'13 NY DE/OLB Ebenezer Ogundeko (Clemson Verbal)

[irishfanjho15]

Back to Ebenezer. If he comes can we officially nickname him "Scrooge" right now??

 

[Bogtrotter07]

The Dickens you say!


Check #274 and #280 Permalink

 

[irishfanjho15]

The Dickens you say!


Check #274 and #280 Permalink

It's official, we're geniuses.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

And Tee "No Classes" Shephard. And Deontay "I'm Going to Houston for the Education" Greenberry. And Ronald "Wanted Out the Moment ND Lost to USC" Darby. And David "I'm Not Going to Try Hard in High School" Perkins. And on and on and on and on and on.....

And there countless other guys who never amounted to anything at Notre Dame (see: certain Weis recruits) because they signed up for "I've won three super bowls and will get you to the NFL!" and not "Come to Notre Dame to work hard in the class room and on the field."

If we knew their nicknames, why did we recruit them?

 

[NYIrish14]

Personally I would rather have Muhammed as our CAT backer for this class. I think he's a better fit for ND as well. Ogundeko will be a Gator IMO.

 

[Irishnuke]

This is just getting f'ing stupid now. Kid makes a statement saying he wants to play in the NFL and wants to be prepared for that and people start questioning his character and say they don't want him at ND. Glad the self-righteous of IE don't make decisions for ND.

 

[yankeeND]

He could just as easily end up at Syracuse. I really think this guy is Enjoying the process and got a lot of attention all at once. He has sky rocketed up the rankings and has been given plenty of choices. I can't blame him for having a little fun with all the fans and media. Still like our chances with him and hope that's how it plays out, an ND stud!

 

[JDAtlanta]

I can't pin point why, but I am not feeling positive about ND's chances. I hope I am wrong.

 

[Kanye West]

Personally I would rather have Muhammed as our CAT backer for this class. I think he's a better fit for ND as well. Ogundeko will be a Gator IMO.

We'll have room for both. I think Muhammed is ours, but there is still ALOT of time in that. Idk about Ogundeko but with Mattingly and Alex James, we'll be ok if we whiff here.

 

[Classic Irish]

@wooly

Classic says "If all he's interested in is the NFL, he should go elsewhere." and that couldn't be more true. Notre Dame is absolutely great at putting kids in the NFL... that's not the point though, the point is kids who come to ND who ONLY want it to be an NFL preparatory place tend not to be good fits and results on the field suffer accordingly. Either that or they decommit the moment we don't win 10+ games.

Bingo---someone who can read! Thanks, Lax, for noting the qualifiers "if" and "all" in my post. I didn't realize that what I wrote was so cryptic that it could be so easily misconstrued. Of course, every recruit aspires to the NFL. But if he's only looking at college as nothing more than a minor league NFL team (and note I'm not saying this is necessarily the case---but if it is), then ND is likely not the place for him.

Is everybody clear now????

 

[IrishLax]

This is just getting f'ing stupid now. Kid makes a statement saying he wants to play in the NFL and wants to be prepared for that and people start questioning his character and say they don't want him at ND. Glad the self-righteous of IE don't make decisions for ND.

Oh come on............

NOBODY is questioning his "character." If he wants to take the approach of being football-first versus academics-first that's his prerogative and plenty of kids do it. That doesn't mean we have to want those types on this team. And it certainly doesn't mean that we should have to want ND to take early commitments from kids who are strictly interested in the NFL.

What if we take Ebenezer and then someone like Alec James we "slow play" in favor of pushing for Muhammed.... then when we don't win 10+ games Ebenezer decommits and we end up missing on everyone? You think that's far fetched? Think again. It's EXACTLY what happened last year at CB. Sure would be nice to have Marcus Rios and Yuri Wright in fall camp, wouldn't it?

I don't like early commitments as a general rule of thumb. But I'm OK with them if the kid says "I want to be at ND because of 'Unique ND Aspect X'" or because it's their dream school and they've been a fan their entire life or because they want to be part of the family of players and are looking XYZ things outside of football. If a kid openly espouses to being most focused on the NFL and what school will prepare him best for the NFL....... are you kidding me? There is absolutely nothing to hold him from jumping ship. Because you can get to the NFL from any school.

