Trump Presidency Round 2

[Irish#1]

 

[Fbolt]

Arguments based on emotion typically fail. Creates an atmosphere where one claims feelings as facts.

 

[NDWarrior]

I have included facts and referenced articles, and yes, of course, the last part is speculation, but I have no qualms about that because this admin has shown its cards and what its objectives are. I'm sorry you guys can't see it, but in the end, we'll eventually all feel the pain from it occurring. I admire your faith in this administration that has demonstrated nothing but self-serving actions.

 

[ColoradoIrish]

I have included facts and referenced articles, and yes, of course, the last part is speculation, but I have qualms about that because this admin has shown its cards and what its objectives are. I'm sorry you guys can't see it, but in the end, we'll eventually all feel the pain from it occurring. I admire your faith in this administration that has demonstrated nothing but self-serving actions.

For a bunch of people who are skeptics of government they sure believe and trust the administration more I would expect.

 

[Fbolt]

I'm skeptical of the govt and have criticized this Admin. Certainly less so than past Admins. But merely making a phone tree connection to some unknown Authoritarian and Militaristic end game is not something I see. We have different views of this situation, that's all.

In this instance, crime in many major cities is terrible.
The crime element has become an accepted part of society by many.
The Admin thinks it shouldn't be accepted and is utilizing their powers to remedy this.
Ideally, residents will see a true reduction in crime and not just see it move to another area.
Residents will then demand better policing from their local city govt.
Local govt hopefully comply.

You see, based on what I've gathered, crime is bad in many cities yet you accept it.
Any attempt by the Feds/Admin to fix it is only based a power grab and is part and parcel to the creation of an Authoritarian regime and Militaristic society thereby denying mid-term elections-or something like that. (I know I'm not exactly correct but maybe generally right?)

If your view happens-and the connections actually exist and I see that happening-believe me, I would be up in arms.

 

[ColoradoIrish]

I'm skeptical of the govt and have criticized this Admin. Certainly less so than past Admins. But merely making a phone tree connection to some unknown Authoritarian and Militaristic end game is not something I see. We have different views of this situation, that's all.

In this instance, crime in many major cities is terrible.
The crime element has become an accepted part of society by many.
The Admin thinks it shouldn't be accepted and is utilizing their powers to remedy this.
Ideally, residents will see a true reduction in crime and not just see it move to another area.
Residents will then demand better policing from their local city govt.
Local govt hopefully comply.

You see, based on what I've gathered, crime is bad in many cities yet you accept it.
Any attempt by the Feds/Admin to fix it is only based a power grab and is part and parcel to the creation of an Authoritarian regime and Militaristic society thereby denying mid-term elections-or something like that. (I know I'm not exactly correct but maybe generally right?)

If your view happens-and the connections actually exist and I see that happening-believe me, I would be up in arms.

When else in our history has an administration sent in the military without the request of local authorities? Or using it as a threat?

 

[NDWarrior]

When else in our history has an administration sent in the military without the request of local authorities? Or using it as a threat?

I do understand some people just can't see it because you don't expect such behavior and narcissism in government (at least not to this level), and I also understand you're just not going to change your opinion until you feel the pain and you finally see that he and the admin have gone too far, although that's likely a no-turning back point where it's too late to stop it. Sad for us all...

 

[NDWarrior]

I do think shit is gonna hit the fan soon as Trump has clearly stated he wants to send in state militias to large blue cities but the mayors of those cities and the governors of their states have clearly stated they don't want him meddling in their cities and states. And I'm sure they're not just sitting back waiting for these events to take place. I hear the governors and mayors are meeting on Zoom regularly and planning contingencies.

 

[Fbolt]

No need for your empathy and my eyes are wide open.

NG deployments have occurred, although rare. We are in a you see an end game and I don't standoff.

If talking about seeing past govt overreach, do you mean like total lockdowns by the past Admin over the Wuhan Virus? No work, no school, no outside, get the shot or else. I remember.

