BK: Field Turf is Coming

[Patulski]

disregard academic excellence as long as we play on a shoddy grass lawn.

strong logic. makes perfect sense. would read again.

Notre Dame already is disregarding its academic excellence for its football program. If we didn't, we'd be Ivy School caliber. This is a short term solution so that there would not be a drop off in another coaching transition.

I get that our stadium's tradition isn't for everybody. So, we'll have to agree to disagree about its importance. I'll give you another example of a tradition that should have remained: When ND built its upper deck, they should have made room for a sight line to Touchdown Jesus.

 

[Chamellion]

Notre Dame already is disregarding its academic excellence for its football program. If we didn't, we'd be Ivy School caliber. This is a short term solution so that there would not be a drop off in another coaching transition.

I get that our stadium's tradition isn't for everybody. So, we'll have to agree to disagree about its importance. I'll give you another example of a tradition that should have remained: When ND built its upper deck, they should have made room for a sight line to Touchdown Jesus.

Nd just got ranked as #12 best college in America by Forbes.

Our academic excellence is increasing

 

[woolybug25]

Notre Dame already is disregarding its academic excellence for its football program. If we didn't, we'd be Ivy School caliber. This is a short term solution so that there would not be a drop off in another coaching transition.

I get that our stadium's tradition isn't for everybody. So, we'll have to agree to disagree about its importance. I'll give you another example of a tradition that should have remained: When ND built its upper deck, they should have made room for a sight line to Touchdown Jesus.

Saying our current football player concessions is anywhere near the level of JUCO acceptance is not being genuine. Our concessions are no where near the rest of college football and accepting JUCO's is light years away from our current concessions.


I agree with you on the sight line to TD Jesus.

 

[KPENN]

What is going on here?

 

[Buster Bluth]

When ND built its upper deck, they should have made room for a sight line to Touchdown Jesus.

B-but, but...then the tradition of having a perfectly bowled stadium would have been RUINED!!

Notre Dame already is disregarding its academic excellence for its football program.

I was always under the impression that Notre Dame wasn't always academically elite. i.e. when Rockne was around it was just a small Catholic school--e.g. Xavier, etc.

You want academic excellence and a good football team? Honest question...are you on drugs right now?

If we didn't, we'd be Ivy School caliber. This is a short term solution so that there would not be a drop off in another coaching transition.

Notre Dame IS Ivy League caliber in the classroom and BCS caliber on the football field. That's what makes Notre Dame so special! You complain about not being as good as they were in prior decades, but then want to be like Harvard/Yale? WHAT??

 

[Buster Bluth]

Instead, I suspect we're going to change our stadium traditions, but like the results of the Gug and the LaBarr facility, the product on the field will remain the same.

Well 1) the product on the field is lightyears ahead of Notre Dame's worst days, and is steadily climbing upward, and 2) the facility upgrades to the LaBarr and Gug have been nothing but GREAT for the program. You're really, really grasping for anything aren't you?

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

Good thing the program caters to the players and coaches instead of crotchety old alumni who are out of touch with everything.

 

[woolybug25]

What is going on here?

magic...

 

[rocket31]

Good thing the program caters to the players and coaches instead of crotchety old alumni who are out of touch with everything.

all we need is just three years of JUCOs man. those JUCOS will solve everything...

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

all we need is just three years of JUCOs man. those JUCOS will solve everything...

I don't see a problem with JUCOs. Or a jumbotron. Or renovating the stadium to include suites and a better sightline towards Touchdown Jesus.

 

[Patulski]

You cant take back what has been done. Once we took JUCO's, we would be in the same realm of the rest of college football. Most JUCO transfers are in JUCO because of poor grades as well. So the university would have to make academic concessions to do what you are implying. Furthermore, it's not like a coach isn't going to want to continue doing it to stay competitive. I would rather have a coach that willing to put the work and time in necessary to build a program back up the right way (ala Harbaugh at Stanford).

Academic excellence and INTEGRITY is far more important to the tradition of Notre Dame football than the effing grass we play on.