It'd be one thing if we were an over-signing football factory where holding a spot wouldn't mean anything. But that's simply not the case. Can't afford to hold spots for people that are only signing up to be at ND because it's their "best option." On principle, I don't like recruiting kids who don't want to be at ND for ND... kids that don't understand what ND is about... but it's a reality of the game that you'll have to take risks on some kids who are elite prospects... not everyone can be a Jaylon Smith or Steve Elmer. I downright think it's a tactical error and mistake to take a commitment from any wishy-washy NFL-first kid before the season is over. Sorry if you feel differently.


DISCLAIMER: This is all a giant hypothetical based on a singular quote from a singular article. If Ogundeko doesn't actually feel that way, then everything above becomes a moot point.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

It's become . . .

It's become . . .

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/CkOfeSNsWpM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Irishnuke]

Maybe character isn't the right word but there is definitely a negative vibe from several members towards this kid and I just don't get it. Everything this guy does is over analyzed and critiqued like crazy. I don't know if people are still butthurt about our DE transfer and the kids from the last class. Whatever it is I hope it doesn't stick with him if he comes here.

 

[woolybug25]

Lax, come on buddy. I didn't hear you talking this jive about Greenberry, Tee or Darby when they were committed. Just sour grapes now.

Guys like Tuck, Clausen, Tate and Rudolph all made mention of Notre Dame getting them to the NFL when they committed. None of these guys took for granted that they had to actually go to school.

Just because a kid makes mention that he wants to play in the NFL does it mean that he isn't serious about doing what he needs to do to succeed at Notre Dame. Believe it or not, most of the 5star talent plan to play in the NFL one day.

I want RKG's as much as the next guy. But we need dudes that think that they will one day play at the next level. If all a kid wants is a first class education from Notre Dame, then he isn't holding up his part of the bargain. We want kids that want to win at a high level and succeed to their maximum potential. I have no problem if a kid believe's that his potential is the NFL.

 

[IrishLax]

Lax, come on buddy. I didn't hear you talking this jive about Greenberry, Tee or Darby when they were committed. Just sour grapes now.

That's the point. We've been burned so many times (can you even count them on 2 hands?) by football-first kids giving early commitments that I think you have to be crazy to want more of it. Also, I've been saying for months.... really from about January of this year onward so technically before the Greenberry and Tee stuff went down.... that I do not like taking early commitments from:

1) Kids who want to take visits "to be sure."
2) Kids who are only focused on football.

I think it is just a bad practice. Would I take one of those kids in January or after? Sure. At that point there is absolutely no reason not to. If he's made up his mind to come here and the coaches want him, then it is what it is.

Guys like Tuck, Clausen, Tate and Rudolph all made mention of Notre Dame getting them to the NFL when they committed. None of these guys took for granted that they had to actually go to school.

Just because a kid makes mention that he wants to play in the NFL does it mean that he isn't serious about doing what he needs to do to succeed at Notre Dame. Believe it or not, most of the 5star talent plan to play in the NFL one day.

This really has nothing to do with what's being discussed. It's about why someone is choosing NOTRE DAME and not College X... and why they're choosing Notre Dame early in the cycle. There is tons of 5/4 talent that also wants to come to Notre Dame for a specific reason/discriminator and I'm fine taking their commitment early. Guys like Bivin, Elmer, Smith, etc. come to mind in this very class. Really just about all of our recruits. Every single college kid wants to play in the NFL... but if you're going to take up a spot with an early commitment you need to be committing to Notre Dame, the school. Not Notre Dame, the football program. Guys like Clausen, etc. were in a very different scenario because they committed to Charlie Weis, the pro offensive guru... it had everything to do with super bowl rings and stat lines. If you want to look at the reasons why the last 3 years of Weis were colossal failures it starts first with Ty Willingham's recruiting and then next goes to the fact that Weis sold kids on the NFL... leading to poor defense/decommits on that side of the ball and a very "soft" offense... and in general a culture of "how soon can I leave?" with very little desire from some players to put in the work to be champions.