 

[GoIrish41]

When else in our history has an administration sent in the military without the request of local authorities? Or using it as a threat?

The Whiskey Rebellion?

 

[Fbolt]

I do think shit is gonna hit the fan soon as Trump has clearly stated he wants to send in state militias to large blue cities but the mayors of those cities and the governors of their states have clearly stated they don't want him meddling in their cities and states. And I'm sure they're not just sitting back waiting for these events to take place. I hear the governors and mayors are meeting on Zoom regularly and planning contingencies.

Yep-that'll happen.

 

[ColoradoIrish]

No need for your empathy and my eyes are wide open.

NG deployments have occurred, although rare. We are in a you see an end game and I don't standoff.

If talking about seeing past govt overreach, do you mean like total lockdowns by the past Admin over the Wuhan Virus? No work, no school, no outside, get the shot or else. I remember.

Do you not remember that began under trump. And then his administration was responsible for the creation of the vaccine?

 

[ColoradoIrish]

The Whiskey Rebellion?

Great pull!

 

[Bishop2b5]

I do understand some people just can't see it because you don't expect such behavior and narcissism in government (at least not to this level), and I also understand you're just not going to change your opinion until you feel the pain and you finally feel he and the admin have gone too far, although that's likely a no-turning back point where it's too late to stop it. Sad for us all...

You have a strong tendency towards over-the-top tinfoil hat conspiracy stuff, especially when it comes to Trump. Most of us see crime taking over our cities and a huge illegal immigrant invasion that was incentivized by the last admin, but starting to come under control, and the President is using the NG to get some of this under control. Most of us see it in much the same way we see a president sending in the NG during a huge fire or hurricane or flood... a national emergency where some extra help is needed. None of us on the Right want the government to overstep or have a military takeover. We just think you're greatly overreacting because of who it is in the Oval Office right now.

 

[ColoradoIrish]

You have a strong tendency towards over-the-top tinfoil hat conspiracy stuff, especially when it comes to Trump. Most of us see crime taking over our cities and a huge illegal immigrant invasion that was incentivized by the last admin, but starting to come under control, and the President is using the NG to get some of this under control. Most of us see it in much the same way we see a president sending in the NG during a huge fire or hurricane or flood... a national emergency where some extra help is needed. None of us on the Right want the government to overstep or have a military takeover. We just think you're greatly overreacting because of who it is in the Oval Office right now.

Except that they are drastically different scenarios and the president only has very limited power to deploy the national guard except for during war time. And anyone with half a brain that has the ability to be critical of the administration understands were not at war and not being invaded

 

[Bishop2b5]

Except that they are drastically different scenarios and the president only has very limited power to deploy the national guard except for during war time. And anyone with half a brain that has the ability to be critical of the administration understands were not at war and not being invaded

You should do a bit more research. The President can call out the National Guard for more reasons than you seem to think. He appears to be operating within the law.

 

[ColoradoIrish]

You should do a bit more research. The President can call out the National Guard for more reasons than you seem to think. He appears to be operating within the law.

You should do more research. Him signing an executive order doesn't make it legal. It's like Michael Scott declaring bankruptcy. And as I've already stated Washington DC is an extreme one off situation with it being a federal city. It's why there's more gray area currently

 

[NDWarrior]

No need for your empathy and my eyes are wide open.

NG deployments have occurred, although rare. We are in a you see an end game and I don't standoff.

If talking about seeing past govt overreach, do you mean like total lockdowns by the past Admin over the Wuhan Virus? No work, no school, no outside, get the shot or else. I remember.

Fair point, and I'm actually on the side of that issue that it was unfair and the vaccines were unproven to be safe for sure. I do believe the admin did the best they could with what little they knew about the virus and initially it was killing a lot of people. I do think the admin and health oversight should have let more natural approaches get a fair shake to be tested as there were/are a lot of great things that a doctor can do for those infected by COVID, especially if done in the first few days.

