What's the right group of recruits for this year?

[STLDomer]

Doubt Sherit can play NG, some say he could play OLB

I think Edwards is a big back also, Muhammad would be another speed back

The LB positions are CAT, DOG, MIKE, WILL, which one do u see Jaylon at?

 

[Domina Nostra]

Doubt Sherit can play NG, some say he could play OLB

I think Edwards is a big back also, Muhammad would be another speed back

The LB positions are CAT, DOG, MIKE, WILL, which one do u see Jaylon at?

I was just grasping for straws with Sherit. We need a DT.

As far as RB I think we take one true RB (Gray, Mahone, ... ) and then a speedster or athlete. I think Edwards could end up at either RB or even LB.

I mixed up SAM and WILL, I'll fix it. I see Jaylon as a WILL or DOG. He may not get to 250, but he'll get to the hole extremely fast and can cover crossing patterns. He might actually be best at DOG, but I see Mattingly as a DOG and not a WILL, so Jaylon to WILL.

I wonder why Moore is not trying out at WILL? It seems likek Carlo is more of a MIKE than a WILL and Moore has a lot of lateral speed.

 

[Old Man Mike]

Because Kendall Moore has great "on paper" qualities, and can occasionally deliver a whack of a blow, it would seem that he is/was destined for starting minutes..... but it is continuing not to happen. I really hope that I'm wrong about this, but this is beginning to look like another "Filer situation" --- worlds of talent which somehow doesn't get it figured out consistently on the field. Again ---- really hope I'm wrong about this.

But if NOT wrong, then that shows the need for a very good LB class this year to go along with Councell, Williams, Grace, Rabasa last year. If Rabasa can adjust to one of the middle LB positions, that is one good talent for each spot after this season and next pass. [It was Rabasa, I think, that made the great pass coverage drop which then Tommy foolishly decided to try to throw over on the first Spring game pick]. This forming recruiting class could then line up alongside them with Smith, Anzalone, Mattingly, and Randolph, or some more "Mike" type of ILB, and constitute a great two-deep.

Because we seem to be heading towards a terrific linebacking class to go along with last year's, and because Diaco is really pushing for corners to join a load of safety talent, it is the constant need for the master-blasters in the D-Line which always fixates me. And despite the standing applause cheers for Isaac Rochell [Thank you Lord, and Isaac!] it is the D-Line where we seem to be in our weakest position this year --- in numbers, not quality of our two verbals who are excellent. I'll be sitting here on the sidelines fixating on the D-Line situation until NSD.

 

[DomeLover3]

I'd like to see us pick up

Anzalone
Cox
LJ Moore
Randolph
Mattingly
Sherit
Hargreaves
Demarcus Robinson
and Ryan Green

We'd be the #1 class for sure. But I just don't think we can get so lucky

 

[yankeeND]

Big Skill DEs: Tuitt Rochell Matuska
Rush DEs: Muhammad Sherit
Balanced DEs: Day Hounshell

TBD: Okwara

NTs: Nix Shwenke Springmann

If we were to get Muhammed I would expect him Sherit Williams Shembo and Okwara all to see time as pass rushers

That'd be quite nice for me

Will Shwenke be back next year? What's his eligibility?

He'll be back, played first two years. The original plan I believe was to red-shirt last year. Due to some injuries was forced to play. I overlook him sometimes but brotha you can tell he has worked his tail off and I believe he will have proven before he leaves that he is an NFL talent! Granted that's my opinion.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I see Jaylon as a WILL or DOG. He may not get to 250, but he'll get to the hole extremely fast and can cover crossing patterns. He might actually be best at DOG, but I see Mattingly as a DOG and not a WILL, so Jaylon to WILL.

I can't see Diaco moving Jaylon inside with his level of athleticism. His ability to both rush the passer and play effectively in space is game-breaking for a 3-4 OLB, and very difficult to find. Pushing him inside would limit those rare and invaluable skills.

I wonder why Moore is not trying out at WILL? It seems likek Carlo is more of a MIKE than a WILL and Moore has a lot of lateral speed.

I would guess it's because Te'o never comes off the field. Those guys have all just been trying to work in around him for years. Since Moore to WILB has never materialized, I assume he's even worse in space than C4 and Foxy.