I want RKG's as much as the next guy. But we need dudes that think that they will one day play at the next level. If all a kid wants is a first class education from Notre Dame, then he isn't holding up his part of the bargain. We want kids that want to win at a high level and succeed to their maximum potential. I have no problem if a kid believe's that his potential is the NFL.

Again, that's really not the point. The point is you don't use a spot in June on a kid who says "I'm focused on getting to the NFL and that's it"... which is what the quote implies. That kid will have a high risk of decommit and a high risk of transfer. The holes we have at CB right now are exactly because we took commitments from these types of guys. What if we don't take commitments from Darby, etc.? The answer is we probably take 3 CBs last cycle including Yuri Wright and Marcus Rios... and maybe another. Of course we want elite athletes that want to get to the NFL. You think the guys we have signed up right now don't want that? You think Jaylon Smith doesn't want to be a 1st round draft pick? But most of them also seem committed to ND for ND... not just as an NFL minor league... they almost all want something that ND specifically offers that other schools don't. You think Andrew Luck wasn't interested in the NFL? But he also wanted to be an Architectural Engineer. It's not a choice of academics OR NFL. I'm saying as a rule of thumb I'd much rather take zero commitments before the season from guys who want to major in playing football. If there isn't something tying you to the school, then the risk is too high. You and some other people apparently disagree with that.... which is fine. But what I'm saying is hardly blasphemous or attacking someone's "character." I just think it's in the best interest of the football program to recruit kids dedicated to ND and winning and working hard rather than dedicated to their perceived easiest road to the NFL.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Personally I would rather have Muhammed as our CAT backer for this class. I think he's a better fit for ND as well. Ogundeko will be a Gator IMO.

Rather have Randolph, and Muhammed.

 

[NDPhilly]

Sampson thinks he will take official visits anyway even when he commits.

 

[Cackalacky]

But he's not committing until July 20th.....

pedant

 

[rtrn2glory]

is this the type of guy that could bulk into a DE??

 

[NDhoosier]

Sampson thinks he will take official visits anyway even when he commits.

I never like that, isnt that what Ronald Darby did last year? Doesnt mean he will flip, but it does mean he is more likely to flip. I think a rule like Hoke has is a extreme and will backfire, but I still dont like them taking visits. Just my opinion though.

is this the type of guy that could bulk into a DE??

definitely. OLB/DE possibility. maybe similar to Ishaq.

 

[sharksamardzija8345]

to LAX and Wooly.. I mostly agree with you Wooly. I think ND takes a commitment from any elite player we can get one from. If they burn us, that sucks. If we don't get a few "football first" kind of guys on our roster we're going to continue to hover around mediocrity with 8-5 seasons.

in my opinion, we have to roll the dice occasionally and use good judgement on when to roll the dice. Last year, we went after two elite guys with one "being married to ND" and the other being his cousin. If last year's NSD and the week before play out 10 times, they're both in blue and gold 9/10 times, IMO. Just an absolute aberration that they're not here.

ND isn't exactly a terrible place for football first kind of guys either. Yeah the weather kind of sucks sometimes, but when you're in the NFL you don't get to pick to play in Miami then decide you're going to play only the home games and skip the trips to Boston, Buffallo and NY in the winter. Maybe some kids see the weather as a challenge and something they're going to have to get used to. Not to mention the national TV exposure and excellent facilities..

I just don't think ND is ever going to be able to fill a class completely how they want to. We can't say "we have 24 scholarships this year and we're going to fill all 24 with top quality talent". The reason those SEC schools thrive is because they don't put a cap on their commitments. Now I'm not saying we should do the same because I don't think we should, but if we don't, we can't expect to keep up with them if we're going to not take a commitment from an elite guy because he's "football first". So I guess what I'm trying to say is I don't see it as too bad of a thing if a kid wants to come to ND and play football and isn't gushing about the academics and all that other jazz. I don't see anything wrong with getting a few badasses that just want to ball.

Sorry if I'm rambling, seemed like an interesting debate/topic to me.

 

[IrishLax]

to LAX and Wooly.. I mostly agree with you Wooly. I think ND takes a commitment from any elite player we can get one from. If they burn us, that sucks. If we don't get a few "football first" kind of guys on our roster we're going to continue to hover around mediocrity with 8-5 seasons.