However, I would point out, that I think in the back of our minds, we knew stand in place measures and the pandemic were temporary in nature and that we would get through it; but what's going on now is very well to lead to a destruction of our democracy and government, a thing that is not temporary, and could take many years if not decades to undo. Degree and depth of damage is completely different and much greater.

 

[ColoradoIrish]

Fair point, and I'm actually on the side of that issue that it was unfair and the vaccines were unproven to be safe for sure. I do believe the admin did the best they could with what little they knew about the virus and initially it was killing a lot of people. I do think the admin and health oversight should have let more natural approaches get a fair shake to be tested as there were/are a lot of great things that a doctor can do for those infected by COVID, especially if done in the first few days.

However, I would point out, that I think in the back of our minds, we knew stand in place measures and the pandemic were temporary in nature and that we would get through it; but what's going on now is very well to lead to a destruction of our democracy and government, a thing that is not temporary, and could take many years if not decades to undo. Degree and depth of damage is completely different and much greater.

I would almost make the argument that the people's willingness to lockdown and give up freedoms to the government during the pandemic is a direct cause of the current climate. The masses have proven that they're willing to sacrifice freedoms if it meant the betterment of others. We're just seeing the pendulum swinging with people are willing to sacrifice currently.

 

[NDWarrior]

You have a strong tendency towards over-the-top tinfoil hat conspiracy stuff, especially when it comes to Trump. Most of us see crime taking over our cities and a huge illegal immigrant invasion that was incentivized by the last admin, but starting to come under control, and the President is using the NG to get some of this under control. Most of us see it in much the same way we see a president sending in the NG during a huge fire or hurricane or flood... a national emergency where some extra help is needed. None of us on the Right want the government to overstep or have a military takeover. We just think you're greatly overreacting because of who it is in the Oval Office right now.

Your opinion, but noted.

First of all... Most of us see crime taking over our cities and a huge illegal immigrant invasion that was incentivized by the last admin.
Dude, most of you guys don't seem to live in these cities and that's fine and your choice, but Trump and you Maga loyalists seem to think their our cities and our problems but then you're going off and making unilateral decisions that YOU think the best way to make MAGA is to send in f---ing national guard to crackdown on criminals and illegal immigration (supposedly hard core criminals who seem to be delivering burritos and picking blueberries - whoa!).

Residents of cities like LA, Chicago, Baltimore, and DC understand the tradeoffs they make living there and let's face it, there is a much larger mix of ethnicities and volume of residents living in close proximity in these cities so of course there's going to be crime. And no one prefers crime and wouldn't welcome the idea of lowering crime and murders of course, but they see many ways to do this, the least of which is bringing in the NG who are carrying guns, beating up people, and detaining/deporting longtime illegal residents, legal residents, and even US citizens.

How about instead of cutting off programs that helped the poor and lower-income groups in these cities and simply scaring them out of committing crimes (not bad necessarily) where what are needed are jobs and opportunities that are more attractive than a life of crime and programs to support the development of these things.

Instead, the BBB cut a lot of these programs and instead of spending all of the huge amounts of ICE budget $s in the BBB all on prisons to make gobs of $ for CoreCivic and Geo Group and ramping up a masked and armed ICE (yeah, that builds trust in the community), maybe some of that can go towards hiring more police officers on the street (e.g., I read that DC is having a hard time hiring enough officers, but maybe if they applied signing bonuses and bounties for positive effect (e.g., $1,500 per former gang member that cleans up, turns in his gun, and gets a proper job, that an officer takes credit for reforming - I know it's a little pie in the sky but you get the idea), the could successfully hire a lot more officers.

As far as DC, the late March EO that was signed even mentions how the Federal govt can work with DC MPD to help them expedite gun permits and achieve accelerated hiring of MPD officers. Putting more MPD officers on the ground (even if that means paying more $ for the role) is a much better use of the $.