 

[House16]

Because we seem to be heading towards a terrific linebacking class to go along with last year's, and because Diaco is really pushing for corners to join a load of safety talent, it is the constant need for the master-blasters in the D-Line which always fixates me. And despite the standing applause cheers for Isaac Rochell [Thank you Lord, and Isaac!] it is the D-Line where we seem to be in our weakest position this year --- in numbers, not quality of our two verbals who are excellent. I'll be sitting here on the sidelines fixating on the D-Line situation until NSD.[/QUOTE]

A couple of possibly dumb questions:

Why do people keep saying we need another DT? We already have Nix, Day, and Jones as highly touted prospects at that position, correct? I get confused on whether we're a 4-3 or 3-4, but especially if we're a 3-4, that should be plenty to cover the DT position, right?

A somewhat unrelated question, who are our inside linebackers for the next couple years? It seems like most of our recruits/targets are either DE/OLB hybrids or just OLBs (Smith, Williams, Rabasa, Anzalone, Randolph, Ogundeko, etc.) If we're a 3-4 (which I should probably know, but I'm not sure of) don't we need two ILB guys?

 

[STLDomer]

A couple of possibly dumb questions:

Why do people keep saying we need another DT? We already have Nix, Day, and Jones as highly touted prospects at that position, correct? I get confused on whether we're a 4-3 or 3-4, but especially if we're a 3-4, that should be plenty to cover the DT position, right?

A somewhat unrelated question, who are our inside linebackers for the next couple years? It seems like most of our recruits/targets are either DE/OLB hybrids or just OLBs (Smith, Williams, Rabasa, Anzalone, Randolph, Ogundeko, etc.) If we're a 3-4 (which I should probably know, but I'm not sure of) don't we need two ILB guys?

Right now our DTs our Nix, Shwenke, Springmann. Day and Jones will both start at DE. One could move back in I suppose

ILBs: Moore, Grace, Fox, Te'o, Calabrese, Rabasa
ILB targets: Cox, possibly Anzalone (big fish) Deeb, Ngakou (sp?), Mastrogiovanni (2nd tier)

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Why do people keep saying we need another DT?

True NTs are hard to come by. Nix is the only prototypical one on our roster. After him, Schwenke and Springman are all we've got. Schwenke has been getting good reviews, but he runs out of eligibility after the 2013 season, and Springman is a complete unknown.

We already have Nix, Day, and Jones as highly touted prospects at that position, correct?

Neither Day nor Jones projects as a NT right now. Then again, neither did Schwenke when he was a freshman, so things can change. But none of our incoming freshman DL or DL recruits profile as a true NT. Whether or not we even need such players is up for debate.

I get confused on whether we're a 4-3 or 3-4, but especially if we're a 3-4, that should be plenty to cover the DT position, right?

3-4, and see above about being "covered" at DT. I'm personally not worried about it, because the staff has had no problem finding guys to be immovable objects on the inside thus far.

A somewhat unrelated question, who are our inside linebackers for the next couple years? It seems like most of our recruits/targets are either DE/OLB hybrids or just OLBs (Smith, Williams, Rabasa, Anzalone, Randolph, Ogundeko, etc.) If we're a 3-4 (which I should probably know, but I'm not sure of) don't we need two ILB guys?

Behind the current starters of Te'o and Fox/ Calabrese, there's: (1) Utupo; (2) Moore; (3) Rabasa; and (4) Grace. Assuming we only bring back one of Fox or Calabrese for a 5Y, we'll be at 5/8 for 2013. I expect that we'll take two ILBs in this cycle, and we're solidly in the running for several.

 

[Me2SouthBend]

True NTs are hard to come by. Nix is the only prototypical one on our roster. After him, Schwenke and Springman are all we've got. Schwenke has been getting good reviews, but he runs out of eligibility after the 2013 season, and Springman is a complete unknown.



Neither Day nor Jones projects as a NT right now. Then again, neither did Schwenke when he was a freshman, so things can change. But none of our incoming freshman DL or DL recruits profile as a true NT. Whether or not we even need such players is up for debate.



3-4, and see above about being "covered" at DT. I'm personally not worried about it, because the staff has had no problem finding guys who be immovable objects on the inside thus far.



Behind the current starters of Te'o and Fox/ Calabrese, there's: (1) Utupo; (2) Moore; (3) Rabasa; and (4) Grace. Assuming we only bring back one of Fox or Calabrese for a 5Y, we'll be at 5/8 for 2013. I expect that we'll take two ILBs in this cycle, and we're solidly in the running for several.

Well put, Reps.

 

[House16]

Awesome explanations. Thanks guys.

 

[Old Man Mike]

What I worry about at DT is similar to what Whiskey said but with more worry on my part. Nix is a great one; greater in the scheme of our defense than I believe we give credit for. What if he decides to leave for the NFL early, even like after the 2013 season after which he'll probably have his degree? And Kona will likely be gone then too barring some kind of extra season due to injury [God forbid]. That would leave Springmann. We don't know if Big Tony is really good at DT or not.