1) He's not an elite player; he's a very good player. An elite player is someone like Jaylon Smith or Ronald Darby. Ogundeko is 3 prospect on two services, an unrated low 4 on another, and a top 150 prospect on the last. My whole "thesis" here is that you don't take kids like this early because the risk outweighs the reward. If he's a top 10 positional player I think you can justify the risk, but he's not.
2) Yeah, because Stanford went from 1-11 and losing routinely to San Jose State to multiple BCS games and routinely dominating USC for 4 straight years by recruiting football first guys.......

in my opinion, we have to roll the dice occasionally and use good judgement on when to roll the dice. Last year, we went after two elite guys with one "being married to ND" and the other being his cousin. If last year's NSD and the week before play out 10 times, they're both in blue and gold 9/10 times, IMO. Just an absolute aberration that they're not here.

ND isn't exactly a terrible place for football first kind of guys either. Yeah the weather kind of sucks sometimes, but when you're in the NFL you don't get to pick to play in Miami then decide you're going to play only the home games and skip the trips to Boston, Buffallo and NY in the winter. Maybe some kids see the weather as a challenge and something they're going to have to get used to. Not to mention the national TV exposure and excellent facilities..

I just don't think ND is ever going to be able to fill a class completely how they want to. We can't say "we have 24 scholarships this year and we're going to fill all 24 with top quality talent". The reason those SEC schools thrive is because they don't put a cap on their commitments. Now I'm not saying we should do the same because I don't think we should, but if we don't, we can't expect to keep up with them if we're going to not take a commitment from an elite guy because he's "football first". So I guess what I'm trying to say is I don't see it as too bad of a thing if a kid wants to come to ND and play football and isn't gushing about the academics and all that other jazz. I don't see anything wrong with getting a few badasses that just want to ball.

Sorry if I'm rambling, seemed like an interesting debate/topic to me.

I can appreciate where you're coming from here and I agree with most of it. I think ND is a great place for football-first kids; but I don't think it's a great place to take an early commitment from a far away football-first kid. As you said, it wouldn't really matter if we were an SEC school who wouldn't have to worry about "filling up" or "passing"... but we do. And it continually burns us. Also, I think half the reason people have such a bad reaction to this concept is the term "football-first"... it's like why people chose the terms "pro-life" and "pro-choice"... both are rhetorically hard to oppose. What I mean is if a kid doesn't care at all about anything but getting to the NFL... that is, he has absolutely zero interest anything that isn't minor league football related... it's very dangerous to take commitment that is only binding on our end when there's a solid chance they bolt after an 8-4 season.... which is what most project in 2012.

Anyways, as you said, it's a good debate topic.

 

[sharksamardzija8345]

IRISHLAX.. your 2nd point about Stanford.. I really think the only difference between us and Stanford is they had Luck and Harbaugh and we didn't.. will be interesting to see them in the future

also, *most* kids that want to go to minor league football teams and only care about football probably didn't try hard enough in high school to meet our minimum guidelines as far as SATs, GPA and language/course requirements..

in order to combat our scholly problem, I personally think we should take about 2 or 3 more commitments than we have scholarships for (after coming up with a rough estimate on 5th years).. for example, if we're going to bring back, say, 6 5th years which means we have hypothetically 25 schollies the following year if we bring back the 6, I say we take about 27 or so commitments if we can, wait for NSD and if all 27 come, we lost 2 5th year guys.. I personally see this as the only way we can fill out a class each year the way we want to

it's cool to give guys 5th years or whatever, but we're not a charity.. if we give you 4 years of football and a degree from the University of Notre Dame, I'd say we held up our end of the bargain.. unless, of course, they're a bonafide starter and will start all 12 or 13 games for us, then yeah bring them back.. I don't see the need to bring back a guy who isn't a starter.. what're your thoughts?

 

[JDAtlanta]

I don't want a kid that doesn't have the confidence in himself, to think he couldn't play at the next level. That is one of the dreams every one of these kids have.
Granted, I want them to realize they also need a fall back option and ND is as good as any school.