Like I said, we're already making academic concessions for the football program. Ask anybody in the Admissions Office. We'd be an Ivy League program if we required the football program to have the same academic excellence as the rest of the university.

It doesn't bother me one bit to take JUCO's for a limited period. I'd simply go on the offensive to the media and say that Notre Dame let its football program slip by deemphasizing football (which is the truth) and that we're going to get it back on track for a three year period with 15 players. With the right coach, I believe it would work.

Hell, we named our Performance Arts building after a convicted felon, but we clamor about our academic INTEGRITY over 15 players? I don't buy it.

Notre Dame is an extremely paradoxical institution. Much of it is the way it markets its image. I believe the only reason they didn't do something like the JUCO idea 10 years ago is because of the endowment. Of course the endowment includes money from convicted felons like DeBartolo, and Hedge Fund managers who were involved in (and profited from) the destabilization of our banking industry and our economy during the housing bubble, but nobody talks about that.

As for Harbaugh: Although he had a good program, he still wasn't top tier, which is Notre Dame's tradition. I expect Stanford to fade back into mediocrity.

 

[Patulski]

all we need is just three years of JUCOs man. those JUCOS will solve everything...

Who would I believe, you or Urban Meyer? I guess he's the crazy one, huh.

Now perhaps Meyer would have failed. I doubt it though.

I would have taken that chance. You wouldn't. We can agree to disagree.

 

[woolybug25]

Like I said, we're already making academic concessions for the football program. Ask anybody in the Admissions Office. We'd be an Ivy League program if we required the football program to have the same academic excellence as the rest of the university.

We aren't making them to the level of JUCO transfer. While there are concessions, are requirements are much higher than the rest of college football. Comparing the two is not being genuine.

It doesn't bother me one bit to take JUCO's for a limited period. I'd simply go on the offensive to the media and say that Notre Dame let its football program slip by deemphasizing football (which is the truth) and that we're going to get it back on track for a three year period with 15 players. With the right coach, I believe it would work.

and what... besides those 15 JUCO's are requirements will stay the same for all of the rest of the recruits? You are being niave if you think any school would make a temporary concession like that.

Hell, we named our Performance Arts building after a convicted felon, but we clamor about our academic INTEGRITY over 15 players? I don't buy it.

Notre Dame is an extremely paradoxical institution. Much of it is the way it markets its image. I believe the only reason they didn't do something like the JUCO idea 10 years ago is because of the endowment. Of course the endowment includes money from convicted felons like DeBartolo, and Hedge Fund managers who were involved in (and profited from) the destabilization of our banking industry and our economy during the housing bubble, but nobody talks about that.

What in the hell does that have to do with anything?

As for Harbaugh: Although he had a good program, he still wasn't top tier, which is Notre Dame's tradition. I expect Stanford to fade back into mediocrity.

I guess going to bowl games and competing for pac-12 championships only a couple seasons removed from a 1 win season isn't top tier. How would them fading back to mediocrity prove anything about Harbaugh? He isn't their coach anymore.

 

[GreatGolson]

If you want to look at it that way, that flys in the face of what you are saying about maintaining tradition. ND's tradition is that they do not take JUCOs. If they allow that, what next? Field turf? Jumbotrons?

THIS

 

[Patulski]

Well 1) the product on the field is lightyears ahead of Notre Dame's worst days, and is steadily climbing upward, and 2) the facility upgrades to the LaBarr and Gug have been nothing but GREAT for the program. You're really, really grasping for anything aren't you?

How in the world can you say that after successive 8-5 seasons, and an average by ND standards 2012 recruiting class, that the program is climbing upwards? Hell, during Weis's first two years we went to two BCS bowls, though we didn't play like we belonged there for the LSU game. We haven't even been within sniffing distance to a BCS bowl with Kelly

Secondly, though the GUG and LaBarr were necessary, we are still far from being a GREAT football program. We're 16-10 in the last two year and 57-43 (57%) since they broke ground on the GUG.

You may not like what I'm saying, but its grounded in fact.