Let's say that we don't get any DT this year, like everyone seems so relaxed about. Then post the 2013 season we would have only Tony and whatever Frosh we were bringing in from the 2014 group. Springmann and hoped-for frosh at the D-Line anchor?? I don't like that gamble.

What I believe that Diaco would have to do then is to bring Day into the middle --- which is what I believe they originally had in mind when they accepted Day's verbal and coincidentally made the controversial phonecall to Schutt. At that moment, everyone [including the scouting services] was seeing Day and Schutt as similar DT impact players. The fact that Day is at DE right now is due to Lynch in my opinion. The staff knew that he had to play this year and Lynch's "retirement" made that position thinner THIS SEASON.

The only thing that gives me even a little comfort at DT for the projected future is that move of Day back to the middle after we get a slug of DEs this year. But you NEVER get satisfied at DT... never. It is where it all begins.

 

[STLDomer]

^ Agreed again.

I believe it was said by Diaco or Elston that they wanted to teach Day one position for now. IMO they wanted to sure up DE depth and decided he wouldn't see time at NT this year likely. Jay Hayes (http://www.irishenvy.com/forums/2014-recruiting-profiles/67391-14-ny-ot-sde-jay-hayes-offer.html)is a possible NT recruit for 2014.

Depth if Day was at DT:

DE Tuitt Jones
DT Nix Shwenke Day Springmann
DE KLM Hounshell

In this situation we would be saying we have bad depth at DE and Day should see the field instead of sitting behind 2 guys.


But we are still left with the question who starts at DE opposite in 2013? The blow of Lynch leaving will be felt then more than now.

 

[tadman95]

Couldn't Nix leave after this year if he so chooses? I think he did not play his Freshman year but played his Sophomore year.

 

[IrishSpartan]

Few concerning questions about this recruiting class

1) What type of WR are we trying to secure for our last WR spot. ( boundary or slot) If there is no preference why haven't we offered Larue who early on favorited us and still seems very interested in us.

2) Db is very concerning due to in my own opinion we are only in contention for 1 high rated cb which I think we're not leading for anyway. The question is who else have we offered as a back up plan maybe one of those lower rated high potential kind of kids.

3) what's the deal with rb? We were very close with green but that seems to be evaporating fast and the only other reasonable player were looking at is williams who will be a very hard pull from PSU which I know personally that he favors heavily.

On a side note I'd say with a couple of our extra spots this year we look into those maybe lower rated but super athletic high potential guys that can grow in our system and become valuable (plus it could help in the cb department)

 

[Whiskeyjack]

What I worry about at DT is similar to what Whiskey said but with more worry on my part.

I've given up worrying about our "DT situation" for the same reason I no longer worry about our "OG situation". The staff has had great OL success by recruiting almost exclusively rangy OT types, and then moving guys inside as appropriate. They seem to have the same strategy on the DL of recruiting almost exclusively rangy 3-4 DE types, and then moving guys inside as appropriate.

As I mentioned above, no one expected Schwenke or Springman to end up at NT, but there they are. As you mentioned, Day may end up inside at some point, though with his pass-rushing skills, I wouldn't count on it. I'm guessing the staff probably divides our DL by natural ability; those who have the size, strength, and technique to two-gap for extended periods of time end up at NT, while others who may be better pass-rushers remain at DE.

Who knows? Maybe Hounshell ends up at NT too some day. In any case, the staff doesn't seem to be overly concerned with recruiting prototypical NTs, so I won't be either.

I don't mean to dismiss your depth concerns. Our DL talent is elite, but depth is still far from ideal; though I'd attribute that more to overall DL numbers than a specific DT issue.

 

[STLDomer]

1) I think it's best possible for WR, keep in mind USC and Oregon have not offered LaRue either

2) we are in contention IMO for Moore and Luke, don't know if u consider Moore elite. We have 2 elite CB already IMO, Rashad Kinlaw is perfect for our D and is a elite CB according to 247 ratings and Butler is due for a bump according to Wiltfong I think and has been invited to The Opening and Gridiron Kings. we get either Moore or Luke and I would very pleased with our haul.

3) we wanted Green or Elliott, both perfect fits. Now it seems they have turned to bigger backs that they know they can get IMO in Clement and possibly Edwards.