 

[Irishnuke]

These kids are getting scholarships from Notre Dame to play football. Essentially, Notre Dame is using these kids to put out a good product on the field. Why can't these kids use ND to put them in the NFL? A recruit(any, not specifically Ebenezer) saying he only wants to go to ND so he can be prepared for the NFL is no different than a non-athlete student saying they only want to go to ND for the business program.

 

[IrishLax]

These kids are getting scholarships from Notre Dame to play football. Essentially, Notre Dame is using these kids to put out a good product on the field. Why can't these kids use ND to put them in the NFL? A recruit(any, not specifically Ebenezer) saying he only wants to go to ND so he can be prepared for the NFL is no different than a non-athlete student saying they only want to go to ND for the business program.

I think the other side of the argument is valid, but you're not really getting at the valid part. Of course it is OK to want to go the NFL. Of course it is great decision to use the exposure at ND/early PT/whatever else to get you there. But when the NFL is the only thing you're interested in, there are downsides you're completely glossing over. So let's touch on those now:

First, kids with that attitude tend to pan out less often than kids without that attitude. Why? Because if they don't get immediate PT they often adopt bad attitudes or pull the transfer trigger far too quickly. See: Matt Carufel, Shaq Evans, etc. etc.

Second, kids with that attitude tend to cause more team issues. See: the ridiculously amazing recruiting class Meyer signed at Florida that came in talking about themselves as the Miami Heat which then rubbed everyone else on the team the wrong way and has since led to numerous off the field and on the field issues... and two very poor seasons.

Third, kids with that attitude bolt for the NFL early. Can you imagine if Jimmy and Golden Tate had stayed? And how are they doing in the NFL now? Whereas someone like Barkley could've been a top 3 pick last year and decided to come back and might lead USC to national championship. Or Michael Floyd who decided to come back for another year to get a degree from Notre Dame. Or how Andrew Luck could've been the #1 pick but opted to come back and get an engineering degree. If you can't see why as a general rule of thumb it's better to team-first school-interested guys than me-first NFL-only interested guys then I don't know what college football you watch.

But with all of that being said.... that's not even what we're really discussing. Taking football-first guys is a necessity of being an elite program... but when you're not LSU or Alabama taking an early commitment from a relatively undecided NFL-first guy is quite dangerous. The argument at hand is whether or not you take the commitment. Some think you do and deal with the risk, I think you don't and you keep recruiting all prospects at the position like uncommitted recruits. The truth is if Ebenezer wanted to decide for ND and he could sign that LOI in July it'd really be a non-issue. As much as I don't like having NFL-only kids signed up, if it was binding and the coaches want him... fine by me. But he can't... so then we're stuck holding his spot for 7+ months while people expect him to still want to take officials? You really think that's a good idea? I don't. I sure as hell don't want a commitment from someone like that this early in the cycle. It's far too much risk for too little reward. I'd rather we pass him to Florida and take our chances with other prospects than take his commitment, hope that it sticks, and pass on other prospects.

Just my opinion.

 

[irishfanjho15]

Win 10 or more and this is a moot point. We won't have enough spots to take all the kids that want to get on the ship.

 

[yankeeND]

Win 10 or more and this is a moot point. We won't have enough spots to take all the kids that want to get on the ship.

You ain't kidding, if Kelly can start rolling in double digit winning seasons, ND gets the Darby's, keeps the Lynch's, and reels in the Armsteads! Hell they get their fair share anyway!

 

[IrishLax]

I'll let this subject rest with this quote:

“Mike and I have talked a lot and he has told me what to expect and how Notre Dame will help me succeed, not just in football but in life,” Neal said. “That is what I was always looking for in a college. I know some colleges, it’s all about football. But Notre Dame makes sure you do your class work and you do it well. They teach you priorities.”

If someone only wants to be a ball player, they can do that at literally any college. It's bad practice to take commitments from kids like that early in the cycle because they can and will up and leave as soon as they feel another school offers them a better opportunity. Notre Dame returns to glory by winning recruiting battles for guys like KeiVarae Russel, Wayne Lyons, and Manti Te'o. We don't return to glory by chasing guys like Chris Martin or Omar Hunter... while passing on guys like Mike Martin.

 

[phork]

Don't forget 100% black graduation rates!