as standards, I agree to a point. ND has higher standards academically, socially than every team it plays on its schedule other than a Navy, Army, Air Force. Navy/Air Force have gotten the best of ND a few times in the few years, but overall ND has dominated those series. ND does require their players to actually attend class, do their own work, and go to study tables. A lot of schools don't put an emphasis on that and that does turn some of the top talent around.....but that is more of a reflection on that specific kid on what he wants in life. I have had the opportunity to be able to speak to Manti, Cierre at length to name a few on multiple occasions, and they are are just a different type of kid. They love football and they understand its their ticket to starting their career off right. But they came to ND for what ND gives them after football. Cierre said that ND could be in the middle of the desert and he would still would have came to ND, bc you could be in the Dubai and everyone knows the logo. They get it. They put in the work. ND does have the academic requirements to get into school and the requirement to maintain good grades, while some schools dont. So that is where ND does lose a 5 star kid bc he doesnt want to work. But, how many times does our fanbase pride itself or the staff uses the graduation rate as a selling point to a parent or recruit? There isn't a standard that is so high that kids cant get in or do it once they are here, that is why the graduation rate is so high. ND isn't recruiting kids that have to choose between MIT, Yale and ND. They are still choosing between Florida, usc, Michigan, Fsu, miami, ohio st, etc. It all comes down to what the kid wants, and in todays society an emphasis is placed on athletics over academics. Will that change? I dont know. But ND players are not held to the standards of the average student at ND.

Prime example of this...a recruit this year (most of you can probably guess), but all he needed was to take a foreign language over the summer or the fall to be able to qualify to receive a scholly/get into ND, but he decided he didn't want to. Another example is that some high schools have zero idea of the requirements of colleges that are recruiting students from their school. Kids are put into classes they dont need or classes that are easier to get them to graduate from high school. I personally don't think ND requiring a certain class/act-sat score is a bad thing. (that is my opinion by the way) It's what makes ND different and it also sets up who is going to be recruited and who isn't.

So to sum it up, I think ND does have higher standards than most schools in D1 NCAA, but not to the point where they arent getting the kids they need to win. Kelly has it right where he is getting the type of kid you need to win on and off the field. I mean if the ball bounces different in usf and michigan last year we go 10-2 with bad QB play for most of the year. ND isn't being held back and the proper adjustments have been made for that to happen. I mean theres a reason Tee Shepard hasn't been picked up by another D1 school believe it or not.

**this post is strictly my opinion. no other people have influenced this post, had a hand in writing this, nor was anyone asked questions while this post was being written

No need to get worked up dude....he just believes its his way or no way. I wouldn't take anything he says to heart. He is the debby downer of this board