 

[IrishSpartan]

I thought Elliot locked down his recruitment basically ad now likes osu more now then when he committed

 

[STLDomer]

I thought Elliot locked down his recruitment basically ad now likes osu more now then when he committed

U are correct

 

[IrishSpartan]

What are the odds of us taking a safety this year after last years haul if we do I believe we take the opposite of last years safety small linebacker hybrid and take maybe a pure ball hawking safety or safety corner hybrid but only higher rated I'd imagine due to less of a need

 

[Old Man Mike]

Mixed thoughts: 1). sure Big Lou could leave but it's probably not in his best interest until he gets his degree and three playing seasons to show what he's made of.

2). 2013 season's two-deep will probably be Tuitt/ Nix/ Day; Jones/ Schwenke /Hounshell a VERY good two-deep. Third tier: Okwara [I think he grows into that by then and plays some DE and some CAT]/ Springmann/ Rochell. If Nix and Schwenke are both gone for 2014, then I think Tuitt [hopefully staying since not graduated yet]/ Day/ Jones; Hounshell/ Springmann/ Okwara with Rochell playing a lot too. But no one in sight as third DT.

3). I know that DT Josh Augusta liked his visit here and allegedly has us with three other schools rated "warm" on his preferences list. He would be the missing DT for this class if somehow we got his approval. I'm disappointed that we haven't been able to make any progress with players like Latham, Munger, Pagano et al.


p.s. yes, and I AM becoming more like Whiskey on not sweating it so much. Kelly/Diaco are basically geniuses with their flexibility philosophy. Just at that one position though: I remember seeing several times last year when some team capable of power running came up to a crucial third and short and in came Big Lou, root-hogged the whole middle, and that was the end of that. That stonewall is something special, that flexibility can't manufacture. Oh well, maybe Romeo will grow all the way into a NT... certainly has the power for it.

 

[STLDomer]

I think Sapp said once Augusta was the only possible DT from this class we could get as of the point and time he said it. Pagano is a DE recruit for us btw.

Haven't heard much of Augusta's recruitment though, long way to go.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

What are the odds of us taking a safety this year after last years haul if we do I believe we take the opposite of last years safety small linebacker hybrid and take maybe a pure ball hawking safety or safety corner hybrid but only higher rated I'd imagine due to less of a need

Hard to say. We'll have 8/8 at S for 2013, but given Diaco's fondness for the "Star LB" (S/OLB hybrid) that Slaughter played so well last year, the staff may plan on carrying more than 8 Ss at a time. Or maybe the Star LB thing was a stopgap until some true DOLBs get up to speed, along the lines of Councell and Jaylon Smith.

We probably wouldn't turn down an elite S prospect, but I doubt the staff considers it an area of need.

 

[Irishman77]

No way nix leaves after this year and when he does we reload with Day IMHO...

 

[tadman95]

No way nix leaves after this year and when he does we reload with Day IMHO...

I hope you and OMM are right and I agree he should stay but he's had some tweets that make you wonder....

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I hope you and OMM are right and I agree he should stay but he's had some tweets that make you wonder....

He likes to troll people. I wouldn't read into it too much.

Did you read the comments he made after his most recent controversial tweet?

“Once I go home, they always tell me to stay in school. I’m the one that made it out,” Nix said. “Coming up where I came from, you’re either in or out, and I wanted to be out.

Not saying he's a stone cold lock to stay for his diploma, but I'd be surprised if he left early.

 

[GBdomer]

1) I think it's best possible for WR, keep in mind USC and Oregon have not offered LaRue either

2) we are in contention IMO for Moore and Luke, don't know if u consider Moore elite. We have 2 elite CB already IMO, Rashad Kinlaw is perfect for our D and is a elite CB according to 247 ratings and Butler is due for a bump according to Wiltfong I think and has been invited to The Opening and Gridiron Kings. we get either Moore or Luke and I would very pleased with our haul.

3) we wanted Green or Elliott, both perfect fits. Now it seems they have turned to bigger backs that they know they can get IMO in Clement and possibly Edwards.

I want your film eval on how Butler is "elite" at a 3 star. But LJ Moore isn't? I want to hear this.

 

[GBdomer]

I think Sapp said once Augusta was the only possible DT from this class we could get as of the point and time he said it. Pagano is a DE recruit for us btw.

Haven't heard much of Augusta's recruitment though, long way to go.

Pagano is a DT strictly who's not even considering us.

 

[STLDomer]

I want your film eval on how Butler is "elite" at a 3 star. But LJ Moore isn't? I want to hear this.

I think both are elite. He was referring to elite CB prospects and I said I dont know if u consider Moore elite or not

 

[GBdomer]

I think both are elite. He was referring to elite CB prospects and I said I dont know if u consider Moore elite or not

Still not answering my question. What makes them both elite?