 

[GreatGolson]

Although i feel like it needs to be stated that since the mid 90s NDs academic standards for football players are much higher. Before the academic standards its not as if we were recruiting criminals, we got guys with integrity, just not with the grades of most players today.

 

[GreatGolson]

How in the world can you say that after successive 8-5 seasons, and an average by ND standards 2012 recruiting class, that the program is climbing upwards? Hell, during Weis's first two years we went to two BCS bowls, though we didn't play like we belonged there for the LSU game. We haven't even been within sniffing distance to a BCS bowl with Kelly

Secondly, though the GUG and LaBarr were necessary, we are still far from being a GREAT football program. We're 16-10 in the last two year and 57-43 (57%) since they broke ground on the GUG.

You may not like what I'm saying, but its grounded in fact.

Maybe we should re-hire Weis

 

[DillonHall]

There are plenty of good high school players that are eligible to play at ND. JUCO players aren't necessary to a BCS caliber roster.
Besides, who's to say that a JUCO would even be interested in ND when he could just go to a football factory and work toward the NFL?

 

[Whiskeyjack]

We haven't even been within sniffing distance to a BCS bowl with Kelly

We were 3 TOs away from a BCS berth in 2011.

Secondly, though the GUG and LaBarr were necessary, we are still far from being a GREAT football program. We're 16-10 in the last two year and 57-43 (57%) since they broke ground on the GUG.

You're cherry-picking facts. This team went 15-21 over the three years before Kelly came in. You don't think that's relevant to Kelly's record thus far? Davie inherited a far stronger program from Holtz than Kelly did from Weis.

You may not like what I'm saying, but its grounded in fact.

No, it's just the same brand of "realism" preached by the Luddites over at NDNation. They're correct in one aspect-- if ND isn't willing to be as dirty as the SEC, we may never win another NC. But aside from that, they're dinosaurs; their extreme conservatism towards ND football helped to paralyze the program just as CFB was entering into a sort of arms race. Thank God opinions like yours are finally being recognized for what they are-- reactionary, deluded, and ultimately harmful to the program's progress.

And regarding ND's poor chances of ever winning another NC, as a Double Domer, I'm OK with it. ND stands for a lot more than its football program; I don't want my degree and the institution which has defined my identity more than any other to sell out for glory on the field. Do it the right way, or don't do it all.

 

[TheChosen1]

BK said he "hope's field turf is coming"

 

[STLDomer]

BK just said in the presser: "I hope field turf is coming."

not his decision rather its Swarbricks

 

[Patulski]

and what... besides those 15 JUCO's are requirements will stay the same for all of the rest of the recruits? You are being niave if you think any school would make a temporary concession like that.

I don't know what you're talking about. All the major football programs are making permanent academic concessions every year. If you think I believe ND will do it, and that's the basis for your "naive" comment, I would say no they won't. But I was asked what I would do.

What in the hell does that have to do with anything?

It has to do with integrity. People are freaked by 15 JUCO's, but not by a convicted felon's name on a major facility? I'll tell you the difference: Money. When it comes to money, the "integrity" argument regarding ND gets thrown out the window, because if the money is big enough concessions are made. And that's the biggest difference today. At one time ND needed the football program for money. Today they don't. So, they clamor about academic integrity and a refusal to make concessions on one hand, and ignore it on the other when it comes to fundraising for academic facilities. That's why I called it a a paradoxical institution.

I guess going to bowl games and competing for pac-12 championships only a couple seasons removed from a 1 win season isn't top tier.

Not relative to Notre Dame's history and not compared to the top SEC teams.

How would them fading back to mediocrity prove anything about Harbaugh? He isn't their coach anymore.

I thought Harbaugh did great things for Stanford. My point is that Stanford, who has a weak football tradition (55% all time winning percentage) shouldn't be in this discussion, because I believe they will revert back to their general mediocrity. Our standard benchmark when it comes to football performance is USC.

 

[IndyIrishFan1]

One's a temporary change (3 years) of personnel. The others are long term changes of the stadium. One is necessary to win. The others aren't.

Get the right coach, give him 15 JUCO's and this entire debate will be over.

