Trump Presidency Round 2

Sea Turtle

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calvegas04 said:
I mean he was really only there to sign mineral rights over and trump and vance fucked that up. It wasn't a peace treaty about to sign, this meeting was in favor of the US.
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I know. And again, I don't like it. I don't like some of the things Trump has been saying about Urraine and Zelensky.

But you don't argue with him in the oval office with the whole world watching. Thats just stupid. Argue respectfully behind closed doors.
 
Giddyup

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Love the guys combat pajamas like he’s ever been near a front line while playing a piano with his wee wee
 
Giddyup

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Lol. Wow Zelensky was leading the troops!! He could have got shot while taking that selfy
 
BuaConstrictor

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NDVirginia19 said:
is taking a stark departure from the strategy the last administration did
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Supporting Russia? Yeah. Pretty stark.

The context isn't important because Vance's question doesn't provide context.

He tries to lay the blame for the lack of peace in Ukraine at the feet of Joe Biden, when it's the fault of Putin.

Even if he wants to take the drive-by at Biden, at no point in that meeting was Putin held to account at all for any of his actions by Trump or Vance. Zelensky tried to and was "shouted down". If you're so big on "context" that seems like a pretty important part of it.

Hell, if you're going to defend Vance's "context" (lol), then Zelensky's context about why diplomacy with Putin is a no win situation is as important..if not more! Putin has repeatedly reneged on ceasefires, prisoner deals, non-aggression agreements, etc.

Continue tap dancing for Russia though.
 
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BuaConstrictor said:
Supporting Russia? Yeah. Pretty stark.

The context isn't important because Vance's question doesn't provide context.

He tries to lay the blame for the lack of peace in Ukraine at the feet of Joe Biden, when it's the fault of Putin.

Even if he wants to take the drive-by at Biden, at no point in that meeting was Putin held to account at all for any of his actions by Trump or Vance. Zelensky tried to and was "shouted down". If you're so big on "context" that seems like a pretty important part of it.

Hell, if you're going to defend Vance's "context" (lol), then Zelensky's context about why diplomacy with Putin is a no win situation is as important..if not more! Putin has repeatedly reneged on ceasefires, prisoner deals, non-aggression agreements, etc.

Continue tap dancing for Russia though.
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If anything Z was trying to make it apolitical. He went back to 2014 while Obama was president as an explanation as to why peace discussions don’t work with Russia. Doesn’t matter who the US President is.

Trump and Vance went in with the intention of coming out with some excuse for cutting all support. State Department and DoD are already making moves. Pathetic.
 
IrishLax

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TorontoGold said:
I’m sorry Lax, but that summary is incredibly ridiculous. Zelenskyy said Putin broke the ceasefire and then everything went to shit. Yelling at him to say thank you in the middle of a meeting lol. Using the “I’ve seen videos bruh”. I can only imagine what the Ukraine team was thinking when they reviewed the press list and saw someone from TASS on it.
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That's literally what the summary says:
The Zelensky/Trump dynamic was calm and stable. It was when Vance spoke that Zelensky started to interrogate him.
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Zelensky has two options -- fact check or go with the flow. He chooses the former and doesn't back down from that. It's going to earn him a lot of points in Europe at expense of the relationship with Americans. He decided that showing backbone was the correct play (unless you think he is an emotional and incompetent leader, which I think would be a poor assessment). He also went at Vance not Trump for obvious reasons.
 
NDVirginia19

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You all should really watch the full conference. The entire conference things were cordial discussing the deal and the need to stop the fire. Trump discussed how French and British troops would be in Ukraine to support the peace. Zelenskyy was the one at the end who tried to renegotiate the deal in public.
 
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NDVirginia19 said:
You all should really watch the full conference. The entire conference things were cordial discussing the deal and the need to stop the fire. Trump discussed how French and British troops would be in Ukraine to support the peace. Zelenskyy was the one at the end who tried to renegotiate the deal in public.
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This was a mineral rights deal not a peace treaty. The US refused to even include safety guarantees.
 
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NDVirginia19 said:
This in and of itself was the mineral rights deal that would then lead to a cease fire negotiation then security guarantees.
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Maybe. Zelensky's point is that without security guarantees ahead of time the peace treaty isn't worth the paper it's printed on. Apparently pointing out when it failed during the Obama admin was enough to set off tweedle dee and tweedle dumb.

If the US isn't willing to include them in a negotiation that they have a vested interest in, why would they later?
 
NDVirginia19

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GATTACA! said:
Maybe. Zelensky's point is that without security guarantees ahead of time the peace treaty isn't worth the paper it's printed on. Apparently pointing out when it failed during the Obama admin was enough to set off tweedle dee and tweedle dumb.

If the US isn't willing to include them in a negotiation that they have a vested interest in, why would they later?
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Trump isn’t even talking about a full on peace treaty though, he is talking about a cease fire to continue working towards a deal. It would be one thing if Ukraine was on some grand offensive, but they aren’t. I think what set them off is that he tried to take what should have explicitly been a private negotiation about the cease fire and erode the president’s decision space and negotiation space with Russia by taking it public. I agree with you that Ukraine shouldn’t be left out of the decision making at all, but Putin seems to be against a cease fire if it means outside forces being brought in and Zelenskyy is against a cease fire if they aren’t. The mineral deal with Ukraine gives the US at least some vested incentive in maximizing the territorial integrity of Ukraine when it comes to mediating with Putin and Zelenskyy for further talks post cease fire.
 
Irish#1

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If you want to be honest neither side came away looking better than the other.
 
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