And Trump is not even trying to work with these cities. I'm sure you could get blue city mayors to work with Trump on immigration if ICE efforts were truly focused on deporting actual immigrant criminals.

Lastly, if Trump and admin are really concerned with cleaning up crime, then why not send federalized NG into the top 10 cities for crime such as Memphis, St. Louis, Little Rock, Kansas City, New Orleans, Birmingham, and Houston. Oh yeah, that's right, they're red cities in red states. Imagine that?!

Sorry, but you don't really care about these cities (you would never live there and that's you choice) and you and the admin have no right to force your vision of a "safer" city on these residents and mayors, especially when the efforts are really being expanded to crackdown on blue voters and removing hard-working immigrants (and in many cases, legal residents) so as to optimize redistricting and to extinguish the color out of the U.S. on their way to making a White Nationalist govt and society.

It's all a ruse and you know it.

 

[NDWarrior]

And re:

None of us on the Right want the government to overstep or have a military takeover. We just think you're greatly overreacting because of who it is in the Oval Office right now

You don't really care if it goes that route as long as you think it will benefit your party and your shared Maga vision. But as I said you will one day feel that pain, because you don't just dismantle a huge federalized NG and ICE force when all the color and city crime is excised out of the country. An authoritarian govt. will keep that in place to keep power and crackdown on any dissension.

I'm sure at some point, the admin will come out with some law or EO that you will not like, maybe around CBDC and controlling your bank accounts and getting off the US Dollar standard; maybe that your daughters and sisters can no longer vote; or maybe that your personalized health is monitored and you are punished for any ailments showing up in your profile as they feel you are not doing what you can to stay healthy.

You will not have the ability to have your voice heard or to dissent or to effect changes via the right to vote in a fair and valid election.

Good luck with your future Maga utopia... I still firmly believe that the liberal pluralistic democracy (again, warts and all) we've successfully had in place for the past 80 years is the much better and proven form of government and society.

 

[ColoradoIrish]

And so it begins



At least he looks like #1 and not like me 😂

 

[Irish#1]

People worked up because Trump uses the NG to temporarily supplement LE. It's a crisis because it's a military takeover, even though most of the NG aren't carrying weapons. DC goes 12 days without a murder. Hmmm

 

[Irish#1]

And so it begins



At least he looks like #1 and not like me 😂

Pretty hypocritical to burn the symbolism that allows you to protest. Have some respect.

 

[ColoradoIrish]

Pretty hypocritical to burn the symbolism that allows you to protest. Have some respect.

I don't disagree that it's disrespectful, doesn't mean someone should be arrested and facing a year in jail. The whole free speech thing and all.

 

[NDVirginia19]

I don't disagree that it's disrespectful, doesn't mean someone should be arrested and facing a year in jail. The whole free speech thing and all.

I mean Arson laws do exist. You can't just start fires in public places without prior approval and say that free speech protects you. Just like you can't burn an LGBTQ flag outside of a restaurant that has one hanging

 

[Bishop2b5]

I don't disagree that it's disrespectful, doesn't mean someone should be arrested and facing a year in jail. The whole free speech thing and all.

Instead of arrest and prosecution for a crime, I'd make it an automatic expulsion from the country with no return for at least 5 years. You don't want to be here, fine. We'll see you out.

 

[ColoradoIrish]

The free speech brigade is really justifying this executive order? Color me surprised.

 

[ColoradoIrish]

I mean Arson laws do exist. You can't just start fires in public places without prior approval and say that free speech protects you. Just like you can't burn an LGBTQ flag outside of a restaurant that has one hanging

I think we both understand there's a difference between those scenarios

 

[ColoradoIrish]

Instead of arrest and prosecution for a crime, I'd make it an automatic expulsion from the country with no return for at least 5 years. You don't want to be here, fine. We'll see you out.

Can we report those that fly the confederate flag then as well? They're clearly are traitors to union and hate our country.