Instead, I suspect we're going to change our stadium traditions, but like the results of the Gug and the LaBarr facility, the product on the field will remain the same.

Are you the guy that told on me when I was standing up and cheering for our defense on 3rd down?

 

[gkIrish]

I come back from the beach to reading about how accepting JUCOs is somehow less radical than changing what field players play on...

Patulski, you are either the ultimate troll or extremely misguided. I would love to sit down with you face to face as a fellow alumni to try and convince you to change your mind on this general topic because I can tell you are passionate and I think you mean well.

I just don't get your point of view at all. Not one bit

 

[NDinFL]

I come back from the beach to reading about how accepting JUCOs is somehow less radical than changing what field players play on...

Patulski, you are either the ultimate troll or extremely misguided. I would love to sit down with you face to face as a fellow alumni to try and convince you to change your mind on this general topic because I can tell you are passionate and I think you mean well.

I just don't get your point of view at all. Not one bit

Be careful, he has more of a Notre Dame bloodline than anyone on this board

 

[Patulski]

You're cherry-picking facts. This team went 15-21 over the three years before Kelly came in. You don't think that's relevant to Kelly's record thus far? Davie inherited a far stronger program from Holtz than Kelly did from Weis.

So tell me what you think our record is going to be in 2012. That will tell me much more about your belief in this program's progress than this verbal dancing.

No, it's just the same brand of "realism" preached by the Luddites over at NDNation. They're correct in one aspect-- if ND isn't willing to be as dirty as the SEC, we may never win another NC. But aside from that, they're dinosaurs; their extreme conservatism towards ND football helped to paralyze the program just as CFB was entering into a sort of arms race. Thank God opinions like yours are finally being recognized for what they are-- reactionary, deluded, and ultimately harmful to the program's progress.

After being asked what my solution was to the situation, I alluded to Urban Meyer's request for 5 JUCO's for three years to jumpstart the program. If that is reactionary, delusional and ultimately harmful to the program's progress, I'll defer to Meyer's conception of what's needed before heeding anybody else's opinion. I believe if we had done it, we would have been in a far better position than we are today. You don't. Let's agree to disagree.

And regarding ND's poor chances of ever winning another NC, as a Double Domer, I'm OK with it. ND stands for a lot more than its football program; I don't want my degree and the institution which has defined my identity more than any other to sell out for glory on the field. Do it the right way, or don't do it all.

If you are so concerned about the integrity of ND, you should get on the phone with Jenkins' office and ask them why they still have a convicted felon's name on their Performing Arts Center. Have you done that? I did. It's seems to me that concerning integrity, taking money from a convicted felon caught up in a casino bribery scandal-and putting said felons name on a Performing Arts Center- is much worse than having a temporary cessation on the ban on JUCO's for three years and 15 players.

 

[NDinFL]

You're repeatedly bringing up a convicted felon's name...

Yet you still use Urban Meyer as a point of reference?

 

[GreatGolson]

^Have you called Fr. Jenkins about it? Serious question because you seem very concerned about it

 

[Patulski]

I come back from the beach to reading about how accepting JUCOs is somehow less radical than changing what field players play on...

Patulski, you are either the ultimate troll or extremely misguided. I would love to sit down with you face to face as a fellow alumni to try and convince you to change your mind on this general topic because I can tell you are passionate and I think you mean well.

I just don't get your point of view at all. Not one bit

My point of view is that Notre Dame is making long term decisions changing football traditions to improve the program, when short term tradition changing decisions would be better. We disagree. C'est la vie.

 

[woolybug25]

After being asked what my solution was to the situation, I alluded to Urban Meyer's request for 5 JUCO's for three years to jumpstart the program. If that is reactionary, delusional and ultimately harmful to the program's progress, I'll defer to Meyer's conception of what's needed before heeding anybody else's opinion. I believe if we had done it, we would have been in a far better position than we are today. You don't. Let's agree to disagree.

Provide a source that Urban only wanted them for three seasons. I was told that he wanted a certain number of them each year in perpetuity.